What has Democracy solve for India? Lesson for us.

[JanjaWeed]

The picture perfectly portrays what the writer is saying. More than the word "democracy" the writer's main focus is on the so-called torch-bearers" of democracy in India who are accumulating wealth in the name of people.

i never denied that fact that such things exist in india, so does in other parts of the world.. but it just makes me sick when people use those kind of images to prove their point!! it's just my personal view.. just gave me cringes when i saw that!!

 

[StingRoy]

Here's the problem:
Is taking the people's freedom of speech justified in light of drastic reduction in poverty?
Or does widespread poverty justify the right to freedom of speech?
I for one, side with the former:
Will parents worry about freedom of speech when they see their kids grow up handicapped due to malnutrition?
Will people worry about freedom of speech when their husbands die due to a power shortage at his hospital?
Will people care about freedom of speech when they don't even have flushable toilets or running water?
Will people worry about freedom of speech when they can't even afford most popular means (internet) to express themselves?

My friend I would like to invite you to India and go see for yourself how freedom of speech in a democracy is important for these people (people you mention in the above context). And btw how does authoritarian rule fix these problems?

The simple issue is that a developing nation has to have enough money to improve the lifestyles of its people. What improves the living standards of a society is a purely capitalist and economic question. Rights given by a democracy does not imply better living standards for its citizens, but hell yes it gives them the right to demand or protest the policies laid down by the govt for their own interest and well being.

At the end of the day it is I who decide what is best for me and my family and not the govt.

 

[Joe Shearer]

India has many talented people. Why out of a billion talented Indians, you guys chose an Italian lady?

Before I respond, I need to ask you: are you looking for an explanation or for a quick laugh and applause from the gallery? My response will depend on what you want.

Please feel free to answer as you wish; to me, both are legitimate standpoints.

 

[desioptimist]

In India, anybody can file a court case in the interest of public (PIL) and court will ask police to investigate(usually). If Arundhati did not say anything seditious, there is nothing to worry for her. As Joe pointed out, the govt decided not to act against her, but any individual has right to file court case.

I hope the court will throw this case to dust bin.

About democracy, India does not have any other alternative. We cannot work with any other form of govt, it will simply not work in India. Indira Gandhi tried for few years(emergency), could not manage it.

India being ruled by Army : No chance
Communists ruling India without elections: No chance

The only way an authoritarian regime can ever come here is : A wildly polular leader(part of a well organized party) becomes PM, undermines democracy, and seizes absolute power. But can he/she stay there long?

 

[gpit]

Ga?a sangha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Now go and suck up to westerns as if they are gonna ever accept you as one of their own.

^To whom it may concern.

Do you call that democracy?

No! That’s anarchy! Similar to Warring States in China (480 BC-221 BC).

No wonder…

 

[desioptimist]

India is a democracy not a meritocracy/technocracy.
I would not like it to be any other way.

 

[gpit]

Those who dont know about hinduism or wary of the concept of religion.Hinduism is not susceptible to criticism.

Criticism of Hinduism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As it accept criticism, we have eradicated the concept of sati completely and
heading towards removal of caste system, though it shaped over centuries and will take time to eradicate.

In urban india, you wont find caste subjugation, nor in south india(rural+urban) you find it derogatory. The main center of caste discrimination is in rural north india. Even you can find it among converted muslims of south asia.

"hinduism is mainly divided in two parts - 1. spiritual hinduism 2. ceremonial hinduism. In spiritual hinduism a lower caste man/woman can become a sage to preach the masses" - swami vivekananda.
e.g. Valmiki, Vyasa, Narada, Karna, Thiruvalluvar.

the problems which you are talking about is with ceremonial religion, that too is shrinking.

Only Caste sucks. It mandates that you are inferior to me and are my slave in this life...

 

[gpit]

No you are wrong ---- Sure it was 'grandgrandpa-->grandma-->papa-->widow of papa' but what is different and most important is how the respective heirs came into power in NK and India.

In NK it was a mere induction or coronation ceremony without anybody's permission.

But in India (as much as I hate it) the Congress came to power by securing the majority in the Parliament after elections in which the people gave their choice.

So your analogy is specious and completely off mark.

Actually, we outsiders find they are the same in lineage tree structure as DPRK.

May we call it nepotism?

Democracy? More like the Democracy of DPRK.

 

[gpit]

what have we achieved from democracy

1) we elect whom we want to and we throw them out when we want to

What a joke!

As mentioned earlier, you only elect grandpapa-papa-widow of papa etc.

In addition, remember about 40% of your parliament members are criminals:

a quick study of affidavits of 533 of the elected MPs by an NGO, Association for Democratic Reforms (ADR), showed that as many as 150 MPs have criminal charges against them, 73 of them facing serious charges. In contrast, the outgoing Lok Sabha elected in 2004 had 128 MPs with criminal charges, 55 of them with charges of serious nature. As many as 42 of the BJP’s 113 MPs have criminal charges against them, followed by Congress 41 and the Samajwadi Party and Shiv Sena eight each. The maximum criminal charges are against Vitthalbhai Hansrajbhai Radadiya of the Congress. The maximum number of serious IPC (Indian Penal Code) charges are against Jagdis Sharma of JD(U)) from Jehanabad, Bihar.

State wise, Uttar Pradesh tops the list for having elected 30 candidates with criminal charges to the Lok Sabha followed by Maharashtra (23), Bihar (17) and Gujarat and Andhra Pradesh (11 each). In contrast to the speculation that majority of the MPs in the new House are young, only 79 of them are below 40 while those in the age bracket of 41-55 are 236. Those below 70 are 190 while 37 MPS are more than 70 years in age.

Indian parliament blend with billionaires and criminals - GEO.tv

No, you don't have much choice but billionaires and criminals.

2) we protest whenever and wherever and by whatever means we want

Are you sure? Then explain to us the following:
India: Police Kill 4 Protesters http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/16/world/asia/16briefs-India.html

CBC News - World - Indian forces kill 13 in Kashmir protest

Police kill three protesters Police kill three protesters

3) our governmental decisons are not made by a single mans whimsical thought

OK, that’s perhaps why you decided to forward into Chinese territory in late 1950s.

4) we have a fair and open judicial process

Oh, yeah?

Worlds most Currupt Judicial System in INDIA Call for Justice

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Indian judiciary's crisis of credibility

5) our mediums of information sharing and communication is liberal

Your lying media are well-known throughout the world.

6) all relgions are free to practice whatever and where ever they want

In India, religious violence leaves long trail of refugee camps - CSMonitor.com

7) we can plan our family as we want

Resulting in 2 million children die each year. Two Million Children in India Die Because of Hunger

8) etc etc etc

Please no etcs anymore to spare yourself…and us.

 

[desioptimist]

Castism was there before democracy and not due to democracy.

Infact democracy undermines castism, empowers lower caste people.
Many of the political leaders ruling in India are there solely because they are from lower caste.

 

[CardSharp]

Castism was there before democracy and not due to democracy.

Infact democracy undermines castism, empowers lower caste people.
Many of the political leaders ruling in India are there solely because they are from lower caste.

The very fact that your government recognizes castes in politics is a stupid idea. It institutionalizes division and will make it that much harder for those on the bottom to get out from under.

It's also be nice if you got ride of newspaper single's section that divide base on caste.

 

[JanjaWeed]

The very fact that your government recognizes castes in politics is a stupid idea. It institutionalizes division and will make it that much harder for those on the bottom to get out from under.

It's also be nice if you got ride of newspaper single's section that divide base on caste.

you are right.. cast politics is played on those provinces which are considered backword. guess what.. those parties who played cast politics in one of those states bit the dust just couple of weeks ago. instead they overwhelmingly chose the incumbet party which stood for development, law n order, health & education. so it's a sign that people are moving away from those steoreotypical kind of politics.

 

[desioptimist]

I am bit skeptic, sadly caste is here to stay for quite long.
People use it as identity and collectively bargain on the basis of that.

To the original question: What has democracy solve for India, wrt caste, it has empowered the lower caste people.

 

[gpit]

People here are confusing messy democracy practice to the fact that democracy isn't helping India.

Our system isn't efficient so far because there never came a situation where our democracy was threatened by dictatorship or some foreign ideology .

One important fact to note:Efficient practice of democracy in the west is product of economic development.

Same applies for India.

Better stop being a democracy apologist.

To me, India does not possess the kind of social soil for western democracy to live healthily. The political system and social soil upon where the system grows just doesn’t fit. Your caste system is a stark example. It contradicts to the idea of democracy, but is part of your tradition/culture. Democracy is a tradition in US. It became a tradition in UK.

It takes long long time to change, if you persist your hope and tolerate your potential enemy to surpass your faster and sounder.

It is not the fault of the people of India.

In fact, the people of India never voted for adopting a democracy. It was handful elites of Republic of India founders, such as Gandhi, Nehru, etc, decided to copy the system over, because a) they believe democracy gave UK such a mighty that it conquered India so easily for so long, it must also give India the same power; b) they are all brain-washed by UK. In fact, I read some documents wrote by lords of UK explaining how mentally enslave Indians are more important than physically enslave them.

Have to agree that they are truly wise British! Just look at so many Indians praise UK’s enslaving over India, saying that British did a lot good things on the land of Bharat.

I met an Indian in US. He always says how bad India is and how good UK is that he never spent his vacation in India but UK. He worships UK in such a degree that one time he was caught by UK policeman while on vacation, as he was suspected as a terrorist. Later he was acquitted and he proudly hung the letter of acquittal (some kind of paper) on his office wall, telling us that he was not a terrorist and it was certified by the great British. WTF is that!

Mental slaves are very bad, like in caste system. They don’t have the capability of independent thinking…

The fact is, UK got strong not mainly because they were democratic, but rather because they were authoritarian + looting and pludging others to accumulate treasures. After that, they have the kind of material richness to found and support a healthy democracy.

One must look at the process to get to the results, not just the results only.

 

[desioptimist]

The very fact that your government recognizes castes in politics is a stupid idea. It institutionalizes division and will make it that much harder for those on the bottom to get out from under.

It's also be nice if you got ride of newspaper single's section that divide base on caste.

Govt recognizes caste because it wants positive discrimination in favour of the lower caste. Similar to supporting special minority rights (or special rights for aborigines in US). There are special quotas for lower castes in education and jobs, special laws for punishment to those who discriminate lower caste.

The implementation has not matched what govt wanted.
But the debate that "Govt should treat everybody equally, and no special provision for disadvantaged people" is a old one.

Regarding advts for matrimonials in newspapers, they are from individuals. Should govt stop them? I dont know how govt can do that.
The same matrimonial ads also specifie religion and preference for good looks.