What does Pakistan bring to the table on Kashmir, Siachen?

[KRAIT]

I have seen some good posts by posters from both sides. kindly don't ruin this thread.

@ Topic

I think India and Pakistan should take each other's problems seriously and objections both have.

Both countries will pay heavily in future due to military presence at Siachen.

Joint control of Dams that are built on rivers in J&K region. Proportional distribution.

Developing economic zone in our controlled regions. Keeping LOC as International border.

Let this run for at least one generation. As time passes by, economic rise takes place, people gets settled, infrastructure develop then only we should re think about what to do next.

Most important, controlling Hawkish elements on both sides.

Step by step approach.

Zero-Sum game is not a solution as both nations are too strong and nuclear powers.

Honestly, transit facility do more good to Pakistan than to India. First, Pakistan would earn fat check for its services, second Pakistan's volatile borders and country at large will get infinitely stable because of immense jobs that are created as a result of this two way trade. In short Pakistan will become a trading hub for in this region like Singapore or HK for far east. In contrast, the benefits accrued to India are some savings.
I know you are a sane member here, Why don't you also suggest a solution on Kashmir that is acceptable to India too.

India will get market of 180 million. A market of this same hub of economically improved people, not just in this region but in rest of Pakistan, to sell our growing automobile, telecom etc. sectors.

India will need immense resources whether it is minerals of Afghanistan and also that are in abundance in Pakistan and MOST IMPORTANTLY, energy resources of Central Asia which right now only China is getting.

Stability will also attract more investors.

Now you can see, how much it can help India to reach our goals of eliminating our problems.

We think about few millions of Kashmirs, that's fine but we forget hundreds of millions we can help if we work together.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Pakistan can give India the best & complete direct access to central Asia, Afghanistan, Iran in all road, rail, air & sea but its a give & take world you need access we will give you that but we also need for you to solve the Kashmir Issue that Pakistan have with India so lets solve the Kashmir issue & India gets the best of transit facilities, direct access to Afghanistan, CAR regions, Iran , the shorter Arabian sea route through Pakistan
direct rail, road access from literally every part of India, gas stations, hotels, dry ports, storage facilities, on the highways for your exports
heck you can even ship your goods directly from your factories to the central Asian republics via Rail & road going through Pakistan, so see we have bought quite a good deal for you on the table our requirement is just one which is lets solve the Kashmir issue on the table too
peace

All of those are great ideas..........................but by themselves.
If you view them in today's scenario of Pakistan's internal situation; none of them can be executed conclusively by GoP. The GoP has no traction even to execute its own policies vis-a-vis USA and NATO. So how will it hope to do that with India?
Even the solution that @farhan_9909 proposed above (a very sensible one at that) will not find takers in Pakistan; given that the "rhetoric" has been ratcheted upto stratospheric heights.

 

[genmirajborgza786]

I completely agree with you...No question...But what is the kashmir resolution you want?
Let us talk Practical situation rather than idealism.



So best solution is that India back out from Siachen and once for all let us close the Kashmir chapter...So that both nation and its political party can declare that they get something in return.
Out of t

how about add some small adjustments along with the above offer, that would be nice bro, I am not an idealist & neither do I hop on unrealistic approach like u.n resolutions & getting whole of J&K, I am a realist & approach a matter based on ground realities , we have three points of disputes Kashmir valley & siachen in j.k & sir creek in gujrat & an over all accepted solutions in this three point
can work well so basically in jk turning the LOC in to an IB but with some compromise from your side

Well what you suggests might sound lucrative but its not feasible, what if someone like Imran Khan gets up tomorrow and blocks the above mentioned access. India can't afford to be the whelms of some terrorists sympathizers. And moreover what Pakistan would ask for in concrete terms for such an access.

the person protesting will be jailed as it will be part of a negotiated settlement authenticated by the govt & army of Pakistan & India with guarantees from the U.S, U.N E.U

 

[KRAIT]

Pakistan can get great help from Indian educational and scientific centers, research facilities, Space program, IT and automobile sector. Domestic industries will rise.

Pakistan will get a next door consumer of its immense resources of Copper, Natural Gas and Coal.

Transportation cost will bring down the prices of raw material Indian industries require which will help in making us cheaper products so that we can compete with rest of the world.

 

[Jade]

I have seen some good posts by posters from both sides. kindly don't ruin this thread.

@ Topic

I think India and Pakistan should take each other's problems seriously and objections both have.

Both countries will pay heavily in future due to military presence at Siachen.

Joint control of Dams that are built on rivers in J&K region. Proportional distribution.

Developing economic zone in our controlled regions. Keeping LOC as International border.

Let this run for at least one generation. As time passes by, economic rise takes place, people gets settled, infrastructure develop then only we should re think about what to do next.

Most important, controlling Hawkish elements on both sides.

Step by step approach.

Zero-Sum game is not a solution as both nations are too strong and nuclear powers.

India will get market of 180 million. A market of this same hub of economically improved people, not just in this region but in rest of Pakistan, to sell our growing automobile, telecom etc. sectors.

India will need immense resources whether it is minerals of Afghanistan and also that are in abundance in Pakistan and MOST IMPORTANTLY, energy resources of Central Asia which right now only China is getting.

It is not like India would get Pakistan's market on platter. If Pakistan gets stable and peaceful there will be immense interest from other counties too to sell their products, after all it a 180 m market. India will be one of the player competing in this market. It is similar to Indian companies competing with western companies in other markets.

Anyway, I don't consider to be a strategic benefit for India.

 

[Kaniska]

how about add some small adjustments along with the above offer, that would be nice bro, I am not an idealist & neither do I hop on unrealistic approach like u.n resolutions & getting whole of J&K, I am a realist & approach a matter based on ground realities , we have three points of disputes Kashmir valley & siachen in j.k & sir creek in gujrat & an over all accepted solutions in this three point
can work well so basically in jk turning the LOC in to an IB but with some compromise from your side

Bro...spot on...see If Kashmir issue is settled with cooperation from Pakistan ...then trust me...India can compensate with compromising on your river water issue, Sir Creek and other issues can be resolved...Becuase smaller issues are more related to the mutual trust....For example....as such if you see there is nothing in Siachen....as long as India and Pakistan trust each other and they are friends...But the moment that trust breaks down...Siachen is critical for India and Pakistan too..

Pakistan has to understand, that J&K epitomizes the mirror and test of India's policy of democracy and secularism...The moment Pakistan accommodate India's position to some extent ...India can accomdate more of Pakistan issue in other areas too.

 

[livingdead]

Well Pakistan should offer a solution to end the seperatist movement in IOK.rather work with india on this.

In return the siachen should be demilitarized aswell as to find the solution for a possible solution of Kashmir problem so that the LOC could be turned into international border with only few changes

is not separatist movement home grown, and reflect their own wish to be independent. How can pakistan possibly stop it, other than ending their claim on the land.
Kashmiris will still continue to fight.

 

[KRAIT]

It is not like India would get Pakistan's market on platter. If Pakistan gets stable and peaceful there will be immense interest from other counties too to sell their products, after all it a 180 m market. India will be one of the player competing in this market. It is similar to Indian companies competing with western companies in other markets.
Anyway, I don't consider to be a strategic benefit for India.

Read my next post.

China is already getting its energy from CAR by laying down gas pipelines. And people say land route is not good ?

Indian companies will have benefit because Indian product will cost less compared to others since transportation cost will be less.

I can go on and on.

 

[Bang Galore]

how about add some small adjustments along with the above offer, that would be nice bro, I am not an idealist & neither do I hop on unrealistic approach like u.n resolutions & getting whole of J&K, I am a realist & approach a matter based on ground realities , we have three points of disputes Kashmir valley & siachen in j.k & sir creek in gujrat & an over all accepted solutions in this three point
can work well so basically in jk turning the LOC in to an IB but with some compromise from your side


the person protesting will be jailed as it will be part of a negotiated settlement authenticated by the govt & army of Pakistan & India with guarantees from the U.S, U.N E.U

Compromises can be considered depending on what they are & ones that do not include heavily populated areas. The key still, is what will Pakistan offer in return?

 

[nForce]

Well Pakistan should offer a solution to end the seperatist movement in IOK.rather work with india on this.

In return the siachen should be demilitarized aswell as to find the solution for a possible solution of Kashmir problem so that the LOC could be turned into international border with only few changes

A very honest and honourable idea indeed.
But just think about it for a second.This argument will not stand at diplomatic level.
What will Pakistan say if they come to the discussion table with India ?
We will stop pushing terrorists into Indian Kashmir if you demilitarize Siachen ? That will be tantamount to officially accepting that Pakistan actively supports the separatist movement(which somehow happens but Pakistan never officially accepts).

But I think a common agreement and joint venture on anti-terrorist campaign like what India did with Bhutan,Mayanmar and Bangladesh will definitely prove to be a huge confidence building measure.
India has been undergoing great socio-economic development for more than two decades now and a greater degree of co-operation and trust-factor will surely help to bring peace and prosperity to the region.It will take time, of course, but then, there is no other way.

 

[Contrarian]

Pakistan can get great help from Indian educational and scientific centers, research facilities, Space program, IT and automobile sector. Domestic industries will rise.

Pakistan will get a next door consumer of its immense resources of Copper, Natural Gas and Coal.

Transportation cost will bring down the prices of raw material Indian industries require which will help in making us cheaper products so that we can compete with rest of the world.

Why are you confusing market access to Pakistan as something to be offered in exchange for a deal?

We are already going to get market access to Pakistan. Infact we already have access to a majority of Pakistani market since we shifted from the positive list to the negative list.
Trade with Pakistan is something that is going to happen in any case regardless of Kashmir.

 

[KRAIT]

is not separatist movement home grown, and reflect their own wish to be independent. How can pakistan possibly stop it, other than ending their claim on the land.
Kashmiris will still continue to fight.

No buddy. As economic progress is made, discontent will decrease. Given the choice of good healthy living of a person and his family and brighter future, a person will happily accept the change.

Separatist movement will loose support of common man. Seriously speaking, many people in India and Pakistan and even in Kashmir as sick of this conflict.

Especially me. Our economy could have been around $ 3 to $ 6 trillion if both nations would have made some good choices.

Just imagine 1998 nuclear tests and the sanctions pushed us so far back.

West don't want Indo-Pak conflict to resolve as this will create a worth adversary or competitor to
them.

SCO will become a potent organization against NATO, which is not right now because India and Pakistan can't be permanent member until we resolve our issues.

 

[MilSpec]

How about We demilitarize siachin, for mutual understanding of unilateral action against terror camps...
Jokes apart, there are few avenues to give up any location of strategic value...

the question remains is how else can we consolidate better living conditions/acclimatization, automated defensive turret stations and power line connections to forward posts in Siachen...

 

[KRAIT]

Why are you confusing market access to Pakistan as something to be offered in exchange for a deal?
We are already going to get market access to Pakistan. Infact we already have access to a majority of Pakistani market since we shifted from the positive list to the negative list.
Trade with Pakistan is something that is going to happen in any case regardless of Kashmir.

First it is nothing compared to what it can be. We can get access to Iran market too. We can set up industries with Pakistan in their country to sell product further East using Pakistani resources.

Just don't think of 180 million market, think bigger. Think about other countries nearby. You can skip Afghanistan if you want.

 

[Jade]

Read my next post.

China is already getting its energy from CAR by laying down gas pipelines. And people say land route is not good ?

Indian companies will have benefit because Indian product will cost less compared to others since transportation cost will be less.

I can go on and on.

All I am saying is competition is a tricky business. Costs are just one part of this whole competitive dynamics. The benefits that India would accrue from getting access to Pakistan's market may be transient. Then there is local businesses learning from other players because of improved competitive environment and offering products at competitive pricing.