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Well equiped U.S. Army Compare Chinese Soldiers

And being a Vet does not mean he is qualify to answer EVERY QUESTION does it? Incase you are to retarded by your years of english training and still not able to read his name, He serves in the ENGINEERING corp, that should give you the hint what kind of expertise he is in, he surely is not specialise in combat or counter insurgency. So, you are an idiot to even believe he is qualify to answer any of that.

I am a infantryman and know the value of engineers so may be you should learn too. Keysersoze

Do you even know the importance of Engg's in the battlefield. How do you think an army would cross a river if there are no Engg's. Do you even know about how Engg's is of great importance in assesment of enemy's capability's and logistics. Do you even know the combat value of the information? Do you know Engg's are combat trained and are also recurited into various special forces ?What is your understanding of Engg's in the army?Please do tell, their job?
I suggest you read the advices written by fellow Military men. All the civie's can talk about tech and political stuff, I suggest you learn on military manovere's from people who have actually did it.

PS: you certainly would think I am in "call center"... you can think so if you want..you assume too much about other people's expertise. So i suggest especially since I am senior member here, Learn to respect other's, especially Military men, this is a defence forum.
 
Overseer I suggest you look at the successful anti-insurgency operations and what they involve. I do not believe that OOE was suggesting "wipe them out". rather I think he was suggesting remove a element from the equation. The malayan emergency is an example of this.

Good point, As you said Oee wasnt suggesting it, He was saying the best way to go after the gurrilla's is that you play dirty too, Go after the woman,children and relatives etc. A tactic very well used by the baath regime itself. Something Military of Britain and US cant do morally.
 
My expertise in the matter comes from having served in UNPROFOR and watching the exact thing happened and at times help make it happened or did people forget about ethnic cleansing? Guerrilla warfare is a coward's way to fight. They hide behind women skirts and bottle sucking babies. Get rid of the women and children and the guerrillas leave big time.

There were times when CANBAT escourted people to safety, knowing full well that we have yielded the territory to the other side. Srebrenecia and DUTCHBAT is full testament to this exact detail. Muslim guerrillas hit the Serbs from the safety of the city being protected by originally CANBAT and later DUTCHBAT. After DUTCHBAT's withdraw, the Serbs shipped the women and children out and began to machine gun military aged males. Those who could'e ran or fought their way out did so.

And I was Brigade Operations Officer before I retired.
 
Good point, As you said Oee wasnt suggesting it, He was saying the best way to go after the gurrilla's is that you play dirty too, Go after the woman,children and relatives etc. A tactic very well used by the baath regime itself. Something Military of Britain and US cant do morally.

I disagree with the "play dirty" part. I would suggest that that is more likely to piss more people off and create more problems. (It's not working for the Israeli's for example) I would suggest that it is removing their base of support. Turn the people against them.
 
Keyser,

Israeli situation is a complete different issue, Israeli's were always the oppressor's and intent to stay there forever. They have no other choice than go all out, since the arabs wont agree to do with Israel.

While Americans came in from outside, they were seen as the saviour's first, but people turned against them when the civil admin went into utter chaos. Americans being a foriegn power can play dirty real well, and get out of there.

I dont agree with the dirty part, but it is the most easiest way. having and keeping the higher moral ground is a tough job.
 
My expertise in the matter comes from having served in UNPROFOR and watching the exact thing happened and at times help make it happened or did people forget about ethnic cleansing? Guerrilla warfare is a coward's way to fight. They hide behind women skirts and bottle sucking babies. Get rid of the women and children and the guerrillas leave big time.

There were times when CANBAT escourted people to safety, knowing full well that we have yielded the territory to the other side. Srebrenecia and DUTCHBAT is full testament to this exact detail. Muslim guerrillas hit the Serbs from the safety of the city being protected by originally CANBAT and later DUTCHBAT. After DUTCHBAT's withdraw, the Serbs shipped the women and children out and began to machine gun military aged males. Those who could'e ran or fought their way out did so.

And I was Brigade Operations Officer before I retired.


Sir,

i dont think you have to explain anything to him, your reputation is very well known and respected in this forum.
 
I dont understand why people call Iraq a failure in military terms, civilian control has never been the work of a military. No War in this scale in history has claimed so little live's on the invading force. 3000-odd. I would call it a very successfull one, I dont think there is any military in the world right now, which has the resources or the capacity to do what US Forces has did. Iraq is a political debacle.

In the end, that's all that matters. No matter how successful the military operations, if the political objectives are not achieved, then it was a waste of lives.

The current situation is that we have not capitalized on the victory and subsequent highs (2 joyous elections and a brand new brave and uplifting Iraqi Interim government). There was hope but hope alone does not replace hard work ... and the only people doing the hard work is the US military and I don't mean just security. I mean keeping the markets open; getting people to work; make sure the lights are on at night.

The problem is that is just too much. US Engineers search for IEDs during the day and tried to repair the local power grid at night. Add in the enforced rest, there is simply neither time nor money to do it all.

Major Shekleton has stated that only the US military went to war and not the rest of the US. There's no funds available to rebuild Iraq and what funds are there comes directly from the military budget. Spending $10K to get a M1 to Iraq means that that $10K ain't going to buy the copper wire to repair the local power grid.

The Iraqis are simply not ready and no one has done anything to get them ready. Electing a new government is one thing but has anyone actually sat them down and teach them how to run their respective ministries? Did anyone teach them that hoarding money destined to build a bridge is not a good idea?

As of right now, Iraq is sliding into a Civil War. It is currently a war between terrorists. The militias have yet to wage full scale battles against each other. But it's coming. Unless the US somehow solve this situation (and increased security is only part of the answer), the war would have been for naught.
 
General Eric Shinseki is a seasoned armyman but he might be wrong when he called for more military force into Iraq, before his early retirement there was Thomas White standing similarly against Donald Rumsfeld on whether to change the current structure of the U.S. Army or to send more troops into Iraq.

I was refering to the Future Combat System and the STRYKER Brigades initiated by Gen Shinseki. I was one of those who thought the occupation force was too small.

Shall we say Iraq is a big headache,shall we not?

From a strategic standpoint, there was no other choice. After 11 Sept, Saddam had become an intolerable strategic threat and not because of any connection to any terror group or the WMD argument but mainly because that there was no doubt if he could find a way, he would try to hit the US. 11 Sept showed him the way.

I would call Iraq as a pain-in-the-butt for the American public. I don't see anyone wanting to solve the situation. They just want it to go away.

The fault is again leadership. If you don't tell me (or any soldier) what you want, I will definitely give you something you don't want. The American political leadership is not telling anyone what they want to do with Iraq

The taiwan issue is indeed a danger to Chinese government, you know why it insists on the return of a small island? in my view it actually concerns the overall stabilization of the country. and that's why China prefer the status quo to its independence.

anyway, if there have to be a Sino-USA war in the future,the causing fuse could be nothing more than Taiwan.
as for the populace in Tibet and Xinjiang, a recent internet vote on China's Sina.com somehow resulted unlooked-for, 93% of the Tibetan and 96% of the Uigur voted for satisfaction on the current condition of China,while only 83% of the Han clicked the same button.

You're speaking of the current situation with the CCP still in charge. I was hypothetically referring to a China that would be under an American occupation. How long can various ethnic groups stay together before they rebel against a Han insurgent leadership?

I recommend cordially a good visit deep in China. Being a China watcher,you need to make your time on it. and welcome.

Beijing Garrison. Didn't like the kung fu demonstrations but loved the mess. I could grow fat there.

Incidently, Johnny Walkers ain't a good scotch, not even the blue label.

btw,I'm originally from Beijing, now live in Guangdong. dont quite get you on dislikings between different cites in China.it's atbest cultural joke.

Easy, can a person speak only Cantonese in Beijing and get services without jumping through hoops. I speak both Mandarin and Cantonese but I bet you I get more services speaking English than speaking Cantonese. Never tried French in China though.

Humanitarianism is the splendid flag,under which it's Nixon's global stratagem (we still need to give thanks to whatever it was). a good judgement was made during cold war--China could be an excellent frontline in confronting the polar bear. later on was the once-a-time Sino-USA honeymoon featured by the Peacepearl project.

I always thought of them as a Brown Bear. I really don't know what was the final straw that made Moscow backed off. Strictly from a military standpoint, taking Lop Nor would not be hard and effectively divide China in half, destroy their nuclear program and take out Mao.

You're right but my point is that warfare has been changing technically and you may fight a totally different one in near future,whereas the art of war will inspire every generation to the last.

But the fundamentals of war have changed drastically. Caveman days, you take the other guys' dinner, you win. A 1000 years ago, you take the other guy's cities, you win. 200 years ago, you force the other guy to sign a piece of paper, you win. Today, you deny the other guy the information to make decisions, you win.

100 years from now, you may crash the other guy's computer systems and you win

It depends, you can nuke million people prior to their dispersal, but it's very very hard to perish a nation, Judah is the best proof. and on the contrast,10000 superiorty like FBI might also fail to hold back a couple of desperado.

I'm not qualified to speak on nuclear targeting other than that it terrifies me.

I feel you're beside Rumsfeld by preaching smaller amry and higher efficiency. am I right?

No, I'm a dinosaur. I believe that we have lost alot of combat capability since the end of the Cold War. Those Armies facing each other across the Fulda Gap were the deadliest armies the world has ever seen.

I look at V Corps' performances and I feel a cold chill knowing that had V Corps done what they did in Iraq against the Soviet Guards and Shock Armies, they would have been meat. 3-7Cav allowed themselves to be surrounded by the Medina - a single battalion against an entire division - not the odds that I like.

That being said, I also know that I'm a dinosaur and if I stick with my thinking back a 100 years ago, we still be polishing our lance tips and arguing which horse is the best breed on the battlefield - Belgian with Clydesdale a closed 2nd.
 
I disagree with the "play dirty" part. I would suggest that that is more likely to piss more people off and create more problems. (It's not working for the Israeli's for example) I would suggest that it is removing their base of support. Turn the people against them.
I don't think the Israelis got the balls to play dirty, at least not at the Balkan, Russian-Chechen level.

Your 2nd suggestion can lead to other consequences. One of the side effects of the Chinese GPCR was to tear Tibetan youths against their elders. Beijing replaced the Dali Lama with Mao as the new God but the GPCR had other unwanted side effects.
 
I don't think the Israelis got the balls to play dirty, at least not at the Balkan, Russian-Chechen level.

Your 2nd suggestion can lead to other consequences. One of the side effects of the Chinese GPCR was to tear Tibetan youths against their elders. Beijing replaced the Dali Lama with Mao as the new God but the GPCR had other unwanted side effects.

True but you are throwing religion into the equation there. And that always has the ability to become messy.

I believe that 99.9% of people want to live in peace and security. Give them that and they fast become annoyed with anyone who destroys that balance. (point in fact the failure to secure anything other than the oil offices during the early days of the current Iraq conflict helped create the huge void that was filled by the various militias and other sectarian groups who tend to be the ones feeding the insurgencies)

If people are prospersous and safe other concerns fade faster...
 
I would argue that war is a young man's game. Those who crashed airplanes into highrises and bombing London were not the poor and desperate.
 
I would argue that war is a young man's game. Those who crashed airplanes into highrises and bombing London were not the poor and desperate.

Yes but they were religious fanatics (created in order to fight another war and then forgotten about) and that is a whole other issue as I have said.

War is definitely a young mans game....I came close to going on another tour ,but had a moment of pause. :lol:
 
From a strategic standpoint, there was no other choice. After 11 Sept, Saddam had become an intolerable strategic threat and not because of any connection to any terror group or the WMD argument but mainly because that there was no doubt if he could find a way, he would try to hit the US. 11 Sept showed him the way.
Exactly.
Now only if Bush told that in the first place, he would have seen more support for Iraq. Why does Dubya have to lie all the time.
I would add oil too in that sir, Lets not be naive. It wasnt a military obj but certainily a political one.
 
Exactly.
Now only if Bush told that in the first place, he would have seen more support for Iraq. Why does Dubya have to lie all the time.

It would be very legally difficult to goto war on what Saddam MIGHT do instead of what he has done.
 
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