VIEW: Stop blaming the West

[xdrive]

Free speech is a marvelous thing. I feel sorry for people that don't have it.

 

[Maj. Gel. Tariq khan]

And if Zia dont fight against USSR? After Afganistan, Pakistan too a part of it. They want those warm sea ports like Gwadar and Karachi ports. It is ZIA courage that he fight against them in that poor conditions. Today we dont have a leader with that courage, instead of fight against them they saying,'We cant say them that stop Drone attack, coz we are not capable to fight against them'. With that basted smiling face. Taking money for FATA people blood. Can you tell how much property ZIA had made from govt. money like now yours great leader have.

 

[pak-marine]

And if Zia dont fight against USSR? After Afganistan, Pakistan too a part of it. They want those warm sea ports like Gwadar and Karachi ports. It is ZIA courage that he fight against them in that poor conditions. Today we dont have a leader with that courage, instead of fight against them they saying,'We cant say them that stop Drone attack, coz we are not capable to fight against them'. With that basted smiling face. Taking money for FATA people blood. Can you tell how much property ZIA had made from govt. money like now yours great leader have.

haan ji sahi kaha ap nay Zia sahab kay ehsanat talay hi tu dabay hoay hain hum Pakistani aur in ehsanon ki tadad itni ziada hain kay pori qaum bhugat rahi hai.

your comments are the height of ignorance sir

 

[ice_man]

And if Zia dont fight against USSR? After Afganistan, Pakistan too a part of it. They want those warm sea ports like Gwadar and Karachi ports. It is ZIA courage that he fight against them in that poor conditions. Today we dont have a leader with that courage, instead of fight against them they saying,'We cant say them that stop Drone attack, coz we are not capable to fight against them'. With that basted smiling face. Taking money for FATA people blood. Can you tell how much property ZIA had made from govt. money like now yours great leader have.

ZIA PROMOTED GUN CULTURE DRUG CULTURE!!

MADE MQM,PML(N) and give ***** MULLAHS power!!! divided pakistan along ethnic lines! and you call him
"GOOD"!!!!

 

[Solomon2]

Here is the first story.

While the part about the Egyptian physicist was discussed in the "Deception" book, the rest is speculation.

I have also read Ostrovsky's book. I would guess that engineering a car-crash isn't the Mossad way; too unreliable.

Regarding what I will do with the $1 billion, I will use it to use 50% for charitable causes, 40% for raising and developing a backwater like security agency -

From what I recall of how one Khashoggi got his name on American University's student center, the process goes like this: the person to be bribed states his price, which is then bargained down to between one-fifth and one-third of the original demand. This, the Saudi agrees to, provided it is paid in, say, ten installments.

Then you're hooked, for as little as a paltry $20 million out of your original billion-dollar demand, unless you are willing to wash out your dirty laundry for all to see. In the A.U. case that didn't actually happen until Khashoggi failed to pay an installment. He then claimed if the money was kept in the bank long enough, by the action of compound interest the money pledged would eventually reach the stated pledge. A.U. read over the fine print of the pledge contract and apparently accepted this reasoning; so Khashoggi got his name on the building for only a fraction of the amount he originally pledged.

(contractors as your county calls them) to counter militants and foreign risks in my country.

Of course, since the Saudis are your bankroll, you can only go after the "militants and foreign risks" they approve of, right? That means jailing democrats, Al Qaeda, and pro-Zionists, but leaving the Pakistani Taliban and its madrassas alone to wreak their will among the populace. (Behind the walls of your new mansion you'll be safe - probably! But your children, if they seek to escape your walls and campaign for a democratic country, what will happen to them?)

I will sue the remaining %10 on my family and friends.

Now that is simply uncharitable and mean-spirited. You'll be left without friends or family. The Saudis who bribed you wouldn't be your friends; you'd hate them for pulling you on a string. And as a newly-minted millionaire who has dumped his family, how could you build a new one and really trust that they weren't just associating with you for your money?

 

[Old School]

Every child is systematically brainwashed to hate the West in Pakistan and in other Muslim nations and society. When this child grows up , it translates the world according to the doctrine planted in it's mind since birth. Therefore, it is very difficult for a child grown up in Muslim country not to hate and blame West for every misfortune. The social configuration in the Islamic world hardly accommodate independent thinking. While we kill each other , we continue to blame the West for everything in order to wash the dirt from our own hands. This is a very tragic and vicious cycle. One must go through deep intellectual cleansing to get rid of this syndrome as a result of the systematic social brainwashing.

 

[T-Faz]

For Gods sake, I was brought up in Pakistan, went to school there and I can vehemently deny that the society forces or teaches us to hate the west or infidels. My upbringing was heavily influenced by American culture, it was my favourite country and we all aped everything western especifically American.

I have though now undrstood that many people in the west and our neighbourhood are sustemically brainwashed to beleive that all of us Muslims are only brought up to kill and hate them.

A spade for a spade.

@Solomon, how do you know all this about the buying out system, do you work with those kind of people. Do you work for AIPAC or some other powerful organisation.

 

[sab]

After watching Taliban failing in Afghanistan, I have come to a conclusion that you cannot "force" Idealogy.

One thing to note here that the masses of Pakistan (who have very little presence online) are uneducated. If an Ideology shift has to occur, it should come from within. As we argue that you cannot force Islamic laws on people similarly you cannot force other ideas either. Forcing Ideas usually make people suffer from identity crisis.

Education seems to be the only option here. Every thing else (name changing) can come later.

Most practical view....

BTW, whats there in a name....

 

[RollingStones]

For Gods sake, I was brought up in Pakistan, went to school there and I can vehemently deny that the society forces or teaches us to hate the west or infidels. My upbringing was heavily influenced by American culture, it was my favourite country and we all aped everything western especifically American.

I have though now undrstood that many people in the west and our neighbourhood are sustemically brainwashed to beleive that all of us Muslims are only brought up to kill and hate them.

A spade for a spade.

@Solomon, how do you know all this about the buying out system, do you work with those kind of people. Do you work for AIPAC or some other powerful organisation.

It is pretty clear that money from Saudi renegades and Zia's leadership is what turned a moderately Islamic pakistan into an extremely Islamic country. Other countries such as Malaysia, Egypt, Turkey, India, Indonesia have prospered by adopting and advocating a moderate version of Islam. I think the current regimes are trying to get Pakistan back into the moderate Islamic version and the fundamentalists are resisting that by blowing up everything in their sight. The war lines in today's Pakistan are alarmingly clear - people who want a moderate Islam against hard line Jihadists, both in the civil and military areas. I am 100% positive that most Pakistani people want a moderately Islamic Pakistan. But will the hardliners in the Pakistani civil and military areas give up without a fight? Only time will tell.

 

[Solomon2]

I can vehemently deny that the society forces or teaches us to hate the west or infidels.

I asked him question after question about the Taliban -- why do they do the things they do? Finally he had enough: "Listen, if you Americans don't stop pestering us about the Taliban, we'll give them the nuclear bomb. How would you like that?"
Report from Haqqani Madrassa

@Solomon, how do you know all this about the buying out system, do you work with those kind of people.

No, it was in the news. Some of it is here.

Do you work for AIPAC or some other powerful organisation.

No. Do you think I should?

 

[Solomon2]

It is pretty clear that money from Saudi renegades and Zia's leadership is what turned a moderately Islamic pakistan into an extremely Islamic country.

The Pakistani leadership was virulently anti-Israel long before that and the populace began nursing conspiracy theories of Western betrayals since at least 1965, when America refused to support Bhutto's goal of conquering Kashmir.

 

[T-Faz]

I asked him question after question about the Taliban -- why do they do the things they do? Finally he had enough: "Listen, if you Americans don't stop pestering us about the Taliban, we'll give them the nuclear bomb. How would you like that?"
Report from Haqqani Madrassa

Well if you want an honest opinion, the people of US are much respected and we are heavily influenced by american culture though we have a lot of reservations about the government and your leaders, I am sure you do too.

No. Do you think I should?

Yes you should for the foreign relation department, specifically the Pakistan department.

 

[T-Faz]

The Pakistani leadership was virulently anti-Israel long before that and the populace began nursing conspiracy theories of Western betrayals since at least 1965, when America refused to support Bhutto's goal of conquering Kashmir.

Thats how you look at it and US will suffer because of this negative thinking that its citizens harbor.

 

[RollingStones]

Well if you want an honest opinion, the people of US are much respected and we are heavily influenced by american culture though we have a lot of reservations about the government and your leaders, I am sure you do too.



Yes you should for the foreign relation department, specifically the Pakistan department.

There is some truth to what T-Faz says. Look Pakistan calls one of its parliamentary houses as Senate and the American influence is palpable when their security forces and emergency personnel wear T-Shirts with their organization's name on them - a typical American influence. Pakistan also has a citizen database system and calls its central government the Federal Government and the internal investigation agency, the FIA. If you look at India, all these idiosyncracies are absent, because India's governance concepts were drawn from the UK and USSR, and India used the word Central a lot. It appears that Pakistan in its formative years actually wanted to model itself on American governance systems. This may have been because America may have had deep influence on its formative leaders, especially as a counter to India, which was thought of as having tilted over to the USSR side. But, somewhere the Saudi renegades and Zia stepped in, and swoosh, we have Afghan problems, Kashmir insurgency, extremist indoctrination, mushrooming of Madrassahs and Pakistan ends up losing its way.

 

[RollingStones]

There is some truth to what T-Faz says. Look Pakistan calls one of its parliamentary houses as Senate and the American influence is palpable when their security forces and emergency personnel wear T-Shirts with their organization's name on them - a typical American influence. Pakistan also has a citizen database system and calls its central government the Federal Government and the internal investigation agency, the FIA. If you look at India, all these idiosyncracies are absent, because India's governance concepts were drawn from the UK and USSR, and India used the word Central a lot. It appears that Pakistan in its formative years actually wanted to model itself on American governance systems. This may have been because America may have had deep influence on its formative leaders, especially as a counter to India, which was thought of as having tilted over to the USSR side. But, somewhere the Saudi renegades and Zia stepped in, and swoosh, we have Afghan problems, Kashmir insurgency, extremist indoctrination, mushrooming of Madrassahs and Pakistan ends up losing its way.

Another evidence is Pakistan was more open to imports, more capitalistic and more growth oriented than India was until the 1990s, again a choosing of American capitalist system over the Soviet type closed end system that India follows. Heck, even their Armed forces run companies and use business proceeds to fund themselves and arms purchases, an out-of-the-box solution, largely seen in US style economics than closed countries such as USSR/UK. To me, it is evident that Pakistan wanted to be like Indonesia, Malaysia or Turkey (all follow US Style economics and are moderate Muslims), but got hijacked by Zia and his dirty Saudi dollars.