What if PAF has to defend on two fronts?

[Patriot]

I don't think any other nation will intervene..

 

[x_man]

x_man;sir
, 'so too many speculations into this multiple attack scenario will bring many false hypothesis."
but , some surly bring right ones too!

Till the time we dont know the force structure that PAF will be pitched agaisnt, it will all be speculations and guesses...what do you say ? ...

 

[batmannow]

Till the time we dont know the force structure that PAF will be pitched agaisnt, it will all be speculations and guesses...what do you say ? ...

x_man; sir
speculations and guesses!
hum.....?
i think most of the militry experts & planners do thier jobs, on the lines of " speculations and guesses"!
even its not the perfect time , but i really like to see PAF , becomes at least to the point , same as PLAF, where no body dares to talk rubbish, think rubbish & do rubish?
i think , in the very comming future ,if any how PAF can get 150 more (j-10s),
100 more (j-11bs), & very importantly 200 plus more THUNDERS, with all equiped with PL-12 , (Air-to-Air Missille's) & more availible BVR'S capabilities, surly its ready to take on , both fornts.
also included, S-300PMU,HQ-12 (KS-1) , HQ-9, HQ-2 Surface-to-Air Missile SystemS, i am 1000% sure that even USAF would be thinking twice, to even think some thing silly , about pakistan?


PL-12 Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile

"Key Information"
Chinese Name: PiLi-12 (PL-12)
Export Name: SheDian-10 (SD-10)
Contractor: China Academy of Air-to-Air Missile
Service Status: In service with the PLAAF and PLA Navy

The PL-12 (PiLi-12) is an active radar-homing ‘beyond-visual-range’ medium-range air-to-air missile (MRAAM) with multiple targets engagement capability, comparable to the U.S. AIM-120 AMRAAM and Russian R-77 (NATO codename: AA-12 Adder) in size and performance. The missile has been developed by Luoyang-based China Academy of Air-to-Air Missile (CAAAM), and has been promoted to the international market under the name SD-10 (SheDian-10).

Development of the PL-12 began in 1997, and CAAAM faced tremendous difficulties in the development due to lack of experience. The missile development was completed in 2005. During a fire test carried out on 16 August 2005, a total of eleven missiles were fired, all hitting their targets. A multi-target fire testing carried out in late 2005 was also successful. The missile has been equipped by the indigenous J-8F, J-10 and J-11B fighters in service with the PLAAF and PLA Naval Aviation.

The PL-12 has possibly adopted the AMR-1 active radar seeker developed by CAAAM in the late 1990s. Unconfirmed reports suggested the AMR-1 development was assisted by Russian Agat Bureau, the designer of the R-77’s seeker. There is also report suggesting that the PL-12 contains some elements of the Israeli Derby MRAAM technology. The PL-12 is powered by a Chinese-designed motor giving a maximum range of 70km and speed of Mach 4. The missile was claimed to be more manoeuvrable than the Russian R-77, and approach the U.S. AIM-120A in general performance.

The PL-12 features four delta wings, four tail fins (control surfaces), and externally mounted wiring harness cover. The specially designed “clipped” tail fins provides lower drag for greater speed and higher torque for better manoeuvrability. Two datalink antennas can be seen next to the nozzle for mid-course correction. With its active radar seeker, the missile is “fire and forget”, without the need of continuous guidance from the carrier aircraft. This enables several missiles to be fired simultaneously at multiple targets.

"Specifications"

Length: 3,850mm
Diameter: 203mm
Wingspan: 674mm
Launch weight: 180kg
Propulsion: Rocket motor
Max speed: Mach 4
Max range: 50~70km
G Limit: 38g
Guidance mode: Inertial + mid-course correction + terminal active radar
Warhead: HE-fragment
Fuse: Laser/microwave

OR?

PL-11 Medium-Range Air-to-Air Missile
"Key Information"

Chinese Name: PiLi-11 (PL-11)
Contractor: Shanghai Academy of Spaceflight Technology
Service Status: In service with the PLAAF and PLA Navy

"Summary"
The PL-11 (PiLi-11) semi-active radar-homing medium-range air-to-air missile (MRAAM) has been developed by Shanghai Academy of Spaceflight Technology (SAST), based on the seeker technology of the Italian Alenia Aspide. The Aspide was derived from the U.S. AIM-7 Sparrow MRAAM, but with a monopulse seeker replacing the conic scan seeker for improved accuracy and better resistance to jamming.

The PLA obtained some examples of the Italian Alenia Aspide MRAAM in the mid-1980s for trial and evaluation. Later an agreement was signed between China and Italy to co-produce the missile locally under license. The first batch of the Chinese-built Aspide missiles using Italian-made kits rolled out in early 1989, but the supply of kits was cut off by the Italian government as a result of EU weapon sanction imposed on China in the aftermath of the June 1989 incident.

In the early 1990s the PLA decided to use the Aspide technology obtained through its earlier co-operation with Alenia to develop its own indigenous MRAAM designated PL-11. The missile uses a mono-pulse semi-active radar-homing seeker copied from the seeker of the Aspide missile. The first test fire of the missile was carried out on a J-8II fighter in 1992. The missile entered PLA service in the mid-1990s for test and evaluations. The final certification test of the missile took place in 2001, with four of five missiles fired hit the targets.

The PL-11 has a conventional aerodynamic layout which resembles that of the AIIM-7 Sparrow. The missile has four large clipped control surfaces located at the middle of the missile body, and four fixed smaller delta-shape stabilising fins at the missile tail. The missile also has two externally mounted wiring harness covers lasting from the missile nose to the aft edge of the main control surfaces.

Variants

PL-11: The basic variant based on the HQ-61C SAM and Aspide seeker technology.

PL-11A: The improved variant with greater range and more powerful warhead. The improved seek head requires the guidance of the fire-control radar of the carrier aircraft only during the final stage of its flight.

PL-11B: Also known as PL-11-AMR. This is an active radar-homing derivative of the PL-11A, with an AMR-1 active radar-homing seeker developed by the 607 Institute.

"Specifications"

Missile length: 3.89m
Missile diameter: 0.208m
Wingspan: 0.68m
Launch weight: 220kg
Warhead: HE fragmentation
Propulsion: Solid fuel
Maximum speed: Mach 4
Range: 40~75km
Guidance: Semi-active radar


NOW what do you say ?

 

[x_man]

if any how PAF can get 150 more (j-10s),
100 more (j-11bs), & very importantly 200 plus more THUNDERS, with all equiped with PL-12 , (Air-to-Air Missille's) & more availible BVR'S capabilities, surly its ready to take on , both fornts.
also included, S-300PMU,HQ-12 (KS-1) , HQ-9, HQ-2 Surface-to-Air Missile SystemS, i am 1000% sure that even USAF would be thinking twice, to even think some thing silly , about pakistan?


NOW what do you say ?

You have a pretty heavy wish list here...

Well, all I can say is best of luck with the list…

 

[batmannow]

You have a pretty heavy wish list here...

Well, all I can say is best of luck with the list…

x_man; sir
thanks at last you, did endorosed me!
i guss its , not my wish list but its , PAF's defence list, for comming 3 years, even half of them would be enough, for next time plus , its getteble because its from china not from US OF A?

 

[BATMAN]

I don't think any other nation will intervene..

In near future PAF may match evenly to IAF's numerical and qualitative superiority.
In such senario it will become impossible for indians to over run Pakistan in matter of weeks.
I suppose if not today than if in future india decides again to invade Pakistan than it will definately be having support from third country and our north is the most probable front.

 

[BATMAN]

x_man; sir
thanks at last you, did endorosed me!
i guss its , not my wish list but its , PAF's defence list, for comming 3 years, even half of them would be enough, for next time plus , its getteble because its from china not from US OF A?

It an't happening in 3 years time.
If budget being made available than 5 years is more realistic time frame for ur wish list. This is again my personal estimation.

 

[Firebird_80]

dear Firebird_80; sir
nice input but, i guss you forget the subject of thread, its not for any comparison between IAF & PAF, so plz come back to topic!
read the subject of thread & thn post.
thanks

yes i agree i am off the topic here .... it was just to drive my point that PAF will not be able to hold out except for first few hours of any multipronged attack. and that even IAF or any AC with array of airforces will not be able to do so either. inspite of that, some have claimed PAF may be able to hold out and perform still a bit longer ..... so threw in the comparision that is why had asked the moderators to bear with me

 

[Firebird_80]

In near future PAF may match evenly to IAF's numerical and qualitative superiority.
In such senario it will become impossible for indians to over run Pakistan in matter of weeks.
I suppose if not today than if in future india decides again to invade Pakistan than it will definately be having support from third country and our north is the most probable front.

i doubt very much. the fact that any army has to be supported by a sound economic base. its not long before china also tired of supplying weapons to pakistan. their only aim is to apply pressure on indian west so they are free to develop themselves econoically and militarily

pakistani economic condition at best is pathetic. added to it is a US $ 7.5 billion dollar IMF aid to tide over on short run. the situation is not likely to improve anytime further.

about procurements, the recent economic recession has had its impact on world and more so on export driven chinese economy immensely. being a closed communist regime, they may deny, but that is a fact. so freebies are difficult to be handed out (example is refusal to bail out pak economy) even india has been hit but since its a self consuming economy, the impact has not been too great except in IT and BPO industry. The economic viability of maintenance of armed forces have to be seen. I told you, majority of contributors here are indulging in rhetoric and jingoism. Reason based analysis is altogether missing.

X-man i agree in 65 you kicked ***** and hats off to PAF for that. In 71 it was not so. Things were changing but yes you contested air effectively although this time things were different. air supremacy was never achievable for india in those years. its only in 90s with air-land battle concept being re-discovered after gulf war I (it was originally authored in 30s by a German Military tactician i forget who) that indian philosophy changed and now we have more tech intensive ACs capable of extensive ops without limitation. Air dominance has been the big issue as Indian calculations do not allow for operations of more than 72-120 hours against Pakistan as that is the time frame before international pressure kicks in or GoP panics to use nukes.

 

[Firebird_80]

I don't think any other nation will intervene..

I agree. India will go it alone. Oh by the ways orders came yesterday to cancel leaves of all IA, IAF and IN personnel. Things are ready now the political decision is awaited.

 

[SherdiL!]

the best policy is to have faith in Allah and fight with the enemy should be our #1 concern not how many Aircraft we got

 

[Firebird_80]

something i found browsing


India's case gets stronger with Pak armyman's arrest-India-The Times of India

 

[Firebird_80]

the best policy is to have faith in Allah and fight with the enemy should be our #1 concern not how many Aircraft we got

my dear allah does not fight for anyone. he only in his wisdom gives you the courage to do so. even the wise one is unable to salvage stupidity. and there is a fine line between bravery and stupidity as x-man (being a fellow services man) can corroborate

 

[SherdiL!]

just have faith in Allah and we have to fight what we got dont have to worry about anything

 

[Firebird_80]

just have faith in Allah and we have to fight what we got dont have to worry about anything

yes you are right about that. have faith and face what has to be faced with courage. its the essence of all .... koran, geeta, buddhism, old and new testament ........ i agree