War is always an option to utilize wether you like it or not

[masterchief_mirza]

I would like to ask this question why war is not an option if its not then
1. Disband military and give Kashmir to India and spend that money towards economy and let's live like a bitch
2. Name one country on the planet which didnt witness war. War is a reality in which we live in. Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Rohingya, Lebanon, Palestine, Kashmir that's a lot of war declared on muslims.
3. Name one country without military ?

So Mr PM and foreign minister war is always an option not for you maybe not for 5% elite but not he case with average Pakistani.
You have failed to provide
Security
Prosperity
Future for next generation
Economy
Kashmir solution
Now please for goodness sake dont live in fairy land if you think war is not option then you have lost the touch with ground realities and feeling of normal Pakistani. If you continue on this path you will be sidelined just like political elite as well as dictators because you cant suppress the feelings of people. You say the exact thing about Kashmir but fail to realize the feeling of normal Pakistani.
You watched and tweeted and phone called the world while average Pakistani showed you last Friday that your govt and some people have lost touch with public sentiment.
No policy on Kashmir it's almost a month and govt is starting to step back from half measured aggressiveness that was there in the beginning. Why you want 370 restored? Even I can give 5 point agenda before any talk for future
1. Lift the curfew immediately
2. Release of all leaders huryiat or otherwise
3. Move army out of cities and towns on Kashmir.
4. Let UN humanitarian organizations in Kashmir
5. No more one on one talks but under P5+ 1( 5 Permanent members + Germany) and then we move forward.
Instead of intense workout please work on moving around getting things done. Even I can post thread after thread and call and email and tweet like you.

I completely agree with your overriding sentiment. IK has at times disappointed me while SMQ is an outright perfidous traitor. All they should do is be constructively ambiguous and say repeatedly: all options are on the table, we reserve the right to protect our national interests as is deemed necessary etc etc.

It is tactically very very foolish to take certain options publicly "off the table". Such statements achieve no political mileage, do not improve our reputation in any significant or useful way, and at worst can seriously hamstring us if we are obliged to "keep our promise" regardless of what the enemy does. It's just getting stupider and stupider the crap that is coming out of these politicians' mouths.

I've said it before and I will repeat it: if nothing beneficial can be said, then stay silent.

 

[omegalamba7XL9]

Hi,

Then the next reason is because of the Paf---. Paf is weak---it is running around 150 aircraft short---.

If it would have bought the aircraft in a timely manner---and was flying at full force + 20%---india would not have taken this step of annexing Kashmir---.

You have to understand the tactical reason behind the annexation---.

The reaction on the 26th and the 27th was that of cowardice by the PAF---. Indians were testing the ground---they presented their very important assets on a platter to assess what the Paf is going to do---.

They presented their most advanced submarine to our air force and they also presented 6-8 of their aircraft to us to shoot down---just to test the waters prior to that major major decision of annexation---.

And I say again---it was because of the cowardice of the Paf to strike when the enemy had pulled its pants down showed it to the indian govt that the Paf does not have the courage to see a real confrontation with real aircraft---ie---the SU30's and the Mirage 2K's---.

They git this straggler the obsolete Mig21 BIS and shot it down---.

If the Paf had real ballz as they claim that they have---no SU30 or no Mirage2K that was in the range would have flown back to its base---it would have splashed in the mountains---.

And that Scorpene sub---that would be sitting on the floor of the arabian seas---.

Now---is this the answer that you were looking for---?

And today when PM was AHQ he must've been told yeah" we can defend any aggression " and result our PM comes out and says "we wont do first strike". I'm amazed at how we are stepping back one step at a time and dont realize it
To your point I wonder and ponder over the same thing what if we did escalate on 27th and got rid of all those Indian assets you mentioned then surely Modi would've lost the elections and we would never face this situation now. Because our great PM miscalculated about Modi and we didnt respond with full force and helped Modi win the election we face this situation now. Now same PM is telling us raising this agenda on global level will somehow convince Modi to do justice to Kashmiris(another wet dream).

 

[MastanKhan]

We also witnessed war since TTP and its been more than a decade of it, 60,000+ dead, war in this modern age isn't only when two armies charge on each other face to face. TTP and other such groups have been instruments of war for our enemies.

Hi,

We got the losses because we called it upon us---. We never acted in a timely manner against the terrorists---.

And today when PM was AHQ he must've been told yeah" we can defend any aggression " and result our PM comes out and says "we wont do first strike". I'm amazed at how we are stepping back one step at a time and dont realize it
To your point I wonder and ponder over the same thing what if we did escalate on 27th and got rid of all those Indian assets you mentioned then surely Modi would've lost the elections and we would never face this situation now. Because our great PM miscalculated about Modi and we didnt respond with full force and helped Modi win the election we face this situation now. Now same PM is telling us raising this agenda on global level will somehow convince Modi to do justice to Kashmiris(another wet dream).

Hi,

Pakistanis are brain washed by the Paf---. They cannot hear anything against it---.

Because there is no one in pakistan who knows what to say to the Paf heirarchy and talk to them---. No one even knows that there is a problem at Paf---Paf has hypnotized the pakistani public---.

 

[omegalamba7XL9]

We also witnessed war since TTP and its been more than a decade of it, 60,000+ dead, war in this modern age isn't only when two armies charge on each other face to face. TTP and other such groups have been instruments of war for our enemies.

Even in this scenario it's a joke PM tweeted that you cant talk to Nazi ideology of Hitler and then SMQ comes out and say there could be talks. Like wtf is our policy. Is the govt playing with Pakistani people's sentiment. If they are then they will pay for it and I'm not making threat I'm nobody but history says it that you dont respect public then public will throw you out.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

And today when PM was AHQ he must've been told yeah" we can defend any aggression " and result our PM comes out and says "we wont do first strike". I'm amazed at how we are stepping back one step at a time and dont realize it
To your point I wonder and ponder over the same thing what if we did escalate on 27th and got rid of all those Indian assets you mentioned then surely Modi would've lost the elections and we would never face this situation now. Because our great PM miscalculated about Modi and we didnt respond with full force and helped Modi win the election we face this situation now. Now same PM is telling us raising this agenda on global level will somehow convince Modi to do justice to Kashmiris(another wet dream).

Exactly. Nobody is actually listening so pm and fm can bark all they want about how loving and peaceful we are. None of this will make the world intervene. IN FACT, THE CONTRARY IS TRUE! Cocking a gun and pointing it to the head of Hindustan is PRECISELY what would force an intervention.

Sometimes IK says the right things, but then he seems to take 2 steps back whenever he is given the chance to do so.

 

[Ra's al Ghul]

war is an option, but its not the only option. just look at afghan taliban. US is bending its knee. so wth india is ?

 

[MastanKhan]

And today when PM was AHQ he must've been told yeah" we can defend any aggression " and result our PM comes out and says "we wont do first strike". I'm amazed at how we are stepping back one step at a time and dont realize it
To your point I wonder and ponder over the same thing what if we did escalate on 27th and got rid of all those Indian assets you mentioned then surely Modi would've lost the elections and we would never face this situation now. Because our great PM miscalculated about Modi and we didnt respond with full force and helped Modi win the election we face this situation now. Now same PM is telling us raising this agenda on global level will somehow convince Modi to do justice to Kashmiris(another wet dream).

Hi,

That is correct---the indians would have said " WTF---they destroyed 8 of our Su30's and M2k's and our submarine---what the fck they have---"---and the eyes of their supporter israel would have also popped out---and they would be be scratching their heads---and caliming---" WTF---where did we go wrong in assessing the Paf---thes fckrs are monsters---we underestimated their strike back capability---they are a ways ahead of where we thought they would be---"---.

As I have stated before---the 27th was a drama staged by Paf for show---they staged it to calm down the pakistan public for their incompetence on the 26th night---.

And that THINK TANK member who was supposedly depressed after reading my post then---sonny boy---if I told you about the real inside story---you may do something drastic---.

If the pakistani public had not screamed---Paf would have written the action down as just an incursion---.

war is an option, but its not the only option. just look at afghan taliban. US is bending its knee. so wth india is ?

Hi,

US is not bending its knee---it is done with this venture---it wants to find new killing fields where there is fresh meat to kill and land to destroy---.

 

[cocomo]

We got the losses because we called it upon us---. We
never acted in a timely manner against the terrorists---.

It took time to sway public's opinion against TTP. I remember a good chunk of people sympathizing with their brutality because they were doing in the cause of Sharia, leaders like Fazl ul Rahman and Munawar Hasan of Jamat e Islami calling the leader of TTP Hakimullha Mehsud a martyr. APS was a major turning point, post that Army hasn't pulled any punches.

Even in this scenario it's a joke PM tweeted that you cant talk to Nazi ideology of Hitler and then SMQ comes out and say there could be talks. Like wtf is our policy. Is the govt playing with Pakistani people's sentiment. If they are then they will pay for it and I'm not making threat I'm nobody but history says it that you dont respect public then public will throw you out.

Pakistan should play the long game any erratic reactive policy will be akin to falling into their trap. I think Imran is doing alright so far. On diplomatic front Pakistan has been quite successful, here is an excerpt from MK. Bhadrakumar's latest piece Asian Century bypasses Modi's India .

"
Not all the waters in the Ganges can clean the accumulating filth of the comparisons being bandied about in the wold media between Modi’s India and Nazi Germany. We are going to get even more of all that when the European Parliament meets tomorrow to exchange views on the situation in J&K.

Delhi got the tip-off that the Azad Kashmir Prime Minister Raja Farooq Haider will be present at the European Parliament when it will discuss the Kashmir issue on September 2. So, External Affairs Minister S. Jaishankar gets through to Brussels post-haste in the weekend with tons of detergent powder to sanitise the lobby. Raja Farooq Haider versus Subrahmanyam Jaishankar: nothing could more graphically highlight the tragedy of Indian diplomacy today.
"

 

[omegalamba7XL9]

Hi,

That is correct---the indians would have said " WTF---they destroyed 8 of our Su30's and M2k's and our submarine---what the fck they have---"---and the eyes of their supporter israel would have also popped out---and they would be be scratching their heads---and caliming---" WTF---where did we go wrong in assessing the Paf---thes fckrs are monsters---we underestimated their strike back capability---they are a ways ahead of where we thought they would be---"---.

As I have stated before---the 27th was a drama staged by Paf for show---they staged it to calm down the pakistan public for their incompetence on the 26th night---.

And that THINK TANK member who was supposedly depressed after reading my post then---sonny boy---if I told you about the real inside story---you may do something drastic---.

If the pakistani public had not screamed---Paf would have written the action down as just an incursion---.



Hi,

US is not bending its knee---it is done with this venture---it wants to find new killing fields where there is fresh meat to kill and land to destroy---.

As I mentioned before we should get global award for always missing opportunities. The problem lies within the mindset which is tactical and never strategical.
Well today Talib's did get the deal signed with gun on US head because Kundoos attack forced US to sign quickly in a way. But US is big power and that is reality that they are leaving because they want too.

 

[V. Makarov]

Six years after the migration to Medina, Prophet Muhammad (SAW) said that he wanted to perform Umrah. Outside Mecca he and 1400 of his followers camped and sent Hazrat Usman to dialogue with the Quraish so that they be allowed to perform Umrah.

During the time Hazrat Usman was in Mecca to negotiate, a rumor spread that Usman (R.A) has been killed. Prophet Muhammad (SAW) proclaimed this to be an ultimatum by the Quraish. The prophet of Allah asked his 1400 followers to renew their pledge to fight until death to avenge the murder of Usman (R.A).

Turns out Usman (RA) was detained by the the Quraish, and when they saw the determination of the Muslims, they sent Usman (R.A) along with an ambassador to negotiate the legendary treaty of Hudaybiyya.

The treaty of Hudaybiyya in the Quran has been mentioned as "MANIFEST VICTORY".
Just 2 years after the treaty, conquest of Mecca took place and the Holy Mecca was with the Muslims.

You see, Allah is the one who will decide the time when we have to fight. If the defeat of the Hindus is ordained to be by the hands of Muslims of Pakistan, then there is nothing that can stop Pakistan.

 

[jericho]

Then let's live like Singapore lets close our eyes and wish our neighborhood becomes like Singapore and even they are threatened by Indonesia and felt the need for Israeli to train their army. PS it's only in 1989 that British left Singapore so not a comparison at all

Lol, you dont know anything about other country, but yeah I understand you dont like the idea of living like a high income developed country and much rather compare yourself to Afghan Iraq and Yemen, so go ahead and aim to live in those places

 

[omegalamba7XL9]

Six years after the migration to Medina, Prophet Muhammad (SAW) said that he wanted to perform Umrah. Outside Mecca he and 1400 of his followers camped and sent Hazrat Usman to dialogue with the Quraish so that they be allowed to perform Umrah.

During the time Hazrat Usman was in Mecca to negotiate, a rumor spread that Usman (R.A) has been killed. Prophet Muhammad (SAW) proclaimed this to be an ultimatum by the Quraish. The prophet of Allah asked his 1400 followers to renew their pledge to fight until death to avenge the murder of Usman (R.A).

Turns out Usman (RA) was detained by the the Quraish, and when they saw the determination of the Muslims, they sent Usman (R.A) along with an ambassador to negotiate the legendary treaty of Hudaybiyya.

The treaty of Hudaybiyya in the Quran has been mentioned as "MANIFEST VICTORY".
Just 2 years after the treaty, conquest of Mecca took place and the Holy Mecca was with the Muslims.

You see, Allah is the one who will decide the time when we have to fight. If the defeat of the Hindus is ordained to be by the hands of Muslims of Pakistan, then there is nothing that can stop Pakistan.

That shows that once you are willing to fight and show your strength it gives enemy something to think about. No doubt Allah hold over everything but it's your choice you can be either like the example you gave be ready to fight for principal and even one soul. Or you can be like Bani Israel described in Holy Quran where Allah asked them to fight and they would make up all reasons not to fight even they were given specific instructions.
Both examples are there we have to choose wether we follow holy prophet 's(may peace be upon him) actions or bani Israel's described in holy Quran trying to make up every reason not to fight and wait for Angel to bring down special instructions from heaven for us.

Lol, you dont know anything about other country, but yeah I understand you dont like the idea of living like a high income developed country and much rather compare yourself to Afghan Iraq and Yemen, so go ahead and aim to live in those places

Yup and so do you live in high income developed country at a bargain of blood of your brother. No wonder why you think like that. Look at Libya before war and after war. Look at Syria before war and after war. They had nice buildings and have oil suppose to be prospering countries now look at them. I dunno but yes my friend you do know. You even know better than the founding father of this country because you said right your kind love high income that's the standard. Even a prostitute/pornstars got lots of money but where are the standards. She is highly paid and prosperous but at a cost of selling herself

 

[MastanKhan]

That shows that once you are willing to fight and show your strength it gives enemy something to think about. No doubt Allah hold over everything but it's your choice you can be either like the example you gave be ready to fight for principal and even one soul. Or you can be like Bani Israel described in Holy Quran where Allah asked them to fight and they would make up all reasons not to fight even they were given specific instructions.
Both examples are there we have to choose wether we follow holy prophet 's(may peace be upon him) actions or bani Israel's described in holy Quran trying to make up every reason not to fight and wait for Angel to bring down special instructions from heaven for us.


Yup and so do you live in high income developed country at a bargain of blood of your brother. No wonder why you think like that. Look at Libya before war and after war. Look at Syria before war and after war. They had nice buildings and have oil suppose to be prospering countries now look at them. I dunno but yes my friend you do know. You even know better than the founding father of this country because you said right your kind love high income that's the standard. Even a prostitute/pornstars got lots of money but where are the standards. She is highly paid and prosperous but at a cost of selling herself

Hi,

Thank you for bringing that up---.

That is what the Paf was on the 2th---. The enemy presented itself on a platter to see what the Paf could do---.

The only thing the Paf did was give away all its secrets to the indians and Israel---.

Hey Think Tank member---there is more depressing news boy---can you handle it---.

I don't recall your screen name---.

 

[jericho]

Look at Libya before war and after war. Look at Syria before war and after war. They had nice buildings and have oil suppose to be prospering countries now look at them

and yet you want war?

Yup and so do you live in high income developed country at a bargain of blood of your brother.

And you want to satisfy your war ego and become like Libya Yemen at the bargain of the citizens of the country who just want a good life?

Even a prostitute/pornstars got lots of money but where are the standards.

the current condition of Pak where high instability, high corruption, lack of any law and order because we either went through coup, or had corrupt leaders or participate in wars , thats why we have such pathetic economy and have to go to IMF and other countries to bail us out, i dont know about prostitute but only beggars ask for money, and anyone who earns money by themselves have more self worth and self respect than someone who have to beg

you said right your kind love high income that's the standard

a government's job is to provide a good standard of living to its citizen, that doesnt only mean high income, it also mean good law and order, rewarding people who are competent, have its people live in harmony and enable them to make money and have a good life, all these are only possible if you have peace and stability in your country

 

[omegalamba7XL9]

and yet you want war?


And you want to satisfy your war ego and become like Libya Yemen at the bargain of the citizens of the country who just want a good life?


the current condition of Pak where high instability, high corruption, lack of any law and order because we either went through coup, or had corrupt leaders or participate in wars , thats why we have such pathetic economy and have to go to IMF and other countries to bail us out, i dont know about prostitute but only beggars ask for money, and anyone who earns money by themselves have more self worth and self respect than someone who have to beg


a government's job is to provide a good standard of living to its citizen, that doesnt only mean high income, it also mean good law and order, rewarding people who are competent, have its people live in harmony and enable them to make money and have a good life, all these are only possible if you have peace and stability in your country

I dont want war but I dont want to be told it's not an option and we should suck it up because we are told too like bhair bakriyan. If Qaddafi listened to his people and so did Asad and so did Saddam then those countries would never be in this situation. No leader wether democratically elected or dictator can survive if he loses touch with ground reality. Did you ever see Pakistani coming out in streets for electricity, economy, accountability or any other issue when compared to the spirit of the country you saw on 14th and 15th August as well as last Friday. That my friend is public opinion which you are choosing to neglect and I'm merely pointing out.
Pakistan was not beggar until certain politicians were shoved into our politics wether directly incase of Nawaz Sharif or indirectly by making Benazir leader by killing her father. So who you wanna blame now public or the elite who caused these conditions for blood sucking leeches to suck Pakistan dry. Didnt Musharraf also gave NRO and brought the same curse back did he ask average Pakistani.
So no my friend Pakistan is not beggar but that 5% elite who begs for money power and as you said have their family settle in high income developed countries.
Unfortunately no government does the job for Pakistani people but only for their party and their selfish desires.