War is always an option to utilize wether you like it or not

[jericho]

I dont want war but I dont want to be told it's not an option and we should suck it up because we are told too like bhair bakriyan.

I believe the government is very clear that if anyone tries to challenge its sovereignty, it will retaliate, that to me doesnt seem like "bhair bakriyan"

You have your way of thinking and I have mine, I recognize your sentiments though I don't think we are going to reach an agreement on the approach of the government on handling the current situation, but I think we can both hope that no matter what happens, Pakistan will be prosperous and stable and its people will finally see peace and stability and live with dignity

 

[Ghazwa-e-Hind]

I agree with the OP.

We (muslims) in general have become soft, our luxurious lifestyles have made us forgot what our true goal is.

Right now according the reports that I have read, India is now aiming for Gilgit baltistan and AJK to disrupt CPEC project

India also has activated afghan proxies in full swing. IED and bomb attacks have started happening at an increased pace.

Our strategy was not strong enough on 27th feb events, but in near future we must not let the upcoming war unleash in our Land. we cannot afford destruction.

 

[omegalamba7XL9]

I believe the government is very clear that if anyone tries to challenge its sovereignty, it will retaliate, that to me doesnt seem like "bhair bakriyan"

You have your way of thinking and I have mine, I recognize your sentiments though I don't think we are going to reach an agreement on the approach of the government on handling the current situation, but I think we can both hope that no matter what happens, Pakistan will be prosperous and stable and its people will finally see peace and stability and live with dignity

I also respect your opinion but I scream and shout when I look at the situation on border and domestic situation like Karachi. Where is prosperity where is dignity. Just look at the sanitation situation in Karachi and one wonders wow if they cant solve sanitation situation in Karachi then how competent they can be representing the interests of Pakistan on global level. That's why I'm nervous and therefore scream and shout before these people make a blunder in Kashmir case. Thanks for healthy discussion though i just wish this kind of discussion takes place on serious level in the govt rather than any other pk defence entertainment thread.

 

[cricketrulez]

https://www.geo.tv/latest/246433-pm-imran-says-pakistan-will-not-make-first-move-in-war-with-india

LAHORE: Prime Minister Imran Khan said Monday Pakistan would not make the first move if war broke out with India.

Addressing the International Sikh Convention's closing session here during his day-long visit to the city, PM Imran recalled the love he received in India when he travelled there for the first time to play cricket.

The PM reiterated that he had conveyed to India that if New Delhi took one step for progress with Pakistan, Islamabad would take two more. "We face climate change but both countries together can deal with climate change issues," he noted.

"War solves nothing," the premier stressed, adding: "Whoever tried to resolve conflicts through wars ended up with more problems than before."


Modi government has committed a historic blunder in Kashmir, says PM Imran


The ruling Bharatiya Janata Party's (BJP) government was following the same viewpoint that had led to the creation of Pakistan, PM Imran noted, highlighting that what the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) — the ideology of which he had underscored earlier was what the BJP was following — was perpetrating in India was inhumane.

"No religion, including Hinduism, allows this kind of barbarity," he said. The PM stressed further on how eight million people were locked up in Indian occupied Kashmir because of a curfew that has entered its 27th consecutive day.

PM Imran asked: "Can anyone be that barbarous to other people? Islam does not allow this kind of brutality and injustice towards people of other faiths.

"I fear the current ideology of the RSS would leave space for no one in India. If the RSS ideology is not stopped, they would go for people of all faiths," the premier noted, also referring to how people in India were lynched for consuming beef.


India wants to sabotage CPEC, Gwadar port projects: President Alvi


Last week, while addressing the 56th Convention of Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) in Houston via a video link, PM Imran had stated that terrorism had nothing to do with religion and that Islam was a religion of peace.

Speaking of the prevailing lockdown in occupied Kashmir, the premier had said the people of the valley had been under siege for more than three weeks.

The PM had added that the narrative was centred on a country of one billion people, with nuclear weapons and extreme ideology and philosophy.

Also read: 'Kashmir communications blackout putting patients at risk'

"Kashmir is a disputed territory and its future is to be decided by a plebiscite of its people," PM Imran had said.

Multiple visa policy for Sikh community
Separately, PM Imran announced that his government would issue multiple and on-arrival visas to the Sikh community and provide them with the maximum possible facilities during pilgrimages to their holy sites.

The prime minister assured the Sikh community that "you will be issued multiple visa… This is our responsibility. We will facilitate you rather will give you visa at airport.

"We will give you multiple visa to facilitate your journey to and from India,” the prime minister said. He added: "We will resolve challenges the Sikh community faces in obtaining visas."


Islam is a religion of peace, has nothing to do with terrorism: PM Imran


Also in attendance were Punjab Governor Chaudhry Muhammad Sarwar, federal and provincial cabinet members, and Sikh pilgrims from the UK, the United States, Canada, Europe, and other countries.

The prime minister said he realised the difficulties foreigners face in obtaining Pakistani visas. "Though our government has changed the visa regime, the mindset of creating hurdles will gradually diminish," he added.

Earlier, it was reported that PM Imran would hold a meeting with the Punjab governor and the provincial chief minister, Usman Buzdar, on various issues. He was also said to chair a high-level meeting of the Punjab government officials at the CM House.

The visit comes amid high tensions in Pakistan over the illegal annexation of Kashmir by New Delhi.

 

[omegalamba7XL9]

https://www.geo.tv/latest/246433-pm-imran-says-pakistan-will-not-make-first-move-in-war-with-india

LAHORE: Prime Minister Imran Khan said Monday Pakistan would not make the first move if war broke out with India.

Addressing the International Sikh Convention's closing session here during his day-long visit to the city, PM Imran recalled the love he received in India when he travelled there for the first time to play cricket.

The PM reiterated that he had conveyed to India that if New Delhi took one step for progress with Pakistan, Islamabad would take two more. "We face climate change but both countries together can deal with climate change issues," he noted.

"War solves nothing," the premier stressed, adding: "Whoever tried to resolve conflicts through wars ended up with more problems than before."


Modi government has committed a historic blunder in Kashmir, says PM Imran


The ruling Bharatiya Janata Party's (BJP) government was following the same viewpoint that had led to the creation of Pakistan, PM Imran noted, highlighting that what the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) — the ideology of which he had underscored earlier was what the BJP was following — was perpetrating in India was inhumane.

"No religion, including Hinduism, allows this kind of barbarity," he said. The PM stressed further on how eight million people were locked up in Indian occupied Kashmir because of a curfew that has entered its 27th consecutive day.

PM Imran asked: "Can anyone be that barbarous to other people? Islam does not allow this kind of brutality and injustice towards people of other faiths.

"I fear the current ideology of the RSS would leave space for no one in India. If the RSS ideology is not stopped, they would go for people of all faiths," the premier noted, also referring to how people in India were lynched for consuming beef.


India wants to sabotage CPEC, Gwadar port projects: President Alvi


Last week, while addressing the 56th Convention of Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) in Houston via a video link, PM Imran had stated that terrorism had nothing to do with religion and that Islam was a religion of peace.

Speaking of the prevailing lockdown in occupied Kashmir, the premier had said the people of the valley had been under siege for more than three weeks.

The PM had added that the narrative was centred on a country of one billion people, with nuclear weapons and extreme ideology and philosophy.

Also read: 'Kashmir communications blackout putting patients at risk'

"Kashmir is a disputed territory and its future is to be decided by a plebiscite of its people," PM Imran had said.

Multiple visa policy for Sikh community
Separately, PM Imran announced that his government would issue multiple and on-arrival visas to the Sikh community and provide them with the maximum possible facilities during pilgrimages to their holy sites.

The prime minister assured the Sikh community that "you will be issued multiple visa… This is our responsibility. We will facilitate you rather will give you visa at airport.

"We will give you multiple visa to facilitate your journey to and from India,” the prime minister said. He added: "We will resolve challenges the Sikh community faces in obtaining visas."


Islam is a religion of peace, has nothing to do with terrorism: PM Imran


Also in attendance were Punjab Governor Chaudhry Muhammad Sarwar, federal and provincial cabinet members, and Sikh pilgrims from the UK, the United States, Canada, Europe, and other countries.

The prime minister said he realised the difficulties foreigners face in obtaining Pakistani visas. "Though our government has changed the visa regime, the mindset of creating hurdles will gradually diminish," he added.

Earlier, it was reported that PM Imran would hold a meeting with the Punjab governor and the provincial chief minister, Usman Buzdar, on various issues. He was also said to chair a high-level meeting of the Punjab government officials at the CM House.

The visit comes amid high tensions in Pakistan over the illegal annexation of Kashmir by New Delhi.

Yup appease appease appease until we get slapped again. After the high visit to US that red carpet was pulled out from his feet. Step back keep appeasing until you see the fire start burning your house. There is saying "a stitch in time saves nine".

 

[cricketrulez]

Yup appease appease appease until we get slapped again. After the high visit to US that red carpet was pulled out from his feet. Step back keep appeasing until you see the fire start burning your house. There is saying "a stitch in time saves nine".

that brings the question. Is it cowardice or capability? IS Pak army conventionally strong enough to take Kashmir while protecting Lahore? If it is cowardice, who is the coward? Bajwa or PMIK?

Back to more non state actors?

 

[omegalamba7XL9]

that brings the question. Is it cowardice or capability? IS Pak army conventionally strong enough to take Kashmir while protecting Lahore? If it is cowardice, who is the coward? Bajwa or PMIK?

Back to more non state actors?

When state cant take hard tough decisions it gives rise to non state actors. You leave a vacuum someone will fill it up.

 

[cricketrulez]

When state cant take hard tough decisions it gives rise to non state actors. You leave a vacuum someone will fill it up.

Nah. non state actors are state sponsored thugs, which give plausible deniability for the state. War is expansive business and non state actors avail themselves to the funds from terrorist govts.

When state cant take hard tough decisions it gives rise to non state actors. You leave a vacuum someone will fill it up.

One consequence of non state actors is that the rest of the state can pay the price. those mechanisms were not available before. Now with FATF and all it s different ball game, where is state can be crippled for decades due to dumb thugs.

 

[Arsalan 345]

Modi has changed the entire system,entire India pakistan relationship in a hurry.this wasn't expected from India but now we are dealing with a real enemy who will never even give us our lost territory if war happens.first of all,war is not an option for Pakistan and why it's not an option is a long discussion.second now war is always an option for India and their behavior suggests that they will start a limited war next time( until next bomb blast).

Question is why unexpected indian decisions put us in this situation? We weren't prepared.we thought that Kashmir is always a issue between pakistan and india.india has changed everything.we are in this terrible situation just because of poor strategy and terrible economy.there is clearly no strategy to deal with India once it attack us.only strategy is to defend.my question is what is the purpose of cpec and what is the purpose of close military cooperation with China? Clearly only way to defeat India is to involve China but I don't think that there is any strategy which is extremely poor considering our good relations with China.

Other terrible problem is economy.you are right.we are in this situation because we always talk about kashmir but when reaction was required,we remained silent because we have destroyed our country and corruption is the major reason.where are we standing as a country in the world now? We have failed in every department.india has used our terrible economy to her advantage.

Every Pakistani want a strategy.involve china.tell the importance of Kashmir to china.south China Sea will become battleground soon between China and America.only path to reach Arabian ocean is pakistan and China should understand the importance of pakistan.if India annexed our Kashmir,it will reach Afghanistan.end of path for Arabian ocean for China and without trade,Chinese economy will suffer badly.we must persuade them for joint military operation for kashmir.india needs a lesson.

 

[B.K.N]

You have failed to provide
Security
Prosperity
Future for next generation
Economy

Either you can have all these things or war you can't get both
And war is game of elite common Pakistanis don't have any interest in India or politics
And if you want to fight for Kashmir why you don't cross LOC and fight for Kashmir
Why you need approval of general Bajwa or Imran Khan
Or you think because soldiers are getting paid about 20 thousands monthly that's why they should sacrifice their lives

 

[omegalamba7XL9]

Either you can have all these things or war you can't get both
And war is game of elite common Pakistanis don't have any interest in India or politics
And if you want to fight for Kashmir why you don't cross LOC and fight for Kashmir
Why you need approval of general Bajwa or Imran Khan
Or you think because soldiers are getting paid about 20 thousands monthly that's why they should sacrifice their lives

Because I remember and read about many who were sent to gitmo because they didn't agree to Musharraf. What's the guarantee that if one chooses to cross the LOC they wont be arrested and put behind bars? Can you give that guarantee?Can PM or Army cheif can give that guarantee?

 

[cricketrulez]

Because I remember and read about many who were sent to gitmo because they didn't agree to Musharraf. What's the guarantee that if one chooses to cross the LOC they wont be arrested and put behind bars? Can you give that guarantee?Can PM or Army cheif can give that guarantee?

you cross into another country w/o permission, of course you are going to get locked up or worse.

 

[Arsalan 345]

Because I remember and read about many who were sent to gitmo because they didn't agree to Musharraf. What's the guarantee that if one chooses to cross the LOC they wont be arrested and put behind bars? Can you give that guarantee?Can PM or Army cheif can give that guarantee?

Pakistan alone can't continue war for long time.if we want to defeat India and even annex parts of India,we need strategy.india is common enemy of both China and pakistan.india knows that calling Kashmir bilateral will solve no problem and bilateral means no third party intervention.india is basically scared of third party intervention.why are we not exploiting indian weakness? Clearly we can win any war against India if pla fight alongside with Pak army and this is what I want.i want Pak army to persuade China to fight this war.trust me,nobody can save India if both of us combine against common enemy.

 

[B.K.N]

What's the guarantee that if one chooses to cross the LOC they wont be arrested and put behind bars?

Internet warrior is afraid of getting arrested but wants entire Pakistan to suffer
Don't worry getting arrested in Pakistan isn't big deal
And I don't think the person who is afraid of getting arrested can fight

 

[omegalamba7XL9]

Internet warrior is afraid of getting arrested but wants entire Pakistan to suffer
Don't worry getting arrested in Pakistan isn't big deal
And I don't think the person who is afraid of getting arrested can fight

I was trying to make a point. Well many of those sent to gitmo by Musharraf are now making the deal with US. And no one cares about being arrested it's the humiliation campaign that follows is not acceptable for dignified person at all.