Well equiped U.S. Army Compare Chinese Soldiers

[Officer of Engineers]

He owns/Moderates Sinodefence

Not sino-defence but I was a co-founder and moderator at China-Defense.

 

[kvLin]

I was going to say nothing after posting those pics before i saw some words like "moronic" in this thread.I am very glad to see Pakistan friends are very kindly here, I just wish we can understand more with each other.

Alex, there's someone you dont need to pay attention to,coz he never stands on the ground.

 

[Adux]

Well, Then dont you be a doll, tell what the hell the whole thread is all about?
The way Mr.Alex is was stating, I could say chinese are small tiny puny people in front of the stronger muscular american war machine!!!!!!!!! I did not cuz that is not how i weigh solidiers and their valour. You can keep you "Commie great" thinking to yourself, thank you

I never stand on the ground eh!!! With people like you, i could care less.

 

[kvLin]

He actually stated 20 years about 5 years ago. His goal in 20 years time is to produce a modern officer corps; not even a modern army but an officer corps.

And from what I've seen especially of Blue Army exercises, yes, the PLA is some 15 years behind my army.

I believe Cao would not deny that PLA lags behind the US army and it could be far behind in the fact. But it's not his style to picture the gap by exact number of year. coz it's not a simple subtracting work.

Cao was appointed defense minister on march,2003. that's 4 years ago.

but I do agree that Navy makes the biggest gap between the two countries, probably more than 15 years.

 

[Adux]

How is generational differences in training, logisitics, technological integration not a subtraction work, If not be an exact number, is there way you can say that it will be up to par with the US in next 5 years. Or does ambiguity about something give you a better sleep. "You dont know how good we are" syndrome.
Comparing PLAN to the USN is an utter joke at this point of time, I dont see that happening in the next 20-30 years.

 

[kvLin]

Not sino-defence but I was a co-founder and moderator at China-Defense.

Thanks for the correction,Officer. so you're not DF.
I'm just interested in your signature on your forum, since someone keeps quoting it over here, at least twice.

again, welcome aboard!

 

[Neo]

Hehehehehahahahahaha,

Neo,

I think I will visit this forum more if only to keep it more honest. There IS NO WAY a 2 year PLA conscript is EVER going to match a 4 year Western professional contract.

And the two most powerful Chinese Army Groups are the 38th and 39th Group Armies. I have been harping on this since day 1 on WAB and common knowledge on China-Defense.com Forum.

As for the title of this thread - there is NO comparison and the Chinese Chief, General Cao admitted the situation himself. The average Chinese soldier is at least 15 years behind an American soldier and it will take at least 10 years to catch up.

Obviously, there are no PLA watchers on this thread at least because the title is ludicrous at best.

Welcome back Sir!
Glad to have you back.

 

[kvLin]

well, getting back to the topic now.

It's hard for foreigners to understand PLA and its grass-rooting features.
looking back to Mao's era, the core of his military theory is the "mass line". the majority had been living in lower estate and speechless but nevertheless,it's the most powerful class as well as a determining or modifying factor in a war.

The year of 1998 saw the biggest flood of latest 100 years in Changjiang River, and same calamity occured in other 4 drainage areas in China,including Zhujiang River,Songhuajiang River,Nengjiang River and Mingjiang River. 270 thousand of PLA troopers were deployed to the frontline against the floods. 127 lost and 1/4 of them were officers.

If they were equipped well, they might not have to link themselves hand in hand inside the water in order to hold the flood victims from being swept away, whereas according to the PLA doctrine, however equipped, they would sacrifice themselves for rescue of the populace.

There're self-giving rescues of the people in every country, but PLA is really different. It might be technically inferior to many of the world's armies,but has never been revolted at by Chinese people since its foundation in 1927.

In China there are few "weapon makes best army" talker, or the theory of the unique importance of weapons. the Chinese would like to say: you get the people, you win the war.

Similarly, if you're indian,and an indian soldier gets you out of the troubled water, you do have the rights to tell him "you're way inferior to your US counterpart", but you may mostlikely say "thank you and I will fight with you" instead.

 

[Awesome]

Thanks for the correction,Officer. so you're not DF.
I'm just interested in your signature on your forum, since someone keeps quoting it over here, at least twice.

again, welcome aboard!

The good Colonel can get very opinionated when talking politics, but otherwise generally right on the money on technical stuff.

Over the years I've learned to differentiate between the Bruce Banner OoE and the Incredible Hulk OoE. It helps.

 

[kvLin]

actually I fully understand the differences from various political perspectives and respect people who's well learned and lettered. I just feel sick of flame bait and its carrier,especially those quoting words out of context.

 

[alexxxx]

What is this, Chinese soldiers are infact GLUESTICKS!!!!!!!!


Listen good Son,

Every Soldier in the world worth his salt, Honour by the code of a soldier. you can never show how one common soldier is better than the other. Chinese soldiers sure are good, so are the soldiers of other countries. Put that into your tiny head.

Americans have died in the thousands for their country along the history. Heck they went all the way to Europe to fight for a cause they beleived in, when they didnt have to. Honor Them. It will only make you a better human being.


The Code of Conduct

Posted Friday, October 7, 2005



I

I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.

II

I will never surrender of my own free will. If in command, I will never surrender the members of my command while they still have the means to resist.

III

If I am captured I will continue to resist by all means available. I will make every effort to escape and to aid others to escape. I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy.

IV

If I become a prisoner of war, I will keep faith with my fellow prisoners. I will give no information or take part in any action which might be harmful to my comrades. If I am senior, I will take command. If not, I will obey the lawful orders of those appointed over me and will back them up in every way.

V

When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am required to give name, rank, service number, and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability. I will make no oral or written statements disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause.

VI

I will never forget that I am an American, fighting for freedom, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America.

Did i hurt you? to make you so excited ?
I offer my sincere apology.
In our opinion, "sound good" is much more easier than "perform good". I'm not quite sure you will agree with me, ,my lovely Indian friend.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

Kv,

I've been a Cao fan ever since he tore up the old LOG system and replaced it with good old fashion inventory control. He is perhaps the most realistic visionary since Lin Bao. The context of the 20 year quote was a speech given to a bunch of Officer Cadets. It was an assessment, inspiration, and a challenge. Cao was never a man to solve a problem by hiding it. He bluntly told the Cadets just how much work they have in front of them.

I disagree that China's doctrines are based on mass. They have known mass alone don't work since the Korean War ... but they had nothing else. With Mao at the head and his idiotic delusional edicts that resulted in the GLF and the GPCR, the PLA was allowed nothing else and was almost replaced by the Red Guards.

Hell, the 2.5 million man PLA had no hope of stopping the 450,000 man Soviet Far Eastern Force from stomping all over Northern China and the concept of the People's War was ludicrous was examined from a purely military perspective. People's War requires a surviving CCP government and there was no guarrantee that one could survive a Soviet onslaught. The resulting clusterfuck called the 1st Sino-Vietnam War in 1979 showed just how idiotic the entire idea was.

The current Pockets of Excellence, Brigadization, and especially the War Zone Campaign cannot be more different than the People's War.

 

[kvLin]

thanks officer, for above discussion. (you've got a good name)

IIRC, Cao ever said "we're in disadvantage and the US in advantage", anyway it doesn't make any difference to his sobriety on the global status quo. you may know I was talking about someone else here when expressing my sick feeling over baleful quotations.

Mao is equally laudable as blamable in Chinese common view. If we say the goal of the revolution had been ridiculously liberating the humankind in general, then the later cultural revolution was totally a deathful error. nevertheless,if you've read Mao's theory of durative war, he might come up to you a pretty good strategist. and that's why Linbiao had lost the political game in 1976 despite his military talent.

The theory of durative war is right based on disadvantage,by which a people's war (not human wave tactics ) doesn't mean abduction of the populace into war. China has the biggest population and geographic depth, which is the most important stuff in resisting foreign conquest. I'm not sure how long will CCP stand in Chinese leadership but the nation can never be deracinated for good. The US has been stuck deeply in the Irak mud after splendid series of military success, Iran and N.Korea will be foreseeingly the deeper mires ahead, which attests well to the nonpersistent consequence of a military superiority. military force is important,but it's not everything.

To make it clear, Mao said "get them (the invader) into a flood of people's war ". hereby he was not talking about any stupid huge-crowd assaults, but contrastively a nation wide hostility against the enemy. and that's what I mean by a "mass line".

 

[Officer of Engineers]

Kv,

To be clear. One of the most distinct disadvantages of the People's War and why it cannot be abandoned fast enough by the PLA is that you have to lose a war before you can start fighting it. The enemy must come into your home before you can start booby trapping your own toilet, poisoning your own food, and wrecking your own furniture, to make life so uncomfortable (but NOT impossible - if the enemy is determined to live in your dump, then he will live in your dump) that he leaves. Whatever the outcome, you will have to wreck your own home by your own hand. That is why it is so distasteful to men like Generals Cao and Bao.

Both men are students of the American Field Manual 3.0 Operations (I would suggest you try to read it but it's an extremely hard read for those not used to field manuals and even for uniformed members ... well, it took me 18 months to study that FM). It fundamentally shifts the fight to the other guys' home. You go in to wreck his home and whether you stay or not, his home is wrecked.

Incidently, I find Mao's quotations to have been elsewhere before. It bears close resemblance but not identical to the Art of War. Even Soviet Field Marshal Chuikov, the Hero of Stalingrad, written about the battle momentum achieved by a single determined people long before Mao. I don't know if Mao had come up with his thoughts independently or copied them but others had mastered the force of the people long before him.

And chances are, it won't be you who kicks the enemy out but your kids. Even using China as the example. It was not the Soong or the Jins who kicked them out. It was the Ming and it was not the Ming who finally saw the end of Qing rule but the birth of the Republic of China.

I understand completely the idea of the hostile population, having seen it 1st hand. I've also seen what a hostile force can do to an insubordinate population.

Let's put it this way. If Stalin's Russia were to conquer Mao's China, I bet on Stalin.

 

[kvLin]

well, I dont worry about the picture resulted by people's war in China, coz there's tinny tiny chance for that to occur. do you see the US troops stay at leisure in Iraq,Afghanistan or ever in Korea and Vietnam as they'd ever expected? hate is the most dangerous enemy while weapon can inevitably hurt both (this will lead us back to the starting topic again--American culture accepts loser over a disastrous victory, and the US govt. apparently more worried about casualty). actually I wonder what would happen to the world if it happens to China. (despite there would be someone aside crying "my uncle Sam will bomb you back to the stoneage" )

I admit it's a wise pickup of the great battle of defending Stalingrad. the war started on July 1942 and Mao got his theory of durative war issued in 1938. he was apparently a student of Chinese history and culture, Lizicheng (leader of the peasant insurrection against the Ming regime) was supposed to be the No.1 historical figure in Mao's researching list.

China has a long history of victories and defeats which is beyond a whole life study,nonetheless, looking outward and studying the advanced armies is never less important than introspection.