VIEW: Stop blaming the West

[deepak75]

And you are retaliating ever since.. thats the problem move on.

We didnt start in 65, we retaliated.

We retaliated for what you started in 1947 by taking Kashmir.

and this conflict is going on ever since,
until it doesnt stop
I will keep blaming East.

Cheers

Ahhhh..... my mistake my friend. I thought we were getting somewhere in our discussion.

I already realize that I am discussing the wrong history with you. Of course you should be blaming us. Afterall Gen. Zia ensured that in the history texts.

May be we can agree again sometime in the future. All the best bro.

 

[apophenia]

Ironically, these custodians of public wisdom regularly speak in scholarly tones about the factors that plague the psyche of an average Pakistani. Everything is examined and blamed except the elephant in the room, themselves. Assuming bhutto /wahabi/zia/US/india or the jokers with the guns in hands who strap a bomb on their own chest actually give a **** to what is taught in Islam, and have read it Koran at all, and whom they are hurting is grossly dishonest.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

They came from deep within the Hell and this is where they will go again.

Classify it as a rant aswell try to reply without using the words bigot and pseudo. Thank You

i dont care from where they came & where they will go but they are certainly not part of this discussion

bringing them in here is indeed ranting & reflection of homophobic attitude

 

[Saleem]

I think the major problem is ego of the rulers (I dont they qualify as leaders). they want to control everything and be boss of everything - everything must be done at their whims - "in relaxation of rules" is the normal rule.

I dont think you can blame any of the martial laws for any problems. period. the politicians chose army chiefs who they thought would be tools in their hand i.e. people who were of poor moral calibre and no integrity of character - we know zia was the juniormost and otherwise deemed unsuitable to be chief, same with musharaff he has himself said that when he saw his service file on becoming chief he was surprised how he became chief given the reports and assessments made about him.

mr bhutto chose zia as he seemed the most servile; also mr bhutto did not implement the recommendations by the commissions about reforming defense structure i.e. forming CDS (Chief of defense staff) or joint staff hq etc.

where there was tussle among the the politicians and normal rules were applied by default NO coups occurred witness waheen kakar, jehangir karamat etc.

so the politicians are to blame - even today we see politicians trying to politicise the military by issuing veiled and not so veiled statements.

 

[Maj. Gel. Tariq khan]

Another 9-11 plan is completed, but not ready. It will done in next two to five years and name of Islamic Terrorists will use, more possible that name of Al Qeada will use and this time after attack, target will be Iran, Pakistan. This information is Guaranteed.

 

[thebrownguy]

Another 9-11 plan is completed, but not ready. It will done in next two to five years and name of Islamic Terrorists will used, more possible that name of Al Qeada will use and this time after attack target will be Iran, Pakistan. This information is Guaranteed.

Instead of spinning needless cospiracy theories the islamic world needs to INTROSPECT. Terrorism in name of Islam is a not just a prolem the west is facing. Every country is fighting with it on some level.

 

[thebrownguy]

sala ****** madarchod bhen chod bhen ka loda pakistani ki maa ka choot bhadva katva moo utha ke kahin bhi chala jaata hai 72 burr ke liye sala apna randipana dikhata hai khud to chuddta ha hi saala randi ki aulad doosre maasoomom ko bhi nahi bakshta jallad pakistani saala mera bas chale to in gaanduo ki gand pe laat mar ke sab bhenchodo ko duniya ke bahar phenk doo bhosadi ke saale gndi gatar ke keede madar chod chinal ka saala

Thanks a lot for your views . /it was nice having you here!! Goodbye!!

 

[Maj. Gel. Tariq khan]

when you kill some Muslims in Khasmir, we call you Indian terrorists? when you kill some Muslims in Plastine, we call you Jews terrorists? when you kill some Muslims in Iraq and Afganistan, we call you Christan terrorists? So how you say Muslim terrorists when we kill you?

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

Without traitors west can't do any thing , Muslims have a history of traitors and so do Pakistan, so why to blame West.

 

[Maj. Gel. Tariq khan]

becoz if they can blame us for 9-11, so we too can blame them... C'mon its their so own called the freedom of speech

 

[Solomon2]

I would like references if any of this Bhutto stance that you are highlighting here, this has to be after the 1965 war.

No, during:

"'We must be either degraded as nation or prevail. We prepared fight to finish. '"

"Paks would fight on to finish with sticks and stones and with bare hands if necessary"

FOREIGN RELATIONS OF THE UNITED STATES, 1964-1968, Volume XXV, South Asia: link1 link2

Did you know that Lieutenant General Akhtar Hussain Malik was going on to defeat the Indian forces in the 1965 war when he was replaced at a crucial stage.

I find no mention of Malik in the cables.

As far as US becoming a world player by accident, I do not think so. It took decisions that were to intended to affirm its role as the global player. Such decisions as using atom bomb, dumping the foreign reserves of Britain -

I don't think you've examined the historical record closely enough to realize that these examples do not necessarily support your argument.

Granddaddy Bush did plan a coup that did not occur when the military official backed out, here is a link.

The link is to a refutation.

Regarding TFB, he was in charge of Saudi's Intelligence and was in contact with many militant groups. Americans know who funds the madrassas and who is in the bed with the terrorists, why do you people not act against them.

We're not doing the best we can?

And regarding Saudi's buying me out, it can never happen, I am of a background that is totally opposed to them. If you have an offer that you are trying to purport, let me know and I will give you my reply.

No, but when and if you do get such an offer, I'd love to read your reply - the invective will be highly entertaining, yes?

Going back to Lieutenant General Malik, the Israelis killed him in a car accident after he had agreed to work with the jordan armed forces.

Bizarre, since Israel itself quietly works with Jordanian intelligence and even, at times, has permitted Jordanian Army units onto Israel-controlled territory. It's more natural to suspect you're a victim of anti-Israel conspiracy rumors run amok.

Our army also killed a couple of MOSSAD agents who were in afghanistan in the 80's to get even.

Even stranger, since as far as I know no Israelis were in Afghanistan, but Israel did supply Pakistan with Soviet weapons to arm the mujahedden.

 

[T-Faz]

No, during:

"'We must be either degraded as nation or prevail. We prepared fight to finish. '"

"Paks would fight on to finish with sticks and stones and with bare hands if necessary"

FOREIGN RELATIONS OF THE UNITED STATES, 1964-1968, Volume XXV, South Asia: link1 link2

I find no mention of Malik in the cables.

I don't think you've examined the historical record closely enough to realize that these examples do not necessarily support your argument.

The link is to a refutation.

We're not doing the best we can?

No, but when and if you do get such an offer, I'd love to read your reply - the invective will be highly entertaining, yes?

Bizarre, since Israel itself quietly works with Jordanian intelligence and even, at times, has permitted Jordanian Army units onto Israel-controlled territory. It's more natural to suspect you're a victim of anti-Israel conspiracy rumors run amok.

Even stranger, since as far as I know no Israelis were in Afghanistan, but Israel did supply Pakistan with Soviet weapons to arm the mujahedden.

This is what Major General Akhtar Malik had to say about Bhutto and it speaks a lot about his personality.

It is tragic that despite having a good military mind, the FM’s [Foreign Minister Z.A. Bhutto’s] heart was prone to give way. The biggest tragedy is that in this instance it gave way before the eruption of a crisis.

Rather than going in circles, we can agree to disagree as we strayed far off topic.

Also I am not one to fall for conspiracy theories, I make claims based on facts presented to me usually from reputable sources.

The incidents I mentioned did occur and it for you too find out. It is clear that many things are covered up, just like a retired american army official said on this forum.

Regarding the Saudi offer, you have your reservations on what my reaction would be but you can be rest assured that nothing less than $1 billion would do.

 

[Solomon2]

The incidents I mentioned did occur and it for you too find out.

I do a lot of "finding out" at PDF. In my book, if you make a claim or accusation, it's up to you to back it up, not for me to disprove it.

nothing less than $1 billion would do.

And what would that $1 billion purchase, exactly?

 

[T-Faz]

I do a lot of "finding out" at PDF. In my book, if you make a claim or accusation, it's up to you to back it up, not for me to disprove it.

And what would that $1 billion purchase, exactly?

Here is the first story.

As soon as Yahya took over from Musa as C-n-C in September 1966, he posted out Gen Malik on a CENTO assignment in Turkey. General Akhtar Malik died in 1969 in a car crash in Turkey. It could have been a target-assassination. General Malik had met the Jordanian Ambassador a few days earlier in Ankara. The Ambassador had asked General Malik to help upgrade the Jordanian Army, a job that was accepted by the latter.

It could be Mossad for Israel didn’t want Jordan to acquire the services of a professional general (according to an ex-Army Officer who asked not to be revealed). Israel has been deeply involved in anything that affects its security, especially its neighbours. In 1980, Mossad had eliminated an Egyptian nuclear physicist, Dr Yahia El Meshad, in Paris who had been helping Iraq in setting up its nuclear plant. (Claire Hoy & Victor Ostrovsky By Way of Deception Stoddart Publishing Co.Ltd. Toronto 1990 p.23)

As for the a couple of Israelis being killed in Afghanistan, I will post it when I can find it.

Regarding what I will do with the $1 billion, I will use it to use 50% for charitable causes, 40% for raising and developing a backwater like security agency (contractors as your county calls them) to counter militants and foreign risks in my country. I will sue the remaining %10 on my family and friends.

 

[Luftwaffe]

well if anyone agrees with me these extremist mullahs from india should have been sent back right after they migrated after the creation of Pakistan. I am so glad daddy of certain hypocrite Mullahs, Mullah Zia ul Haq is removed from the history books. All this Afghanistan crap and refugee mess is because of him and alone him.