We Don’t Seek Benevolence, But Don’t Malign us Either – Part I

[MastanKhan]

I'm doing fine thank you bro. Hope the same's with you.

I just think if you said "my" country/nation, versus "your" or "their" it would have more of an impact.

Rest I kind of agree, though I believe that Pakistanis in general (on this board definitely) are mch more mellow and accepting than they were 2-3 years ago.

However, equally, there seems to be a disturbing trend towards greater religosity as well.

As a panacea maybe? The other being Imran Khan?

I sincerely hope not.

Hi,

That is just like nit-picking for excuses---like---you looked at me that way---or I did not like the tone of your voice so I did not do the job.

And why it does not happen in india---because indians have their priorities figured out. Inida is a nation now---it is india first---. Indians know what state they are citizens of---pakistan on the other hand is not a nation----pakistanis do not have any identity of their own---pakistanis do not have any loyalty to the state----.

Where under duress india opened its mind to other options---pakistanis closed their thinking process and shut their minds to the changes that were taking place in and around their geographic boundaries---.

The biggest difference between india and pakistan is---that in india still a poor person can get justice---more judges are honest---pakistan has totally lost its judiciary---.

The curse of the shariah law as it is imposed is the death blow to the pakistani civil society and judiciary---. Pakistanis have lived in an illusion that the shariah will do wonders----no it won't---the existing law is a good law----it only needed to be enforced----.

Another difference is---that for pakistanis---untill and unless their house does not catch on fire---they don't acknowledge of the fires consuming the neighbourhood----.

The biggest problem that the nation has---is their learning disability---they are mentally thick as molasses on a cold murree morning---they have no vision and no ability to visualize a better and prosperous and a peaceful pakistan.

They don't understand that in order for them to have meaningful peace---they have to take drastic actions against those whose interests are conflicting the interests of a developing nation. They don't understand that a sacrifice in time saves nine---.

Pakistanis claim that Musharraf bowed down on just one phone call---if they had libraries---and if they had read history about the destruction of the muslim empire by the hands of Genghis Khan---read about the white tent---red tent---black tent---they would have thought otherwise about the u s warnings---.

All this bubble that pakistan had about their military might just burst on the nite the u s struck down Osama Bin Laden---and the salala chek post incident---that was the moment for an awakening---but awakening from what---you have to accept that you have been sleeping.

Pakistan is being lead by a lunatic chief justice---an incompetent and criminally corrupt political party who cannot stand in front of the judge for obvious reasons---and a military who has been sleeping for awhile now.

So bottomline----mere words are meaningless----. I will bet you---that if I was addressing a crowd of indians on one side and a crowd of pakistanis on the other side and used similiar language and terminology---the indians would react differently to the pakistanis---.

 

[datalibdaz]

The big problem with us Pakistani's is that we don't listen.We don't have the will to face truth,simply close our eyes to facts, whether its in our interest or not. We don't give a chance to think about it. Every thought is individual,for own interest but nothing for the country. That is one of the reasons we have brought ourselves to a level that we are bashed by everyone.

I dont know what am i writing but i surely need to smoke more.

 

[Xeric]

This letter in Dawn may be relevant to this thread:

from: Equal perks for civil officers | DAWN.COM
EQUAL PERKS FOR CIVIL OFFICERS
From the Newspaper

According to a news report, the Public Accounts Committee has advised the establishment division to revisit the policy of plot allotment to federal secretaries/BPS-22 officers on retirement.

It would be pertinent to mention here that a general or a lieutenant-general or an equal rank navy/air force officer not only gets a number of plots, houses, apartments during his/her tenure, but acres of (fertile) land along with tons of other privileges as well at the time of retirement.

However, the PAC, not even in its dreams, would ever dare to confer the same advice to the ministry of defence/GHQ. Or, would it? If the PAC cannot, then it also does not have any legal and moral obligation to bash civil service officers.

Also, I would request the Chief Justice to take suo motu notice of the existence of such anomalies of pre-and post-retirement perks between civilian and armed forces officers.

I request him to ensure that either award the same privileges to civil officers or bring armed forces officers’ perks at par with their civilian counterparts.

S.S.F. QURESHI
Islamabad

The perks are equal, already.

Probably, sir Qureshi or his beloved bureaucrats lack the knowledge of the same and nothing else.

As i mentioned in my piece, there is a very well maintained procedure to provide plots to the civil gazetted officers on the exact same lines as it is for the Armed Forces. The following scheme are specifically for these mighty bureaucrats:-

- Federal Government Employees Housing Scheme (Here's their eligibility criteria: Federal Government Employees Housing Foundation Islamabad)

- Punjab Government Servants Housing Foundation

This is what their website says their salient features are:

• All Punjab Govt. employees are eligible to become members.
• Provision of residential units to all the members after retirement.
• Provision of Government land free of cost for construction of houses.
• Membership opportunity for every Punjab Government Servant.
• Facility for members to pay the cost in advance through easy installments.
• Bank loan facility for payment of balance cost of the house upon retirement.
• Transfer of ownership rights upon taking posession [sic] .
• Permission to sell house one year after taking possession.

Punjab Government Servants Housing Foundation is specifically for Punjab Government Servants, and hence no one stops KPK, Sindh or AK to do the same for their govt servants.

Like i said, even Webby can do it for us, only if cars about us

- Police Foundation Housing Society (Even i cant even think of having a house in these, those living in Islamabad know what i am saying

- Pakistan Housing Authority (Formally known as Prime Minister Housing Authority (PMHA) is a Housing Scheme for the 'aam janta' (unfortunately when they like to portray themselves as such, i wont mind calling them the same). Any Pakistani, expat or not can enjoy its fruit. The thing is, they have to pay for it like any military officer, and probably this is what pains them.)

(Links to these societies are available ion my original writeup).

So,

there isnt any 'inequality', per se. The only difference might be that senior military officers can get "agriculture" land on retirement. Though the same can be procured by the civilian bureaucracy without much hassle.

A word about the so called agri land:

This land is not 'prime' land, nor does it yield crops automatically. Rather, the lands at the most far flung, poor to maintain and without water areas is given, with the expectation that the new owner will invest millions to make the land cultivable, and only then he can earn its fruit.

Also, this land is also available to civilian takers i.e. only if they want to, but they dont. Why? Because the land is in such a poor condition and such a remote place where it is nearly impossible to cultivate it.

For example, the land given to General Ayub is right at the ZERO LINE (border between Pakistan and India). i mean while standing anywhere in that land one can see the fencing done by indians and even say hello to the indian guard across the border. Now tell me, who would like to take such a piece of land? There is not water there, and the approach is inaccessible, probably mined. Those living in Sialkot must be well aware of this.

So, for the easy comprehension, one can say that it is a way to actually make such land usable, that we give it to government people.

Lastly, before Cheng starts to justify his post by saying that his aim was to

only describe reality, as honestly as I possibly can.

, and that 'other' Pakistanis should also get the same 'perks', i must tell you that he was not, because if that had been the case, he could have mentioned the same in his premise.

So much for understanding the very simple inglish i had written in my piece and having an unbiased approach from an expat's point of view.

And for Sir Qureshi, get a facking life, or come on PDF so that you can be dealt with properly

 

[VCheng]

The perks are equal, already.

.....................
Lastly, before Cheng starts to justify his post by saying that his aim was to, and that 'other' Pakistanis should also get the same 'perks', i must tell you that he was not, because if that had been the case, he could have mentioned the same in his premise.

So much for understanding the very simple inglish i had written in my piece and having an unbiased approach from an expat's point of view.

And for Sir Qureshi, get a facking life, or come on PDF so that you can be dealt with properly

Actually, the letter indicates that although the perks are the same currently, the PAC has asked the Establishment Division to revisit this policy, which the writer claims would render the change discriminatory, should that occur.

Further, the letter makes the point that such a review has not been ordered for similar allocations to the military and raises the question why not?

 

[RabzonKhan]

Yeah but you are Pakistani.

Who happens to be an American now.

And I rarely see you taking a dump on anybody else.

I find this weird about you Pakistanis.

Expats like you dump on the home country and countrymen.

And the natives for the most part take it mildly.

I could never imagine either happening with Indians.

Not with the rest of the world watching at least.

There is a difference between constructive criticism and destructive criticism. Being patriotic means loving your country, not blindly agreeing with everything that goes around. As Mark Twain (an American writer) once said, “Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”

Criticizing one’s country and helping to work for greater change is the most patriotic thing you can do. I debate the problems at hand to make my homeland represent the beauty I feel that it has always had.

In fact, I would argue that to not be critical of wrong policies of the rulers is completely unpatriotic. Those who care, take interest, those who take interest, analyze, refute, criticize and partake in the interests of one’s Nation.

Btw, if the majority of expats have their way, Pakistan would already be in war with USA, India and Israel.

 

[MastanKhan]

There is a difference between constructive criticism and destructive criticism. Being patriotic means loving your country, not blindly agreeing with everything that goes around. As Mark Twain (an American writer) once said, “Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”

Criticizing one’s country and helping to work for greater change is the most patriotic thing you can do. I debate the problems at hand to make my homeland represent the beauty I feel that it has always had.

In fact, I would argue that to not be critical of wrong policies of the rulers is completely unpatriotic. Those who care, take interest, those who take interest, analyze, refute, criticize and partake in the interests of one’s Nation.

Btw, if the majority of expats have their way, Pakistan would already be in war with USA, India and Israel.

Sir,

It is not right----if it was for the expats---pak millitary would have gone in and killed OBL in afg and presented his head to the world along with his cohorts---if that oppurtunity was missed then taken him when he came through tora bora---.

And as for having a war with israel india and usa---that was like pulling a rabbit out of the hat----.

If you learn to take this atypical pakistani term---' constructive criticism / destructive criticism ' out of your vocabulory you will learn to see progress---.

 

[RabzonKhan]

Sir,

It is not right----if it was for the expats---pak millitary would have gone in and killed OBL in afg and presented his head to the world along with his cohorts---if that oppurtunity was missed then taken him when he came through tora bora---.

And as for having a war with israel india and usa---that was like pulling a rabbit out of the hat----.

If you learn to take this atypical pakistani term---' constructive criticism / destructive criticism ' out of your vocabulory you will learn to see progress---.

Janab Mastan Khan Sahib, my post was not directed at you or Vcheng, in fact, I enjoy reading your posts.

Cheers.

 

[Xeric]

Atleast we dont do this:

Allotment of plots to bureaucrats | DAWN.COM

No, we dont hide it either.

 

[Rajput_Pakistani]

In Pakistan, the reason for downfall is just that no one wants to be accountable. Civil bureaucracy, media, judges, lawyers everyone has chosen a simple technique to hide their corruption i.e. "the best way to defend is to attack"
Everyone when questioned portray him/her as the most innocent individual and a victim of "agencies", but while talking of Army, they respect no boundaries. Look what happened when someone tried to look into "apna gireban"

Similarly ask a judge, they will definitely cry about "adliya ki azadi"
Ask journalists, they will cry "media ki azadi" and politicians, they have a license to loot and plunder this country.

My point is this, that those who are questioning army, are they themselves credible?

 

[VCheng]

Atleast we dont do this:

Allotment of plots to bureaucrats | DAWN.COM

No, we dont hide it either.

Yes.

You just get anything to the contrary "hard deleted", as if that somehow changes the reality of the situation.

Please do carry on, Sir, as you wish.

 

[muse]

My point is this, that those who are questioning army, are they themselves credible?

Why such a panic, why this defensive attitude, let them pose as many questions as they like to - answer all of their questions - next thing you know, it's end of story - There is absolutely no need for this effeminate offense taking, just respond to the questions with a view to educate and inform, turn a potential negative int a positive.

 

[VCheng]

Why such a panic, why this defensive attitude, let them pose as many questions as they like to - answer all of their questions - next thing you know, it's end of story - There is absolutely no need for this effeminate offense taking, just respond to the questions with a view to educate and inform, turn a potential negative int a positive.

Nah, it is much easier to assume a Holier Than Thou attitude, and delete the comments one doesn't like (like my posts).

 

[muse]

It's not a personal thing I'm sure - it does take time to learn to do things in a different way --

 

[VCheng]

It's not a personal thing I'm sure - it does take time to learn to do things in a different way --

If you say so Sir, if you say so. I have my doubts though.

 

[Xeric]

Why such a panic, why this defensive attitude, let them pose as many questions as they like to - answer all of their questions - next thing you know, it's end of story

That's the problem, the story doesnt end, whatever you do.

- There is absolutely no need for this effeminate offense taking, just respond to the questions with a view to educate and inform, turn a potential negative int a positive.

What else do you think i and a few others have been doing since the opening of this thread. Did it have any effects? Guess not.

Let's see, if a learned guy like yourself can ask 'new' questions - that's after you have gone through this thread.