What does Pakistan bring to the table on Kashmir, Siachen?

[livingdead]

India & Pakistan will both bring the regions of Kashmir under their control. It's not like India will bring East Punjab or Delhi & give it away.

As for the question what India will achieve...that answer i give in post #52. Read the bold part.

access to market is not good enough reason, because quid pro quo India will give access to her market too, which is much bigger.
We have perfect peace with pakistan now, there is nothing more peace to be achieved. We are not fighting any wars.

 

[joekrish]

India & Pakistan will both bring the regions of Kashmir under their control. It's not like India will bring East Punjab or Delhi & give it away.

As for the question what India will achieve...that answer i give in post #52. Read the bold part.





I can do better trolling then you & remain in stealth mode, but don't wanna ruin the thread.

I dont know what gave you the idea that I am trolliing, it was straight forward question and still remains one.

 

[Jade]

India & Pakistan will both bring the regions of Kashmir under their control. It's not like India will bring East Punjab or Delhi & give it away.

As for the question what India will achieve...that answer i give in post #52. Read the bold part.





I can do better trolling then you & remain in stealth mode, but don't wanna ruin the thread.

You seem not to understand the question. I repeat...what does Pakistan bring to the table?

 

[livingdead]

Best solution would be that India can continue holding Ladakh and Jammu. While Pakistan can be given the valley part which is the most anti-India region of Kashmir. In return we can accept Indian sovereignty on Ladakh and Jammu and LOC can be turned into IB. Or else like today you can continue lame as$ "Kashmir is India's integral part" rant and in return we can give you confusion, destabilization, deaths and threat of war. We might not war but then we are responsible for act of any jihaidi if India continues with its ignorant attitude.

Which is why it is imperative that India works in balochistan so that removal of threat from kashmir is not a bargaining chip.
Carrots for carrots and sticks for sticks on bargaining table.

Indians should not be running after this mirage of peace. It will come to us, if we wait long enough. There is no other way.

How about we dont destabilize your country, and you give use control of rest of kashmir? Looks like a good deal for you.

 

[Areesh]

Which is why it is imperative that India works in balochistan so that removal of threat from kashmir is not a bargaining chip.
Carrots for carrots and sticks for sticks.

Since if we go that way then we are in a better position to create trouble in IOK than India can ever in Balochistan. History is a testimony to it. You might create problems to other countries like Iran too if you continue promoting terror in Balochistan. It would be like giving whole salad for one carrot for Pakistan.

 

[livingdead]

Since if we go that way then we are in a better position to create trouble in IOK than India can ever in Balochistan. History is a testimony to it. You might create problems to other countries like Iran too if you continue promoting terror in Balochistan. It would be like giving whole salad for one carrot for Pakistan.

I agree, you can cause more trouble in kashmir than we can do in balochistan, but I dont think we can ever agree your non interference or peace as a bargain.
Like I said, we are already in peace with you, we already decided that this is how 'peace' looks like. There is nothing more peace to be achieved.
As to going back to 90s, we can always 'plead' to pakistan that it is not in her best interest (using a mix of coersion, action intelligence agencies, and diplomacy)

 

[Jade]

Best solution would be that India can continue holding Ladakh and Jammu. While Pakistan can be given the valley part which is the most anti-India region of Kashmir. In return we can accept Indian sovereignty on Ladakh and Jammu and LOC can be turned into IB. Or else like today you can continue lame as$ "Kashmir is India's integral part" rant and in return we can give you confusion, destabilization, deaths and threat of war. We might not war but then we are responsible for act of any jihaidi if India continues with its ignorant attitude.

That is good that you agree that Pakistan doesn't have anything to bring on the table.

As on threatening India, it didn't worked in the last 70 years and I doubt it will work in future.

 

[Areesh]

That is good that you agree that Pakistan doesn't have anything to bring on the table.

As on threatening India, it didn't worked in the last 70 years and I doubt it will work in future.

I never threatened anyone. I just said that if Kashmir isn't resolved due to Indian behavior and smme terrorist or militant or jihadi group does something in Kashmir or in India then I don't think Pakistani govt or state should be held responsible for it. It might be condemnable but due to the major issues aren't resolved so there is always a possibility for such incidents.

I agree, you can cause more trouble in kashmir than we can do in balochistan, but I dont think we can ever agree your non interference or peace as a bargain.
Like I said, we are already in peace with you, we already decided that this is how 'peace' looks like. There is nothing more peace to be achieved.
As to going back to 90s, we can always 'plead' to pakistan that it is not in her best interest (using a mix of coersion, action intelligence agencies, and diplomacy)

Fine. Then you should be fine with any militant or terror activity in Kashmir or in India. After all it is part and parcel of the "peace" that your country is comfortable with.

 

[illusion8]

I never threatened anyone. I just said that if Kashmir isn't resolved due to Indian behavior and smme terrorist or militant or jihadi group does something in Kashmir or in India then I don't think Pakistani govt or state should be held responsible for it. It might be condemnable but due to the major issues aren't resolved so there is always a possibility for such incidents.

The resolution of Kashmir was right there in 1947 - the tribal attack was what changed the whole dynamics, again Mushy and Vajpayee were close to signing a solution then Kargil changed that - so Indian behaviour has nothing to do with it. Jihadi and terrorist attacks is what's delaying any kind of settlement of Kashmir. Once you start talking of a fourth war I don't think anyone else in our land would want to talk of any resolution because that would be a sign of weakness against am emancipated enemy.

 

[Areesh]

The resolution of Kashmir was right there in 1947 - the tribal attack was what changed the whole dynamics, again Mushy and Vajpayee were close to signing a solution then Kargil changed that - so Indian behaviour has nothing to do with it. Jihadi and terrorist attacks is what's delaying any kind of settlement of Kashmir. Once you start talking of a fourth war I don't think anyone else in our land would want to talk of any resolution because that would be a sign of weakness against am emancipated enemy.

India started meddling before the tribal attack. Tribal attack came much later. There was Siachen before Kargil. Now you want to repeal article 370. Indian attitude is the biggest issue in Kashmir's resolution. Leave complex issue like Kashmir you guys aren't even interested in solving much minor issues like Sir creek. Sir creek hasn't anything to do with Kashmir or Kargil or tribal attack. It is your attitude which is the biggest problem not Kashmir or Siachen.

 

[Jade]

I never threatened anyone. I just said that if Kashmir isn't resolved due to Indian behavior and smme terrorist or militant or jihadi group does something in Kashmir or in India then I don't think Pakistani govt or state should be held responsible for it. It might be condemnable but due to the major issues aren't resolved so there is always a possibility for such incidents.



Fine. Then you should be fine with any militant or terror activity in Kashmir or in India. After all it is part and parcel of the "peace" that your country is comfortable with.

Terrorism is never a solution for peace. You know what happened after 26/11. 5 years have passed since the incidence and still that incidence is keeping any credible Indo-Pak talks from happening. No country would bow before terrorism, that would be beneath any nation. India is no exception.

In future, any such incidence emanating from Pakistan will make Pakistan directly responsible for that event and Pakistan an international pariah.

 

[illusion8]

India started meddling before the tribal attack. Tribal attack came much later. There was Siachen before Kargil. Now you want to repeal article 370. Indian attitude is the biggest issue in Kashmir's resolution. Leave complex issue like Kashmir you guys aren't even interested in solving much minor issues like Sir creek. Sir creek hasn't anything to do with Kashmir or Kargil or tribal attack. It is your attitude which is the biggest problem not Kashmir or Siachen.

Meddling before the tribals attacked - nothing of that sort happened?

Siachen - Indian troops predicated Pakistani troops moving to take over Siachen and moved in before them - Kargil hilltops are meant to be vacated during winter and are taken over after winter - First Pakistan outrightly refused that it was their troops then they reluctantly agreed.

Article 370 to be repealed? did the GOI say something on those lines? Modi said it and its his personal opinion.

Mumbai terror attack case is a much easier conflict than Sir Creek that could have been done 3-4 years ago. Sir Creek and Kashmir issue were almost agreed on and was to be signed on when Kargil and the during Mushy's time the change in GOP happened and Mushy fled the country.

See, we can argue back and forth - you have your justifications on flimsy grounds and we have ours. What we have seen over the years any movement towards dialogues or peace causes a major terrorist attack or infiltration into India.

Pakistan lacks the central command or decision making body - Benezir, Mushy, Sharif, Zardari etc etc don't remain in place or power for long to make any difference.

 

[jaunty]

If Pakistan can give up its nuclear power ambitions and gets rid of its arsenal

That is highly unrealistic and they don't just have an ambition, they are already a nuclear power.

 

[A.Rafay]

We will bring gun to the table!

 

[jaunty]

It is in Pakistan's short as well as long term interest to solve the Kashmir issue. India can play the waiting game longer than them and the Indian govt is more than happy to maintain the status quo. The only solution which might be acceptable to GoI is accepting the LOC as the international border and recognizing present ground positions in Siachen and drawing the IB accordingly. Even this will need some ground work but I think they will be able to convince the Indian public on this.