Views of ex-COAS on army’s ‘combat worthiness’ quoted ‘out of context’: ISPR

[Imran Khan]

LMAO... They just confirmed this by issuing denial. How hard was to keep their mouth shut?

hamary yahan kehty hain JAB KISI KI MAAT MARI JAAY TO YEHI HOTA HAI .

 

[maithil]

hamary yahan kehty hain JAB KISI KI MAAT MARI JAAY TO YEHI HOTA HAI .

Hahaha.. Kya Chu** log hain.. Kaise pahuch jate hain itna upar ..

 

[Imran Khan]

Hahaha.. Kya Chu** log hain.. Kaise pahuch jate hain itna upar ..

khushamad ker ke

 

[Signalian]

15 days are standard fuel supply, part of the old strategy. But not necessarily Pak-India goes nuclear after 10 days, well if they burn all their launching assets.

You are counting it wrongly.

1. Operationally, the max range of the MBT is what it will reach to or less. Say the range is 400km, thats all the MBT will amount for before it gets destroyed or the attack loses momentum. Why ? Because PA cannot sustain a major Armored offensive on Indian territory and also cannot maintain a long supply line of logistics. So whether you count on days as 15 or 20, that is insignificant since days don’t ascertain the advance of Armored formation in case of India-Pakistan war. PA Armor would be lucky if it crosses 50 km into India and captures a worthwhile salient.

I have explained peacetime excercises already and tagged a member who can give info on multi fuel engines as I reckon diesel isn’t the only source of fuel for PA MBTs.

2. Why is Bajwa pointing towards India and why should his words be taken to the heart when current COAS is someone else. TTP is a threat circumvented from India but a conventional war isn’t on cards and the closest it gets is LOC. so why point towards India and not TTP.


3. The war is in western sector where PA is supposed to be bogged down but it isn’t coz FC and other LEAs are deputed on IBOs while what PA really needs are helicopters and more UAVs for ops against TTP. The acquisition of UAVs is in progress while PA isn’t raising anymore light or airborne formations since FC has been expanded and modernised to take over COIN tasks completely yet the results are not what they seem.

 

[Riz]

Morons never won a single war but conquered the govt multiple times , begiarat nasal buzdil generals

 

[iLION12345_1]

@iLION12345_1
PA MBTs use multi fuel engines I reckon ?

All PA MBTs sans Type 59 and 69 use Multi-fuel engines. The remaining two use Diesel only.

 

[Signalian]

All PA MBTs sans Type 59 and 69 use Multi-fuel engines. The remaining two use Diesel only.

Thank you

 

[HAIDER]

You are counting it wrongly.

1. Operationally, the max range of the MBT is what it will reach to or less. Say the range is 400km, thats all the MBT will amount for before it gets destroyed or the attack loses momentum. Why ? Because PA cannot sustain a major Armored offensive on Indian territory and also cannot maintain a long supply line of logistics. So whether you count on days as 15 or 20, that is insignificant since days don’t ascertain the advance of Armored formation in case of India-Pakistan war. PA Armor would be lucky if it crosses 50 km into India and captures a worthwhile salient.

I have explained peacetime excercises already and tagged a member who can give info on multi fuel engines as I reckon diesel isn’t the only source of fuel for PA MBTs.

2. Why is Bajwa pointing towards India and why should his words be taken to the heart when current COAS is someone else. TTP is a threat circumvented from India but a conventional war isn’t on cards and the closest it gets is LOC. so why point towards India and not TTP.


3. The war is in western sector where PA is supposed to be bogged down but it isn’t coz FC and other LEAs are deputed on IBOs while what PA really needs are helicopters and more UAVs for ops against TTP. The acquisition of UAVs is in progress while PA isn’t raising anymore light or airborne formations since FC has been expanded and modernised to take over COIN tasks completely yet the results are not what they seem.

Even , all the above is correct. But do you think Bajwa should explain the PA weaknesses to journalists? .....And lots of saying about a weak or cowardly General and brave army.

But yes, PA needs a lot of improvement in the Sindh sector, but Kashmir and Lahore front is a cakewalk/ resistance but at lesser rate for Pakistan. I think its time for Pakistan to adopt light cheap weapon strategy like Iran. A low budget army with light weapons, drones, and missiles.

 

[iLION12345_1]

Oil grade from Ukraine is also a discussion for a topic, so are multi fuel engines.

“Additionally, though the engines are multifuel diesels and run on any fuel, they are optimized to function with a particular grade of oil lubricant only available from Ukraine.”

@iLION12345_1
Need your comment on this.

Note the word: optimized.
They can run with other lubricant oils, but the one from Ukraine is the best for them. Increases reliability and service life, considerably in some cases.

Ukraine has had trouble delivering said oil, among many other things, far before this war started, something PA has been aware of and trying to remedy, the war only sped up this process. It’s one of the reasons I said earlier that we might see UDs being retired prematurely. It’s also why PA is trying to fit Chinese power plants into AK series and 6TD-2E from AK into T80UD in place of its 6TD-1. Again, all of this the PA was doing far before the war started.

Do PA tanks commonly break down due to shortage of said oil? Yes and No, Only the UD commonly faces this problem. The report about 30 tanks breaking down in a month, though it claims all are AKs, I’d wager 80% were UDs. The UDs use the same transmission as the AK with an even more unreliable engine.

6TD-1 engine in UD is known to be rather unreliable anyways. Hence the attempts to replace it with 6TD-2E (only possible if they are taken out of AKs however, since we can’t make more of said engines. If HIT can figure out a way to put Chinese power plants in AK, both the AK and UD fleets can be sustained, otherwise the UD fleet goes).
And though the AK and the AZs engines also run better with the aforementioned lubricant, they face less issues running without it, certainly reduced engine life, but not alarmingly so unlike in UD.

As for the transmission, it’s a compromise. On one hand the transmission itself is excellent. Very good acceleration and very good reverse speeds. But it’s also extremely, extremely complex and maintenance heavy. Hence the breakdowns when not given the right lubricants. On the other hand the transmissions in Indian T72 and T90S are absolutely trash at performance, with bad reverse speeds, but they are simple, reliable.

What are PAs solitons to it apart from entirely replacing the engines? Start making the oil themselves or ask China to make it. Both are more possible than they may seem. PA has stocks of the oil. If they don’t have the capacity to make it themselves, send some to China, have them reverse engineer and produce it for you, it’s also something probably being considered, it’s obviously not ideal though.

Thank you

Keep in mind, being multi-fuel doesn’t mean each fuel performs equally. The kind and quality of fuel will significantly impact power output and engine life. AZ and Type 85UG engines are primarily diesels, they can run on other fuels, but not as efficiently. Less of a problem in UD, AK and VT-4.

 

[Signalian]

Even , all the above is correct. But do you think Bajwa should explain the PA weaknesses to journalists? .....And lots of saying about a weak or cowardly General and brave army.

But yes, PA needs a lot of improvement in the Sindh sector, but Kashmir and Lahore front is a cakewalk/ resistance but at lesser rate for Pakistan. I think it’s time for Pakistan to adopt light cheap weapon strategy like Iran. A low budget army with light weapons, drones, and missiles.

Why does it matter what Bajwa says ?
He is done and dusted. He can say that army can’t fight, will India or enemies of Pakistan take him seriously. The intel of both countries keeps close tabs on each others status for war. You want to score brownie points by undermining Bajwa somehow, go ahead and carve out 5 more points against him if that helps restore peace inside you. Get out of small mind thinking or rather stay in it.

My inquisition about his statement stem from his pointing towards India and not TTP unless it’s taken in literal meaning. Secondly drying up LOC. would that be a legitimate reason to focus on western front. Would PA be required to focus on western front when FC and other LEAs are present. Or would PA focus be Chinese preference to protect CPEC routes/areas where other LEAs under perform.

PA won’t go fully light in weaponry and formations. The terrain, strategy, tactics and doctrine doesn’t allow it. Still airborne forces should be increased.

 

[iLION12345_1]

If I am correct, Pak biggest fleet is Chinese made frontline weapons. Even old T series tanks and new induction is also Chinese. But, yes T UDs status is unknown.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1504075349449383938

How is Pakistan’s military equipment affected by the Russian invasion?​

By Usman Ansari
Mar 15, 2022

Pakistan's armored, top-of-the-line tanks take part in a military parade in Islamabad on March 25, 2021. (Aamir Qureshi/AFP via Getty Images)
ISLAMABAD — Despite having acquired key defense equipment from Ukraine since the 1990s, Russia’s invasion of the country will not cause support issues for Pakistan, as this weaponry was already being phased out, an industry source has told Defense News.
The largest Pakistan-Ukrainian defense deal was for 320 T-80UD/Ob’yekt 478BEh tanks, built by the Kharkov Machine Building Design Bureau, or KMDB. The tanks were ordered in 1996 and delivered during the 1997-1999 time frame, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute.
Ukraine’s Malyshev Plant also supplied the 1,200-horsepower 6TD-2 power pack for Pakistan’s Al-Khalid series of tanks, derived from Malyshev’s 1,000-horsepower 6TD powering the T-80UD. Malyshev, like the Kharkov Machine Building Design Bureau, is in Kharkiv, a city under heavy Russian attack.
The International Institute of Strategic Studies lists more than 600 Al-Khalid and Al-Khalid I tanks in service manufactured by Pakistan’s state-owned armored fighting vehicles manufacturer, Heavy Industries Taxila, or HIT. Therefore, one-third to half of Pakistan’s entire tank fleet would potentially be rendered unsupportable if the two factories in Kharkiv are destroyed.
However, an industry source with knowledge of HIT’s ongoing programs, told Defense News Pakistan was already replacing Ukrainian equipment before Russia’s full-scale invasion, which began Feb. 24.
Speaking on the condition of anonymity for security reasons, he said longstanding supply problems had forced Pakistan’s hand.
The main issue was the lack of an active production line at Malyshev for the 6TD and 6TD-2 power packs. It was reactivated on demand, but that inflated contract prices.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pakistan Army Victim to Faulty Ukrainian Oils​

Boris Kamchev - November 21, 2017
Allegedly defective oil produced in Ukraine was blamed for the failure of 30 Pakistan Army tanks last month after similar cases were reported in Ukraine.
The transmission units of the Al-Khalid tanks failed due to substandard oil, according to Pakistani and Ukrainian newspapers. Pakistan defense ministry officials were unavailable to confirm the case to Lube Report Asia.

Ukranian state procurement agency Ukrspetzeksport, which has exclusive rights to export Ukrainian military equipment and products, bought the oil from the Ukrainian lube producer Arian, according to Golos, a Ukrainian news portal. The oil bore the Azmol Garant brand name, which is owned by Agrinol, one of the largest lubricant makers in Ukraine.
Arian previously had a license to sell the oil in question but has not had such a license since 2015, Golos reported. The news site added that Arian nevertheless continued to market that oil and that Ukrspetzeksport favored Arian as its primary oil supplier.
Ukrspetzeksport also provided tank engines to the Pakistani army, Golos reported.
Early this month, Agrinols headquarters in Berdyansk was raided by Ukranian security and anti-corruption units after anonymous calls from Ukrainian Defense Ministry insiders claiming that oil used in the tanks of the countrys armed forces are defective, causing machinery to stall.
A commission found that the tanks in Ukraine failed primarily due to faulty engines. An investigation into the cause of the Pakistani tank failures found the oil to be the main cause.
An Agrinol company official told Lube Report Asia that the firm refutes the accusation that Agrinol sold the oils in question in both cases. These are politically motivated accusations and part of a persistent information war against the companys head, the official siad earlier this month. Agrinol is controlled by a board of directors led by Alexander Ponomarev, a longtime Zaporizhia region deputy in Rada, the Ukrainian parliament.
We dont sell any oils to Pakistan, the official added last week.
The Golos investigation conducted by an independent Ukrainian journalist claimed that Ukrspetzeksport supplied the oils in question for double the price of the original oil. During 2015-2017, the state agency shipped 200 tons of this oil to the Pakistan Army, and it continues to use the services of Arian for its international export procurement contracts.

WLVN is a racist Indian scum who only posts Bullshit. Even when he makes accurate posts they’re inflated so they seem worst than they are. So kindly don’t quote him (even against Bajwa).

PAs tanks can most definitely function without the lubricant, just not as well, especially not the UDs. Russia is always a solution if they are willing to sell it (again, they were already being talked to for deliveries of oil before the war. The war did not change much, Ukraine industry was dead before it) but there are some other solutions, obviously none ideal. Read above post.

Indian armored fleet has been impacted pretty badly by the war too. The T90S ordered by IA have been pressed into service in Ukraine and they are not receiving any spare parts because they haven’t indigenized the tank, while Russia has blocked most exports to solely supply its local forces.

 

[Signalian]

Note the word: optimized.
They can run with other lubricant oils, but the one from Ukraine is the best for them. Increases reliability and service life, considerably in some cases.

Ukraine has had trouble delivering said oil, among many other things, far before this war started, something PA has been aware of and trying to remedy, the war only sped up this process. It’s one of the reasons I said earlier that we might see UDs being retired prematurely. It’s also why PA is trying to fit Chinese power plants into AK series and 6TD-2E from AK into T80UD in place of its 6TD-1. Again, all of this the PA was doing far before the war started.

Do PA tanks commonly break down due to shortage of said oil? Yes and No, Only the UD commonly faces this problem. The report about 30 tanks breaking down in a month, I’d wager 80% were UDs. 6TD-1 is known to be rather unreliable anyways. Hence the attempts to replace it with 6TD-2E (only possible if they are taken out of AKs however, since we can’t make more of said engines. If HIT can figure out a way to put Chinese power plants in AK, both the AK and UD fleets can be sustained, otherwise the UD fleet goes).
And though the AK and the AZs engines also run better with the aforementioned lubricant, they face less issues running without it, certainly reduced engine life, but not alarmingly so unlike in UD.

What are PAs solitons to it apart from entirely replacing the engines? Start making the oil themselves or ask China to make it. Both are more possible than they may seem. PA has stocks of the oil. If they don’t have the capacity to make it themselves, send some to China, have them reverse engineer and produce it for you, it’s also something probably being considered, it’s obviously not ideal though.


Keep in mind, being multi-fuel doesn’t mean each fuel performs equally. The kind and quality of fuel will significantly impact power output and engine life. AZ and Type 85UG engines are primarily diesels, they can run on other fuels, but not as efficiently. Less of a problem in UD, AK and VT-4.

I expect 1st Armored Division and the IABG associated under II-Corps to be re-armed with a different type of MBT.

 

[Friday]

Signalians' Tall and Graceful GCs leaking their pants again with "mathy py paseena and tangain kaanp rhe the".

 

[HAIDER]

I expect 1st Armored Division and the IABG associated under II-Corps to be re-armed with a different type of MBT.

MBT 2000 tank engine ? .... Russian/Ukrainian origin?

WLVN is a racist Indian scum who only posts Bullshit. Even when he makes accurate posts they’re inflated so they seem worst than they are. So kindly don’t quote him (even against Bajwa).

PAs tanks can most definitely function without the lubricant, just not as well, especially not the UDs. Russia is always a solution if they are willing to sell it (again, they were already being talked to for deliveries of oil before the war. The war did not change much, Ukraine industry was dead before it) but there are some other solutions, obviously none ideal. Read above post.

Indian armored fleet has been impacted far worst by the war. The T90S ordered by IA have been pressed into service in Ukraine and they are not receiving any spare parts because they haven’t indigenized the tank, while Russia has blocked most exports to solely supply its local forces.

Well, the Indian fleet is a maintenance nightmare and lacks of crew training.

 

[Signalian]

Signalians' Tall and Graceful GCs leaking their pants again with "mathy py paseena and tangain kaanp rhe the".

Thank you for your input.

Buzz off now.