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What makes a good daughter-in-law

What do you think?

  • It is too outdated times have changed

    Votes: 14 58.3%
  • She's right, that's how it should be

    Votes: 4 16.7%
  • I think to some extent it makes sense

    Votes: 6 25.0%

  • Total voters
    24
You are completely disconnected from REALITY! Seriously!

@Hell hound ... give some lesson to your team mate please on living expenses in Pakistan! She thinks they are 'very low' o_O

If it works for you and others by all means go for it.
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For some of us it doesn't. That's our opinion.
 
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If it works for you and others by all means go for it.View attachment 405940

For some of us it doesn't. That's our opinion.

Now you are detracting ...

Stick to the $8 per month income per person to save for a house by 65 ... as this is exactly what you claimed!

You are challenged .... prove us all wrong!

Madam, it is all well and good to pluck grossly false assumptions out of thin air to make your case. You have absolutely no idea how a household of 4 (2 adults and 2 kids) earning double the average income (PKR36k per month) survive! Absolutely clueless you are!

A mud house made over the years may be possible for $8 a month earner ... by collecting mud and constructing over the 40 years! And that doesn't include the land cost so it will have to be donated.
 
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Now you are detracting ...

Stick to the $8 per month income per person to save for a house by 65 ... as this is exactly what you claimed!

You are challenged .... prove us all wrong!

Madam, it is all well and good to pluck grossly false assumptions out of thin air to make your case. You have absolutely no idea how a household of 4 (2 adults and 2 kids) earning double the average income (PKR36k per month) survive! Absolutely clueless you are!

A mud house made over the years is possible ... by collecting mud and constructing over the 40 years! And that doesn't include the land cost!

If you're educated you get a job or move to city. Mud house? What on earth.

Here is a table showing the annual figure of an unskilled workforce in Pakistan based on region and monthly income. Looking at this if is quite clear to see that it's not the impossible and most definitely doesn't hit a pensioners age.

Mind you why are you even limiting this to Pakistan? I'm talking on a global scale but only answered a question in relation to Pakistan where costs are quite low and for someone who lives abroad when you go back you'd know the clear difference so stop being hypocritical or denying it.

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Bottom line: She's allowed to have her own place if requested.
 
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If you did Charity work in Pakistan, you would have some idea .... but you don't.

Cost of labour & parts for just ONE water pump (hand pump) is PKR20K = $200!!!

A labourer earns PKR200 ($2) per day, or PKR6000 ($60) per month if he works without any break for 30 days. Now tell me how he will feed his family of 4 (inc himself) and get a water pump fitted let alone build a house???

where costs are quite low

Again, you live in some La La Land.

Please stop as you are making yourself look like a real fool with this argument on economics.

60% of population is below poverty line! Do you even know what the poverty line is?
 
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If you did Charity work in Pakistan, you would have some idea .... but you don't.

Cost of labour & parts for just ONE water pump (hand pump) is PKR20K = $200!!!

A labourer earns PKR200 ($2) per day, or PKR6000 ($60) per month if he works without any break for 30 days. Now tell me how he will feed his family of 4 (inc himself) and get a water pump fitted let alone build a house???



Again, you live in some La La Land.

Please stop as you are making yourself look like a real fool with this argument on economics.

60% of population is below poverty line! Do you even know what the poverty line is?

The estimated minimum level of income needed to secure the necessities of life.

I'm not saying the earnings are sky high but for those who CAN afford to get their wives a separate house can do so and I'm not disregarding poor people's financial situation here so hence there's exception.

FYI: I did Economics as Unit study so shut your assuming mouth.

I hold the opinion females are entitled to it GLOBALLY and Pakistani culture (for those who live comfortable lives) are dropping this practice.

My opinion remains the same and unchanged. I'm not interested in proving or moulding anyone's views, I'm stating my views on the matter and it is what it is.

Ciao.
 
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Since you love bringing random scenarios which hold no reality or basis on the ground to explain the situation so did my figure - though it made more sense.

Average Monthly Salary in Pakistan is 18,171 PKR (according to salary checker). Expenses in Pakistan are very low, household/flats can be available by carrying out research around work of residence. Many people move away to bigger cities once they've secured a job and paid a better income in addition to whatever perks are made available by the Company.

Pakistan's Annual Household Income per Capita reached 649.97 USD in Jun 2016, compared with the previous value of 568.75 USD in Jun 2014. Pakistan's Annual Household Income per Capita data is updated yearly, available from Jun 2005 to Jun 2016, with an averaged value of 478.86 USD. The data reached an all-time high of 649.97 USD in Jun 2016 and a record low of 291.20 USD in Jun 2005. CEIC calculates Annual Household Income per Capita from annual Monthly Average Household Income multiplied by 12 and annual Average Household Size and converts it into USD. The Pakistan Bureau of Statistics provides Average Household Income in local currency and Average Household Size. The State Bank of Pakistan average market exchange rate is used for currency conversions. Household Income per Capita is in annual frequency, ending in June of each year.

Pakistan's income is based on their economy and its economical factors.

This concludes the possibility of having your own place GRADUALLY and not before you hit a pensioners age is very likely and possible.

No high incorporate tax, no road tax, no income tax, no MOT, no TV licence, no high amounts bills (water/gas/electricity). Yet despite all that it is clear to see this is a cultural factor also admitted the very Pakistani Men on this forum and very little to do with costs. Yes they play somewhat role but not a permanence.

I will leave it as I still standby Females being entitled to their own residence with their spouse, this does not mean any relation with in laws is diminished. Which you and your little friend here seem to assume, moreso they can still visit/stay over including grandchildren can go for sleepovers etc.

Therefore I conclude this as Yes. Females are entitled to their places and should if requested, in hand with they should also be vary and understanding of the situation if it is not available with immediate effect, but will be eventually fulfilled within a realistic and reasonable time frame.

Have a nice day.
Just the big fat points/ discripencies I noticed in your reply.

  • The claim that I was talking about random scenarios which hold no reality on the ground. Do explain, how the per capita income, the population under the poverty line of 1$ and 2$ statistics from PBS and UN data hold no reality on the ground? I'd love to hear this argument of yours ... LOL!

  • As far as average monthly salary, please produce the link from which you gathered this data. Secondly, even if I take your claim of average salary at 18K, your own previous scenario gave you a rental cost alone of 25K, thats a 7K deficit, and we're not even talking household expenses, utilities etc etc.

  • Coming to your data of household income per capita data, you should know that the data you've presented is an annual estimation (i.e. the very reason why you find yearly graphs at ceicdata.com) You convert that to monthly it goes to $54. Based on the exchange rate today, it comes out to be a mere Rs. 5,661 per month, which btw is 20K deficit when we talk the previous scenario you chalked up, and is a similar estimation to the one I gave based on the 2$ standard which actually came out to be more at Rs. 6000 per month.
I say this quite sincerely, you seriously don't have an idea what your talking about and are just winging it at this point. The arguments and statistics that your bringing to the table, actually support the case made by me, more than they do the case made by you. So either revise your statistics, backed up by reputable sources or revise your narrative, because it seriously seems like a bunch of non-sense. Heck, let's see you fit a rental based on the figures you yourself chalked up in this reply i.e. 5K per month, in fact I'll cut you some slack, fit one in 18K per month.

FYI: I did Economics as Unit study so shut your assuming mouth.
You had one brilliant teacher :D
 
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Just the big fat points/ discripencies I noticed in your reply.

  • The fact that I was talking about random scenarios which hold no reality on the ground. Do explain, how the per capita income, the population under the poverty line of 1$ and 2$ statistics from PBS and UN data hold no reality on the ground? I'd love to hear this argument of yours ... LOL!

  • As far as average monthly salary, please produce the link from which you gathered this data. Secondly, even if I take your claim of average salary at 18K, your own previous scenario gave you a rental cost alone of 25K, thats a 7K deficit, and we're not even talking household expenses, utilities etc etc.

  • Coming to your data of household income per capita data, you should know that the data you've presented is an annual estimation (i.e. the very reason why you find yearly graphs at ceicdata.com) You convert that to monthly it goes to $54. Based on the exchange rate today, it comes out to be a mere Rs. 5,661 per month, which btw is 20K deficit when we talk the previous scenario you chalked up, and is a similar estimation to the one I gave based on the 2$ standard which actually came out to be more at Rs. 6000 per month.
I say this quite sincerely, you seriously don't have an idea what your talking about and are just winging it at this point. The arguments and statistics that your bringing to the table, actually support the case made by me, more than they do the case made by you. So either revise your statistics, backed up by reputable sources or revise your narrative, because it seriously seems like a bunch of non-sense. Heck, let's see you fit a rental based on the figures you yourself chalked up in this reply i.e. 5K per month, in fact I'll cut you some slack, fit one in 18K per month.


You had one brilliant teacher :D

You're talking about Pakistan, Pakistan in general has more savings than Western Countries and you are specifically including people from poor backgrounds. It's clear that I've not been rigid in opinion whereby I'm suggesting they should also be obliged to meet needs. I'm talking of those who are ABLE and comfortable but refuse to do so because to them 'joint family system' is the way and that is unreasonable if their partner is of a different view.

In the end if you can afford it and your partner wants it do so.

If you can't afford it you can't.

It's that simple.

But ultimately I'm still in favour of having separate housing and I have to reiterate this for those who CAN.

You don't fair enough that is your opinion.

It's that simple.
 
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Times have changed, be respectful and do your bit but ultimately in laws need to give couples their space and they're adult enough to carry out their own decisions.
Totally agree, it has been long since we treated them as second class citizens.
 
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You're talking about Pakistan, Pakistan in general has more savings than Western Countries and you are specifically including people from poor backgrounds. It's clear that I've not been rigid in opinion whereby I'm suggesting they should also be obliged to meet needs. I'm talking of those who are ABLE and comfortable but refuse to do so because to them 'joint family system' is the way and that is unreasonable if their partner is of a different view.

In the end if you can afford it and your partner wants it do so.

If you can't afford it you can't.

It's that simple.

But ultimately I'm still in favour of having separate housing and I have to reiterate this for those who CAN.

You don't fair enough that is your opinion.

It's that simple.

-What no reply on the points I raised on your "financial analysis" ... ?

-I'm specifically including poor people? Literally 60% i.e. 6 out of 10 people as per Pakistan bureau of statistics data (2008) live under $2 a day, i.e. less than Rs. 6000 a month. Your literally advocating that we talk about the minority because you don't have a solution to the problems of the majority. Like @Verve said, you seem to be living in Lala land. The reality is way different and way grimmer.

-Lastly, even if we assume that there is literally no such thing as "labor exploitation" and ASSUME that every man is getting 14K a month, thats still 9K short of the rental, you yourself proposed in your previous response ... Plus, let's not forget the cost of the essentials, food, water, utilities, transportation ....
 
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@abdulbarijan @Divergent1

Why don't you guys pick on more educational issues like dowry and the issue of mehar along with other social evils women face in a male dominated society and a patriarchal system

This joint vs separated family issue is a futile attempt and helps none here.
 
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-What no reply on the points I raised on your "financial analysis" ... ?

-I'm specifically including poor people? Literally 60% i.e. 6 out of 10 people as per Pakistan bureau of statistics data (2008) lives under $2 a day, i.e. less than Rs. 6000 a month. Your literally advocating that we talk about the minority because you don't have a solution to the problems of the majority. Like @Verve said, you seem to be living in Lala land. The reality is way different and way grimmer.

-Lastly, even if we assume that there is literally no such thing as "labor exploitation" and ASSUME that every man is getting 14K a month, thats still 9K short of the rental, you yourself proposed in your previous response ... Plus, let's not forget the cost of the essentials, food, water, utilities, transportation ....

You obviously missed what I said - if they are able, would you like me to give you the definition for that? I've been emphasising this from the very first point. Also the reality is according to some articles, Pakistan is making a slow shift from 'joint family' system:

https://www.dawn.com/news/859933

http://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/20078/are-the-days-of-joint-families-over/

Totally agree, it has been long since we treated them as second class citizens.

Thank you. Someone with common sense.
 
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Don't worry ... I can surely explain it to you...

The part of my post addressed to you, was pointing out the lack of self awareness of an individual i.e. you, who just a few posts ago was calling me sexist, yet continued on about the wife's rights based on religious arguments, without knowing the fact, that the buzz word you hurled around just a few posts ago, is primarily used by the same egalitarian movements who hold the view that the basis of sexism is rooted in gender roles and religious arguments. Clear enough now?

BTW, in my humble opinion, overthinking is alot better than being a trigger happy champion buzz word user ... without knowing the complete concepts behind them.

@Verve you alright there bro, haven't heard from you since the .... 'incident' ... khair khariat hai ? :P

Man i am going to get embroiled in circular arguments and i do not want to. i am already very tired and sleepy. I honestly still did not pick up your point despite going through it multiple times.

I think you are trying to say that i am in favor of a seperate house using religion as an excuse.
And you said i called ypu sexist ,which is a term that is a product of egalitarian societies who think sexism is due to gender roles and religious arguments.

Firstly, i did not "hurl" the term at you at all.
I have been an off and on reader here and there were many many ocassions i saw you going hyper in women rights threads and each time you seemed to produce an argument which was never related to whatever those discussions were. For instance i recall once you dragged a whole discussion about a womens only market to several pages, then few days back you were arguing with ,i think divergent, when she and others supported a woman for killing her husband who had been allegedly raping his daughter in law, tho divergent and others had clarified they had commented taking the news on its face value , but still you were unhappy.
there would be so many other such discussions where i would have spotted you doing this. That led me to call you sexist .

So sexism comment was not a trigger happy or "hurling at anyone" response, it was due to having read so many of your similar posts in various discussions.

As of word sexism frankly speaking i have never known the roots of it nor do other people who use it. If i open my dictionary it just states sexism is discrimination, prejudice against women due to their gender. Thats all i read , there is zero mention of religion in it and in general parlance that is how it is used.

Lemme clarify one more thing whenever i give some arguments i usually never say anything that is disliked by our faith.
At the same time i do not use religion as an argument (except few ocassions) but rather check does my religion allow me that? If it does then without mentioning faith i present whatever logical arguments i have in favor of or against a thing. What i feel is islam offers a lot of flexibility and ease , and many things are not defined straightup in shades of black and white because Allah knows our shortcomings and inabilities in performing them , had they been an outright Yes or No, many things are left in grey areas so that we deal with them according to need of hour.

So as i knew many argumnets that iwas putting forth were not disliked in islam , i did not present them using islam allows this allows that. I just stated why so and so thing should be done , could be done and could be avoided.

So if take out islam from the equation as you think sexism and taking care of ones wife on the basis of religion are conflicting ideas, then lets put sexism and wifes rights against each other. With islam out of picture would someone again be able to deny his wife a seperate home ? A peaceful environment to his family?

Buddy you know what you are not sexist , you are more of a "men are victims mentaliy". If someone tells her face is as bright as moon, you would say , No man on earth has ever been complimented like that yet women easily walk away with such praises. We men slog hard all day , put our sweat and blood into work yet noone compares us with moons brightness, not even in the slightest.

Phew! Dimagh ka kachoomar salad bana diya.

Lastly, i would again say overthinking where we start misinterpreting and misunderstanding others is detrimental. Even otherwise it is a waste of mental energy.

@Divergent1 btw i have to agree living costs are quite high in pakistan. Offlately the prices of basic commodities , like vegetables, onions, garlic ginger all have sky rocketed. Thanks to the elected government people are not getting as much pay raises as much as the costs are on upswing.
 
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In the end if you can fine, if you can't then don't go making false promises either.

Ladies: make sure you speak it through before going into a commitment.

I conclude my point to still remain the same

Man i am going to get embroiled in circular arguments and i do not want to. i am already very tired and sleepy. I honestly still did not pick up your point despite going through it multiple times.

I think you are trying to say that i am in favor of a seperate house using religion as an excuse.
And you said i called ypu sexist ,which is a term that is a product of egalitarian societies who think sexism is due to gender roles and religious arguments.

Firstly, i did not "hurl" the term at you at all.
I have been an off and on reader here and there were many many ocassions i saw you going hyper in women rights threads and each time you seemed to produce an argument which was never related to whatever those discussions were. For instance i recall once you dragged a whole discussion about a womens only market to several pages, then few days back you were arguing with ,i think divergent, when she and others supported a woman for killing her husband who had been allegedly raping his daughter in law, tho divergent and others had clarified they had commented taking the news on its face value , but still you were unhappy.
there would be so many other such discussions where i would have spotted you doing this. That led me to call you sexist .

So sexism comment was not a trigger happy or "hurling at anyone" response, it was due to having read so many of your similar posts in various discussions.

As of word sexism frankly speaking i have never known the roots of it nor do other people who use it. If i open my dictionary it just states sexism is discrimination, prejudice against women due to their gender. Thats all i read , there is zero mention of religion in it and in general parlance that is how it is used.

Lemme clarify one more thing whenever i give some arguments i usually never say anything that is disliked by our faith.
At the same time i do not use religion as an argument (except few ocassions) but rather check does my religion allow me that? If it does then without mentioning faith i present whatever logical arguments i have in favor of or against a thing. What i feel is islam offers a lot of flexibility and ease , and many things are not defined straightup in shades of black and white because Allah knows our shortcomings and inabilities in performing them , had they been an outright Yes or No, many things are left in grey areas so that we deal with them according to need of hour.

So as i knew many argumnets that iwas putting forth were not disliked in islam , i did not present them using islam allows this allows that. I just stated why so and so thing should be done , could be done and could be avoided.

So if take out islam from the equation as you think sexism and taking care of ones wife on the basis of religion are conflicting ideas, then lets put sexism and wifes rights against each other. With islam out of picture would someone again be able to deny his wife a seperate home ? A peaceful environment to his family?

Buddy you know what you are not sexist , you are more of a "men are victims mentaliy". If someone tells her face is as bright as moon, you would say , No man on earth has ever been complimented like that yet women easily walk away with such praises. We men slog hard all day , put our sweat and blood into work yet noone compares us with moons brightness, not even in the slightest.

Phew! Dimagh ka kachoomar salad bana diya.

Lastly, i would again say overthinking where we start misinterpreting and misunderstanding others is detrimental. Even otherwise it is a waste of mental energy.

@Divergent1 btw i have to agree living costs are quite high in pakistan. Offlately the prices of basic commodities , like vegetables, onions, garlic ginger all have sky rocketed. Thanks to the elected government people are not getting as much pay raises as much as the costs are on upswing.

Why is there no mod available to give this a positive rating!
 
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