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WHAT IT TAKES technly, TO MAKE a J-11b (a modifyied FLANKER), TO TAKE ON MKI!

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Oops.. So not even Russia is ready to sell planes to China ?? :rofl:

WRONG THINKING, china is already making , its own !
its just this deal doesnt , fits both of them?;)
sory , plz try to post good, not just a one linner!:rofl:
 
WRONG THINKING, china is already making , its own !
its just this deal doesnt , fits both of them?;)
sory , plz try to post good, not just a one linner!:rofl:

Its copied technology or cheap fighters is gonna give it a temporary advantage, but thats not gonna do the job unless there is a change in its basic approach ,and that doesn't seem to change in the coming years !

And Is it really necessary to post a whole para just to express a single idea, Is it so hard for you to comprehend ?? :what:I feel comfortable in posting a single line of my own than to copy and paste some else's entire article ! sorry,I am not a die hard fan of coping like you ! :disagree:
 
Its copied technology or cheap fighters is gonna give it a temporary advantage, but thats not gonna do the job unless there is a change in its basic approach ,and that doesn't seem to change in the coming years !

And Is it really necessary to post a whole para just to express a single idea, Is it so hard for you to comprehend ?? :what:I feel comfortable in posting a single line of my own than to copy and paste some else's article ! sorry,I am not a die hard fan of coping like you ! :disagree:

ooch, its hurts, i guss you dont have enough knowledge, to prove your point!
cutting , & pasting , nice & valueble , pice of knowledge, makes readers know about the affairs, what is going on , mostly one linners like you are just , dump kind of trollors!;):wave:
sty away from trolling, try some other thread!
good night!:flame:
 
ooch, its hurts, i guss you dont have enough knowledge, to prove your point!
cutting , & pasting , nice & valueble , pice of knowledge, makes readers know about the affairs, what is going on , mostly one linners like you are just , dump kind of trollors!;):wave:
sty away from trolling, try some other thread!
good night!:flame:

Do you seriously think personal attacks can help you win an argument ? Thats a cheap old trick right of the book. :angry:

Someone copies and pastes because he isnt capable of expressing the idea or is to lazy for that !
 
Flankers Under the Dragon's Wings

A Timeline of Events

by Crobato


1990
June 14. First contract for 24 aircraft signed, 18 single seaters and four dual seaters. The cost for the SK is approximately $32 million while the UBK is about $35 million. Between 50 to 65 percent of the deal may be dealt with barter currency.

1991
SU-27SK specs defined and set at KnAAPO, while SU-27UBK specs defined and set at IAPO. The radar is a new variant of the N001 Myech, called N001E. Paper specs include a maximum search range of 240km, a target engagement range of 80-100km, with 40km at pursuit. 10 targets are tracked while in TWS (Track While Scan) mode. While there is talk about the radar being “export downgraded”, there seems to be no evidence of such. It only appears that previous quotations for the N001's performance is overly optimistic, and the N001E’s figures are more or less closer to the real world performance. Both radars appear exactly the same with the main exception that the N001E has an accurate bombing aid adjusted for bombs similar to MK-82 Rockeyes in the Chinese inventory, as well as Chinese rocket pods, in contrast to Russian rockets and bombs. The N001E may have been subjected to other bug and reliability fixes as well. Various equipment includes RLPK-27 HUD, OEPS-27 opto-electronic system, and RNA-10 navigation system. Landing gear strengthened for an increase to 6,400kg payload. No built in ECM and the first order of aircraft did not include any ECM pods. Missile orders include R-73E, R-27R/T, and R-27ER/ET.

1992
June. Delivery of first batch, 8 SU-27SKs and 4 SU-27UBKs. PLAAF pilots enter 18 month intensive training course. Many of these pilots appear taken from J-8II and J-7 regiments, and the Russians noted their distrust on using radar.

1992
November. Delivery of 12 SU-27SKs, plus two complementary SU-27UBKs for pilot and technician training (No. 25 and 26.) In addition to No. 25 and 26, No.1, 2, 3 and 4 are UBKs. These early deals were paid in barter, such as clothes and tinned goods, which according to RAND, represented about 65% of the total value.. Or if based on a bilateral agreement, deals were conducted with 50% on A50 currency, where this currency is can only be used to purchase Chinese goods. There is criticism about a said requirement that planes and engines must be returned to Russia for overhauls, but it appears to be an interim requirement, as China lacked the facilities to perform such during that time, and in the quality standards required. Maintenance and overhauls will be conducted on Chinese soil when the proper infrastructure is built. The whole maintenance scheme, while sounding austere, needs to be noted that the two Sukhoi factories, IAPO and KnAAPO, are located in the Russian Far East, and actually are much closer to China than they are to Moscow.

1995
22 SU-27 aircraft delivered, 18 SU-27SKs, and 4 SU-27UBK two seaters. There are two complementary aircraft, marked No. 49 and No. 50. This makes a total of 50 aircraft in the first two batches, confirmed by photograph of SU-27SK PLAAF serial number No. 49 and No. 50. One report says a number of these aircraft may have Zhuk-27 radar for testing purposes. Unlike the first order, it now appears the second batch includes Sorbtsya ECM pods. These pods can be retrofitted on the first batch of fighters.

1996 December 6.
License to manufacture signed. Numbers allegedly range from 150 to 300, with 200 the most popularly quoted number. The cost of the license was said to be $2.5 billion, of which $600 million was for knocked down kits, technical documentation and training. According Jane’s and Chinese website reports, this was said to be the SU-27 -SMK variant. However, production turned out to be the basic -SK variant, although Chinese websites and internet posters continue to refer to the license as -SMK.. It may have been possible that China bought the SU-27 license at the SMK level for technological headroom for upgrades in the future. Provisions of this license include 70% maximum local content, 30% minimum Russian content. Engines license is not granted and have to be procured from Russia. No second export is not allowed. Any changes in the specification or improvements must be notified to the Sukhoi bureau including both new build and existing aircraft. If production numbers are not attained, China can exercise an option for Russia to build the equivalent SU-27s. China will set up maintenance facilities for the engines and planes, where as previously it had to send the planes or engines to Russia for overhaul. Knocked down kits were to be initially supplied by KnAAPO, of which the number was later reported to be 50 or 80. Pressing concerns with the Taiwan issue meant that production rates per year would be raised later, with an objective of attaining an optimistic 40 planes a year.

1996
SU-27SMK specs include 8,000kg payload, 12 hard points, two hard points for external fuel tanks, retractable midair refueling probe, Zhuk-27 multirole radar, R-77 and PGM support.

1997
April. About 14-17 SU-27s were seriously damaged in a typhoon. Three were irreparably damaged. One report, needing verification, says that the aircraft was replaced for free, presumably from the Russians’ own inventory, as part of an expression of good will between Russia and China.

1997
Summer. Documentation for the license production is turned over.

1998
December. Two test planes assembled and flew for the first time over Shenyang. But due to poor quality, had to be re-manufactured.

1999
February 20. SU-30 bort 05 is converted into the first SU-30MKK prototype. Bort 05 has previously served as the first SU-30 prototype.

1999
July. Third order of SU-27UBK deal signed, with estimated number up to 28, with each plane about $35 million. All -UBK orders are handled by IAPO, while -SK and –MKK orders are handled by KnAAPO. This order is paid by Russian state debt to China.

1999
August 27. First order of SU-30MKK signed, presumably for 45 aircraft but turns out to be 38 or 40. Early reports vary in number from 40 to 50. The PRC required that KnAAPO be the executor of the contract, instead of IAPO which the Sukhoi has assigned SU-30 two seater construction. KnAAPO built the SU-27SK for the PLAAF but is only allowed to build single seaters. The assignment to KnAAPO showed the PRC being uncomfortable having the SU-30MKK built in the same IAPO plant where the SU-30MKI is being developed in partnership with India.

1999
October 2. A number of SU-27s participated in the National Flag day celebrating the PRC’s fiftieth anniversary. Planes that participated in the event are marked with a red flag near the right side of the cockpit. Planes that participated included bort 02, 024, 025 and 026.

2000
March 5. The first pre-series SU-30MKK, bort 501, had its first flight. The plane showed that despite previously believed, the plane lacked canards and TVC. A notable visual feature about the plane is the SU-35 like tails. The much more conservative approach to the plane suggests that unlike the Indians with their SU-30MKI, the Chinese were not willing to wait for years developing Super Flanker features like TVC, canards and phased array, and was in a big hurry to get their version first. One interesting note about the SU-30MKK is that its physical structure has been strengthened to hold 34.5 metric tons on average and a maximum gross weight of 38.8 metric tons, allowing the plane to use full internal fuel load with its maximum 8,000kg payload on 12 hardpoints. The radar of the plane is identified as the N001VE mated to the SUV-VEP and SUV-P weapons subsystems, each using a Baguet-6 processor, a 486 class chip. The weapons systems allow the use of among others, the R-27R/ER/T/ET and R-77 for BVR; R-73E for close combat; Kh-29T/TE, Kh-31A/P, Kh-59ME, and KaB-500/1500/kr bombs for ground and ship attack. The radar can simultaneously detect, track and scan ten targets, and engage two of them with automatic prioritization or manual selection. It can also guide two missiles to one target. The plane has the OEPS-31E-MK, which has the improved longer ranged OLS-30 IRST and laser target designation. The plane also has the ability to secure datalink with 16 other SU-30s or aircraft with compatible links. The front cockpit include two large 6x8 color MFDs and the rear cockpit with another two large 6x8 color MFDs. The AK-9 pod enables use of the Kh-59ME, while the UOMZ Sapsan-E pod under development for the MKK, allows use of laser guided weapons on a level flight trajectory. The plane can also carry two Sorbtsya ECM pods on the wing tips.

2000
May 10. There are reports that China purchased at least 100 R-77s. The exact model is the R-77E with a clearance code name of R-129.

2000
May 19. The second pre-series SU-30MKK, bort 502, had its first test flight. There is some dispute as to when exactly is the first flight of the prototypes. The plane had a PLAAF style camouflage in contrast to the Russian blue and white camo on the 501.

2000
August 10. One report says that seven SU-30MKK has been completed on this date (Russian Military Power site). Another report says that an SU-30MKK prototype, was turned over (aeronautics.ru). This could have been Bort 501.

2000
Shenyang Aircraft Corporation begins serial assembly of SU-27, a.k.a J-11. 10 were completed and delivered with 11 (7+4) completed and under testing prior to delivery. The planes did not prove to be SU-27SMK standard, but rather an upgraded SU-27SK.

2000
November 6-12. SU-30MKK bort 502 was publicly displayed in Zhuhai 2000. An SU-30MKK prototype was said to have been ceremoniously handed over at Zhuhai airshow.

2000
December 20. China receives the first 6 out of a initial batch of 10 SU-30MKK from KnAAPO.

2000
December 22. 8 (10 according to IAPO) of the third batch IAPO built SU-27UBK were received and assigned to the Chengdu region. They were reportedly equipped with an updated radar capable of firing the R-77 missile (N001V?) The payload of these UBKs are raised to about 8,000kg. It is possible that this updated radar may also equip the J-11s, considering the 28 plane batch of SU-27UBKs were meant to train pilots for the licensed J-11s. It is also possible that the J-11s may have raised their payloads to 8,000kg, which seems to be a consistent pattern in PLAAF requirements. Early planes of this SU-27UBK batch have bort numbers over 50. No bort numbers are painted in the nose, and the bort numbers are only placed in the tail, indicating a new PLAAF policy.

2001
January 10. More SU-30MKK arrives to Nanjing. Probably completing batch of 10 planes. Sukhoi appeared to have upgraded the J-11 (licensed SU-27SK) engine (Kanwa).
2001
January 20. SU-30MKK official first flight under PLAAF colors.

2001
March 18. China orders 20 Sokol radars, with Russian government clearing the order as well as more advanced technology orders including Klub missiles. Sokol radars are presumed for upgrading J-11/SU-27 licensed or for equipping the J-10, though the latter proved incorrect eventually.
2001
April. There is some dispute on the schedule of deliveries of the first order SU-30MKK. Another report places about some aircraft, possibly 8 being delivered on this month.

2001
April 17. SU-30MKK bort 502 makes its appearance on the Le Bourget airshow in Paris.

2001
May 20. CCTV showed a video clip of a SU-30MKK firing Kh-59ME missile at night.

2001
June. Quite similar to an SU-30MKK and probably hosting the same radar, a Russian SU-30KN prototype managed to successfully test fire the Kh-31A antiship missile. Given the late test, it’s quite suggestive that the earlier SU-30MKKs were not tested or fitted with this missile, although the SU-30MKK specs called for it.

2001
July 10. Russia displays KAB-1500kr with SU-30MKK (Kanwa).


2001
July 30. China signs contract for the second order of SU-30MKK, presumably 38 aircraft. Reports vary from 38 or 40. It was originally believed that the deliveries of this order was to begin on the end of 2003. Later, this contract became the subject of a big squabble between the newly formed Sukhoi AVPK umbrella organization, against its biggest factory, KnAAPO. Sukhoi planned to transfer the contract from KnAAPO to IAPO (Irkut). While the original SU-30MKK is a KnAAPO design, Irkut would substitute by building its SU-30KN design as “SU-30MKK”. Chinese government may have intervened to force the contract assignment back to KnAAPO.

2001
August 16-20. Zhuk-MS radar announced. This is the SU-27/30 version (N010MS) of the Zhuk M radar (N010M) superceding the original Zhuk N010. Zhuk-MS replaces the original Zhuk-27 based on the Zhuk N010. The radar can simultaneously track 20 fighter sized targets and engage four of them at ranges to 120 or 140km. It also features a number of air to ground modes, including a 3m square synthetic aperture radar mode.

2001
August 16-20. MAKS2001 held in Russia showing a third SU-30MKK “prototype” called “503", whose unfinished paint condition suggests a serial production SU-30MKK on loan for publicity purposes. Flight International revealed that the radar for the SU-30MKK would be changed to the Zhuk-MS in the third batch after the 20th plane. This is also reported by JED.

2001
August. 10 more of the SU-30MKK received.

2001
September 20. China reordered KAB-500L laser guided bomb (Kanwa). It is probably that SU-30MKK might have ordered SAPSAN-E pod to use with these bombs.

2001
September 30. China receives more 10 SU-27UBK from IAPO.

2001

October 10. China signs a letter of intent to purchase air launched Kh-31 antiship missile. (Kanwa).

2001
December. The last batch SU-30MKK received from the first order, said to be 18 planes. These were assigned to a flight test center near Beijing. Bort 21, 26, 33, 34, and 36 has been photographed and identified. It is possible these planes may be fitted with the Zhuk MS radar for testing. According to some publications, only the first 20 aircraft of the SU-30MKK is fitted with the N001VE radar.

2001
Possibly 20 J-11s were finished for the year of 2001, adding to the alleged 21 in 2000. Shenyang displayed an SU-27 mockup in their office. The mockup, bort “2001" carried R-77s, Kh-31 and Kh-29 missiles, suggesting an intended multirole capability for the J-11 as the plane is upgraded. While the product looks like an SK, no doubt the intention of the license—if not the entire PLA Flanker program—was for multirole.

2001
December 28. Sukhoi announced a very successful year with overall deliveries for the year amounted to 50 aircraft. 30 of these were SU-30MKK, 10 of these were SU-27UBK for the PLAAF probably delivered sometime in November or December, and the last 10 were SU-24MK for the Algerian Air Force.


2002 March. Annual spring exercises may have showed the most frequent and most intensive use of the Flankers in exercises yet, including use of SU-30MKKs. However, SU-30MKKs were reported not having fitted any weapons.

2002 April. Allegedly, an SU-30 was said to have crashed into the side of the mountain. While there is no direct proof of the accident, there are reports and rumors of officer turnovers suggestive of a backlash from possible attrition in exercises. This was denied by Sukhoi in a press release February 2003.

2002 May. CCTV held a celebration in honor of the Shenyang Aircraft Company right in TV. The show featured two newly built SU-27/J-11s on stage. Other than a “J-11A” mockup in the Shenyang office showroom, this was the first time China acknowledged domestic construction of the SU-27, and the first time such planes were ever seen up close. The fit and finish of the Chinese made Flankers appear superior to the Russian ones, with the manufacture of the planes with the purchase of state of the art precision machinery.


2002 June. There was an acceleration of production in SAC, XAC and CAC plants with full 24 hour shifts. This suggests a major effort to increase J-11 production rate to as high as 30 to 40 a year . It was reported that four “case hardened” J-10s have joined an SU-27 unit for evaluation and had mock dogfights with SU-27s.

2002 June 29. Debka.com reported that a Chinese software engineer has manage break the software for the SU-27's fire control radar. This maybe a step forward either in reverse engineering the radar or adapting the use of local guided missiles to it.

2002 June 30. A monumental first flight. A J-11 equipped with one WS-10A engine in one side and the AL-31F in the other takes off. Later, the J-11 activates the WS-10A in midair, and for the first time, takes flight on its own power.

2002 July 1. First report of a confirmed firing of R-77s from two Chinese SU-30MKKs in the week before.

2002 July 10. PLA officer admits intention to equip R-77 with SU-27s and SU-30s. (defense-aerospace.com.)

2002 July-August. China presumably will sign another contract for the third order of SU-30, now SU-30MK2, presumably a new navalized variant for the airborne arm of the Chinese Navy, the PLANAF. Reports say the plane can use the Kh-31A antiship missile up to a range of 200km and will be equipped with Zhuk radar from Phazotron.

2002 August 19. 10 SU-30MKK delivered, presumably for the PLANAF (Interfax). These planes were delivered to a base in Anhui province.

2002 August 22. A total of 10 J-10s joined an SU-27 unit for evaluation.

2002 August 27. Yomiuri Shinbun reported that China signed a contract for 38 SU-30MK for the Chinese Navy. Other reports put it either at 40 or 28.

2002 October. All weapons of the SU-30MKK were successfully fired and tested.

2002 November 6-12. Zhuhai air show. Interview with Sukhoi chief designer spoke of an upgraded version, the SU-30MKK2, while Douglas Barrie of Aviation Week mentions of forthcoming SU-30MKK variants as SU-30MK2 and SU-30MK3. According to Barrie, SU-30MK2 still uses the updated N001 base radar but improved, while the SU-30MK3 will use the Zhuk-MSE which can detect a destroyer sized target at sea as far as 300km. Raduga displayed a new antiship missile, Kh-59MK for the SU-30MK3, while Tikhomirov NIIP displayed the Pero phase array that could be used to upgrade the N001 radars. Sukhoi also announced intention to create an office in Beijing, working to improve support and looking for ward for more sales. Parts will be stored in various depots in Russian air bases near the Chinese border, set for immediate delivery.

2002 November. Chinese reports indicate that local content of J-11 production has now reached 60%. 10 to 15 kits were delivered for the year, and the entire 80 to 120 kits may be completed by next year. From then on, Shenyang plans to allow the entire plane to be made from 100% indigenous components, including engines like the WS-10A, home grown radar, and use Chinese missiles like the SD-10 and YJ series. This plan indicates that either the content restriction has been lifted or Shenyang plans to override them anyway. It is more likely that the restriction has been lifted in exchange for some offset, possibly something like the guarantee of future SU-30 purchases.

2002 November. 10 SU-27UBK delivered as IAPO announced completion of deliveries of third order SU-27UBK. The UBKs equipped the 33rd division in Chongqing.

2002 December 16. 9 SU-30MKK according to Interfax. The planes landed in an airbase at Tsuizhou along with two IL-76 transports carrying spare parts.

2002 December. For the first time, publicity pictures were shown showing the SU-30MKK equipped with ECM pods, Kh-31P missile and Kh-29T. What’s more important than the pictures themselves is the message behind it, indicating willingness to arm and use the plane in the wake of the North Korean nuclear crisis.


2003 January 15. Richard Fisher of the Jamestown Foundation made a report from his Zhuhai 2002 experience, confirming the SU-30MK2 and SU-30MK3 for the Chinese Navy. It is presumed that the Chinese Navy intends to arm at least three regiments of SU-30MK2/3, amounting to at least 60 aircraft. Of the sixty, 28 will be SU-30MK2 and 40 might be SU-30MK3. SU-30MK3 will be equipped with Kh-59MK with a targeting range of 300km. At least several dozens of J-11 were said to be completed, but will terminate at either the 80th or 120th aircraft, suggesting a move to a new model. (Some other reports presumed it may be SU-30MKK, others an improved single seater variant (J-11A?) with SD-10 compatibility, multirole and midflight refueling capability that can serve as an interim version either to a fully domestic SU-27 or SU-30MKK license. Earlier reports suggest SU-30MKK license could entail as much as 150-250 aircraft.)

2003 January 14. CNN reports China engaging in a massive war game exercise. Since China usually engages in war games in springtime, the timing of this exercise is a surprise. “New fighters” were reported to be training aggressively more than ever before, and this is presumed to be SU-30MKKs.

2003 January 15. JDW reports that China is close to a deal in signing a 28 plane contract. This is presumably the 28 planes for the PLANAF. Does it mean that the deal wasn’t signed last August? Or is this a separate new deal?


2003 January 26. China signs a 30 aircraft deal according to the Moscow Times. The deal will purchase the SU-30MK2 for the Chinese Navy, enabled to use the Kh-31A supersonic antiship missile. Numbers for this deal differ from 24 to 28 depending on whose report. It is presumed that the Kh-31A is also purchased. As many as six of these supersonic missiles can be carried by one SU-30MKK for a deadly saturation attack.

2003 February 10. Sukhoi denies SU-30MKK crash as claimed by Taiwan. (Kanwa).

2003 March 10. J-10 inducted into the PLAAF. This plane promises to pose internal rivalry and competition for resources and funding within the PLAAF.

2003 March 11. JED reveals SU-30MKK upgrade plans. It reveals that the 20 SU-30MKKs received in 2002 were actually SU-30MK2 for the Navy, and orders received in 2003 will the SU-30MK3 fitted with Zhuk-MSE radar (Zhuk-MS Export or Extended). Article also reveals that China plans to upgrade existing SU-30MKKs to the MK3 standard.

2003 April 11-12. CCTV ran an interview with SU-27 and SU-30 pilots, showed the planes as well as what is inside their cockpits. The clip also showed the SU-30MKK launching air to ground missiles.

2003 As of May 1, the following formations in the PLAAF are equipped with the SU-27s, J-11s and SU-30s: the 1st Regiment of the 1st Division, based in Anshan; 4th fighter regiment of the 2nd Air Division at ShuiXi; 9th fighter regiment of the 3rd Air Division at Wuhu; a regiment of the 19th Air Division at Zhengzhou; a regiment of the 28th Division at Quzhou; and the 90th fighter regiment of the 33rd Air Division at Chongqing. An unspecified number of planes, including bort 21 to 38 SU-30MKK are at the Flight Test Center at Cangzhou near Beijing. Another formation might be in the process of conversion, this likely to be a regiment in the 29th Division at Quzhou near Nanjing, formerly equipped with J-7Ds. The 14th Division in the Nanjing military region which also acts as a Blue Flag Aggressor force, may also be equipped with a number of SU-27s. A PLA air regiment consists of 20-40 aircraft.



Notes on Press Events:

It must be said that the news coverage on China’s Flanker programs are often muddled and contradictory. Up to now there is actually no Chinese official acknowledgment of the actual numbers purchased from each order. One should be reminded to keep an open mind, as new events or disclosures might reveal truths about China’s Flanker program that may even overturn previous accepted ideas. Sources like Kanwa, Jane’s, Richard Fisher, JED online, Flight International, AFM, Aviation Week, may be fairly reliable but even these are not perfect.
www.china defence.com
 
Do you seriously think personal attacks can help you win an argument ? Thats a cheap old trick right of the book. :angry:

Someone copies and pastes because he isnt capable of expressing the idea or is to lazy for that !

sory, its enough, so back off!
express, your ideas some where else!
trolling , is band here!:rofl::wave:

or if , you like i, can report it!:azn:
 
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