What do Urdu Speakers Want?

[Omar1984]

I agree with your urdu speaking friend
I also have many relatives living in India and I don't like people abusing every single Indian in the world
i would like to visit india but that does not mean's that i am less Pakistani
yes many people of my family were also killed during the partition
but i want friendly relations between Pakistan and India

i don't want people to label me as an Indian
many people have called me "sala hindustani" many times

Friendly relations yes, but I dont want a confederation.


I think most Urdu speakers dont want any confederation with India just 2 friendly separate sovereign countries like rest of Pakistanis want. Right?

 

[shuakataftab]

one more thing who called you MOHAJIRS??? you yourself...alot of people came over & settled into punjab no one ever called them mohajir....why not...because the answer is simple you called yourself that!!!! your leader needed votes so he started an ETHNIC DIVIDE!!

Those who settled in Punjab were mostly from Indian part of Punjab they used to speak the same language they had the same culture
on the other hand those who where settled mostly in Karachi , Hyderabad mirpurkhas and sukkhur found it difficult to mix up with the sindhi population because our language and and culture were different

 

[BelligerentPacifist]

One, Urdu-speaking isn't an ethnicity. But I totally understand what this means in Pakistan: non-Punjabi-speaking people that migrated from India in '47 and their progeny.

Two, your one friend speaks on behalf of one person-himself, and you'd need to expand the sample-size before you could attest, voila this is what the Urduphones want.

That said, the questions are very valid, and I'd be glad to answer them from as general a perspective as possible for me.

Let's begin. There are a lot of things that the Urduphones want:

1 - We want NEVER to be referred to as Indian or Indian immigrants. We are the original Pakistanis, infact our grandparents were, they fought for the country and didn't get it just because their town happenned to fall this side of the divide.

1's corollary: We want not to be considered lesser Pakistanis ("Oh them! They aren't sons of the soil") or mistrusted and called ghaddaaraan just because we're from another region or because Altaf moron happens to be Urdu-speaking.

Good thing is, I've met with many Pakistanis of many different backgrounds and I'm happy to report that the ratio of patriotic Pakistanis from Urdu-speaking people is higher than any other, except maybe Central-Punjabis.




2 - We want not to be sidelined from the nation's fate and be given a fair chance in jobs. Nowadays it is quasi impossible for one of us to get a job with the state, or to get a promotion if you do have the job. I think the problem might lie with the baraadari and qabiila connections that are essential in this society to take you through, which we lack.



3 - We especially wish to be considered equal citizens in Sindh. Do you really think we can't see through how quotas in allocation of resources and jobs are kept away from "Urban" Sindh which happens to comprise the only two cities with major Urdu-speaking populations? Come on Central and Upper Sindhis, we're better integrated than yourself with the diverse people of Lower Sindh-the coastal Baloch, the Kachhis, the various Gujarati-ish people like Memons, Khojas, MaarwaaRiis and the like. We could be much better integrated within the entirety of Sindh were it not for politicians esp. Mr. Zia and later his pupil NS driving a rift between the ethnicities of the province just to break the vote-bank of the PPP.

You don't need to Sindhi-ize us (ours is the only province that makes teaching of a provincial language mandatory to all backgrounds of school-children, which is a good thing but for the motive), cultural diversity already exists in Sindh, we're just adding to it, not taking anything away from your culture. Tell you the truth, we've already absorbed quite a bit of yours and won't now fit in with the people from the cities our grands came from.

But the Urduphones too need to understand that the much-misunderstood man G.M. Syed wasn't against Urdu-speakers or the Urdu language, at least initially. It was him who paved the way for all those homeless migrants in his home-province, and even gave the nation its first capital. What his problem was that he was totally against landlords, who being always in power demonized him as a separatist. When the founders of your country begin saying they and their followers/clans/tribes/ethnicities are better off without their country, there's a problem with how the country is being run.





4 - We would (let me honestly say "I would") like other Pakistanis to stick with the idea of Pakistan and not be swayed by any clarion call of ethnic-nationalism. I often hear 'Intellectuals' from other parts of Pakistan say "we're the same culture. The border is just a line". Punjabis and Sindhis both accociate this way with India and Pukhtoons with Afghanistan. 'World Punjabi / World Sindhi conferences' aren't fooling anyone. What's 'world' about it. Just be honest and say "Indo-Pak P/S conf." Indians are constantly pulling us under these banners and we're getting fooled en masse. So what if the 'culture' is the same. North and South Korea's cultures are the same too. I don't see them selling out their country to serve their bretheren across the border. So what too if the tribes/families/ethnicities are the same. I have relatives in the U.P.. I've never known how many or in what relationship with me, neither has my family. They're Indians and they chose a different path. To be frank, I think we've preserved our culture better in Pakistan since I heard that our Indian kin now speak Bambaya Hindi and have totally lost touch with Lakhnavi aadaab.





5 - We want Pakistan to prosper and for it to extricate it from the system of waderas and landlords that know nothing but making others subservient and making a quick corrupt buck out of their seat.

Well, that's about all I could think about what Urdu-apeakers would want that other Pakistanis won't. Apart from this, there're the aspirations of any average Pakistani - they want power and water to 'sometimes' be made available to them, they want to not to be blown to bits on the road by the TTP etc etc.

Hope people could think and not just emotionally react to whatever I've written in this post. I've named names and pointed fingers. But at least I've been honest and I'd like you to respect that.

BP

 

[Zob]

@shaukataftab

my friend why did you only reply to the point you choose to reply to....what about everything else i said??

and i think in the 70s URDU was declared the national language....so if URDU speaking people were being prosecuted...then why choose urdu...why not BENGALI,SINDHI,PASHTOO,PUNJABI,BALOCHI as the national language??


i don't understand how you found it hard to adjust?? when the language you spoke was the national language....secnondly NO sir alot of people who settled in punjab did not migrate from parts of punjab....i know quiet alot of people who moved to lahore from modern day mumbai.....

like i said brother don't listen to the BRITISH JOKER....all his claims are false!!

 

[Kasrkin]

'Urdu Speaking' is an acceptable term since many people who moved from India don't like the term Mohajir. Furthermore the way people like Altaf Hussain have used the term has left many Urdu Speaking people with a sense of shame and don't wish to identify with his ethnic ideology. Now these so called 'Urdu Speaking' people are Pakistanis and many of them left everything they had including family members for Pakistan. This is something appreciated by Pakistanis all over the country and in my experience 'Urdu Speaking' people are held in high esteem.

Now personally, from what I’ve seen some self-righteous and utterly retarded Pakistanis are given to indulge in this ‘blasphemous’ talk of ‘we should have stayed with the Indians’ but they are a very small minority and are not restricted to the ‘Urdu Speaking’ communities. Actually one lady I heard these views from happened to be from a Punjabi background…

I would say that these ‘what do Urdu Speaking people want' sort of threads are pointless. No offense to Omar1984 who I’m sure just got a little worried by his friend and was interested to hear from us. But this thread might suggest that ‘Urdu Speaking’ folk have some issues with Pakistan or that they feel downtrodden or something, which is just not true. I myself as part Urdu Speaking can attest that there is no such thing. We shouldn’t be quick to judge the whole community based on the actions of a few, I can tell you that Urdu Speaking folk have integrated and acquainted themselves with Pakistan well enough. We’ve come a long with from those days of refugee and ethnic strife, something the Pakistan-moaners amongst us prefer to ignore.

 

[shuakataftab]

Because of people like altaf our people got their rights
Back in 1970's people used to think as we were martians or something and many urdu speaking people were unable to get jobs even if they were well qualified

ok and what makes you say before that the urdu speaking people didn't have jobs??? WAHEED MURAD was a big hero and he had migrated from india if i am not wrong? and ALTAF came in late 80's under the banner of ZIA-UL-HAQ.....


NAZIA HASSAN,LIQAUAT ALI KHAN,JAVED MIADAD,PARVEEN SHAQIR....they were urdu speaking and had JOBS before your ALTAF BHAI came my friend....

none of my URDU-SPEAKING brothers was ever neglected!!! stop listening to what ALTAF BHAI says he is lying he is making a divide amongst us!!

and one last name i forgot to mention PERVAZ MUSHARRAF...now he is an urdu speaking man who ofcourse got in to the military and rose up the ranks...now if he rose up the ranks meant there was no discrimination against him...was there??

Try fetching some old newspapers back in ayub khan's era they clearly stated in advertisements in government jobs "people having domicile form karachi or hyderabad please dont try to apply for this job"

What happened in karachi during Fatima jinnah's elections

The Quota System of 1973
If the quota system was such a wonderful thing for the rural population of Pakistan, then it should have been introduced everywhere. Why has it been only in Sindh? Don’t other people in Pakistan have the same problems vis-a-vis urban vs. rural?

Sindhi vs urdu language riots 1971 ??

Pervaiz Musharraf was made the chief of the army staff because nawaz sharif thought that he will be a weak general and will not be any threat to him because he was not from any punjabi army family
*peace*

 

[Omar1984]

'Urdu Speaking' is an acceptable term since many people who moved from India don't like the term Mohajir. Furthermore the way people like Altaf Hussain have used the term has left many Urdu Speaking people with a sense of shame and don't wish to identify with his ethnic ideology. Now these so called 'Urdu Speaking' people are Pakistanis and many of them left everything they had including family members for Pakistan. This is something appreciated by Pakistanis all over the country and in my experience 'Urdu Speaking' people are held in high esteem.

Now personally, from what I’ve seen some self-righteous and utterly retarded Pakistanis are given to indulge in this ‘blasphemous’ talk of ‘we should have stayed with the Indians’ but they are a very small minority and are not restricted to the ‘Urdu Speaking’ communities. Actually one lady I heard these views from happened to be from a Punjabi background…

I would say that these ‘what do Urdu Speaking people want' sort of threads are pointless. No offensive to Omar1984 who I’m sure just got a little worried by his friend and was interested to hear from us. But this thread might suggest that ‘Urdu Speaking’ folk have some issues with Pakistan or that they feel downtrodden or something, which is just not true. I myself as part Urdu Speaking can attest that there is no such thing. We shouldn’t be quick to judge the whole community based on the actions of a few, I can tell you that Urdu Speaking folk have integrated and acquainted themselves with Pakistan well enough. We’ve come a long with from those days of refugee and ethnic strife, something the Pakistan-moaners amongst us prefer to ignore.

Thank you for the comment. The purpose for me opening this thread is to hear from the community whose parents/grandparents risked their lives for Pakistan. I have lots of respect for Urdu speakers and I know they are patriotic Pakistani. The argument I had with my friend over this topic got me agitated so I opened this thread to hear thoughts from members with a similar family history as him. I know him and Altaf Hussein are a very very small minority and they dont represent the entire community.

Moderators can close this thread if they find it pointless.

 

[qsaark]

The Quota System of 1973
If the quota system was such a wonderful thing for the rural population of Pakistan, then it should have been introduced everywhere. Why has it been only in Sindh? Don’t other people in Pakistan have the same problems vis-a-vis urban vs. rural?

Quota system is undoubtedly unfair, and it is not only in Sindh, but also in Balochistan and in its worst form. I don't know about Punjab and NWFP though. But allow me to add this that not one person I have met in my life whether Mohajir, Baloch, Sindhi, Punjabi or Pathan, who worked hard and did not achieve his goal. A hardworking, committed and goal oriented person always wins against all the odds. Rest is all blame game, and an attempt to hide one’s shortcomings.

 

[Zob]

1 - We want NEVER to be referred to as Indian or Indian immigrants. We are the original Pakistanis, infact our grandparents were, they fought for the country and didn't get it just because their town happenned to fall this side of the divide.

ok my friend who started referring to you as MOHAJIR or URDU SPEAKING....this thing didn't exsist till you formed MQM...a.k.a MOHAJIR QAUMI MOVEMENT!!! you gave yourself a name and then said don't call us that....


2 - We want not to be sidelined from the nation's fate and be given a fair chance in jobs. Nowadays it is quasi impossible for one of us to get a job with the state, or to get a promotion if you do have the job. I think the problem might lie with the baraadari and qabiila connections that are essential in this society to take you through, which we lack.

like i said brother LIAQUAT ALI KHAN,FATIMA SURIYA BHAJIYA,JAVED MIADAD & MUSHRAAF....where is the side lining of URDU SPEAKING people.... and on top of it all you have your language as the national language....HELL I should feel sidelined now!!!

3 - We especially wish to be considered equal citizens in Sindh. Do you really think we can't see through how quotas in allocation of resources and jobs are kept away from "Urban" Sindh which happens to comprise the only two cities with major Urdu-speaking populations? Come on Central and Upper Sindhis, we're better integrated than yourself with the diverse people of Lower Sindh-the coastal Baloch, the Kachhis, the various Gujarati-ish people like Memons, Khojas, MaarwaaRiis and the like. We could be much better integrated within the entirety of Sindh were it not for politicians esp. Mr. Zia and later his pupil NS driving a rift between the ethnicities of the province just to break the vote-bank of the PPP.

well we are far from equality in any province but i guess the only province that has some sort of EQUALITY is the province of SINDH....KARACHI is totally ruled by MQM which started off as a party for the URDU SPEAKING people....so i guess not the URDU SPEAKING but the other provinces people should be complaining like the BALOCHIS...no no infact the PATHANS settled in BALOCHISTAN should complain that give us equal right... or the SERAIKIS in PUNJAB.....

sindh by far out of the lot is a very fair province...and all the problems that the urdu speaking have well the SCRIPT comes from LONDON....



4 - We would (let me honestly say "I would") like other Pakistanis to stick with the idea of Pakistan and not be swayed by any clarion call of ethnic-nationalism. I often hear 'Intellectuals' from other parts of Pakistan say "we're the same culture. The border is just a line". Punjabis and Sindhis both accociate this way with India and Pukhtoons with Afghanistan. 'World Punjabi / World Sindhi conferences' aren't fooling anyone. What's 'world' about it. Just be honest and say "Indo-Pak P/S conf." Indians are constantly pulling us under these banners and we're getting fooled en masse. So what if the 'culture' is the same. North and South Korea's cultures are the same too. I don't see them selling out their country to serve their bretheren across the border. So what too if the tribes/families/ethnicities are the same. I have relatives in the U.P.. I've never known how many or in what relationship with me, neither has my family. They're Indians and they chose a different path. To be frank, I think we've preserved our culture better in Pakistan since I heard that our Indian kin now speak Bambaya Hindi and have totally lost touch with Lakhnavi aadaab.

ok well i don't know who wants to sell of their country and think that both punjabs are equal or that afghnistan and NWFP are equal again i guess these are just claims.....as for lukhnow adaab....well great keep it up...i wish we have more people who are good in urdu and the langauge as a whole can progress further and develop.....

however what i feel is that in karachi the urdu is daily becoming BOLLYWOOD type of urdu and alot of US are using words such as PARIVAAR....and god knows what an this is a fault by everyone


5 - We want Pakistan to prosper and for it to extricate it from the system of waderas and landlords that know nothing but making others subservient and making a quick corrupt buck out of their seat.

agree with you 100% on this however having said that i don't want to take away the power from WADEERAS,CHAUDRYS KHANS & give it to BHAI......a bhai who sits in BRITIAN and has a nationality and uses his PHONE to dictate our FATE!!!

 

[shuakataftab]

@shaukataftab

my friend why did you only reply to the point you choose to reply to....what about everything else i said??

and i think in the 70s URDU was declared the national language....so if URDU speaking people were being prosecuted...then why choose urdu...why not BENGALI,SINDHI,PASHTOO,PUNJABI,BALOCHI as the national language??


i don't understand how you found it hard to adjust?? when the language you spoke was the national language....secnondly NO sir alot of people who settled in punjab did not migrate from parts of punjab....i know quiet alot of people who moved to lahore from modern day mumbai.....

like i said brother don't listen to the BRITISH JOKER....all his claims are false!!

I just replied to your other post
My internet connection is running very slow today

 

[owais.usmani]

Ok, so I just had a long talk with an Urdu speaking friend of mine and he said he loves Pakistan and is a Pakistani first but wants a confederation between Pakistan and India. He said he still has relatives in India and considers India his homeland just as Pakistan is his homeland.

I also have many Urdu speaking friends who dont want anything to do with India and are happy being Pakistanis and would do anything for Pakistan.

So I'm confused to hear so many different views from Urdu speakers.

So I would like to hear from Urdu Speakers in this forum, what do they want?

Are you happy being Pakistanis instead of Indians?
Are you happy that your parents/grandparents left India for Pakistan?
What kind of relationship do you want Pakistan and India to have in the future?

I also saw this interview which I found very intersting.
yY40sosTtzk[/media] - Hina Khwaja interviews those who left India for Pakistan during Partition


P.S. I wont judge anyone just be honest in what you want for yourselves and Pakistan. Thank you.

Ok, its time you hear one more opinion from one more urdu speaking friend of yours:


Pakistan-India confideration???


Over My Dead Body!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Zob]

Try fetching some old newspapers back in ayub khan's era they clearly stated in advertisements in government jobs "people having domicile form karachi or hyderabad please dont try to apply for this job"

i think qsaark sir replied quiet well to this one...

What happened in karachi during Fatima jinnah's elections

what happened??? i don't know and if you know something i hope you share a link with us about it....

The Quota System of 1973
If the quota system was such a wonderful thing for the rural population of Pakistan, then it should have been introduced everywhere. Why has it been only in Sindh? Don’t other people in Pakistan have the same problems vis-a-vis urban vs. rural?


i think this quota system is across pakistan...not just sindh...and if that is such an issue then i guess that people from other provinces living in the province should get rights...for example punjabis settled in sindh or sindhis settled in punjab...

Sindhi vs urdu language riots 1971 ??

URDU became the offical language in 1973...and this was done by a SINDHI his name was ZULFIQAR ALI BHUTTO!!!!

Pervaiz Musharraf was made the chief of the army staff because nawaz sharif thought that he will be a weak general and will not be any threat to him because he was not from any punjabi army family

ok and before that i think he was a HAWALDAR right?? you have to be in a well ranked position you cannot be chosen from the bottom of the pile....

on the contrary if you want to have a look at it your way all MILITARY COUPS have been brought about by generals that had roots in INDIA...ZIA-UL-HAQ was from jalindaar!! wooooow interesting way of looking at things right??

 

[shuakataftab]

What happened in karachi during Fatima jinnah's elections

what happened??? i don't know and if you know something i hope you share a link with us about it....
over 200 people were killed
who killed them i dont want to start an ethnic fight in this forum

i think this quota system is across pakistan...not just sindh...and if that is such an issue then i guess that people from other provinces living in the province should get rights...for example punjabis settled in sindh or sindhis settled in punjab...
The quota system(1973) in public sector employment


Area of Domicile Quota%
Punjab/Islamabad 50
NWFP 11.5
Rural Sindh 11.4
Urban Sindh 7.6
Northern Areas/FATA 4.0
Baluchistan 3.5
Azad Kashmir 2.0
Merit 10
Why was this rural and urban s*** was introduced in sindh only

Sindhi vs urdu language riots 1971 ??

URDU became the offical language in 1973...and this was done by a SINDHI his name was ZULFIQAR ALI BHUTTO!!!!

I am talking about 1971-1972 not 1973
Language bill was introduced elevated Sindhi to the status of official language for the province, equating it with Urdu.Considering how important Urdu is for the Mohajir population culturally in addition to linguistically, it was not surprising that the introduction of this Bill created large-scale rioting.

It was Bhutto’s populist nationalisation of large-scale manufacturing industry and financial institutions which brought the growth rate down to 3%, the lowest in Pakistan’s history. Privately owned commercial banks and insurance companies were brought under government control. Since most of these were Mohajir owned

 

[Zob]

over 200 people were killed
who killed them i dont want to start an ethnic fight in this forum

like i said my brother link please for this...because a link will MOST DEFINETLY stop a ethnic war....

The quota system(1973) in public sector employment


Area of Domicile Quota%
Punjab/Islamabad 50
NWFP 11.5
Rural Sindh 11.4
Urban Sindh 7.6
Northern Areas/FATA 4.0
Baluchistan 3.5
Azad Kashmir 2.0
Merit 10
Why was this rural and urban s*** was introduced in sindh only



is it really in SINDH only what about this problem in the rest of pakistan.... i think it is a problem of pakistan but the stupid system is SETUP in a way where number of people decides the quota....that explains why balochistan has such a small quota!!!



I am talking about 1971-1972 not 1973
Language bill was introduced elevated Sindhi to the status of official language for the province, equating it with Urdu.Considering how important Urdu is for the Mohajir population culturally in addition to linguistically, it was not surprising that the introduction of this Bill created large-scale rioting.

It was Bhutto’s populist nationalisation of large-scale manufacturing industry and financial institutions which brought the growth rate down to 3%, the lowest in Pakistan’s history. Privately owned commercial banks and insurance companies were brought under government control. Since most of these were Mohajir owned


ok again you refer to yourself as MOHAJIR no where in my post i called you that...so please remember this point!!!

secondly i would also like a website stating that the "URDU SPEAKING" people owned most of the private sector before BHUTTOs nationalization policies that led to the growth rate coming down...

if i am not wrong 20 families owned 80% of the wealth of PAKISTAN before he nationalized!! and PUNJABIS also owned alot of the business it wasn't a specific ATTACK on the urdu speaking....secondly it was a step in the direction of ending FEUDALISM but it was a half hearted approach.....

secondly i don't understand your point fine SINDHI became the language of the province but URDU became the language of the nation..... i think the punjabis,balochis and pathans should be complaining not the sindhis or urdu speaking on this matter.....

urdu speaking have actually got alot of EQUALITY but they just choose to ignore them.... not their mistake but there leaders....

 

[muse]

All too easy to divide Pakistanis - divide them by ethnicity, language and confession.

Why is it so easy to divide Pakistanis? What unites them?


It's easy to divide Pakistanis because they are not united around VALUES, their "identity" is given to them by politicans who see great benefit in a populace divided by non-identities such as ethnicity, language and heritage - Yes, Identity is not organic, it is CREATED, no one after the Quaid has suggested that Pakistanis are a unique peoples. No politicians have ever suggested this because their bread and butter, not to mention their seats in the NA or PA, are tied to these idiot identities and not to VALUES, which any or all Pakistanis can see themselves in as persons.

What do Sindhi want, What do Pakhtuns Want, What do balouchi want, What do Punjabis Want -- who Cares? What matters is what Pakistanis want. There is more to Pakistan than these petty, silly, idiot notions of identity.