What if PAF has to defend on two fronts?

[SherdiL!]

yes you are right about that. have faith and face what has to be faced with courage. its the essence of all .... koran, geeta, buddhism, old and new testament ........ i agree

glad we can agree

 

[Pashtun]

I agree. India will go it alone. Oh by the ways orders came yesterday to cancel leaves of all IA, IAF and IN personnel. Things are ready now the political decision is awaited.

I don't think India can go alone or even act alone. It's not in the favour of India to act alone to destroy someone else' economy (hinting at the investment large corporations have made in India). There are other multiple factors India will not attack Pakistan on its own as it already have three experiences in the past with the same guy its thinking about invading the 4th time.

That being said, what I see right now is, India is being pushed by Zionist who are using India (and its emotional public) as forward policy against Pakistan. The military tacticians in the west have invented this strategy long time back of using someone's else lands, army, people and economy for their war, hence India is being duped in this forward strategy by manipulating innocent emotions of indian public to neutralize the threat Israel has in Asia.

Take Israel's objectives out, and India and Pakistan are going to have no-visa entry soon, but does Israel want that? Would Russia and America (recently having this honeymoon with India) like to see the two rivals getting cozy? who are actually their biggest arms buyers (note, they will even sell you the rope if you are hanging them).

So no, India has no benefit in going to war with Pakistan. Pakistan will lay waste to India (having herself destroyed as well), and that doesn't suit any of the neighbours, except the invaders, that already have created a huge vaccume in the past by manipulating the emotions of people and political corruption of both countries.

My appoligies for going off the topic tho!

 

[batmannow]

It an't happening in 3 years time.
If budget being made available than 5 years is more realistic time frame for ur wish list. This is again my personal estimation.

Dear & Hounrable, BATMAN; sir
i guss, there is an old english saying "IF THERE IS A WILL, THN THERE IS WAY"! nothing immposible in this world, its up to our leaders , how they think & act?
The " PAKISTANI BUDGET" was never enough, & never will in the future!
but the point here is that, 2 front attacks are the clear & preasent danger to PAF right! so what could be done, to adress this very dangerous question?

should we, keep crying that our economy isnt enough to defend our dear home land, so that one day in the future , some (so -called allies ) occupy us?
i guss, key to good economy is the stronger defence!
so , if any how we invest in our defence, surlly it will bring a solid gurantee for the investors, that country is not IRAQ, IT CANT BE DEFETED, LIKE IRAQ!
Now the question comes in the mind , that how to bring the money?

its not the subject here, & i am no expert of it ! but for me its important to increase our defence to the level , that no one can even think about to come to our air space , from any side , any front.
for that reason , if we had to sell " any hard ware to any one like, IRAN IS ABSLOUTLY , RIGHT", also there are many options are availible .

but any way , we should seriously start thinking "change in the doctrine" of our DEAR PAF's policy , which was created a long decade ago, the time has changed , machines were changed, the dangers were changed, so should our , doctrine should be changed?

 

[Firebird_80]

I don't think India can go alone or even act alone. It's not in the favour of India to act alone to destroy someone else' economy (hinting at the investment large corporations have made in India). There are other multiple factors India will not attack Pakistan on its own as it already have three experiences in the past with the same guy its thinking about invading the 4th time.

That being said, what I see right now is, India is being pushed by Zionist who are using India (and its emotional public) as forward policy against Pakistan. The military tacticians in the west have invented this strategy long time back of using someone's else lands, army, people and economy for their war, hence India is being duped in this forward strategy by manipulating innocent emotions of indian public to neutralize the threat Israel has in Asia.

Take Israel's objectives out, and India and Pakistan are going to have no-visa entry soon, but does Israel want that? Would Russia and America (recently having this honeymoon with India) like to see the two rivals getting cozy? who are actually their biggest arms buyers (note, they will even sell you the rope if you are hanging them).

So no, India has no benefit in going to war with Pakistan. Pakistan will lay waste to India (having herself destroyed as well), and that doesn't suit any of the neighbours, except the invaders, that already have created a huge vaccume in the past by manipulating the emotions of people and political corruption of both countries.

My appoligies for going off the topic tho!

actually howsoever you wish, this whole incident (mumbai) is not a ZIONIST conspiracy ..... come on I mean this is height of delusions .....

and granted there is a definite desire for peace ( for India it is to do more with utilising this time to become economically, socially and militarily all the more stronger) and even the general populance of pakistan as also GoP wants peace, there are elements within PA and ISI not in favor of the same. (Even IA now having same) Only difference is that amount of nutcases on Pak side are way much higher, not so in India. Also PA directly interferes in governance while we keep IA on leash here.Military has no role in this democracy. There is hardly democracy in Pakistan .... and if democracy is installed fully, PA and ISI loose their primacy in set up, and what other way than to raise India Bogey to keep their primacy in place ..... something like the mess caste and religious politics made in our polity .......

But we cant wish our negatives away .......... and the fact remains Pakistan is the biggest source of terror camps, terror networks and safe haven for militants. There are no freedom fighters, just too many unemployed people who are too poor, who are brain washed in madarssas, have no formal education except islamic scriptures and that too distorted interpretation of that (Wahabism) calling upon any and all to wage Jihad.

Why is there no Jihad against poverty, ignorance and inequality? why are resources not being used for war against hunger and abject poverty?

The fact of life is that the Pak society (once the most sophisticated and advanced and enlightened) is degenrating now post 1980s which saw radicalistaion under Zia-ul-Haq and destruction of Pak social fabric as we see it. Today you have more terrorists hitting your own cities (these are the ones you are fighting) and what better way than to deflect their attention to India, Israel etc so that they cause less internal problems and you remain safe and have your own frankenstein to control?

 

[Firebird_80]

Dear & Hounrable, BATMAN; sir
i guss, there is an old english saying "IF THERE IS A WILL, THN THERE IS WAY"! nothing immposible in this world, its up to our leaders , how they think & act?
The " PAKISTANI BUDGET" was never enough, & never will in the future!
but the point here is that, 2 front attacks are the clear & preasent danger to PAF right! so what could be done, to adress this very dangerous question?

should we, keep crying that our economy isnt enough to defend our dear home land, so that one day in the future , some (so -called allies ) occupy us?
i guss, key to good economy is the stronger defence!
so , if any how we invest in our defence, surlly it will bring a solid gurantee for the investors, that country is not IRAQ, IT CANT BE DEFETED, LIKE IRAQ!
Now the question comes in the mind , that how to bring the money?

its not the subject here, & i am no expert of it ! but for me its important to increase our defence to the level , that no one can even think about to come to our air space , from any side , any front.
for that reason , if we had to sell " any hard ware to any one like, IRAN IS ABSLOUTLY , RIGHT", also there are many options are availible .

but any way , we should seriously start thinking "change in the doctrine" of our DEAR PAF's policy , which was created a long decade ago, the time has changed , machines were changed, the dangers were changed, so should our , doctrine should be changed?

The key to a stronger defence force is a stronger economy to sustain it. If you study Indian history .... in 1991 it was on verge of bankruptcy ..... and over next decade, under economic reforms, the defence budget was sufficient only for pays and not even accomodations for men could be made as there were no fundings due to austerity measures, but that decade saw Indian defence forces stagnate while Pakistan strengthened ..... in Kargil it was difficult going for india initially till hurried procurements were done ..... there after the situation was different, one decade of hard economic policy saw us decline militarily but strengthen economically and now we have an economy which is still growin in this hard phase of economic meltdown even in china (which has no growth this yr for 1st time in decades) and so we have the funds to buy any and everything that pleases us ..... you need to change and become a true democracy, strengthen your society and go for economic strength then military .... no one is invading pakistan in near future be rest assured ...... india is not interested .........

 

[batmannow]

actually howsoever you wish, this whole incident (mumbai) is not a ZIONIST conspiracy ..... come on I mean this is height of delusions .....

and granted there is a definite desire for peace ( for India it is to do more with utilising this time to become economically, socially and militarily all the more stronger) and even the general populance of pakistan as also GoP wants peace, there are elements within PA and ISI not in favor of the same. (Even IA now having same) Only difference is that amount of nutcases on Pak side are way much higher, not so in India. Also PA directly interferes in governance while we keep IA on leash here.Military has no role in this democracy. There is hardly democracy in Pakistan .... and if democracy is installed fully, PA and ISI loose their primacy in set up, and what other way than to raise India Bogey to keep their primacy in place ..... something like the mess caste and religious politics made in our polity .......

But we cant wish our negatives away .......... and the fact remains Pakistan is the biggest source of terror camps, terror networks and safe haven for militants. There are no freedom fighters, just too many unemployed people who are too poor, who are brain washed in madarssas, have no formal education except islamic scriptures and that too distorted interpretation of that (Wahabism) calling upon any and all to wage Jihad.

Why is there no Jihad against poverty, ignorance and inequality? why are resources not being used for war against hunger and abject poverty?

The fact of life is that the Pak society (once the most sophisticated and advanced and enlightened) is degenrating now post 1980s which saw radicalistaion under Zia-ul-Haq and destruction of Pak social fabric as we see it. Today you have more terrorists hitting your own cities (these are the ones you are fighting) and what better way than to deflect their attention to India, Israel etc so that they cause less internal problems and you remain safe and have your own frankenstein to control?

Firebird_80
its enough, & final ,stay on the topic!

just keep it to yourself oky.

 

[batmannow]

The key to a stronger defence force is a stronger economy to sustain it. If you study Indian history .... in 1991 it was on verge of bankruptcy ..... and over next decade, under economic reforms, the defence budget was sufficient only for pays and not even accomodations for men could be made as there were no fundings due to austerity measures, but that decade saw Indian defence forces stagnate while Pakistan strengthened ..... in Kargil it was difficult going for india initially till hurried procurements were done ..... there after the situation was different, one decade of hard economic policy saw us decline militarily but strengthen economically and now we have an economy which is still growin in this hard phase of economic meltdown even in china (which has no growth this yr for 1st time in decades) and so we have the funds to buy any and everything that pleases us ..... you need to change and become a true democracy, strengthen your society and go for economic strength then military .... no one is invading pakistan in near future be rest assured ...... india is not interested .........

Firebird_80;
you think india is the only the one & the biggest, in the world economicly!
economics is not the subject of the post, read my post carefully! its not directed to the economic side, there were some militry systems, & aircrafts, which can blooster PAF initianly & can block all intruders from all fronts, for that its need money thats it.

india is the one of the poorest nations on earth, & pakistan also is not a golden economic hub!
plz plz , stick to the dimmension's of the thread!

 

[Firebird_80]

Firebird_80
its enough, & final ,stay on the topic!

just keep it to yourself oky.

Dear Moderators
my apologies please accept the same

was only replying to earlier thread. and have quoted the same .... why is it that am being warned whereas other deviators are not? anyways wont happen now

 

[batmannow]

Dear Moderators
my apologies please accept the same

was only replying to earlier thread. and have quoted the same .... why is it that am being warned whereas other deviators are not? anyways wont happen now

Firebird_80; sir
you are one hell of talented guy, plz be smart!
thats what all i can say, check it out , most senior hawwks like xman, & many others, also been , alaramed.
bythe way , PAF MOTO IS "DO & DIE , DONT ASK WHY"
so plz , dont ask "WHY" next time, its pakistan defence fourm, sir!
& the hawks here do same, no "WHY"

 

[batmannow]

GEO World
Declare FATA part of Afghan war: U.S. think-tank
Updated at: 1732 PST, Thursday, January 08, 2009

WASHINGTON: A US-based think-tank has asked the incoming Obama administration to declare it a part of the Afghan war theatre, terming the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) of Pakistan as the "most dangerous place" in the world,.
Observing that a "nuclear Pakistan as a base for international terrorism is a prospect that the world cannot afford," the Centre for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) asked the US government to redefine the territory of war in the region to include FATA.
This, it said, would help CENTCOM the US Central Command to cooperate with the Pakistan army in both military and economic development efforts as needed and agreed on by both the countries.
The observations were part of a report "FATA A Most Dangerous Place" authored by Shuja Nawaz, a Pakistani journalist, who has just been appointed as the first Director of the South Asia Centre at the Atlantic Council of the US.
"FATA remains a most dangerous place, with the failure of governance and the rise of militancy affecting Afghanistan and Pakistan not only individually and separately but also jointly," Nawaz said, concluding his observations.

"A nuclear Pakistan as a base for international terrorism is a prospect that the world cannot afford," he said.
Author of the book "Crossed Swords: Pakistan, its Army and the War Within" released last year, Nawaz was the first war correspondent of Pakistani Television in 1971, according to his bio put on his website.

In his foreward to the report, Arnaud De Borchgrave, director Transnational Threats, CSIS said: "Pakistan is the ground zero in the US-jihadist war."

 

[notorious_eagle]

dear commrads, this a very important time in pakistan's history, most of us were thinking , about IAF ambitious plans to strike inside pakistan, but i guss , its not only that, i guss , from 1 side USAF+NATO will be taking on PAF, on the other side IAF would be looking in to the ezy targets inside pakistan.

so, does PAF has a plan & capabilities to defend pakistan , on both sides at the same time!

plz give up your good sums!
thanks

If the US Air Force attacks us through Afghanistan, there is pretty much nothing PAF can do. This is an air force that has the best aircrafts in the world (F22, F35, F15, F16, F18) along with (B52, B2, B1). Not to mention they have the best radars and the best jammers in the world. The maximum PAF can hold against USAF is for two days, not more than that. That being said, if the USAF engages in any misadventure they will practically shoot themselves in the foot. Pakistan will start aiding Afghan guerillas heavily and thousands of Pakistan soldiers disguised as guerillas will go and fight the Americans with some of the most modern weapons. It will be a complete nightmare for the NATO forces, also keep in mind that Pakistan has nuclear weapons.

 

[Jihad]

Sigh, American double standards.
Pakistan should fight its own war against these militants, without any American intervention, they only want more and more as time goes on, and the question is, can we give? And if so, what will be the consequenses of our "well willingness" towards the U.S.

 

[batmannow]

India upgrades MiG-27 to sharpen strike capability
January 08, 2009 Thursday Muharram 10, 1430
dawnnews

NEW DELHI, Jan 7: India is upgrading its MiG-27 fighters to sharpen their strike capabilities, officials said on Wednesday, even as experts say the recent Mumbai attacks have exposed the country’s need to modernise its defence forces.
Although the upgrade was planned well ahead of the attacks, officials said the defence ministry wanted to speed up modernisation of its forces to tackle any future security threat.
India is spending $92 million to develop the fighters with precise navigational equipment, better weapons aiming and accurate ranging sensors for hitting ground targets.

“The hardware and avionics bit has already been fitted into 40 fighters, and the software is being loaded now,” said Suranjan Pal, a senior official of the Defence Research and Development Organisation.

With the upgrading, the MiG fighters would last for another 10 years and have autopilot and auto weapon delivery facilities, a senior Indian Air Force official said.

India is looking to spend $30 billion on imports over the next five years to modernise its largely Soviet-era arms and is also trying to strengthen its navy by introducing new weapons systems.

The MiG-27 aircraft was originally built in the former Soviet Union in the mid-1970s before it was licensed to be produced in India.

India, fast becoming one of the world’s biggest arms importers, wants to modernise its air force, the fourth largest in the world, to cope with possible security threats in the region, security experts said.

“This is something more than it meets the eye; India is now very keen to signal to all the people that are monitoring the country that India is modernising its defence units,” C. Uday Bhaskar, a strategic affairs expert told Reuters.

“It seems we are now putting all the pieces together.”

India is also considering upgrading its other fighter fleet, including Mirage 2000s, Jaguars and MiG-29s, ahead of procuring the new generation Sukhoi-30MKIs, officials said.

It has also invited bids for a contract to supply 126 multi-role fighter jets, potentially worth more than $10 billion.

 

[batmannow]

If the US Air Force attacks us through Afghanistan, there is pretty much nothing PAF can do. This is an air force that has the best aircrafts in the world (F22, F35, F15, F16, F18) along with (B52, B2, B1). Not to mention they have the best radars and the best jammers in the world. The maximum PAF can hold against USAF is for two days, not more than that. That being said, if the USAF engages in any misadventure they will practically shoot themselves in the foot. Pakistan will start aiding Afghan guerillas heavily and thousands of Pakistan soldiers disguised as guerillas will go and fight the Americans with some of the most modern weapons. It will be a complete nightmare for the NATO forces, also keep in mind that Pakistan has nuclear weapons.

notorious_eagle;sir
there are many nations on earth, who faced USAF, with dignity, with stronger will, & nwith accurate planning with most availible resources, how about VIETNAM! how many aircrafts they got , when they faced the "notoriously big" super power?
how about CHINA, how modernized thier radars were?
most recntly NORTH KOREA, denied every accsess to USAF, how many hi-tech radars & aircrafts they have???

it takes courage , determination, & well knowing of your resources, i guss pakistan still has time , for that kind of show down!
there are certain steps , we should took quickly!
1.we can get S-300 sams from china , easily & in large numbers, its very effective system, which kept USAF out of chinese airspace till now, we can put S-300 battries smartly allaround the FATA (particullarly) & also , around our stratagicly important locations, all around the country.
2. we should try to get more of , JF-17s & J10s & if possible j11s, I guss after putting S-300 in good numbers, we can, at least go for the kill with JF-17s & J10s + existing F-16s, mirrages, f-7pgs & this combination will surly make USAF out of pakistani skies , so PAF can wait (comfortably) IAF on the other front ?
3.we should try to get more of AWACS?
4. politicly we should futher enhance our relaions stratagicly with countries countries like IRAN & RUSSIA?

also we need to belive ourselves, thinking a "defeat before a battle" isnt going to help us, any way?

 

[Ahassan]

Firebird_80; sir
you are one hell of talented guy, plz be smart!
thats what all i can say, check it out , most senior hawwks like xman, & many others, also been , alaramed.
bythe way , PAF MOTO IS "DO & DIE , DONT ASK WHY"
so plz , dont ask "WHY" next time, its pakistan defence fourm, sir!
& the hawks here do same, no "WHY"

No my friend Pakistan Armed forces motto is not "DO OR DIE" its "DO IT BEFORE U DIE"!!!