superNova
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are you a tape recorder?? you are repeating this thing again and again
why are yo in think tank, you are clearly not thinking nd broadcasting the same sentence
VIEW: Jihadism and the military in Pakistan
- Thread starter fatman17
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are you a tape recorder?? you are repeating this thing again and again
why are yo in think tank, you are clearly not thinking nd broadcasting the same sentence
muse
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Because he was also a politician and friend of the Allahmah -- anyways. you're done and I'hv already stuck a fork in you -- you will now have to convince the majority that being Muslim was not what the Quaid had in in mind for Pakistan but rather he wanted an islamist Pakistan and then you have to deal with him explicitly saying no theocracy, in other words no shariah - tsk tsk
Zarvan
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Islamic Law means Shariah first understand what is Shariah these are Islamic Laws and the above quotes include word Islamic Laws many times HAHAHAHAH
Zarvan
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“It is extremely difficult to appreciate why our Hindu friends fail to understand the real nature of Islam and Hinduism. They are not religions in the strict sense of the word but are, in fact, different and distinct social orders… The Hindus and Muslims belong to two different religious philosophies, social customs, literature. They belong to two different civilizations which are based mainly on conflicting ideas and conceptions. Their aspects of life and our life are different.”
In his speech at the Frontier Muslim League Conference on November 21, 1945, he said:
“We have to fight a double edged battle, one against the Hindu Congress and the British Imperialists, both of them being capitalists. The Muslims demand Pakistan where they could rule according to their own code of life and according to their own cultural growth, traditions and Islamic laws.”
In a message to NWFP Muslim Students Federation in April 1943, he said:
“You have asked me to give a message. What message can I give you? We have got the great message in the Quran for our guidance and enlightenment.”
In an Eid message to the nation in 1945, he said:
“Every Muslim knows that the injunctions of the Quran are not confined to religious and moral duties. Everyone except those who are ignorant, knows that the Quran is the general code of the Muslims. A religious, social, civil, commercial, military, judicial, criminal and penal code; it regulates everything from the ceremonies of religion to those of daily life; from the salvation of the soul to the health of the body; from the rights of all, to those of each individual; from morality to crime; from punishment here to that in the life to come, and our Prophet (S) has enjoined on us that every Muslim should possess a copy of the Holy Quran and be his own priest. Therefore, Islam is not confined to the spiritual tenets and doctrines and rituals and ceremonies. It is a complete code regulating the whole Muslim society in every department of life, collectively and individually.”
In August 1941, Quaid-e-Azam gave an interview to the students of the Osmania University. The replies he gave to the questions asked by the students explain his depth and comprehension of the basic foundations of Islam. Here are excerpts from the interview:
Q. What are the essential features of religion and a religious state?
A. When I hear the word “religion,” my mind thinks at once, according to the English language and British usage, of private relations between man and God. But I know full well that according to Islam, the word is not restricted to the English connotation. I am neither a Maulwi nor a Mullah, nor do I claim knowledge of theology. But I have studied in my own way the Holy Quran and Islamic tenets. This magnificent book is full of guidance respecting all human life, whether spiritual, or economic, political or social, leaving no aspect untouched.
Q. What is the distinctive feature of the Islamic state?
A. There is a special feature of the Islamic state which must not be overlooked. There, obedience is due to God and God alone, which takes practical shape in the observance of the Quranic principles and commands. In Islam, obedience is due neither to a king, nor to a parliament, nor to any other organization. It is the Quranic provisions which determine the limits of our freedom and restrictions in political and social spheres. In other words, the Islamic state is an agency for enforcement of the Quranic principles and injunctions.
There will be no economic exploitation by the capitalists in an Islamic state. In his presidential address delivered to the annual session of the All India Muslim League, in Delhi on April 24, 1943, he said:
“Here I should like to give a warning to the landlords and capitalists who have flourished at our expense by a system which is so vicious, which is so wicked and which makes them so selfish that it is difficult to reason with them. The exploitation of the masses has gone into their blood. They have forgotten the lessons of Islam. Greed and selfishness have made these people subordinate to the interests of others in order to fatten themselves. It is true we are not in power today. You go anywhere to the countryside. I have visited villages. There are millions and millions of our people who hardly get one meal a day. Is this civilization? Is this the aim of Pakistan? Do you visualize that millions have been exploited and cannot get one meal a day? If this is the idea of Pakistan, I would not have it. If they are wise, they will have to adjust themselves to the new modern conditions of life. If they don’t, God help them, we shall not help them.”
In his speech at the Frontier Muslim League Conference on November 21, 1945, he said:
“We have to fight a double edged battle, one against the Hindu Congress and the British Imperialists, both of them being capitalists. The Muslims demand Pakistan where they could rule according to their own code of life and according to their own cultural growth, traditions and Islamic laws.”
In a message to NWFP Muslim Students Federation in April 1943, he said:
“You have asked me to give a message. What message can I give you? We have got the great message in the Quran for our guidance and enlightenment.”
In an Eid message to the nation in 1945, he said:
“Every Muslim knows that the injunctions of the Quran are not confined to religious and moral duties. Everyone except those who are ignorant, knows that the Quran is the general code of the Muslims. A religious, social, civil, commercial, military, judicial, criminal and penal code; it regulates everything from the ceremonies of religion to those of daily life; from the salvation of the soul to the health of the body; from the rights of all, to those of each individual; from morality to crime; from punishment here to that in the life to come, and our Prophet (S) has enjoined on us that every Muslim should possess a copy of the Holy Quran and be his own priest. Therefore, Islam is not confined to the spiritual tenets and doctrines and rituals and ceremonies. It is a complete code regulating the whole Muslim society in every department of life, collectively and individually.”
In August 1941, Quaid-e-Azam gave an interview to the students of the Osmania University. The replies he gave to the questions asked by the students explain his depth and comprehension of the basic foundations of Islam. Here are excerpts from the interview:
Q. What are the essential features of religion and a religious state?
A. When I hear the word “religion,” my mind thinks at once, according to the English language and British usage, of private relations between man and God. But I know full well that according to Islam, the word is not restricted to the English connotation. I am neither a Maulwi nor a Mullah, nor do I claim knowledge of theology. But I have studied in my own way the Holy Quran and Islamic tenets. This magnificent book is full of guidance respecting all human life, whether spiritual, or economic, political or social, leaving no aspect untouched.
Q. What is the distinctive feature of the Islamic state?
A. There is a special feature of the Islamic state which must not be overlooked. There, obedience is due to God and God alone, which takes practical shape in the observance of the Quranic principles and commands. In Islam, obedience is due neither to a king, nor to a parliament, nor to any other organization. It is the Quranic provisions which determine the limits of our freedom and restrictions in political and social spheres. In other words, the Islamic state is an agency for enforcement of the Quranic principles and injunctions.
There will be no economic exploitation by the capitalists in an Islamic state. In his presidential address delivered to the annual session of the All India Muslim League, in Delhi on April 24, 1943, he said:
“Here I should like to give a warning to the landlords and capitalists who have flourished at our expense by a system which is so vicious, which is so wicked and which makes them so selfish that it is difficult to reason with them. The exploitation of the masses has gone into their blood. They have forgotten the lessons of Islam. Greed and selfishness have made these people subordinate to the interests of others in order to fatten themselves. It is true we are not in power today. You go anywhere to the countryside. I have visited villages. There are millions and millions of our people who hardly get one meal a day. Is this civilization? Is this the aim of Pakistan? Do you visualize that millions have been exploited and cannot get one meal a day? If this is the idea of Pakistan, I would not have it. If they are wise, they will have to adjust themselves to the new modern conditions of life. If they don’t, God help them, we shall not help them.”
muse
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We can contest Jinnah all day and night - lets let events be our guide - fair? If there is such a thing as a national De-radicalization, then of course the Islamist project would be in jeopardy - and of course the army would then have a choice to make, it can either submit to the government or over throw it and imprison Pakistan once again - My bet is that it will opt for the former rather than the latter.
Zarvan
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Sir Islam will sooner or later take over because ALLAH has said in the Quran that Islam will take over the world even though Kafirs will not like its the destiny of Islam
Zarvan
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Sir I have very close relatives in Army and Army is supporting many many many Islamists for your kind information
muse
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Excellent - thank you Zarvan - thank you for once again making the point that any "De-radicalization" that may be effected on a national basis must include the army.
TARIQ BN ZIYAAD
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Assalam alaikum
i was going over the posts and belive me could not stop laughing ( i m fasting so don't lie ), some of our senior member might feel the pain of fars empirs ruined by arabs more the the furs themselves ( so they got nothing but arabs in their dreams too ).
o meray nadan secular and liberal brothers, 5 pages and none of u brought a word where qaid said pakistan will be a secular state and the speech that u quote it is according to meesaq e madina ( do u think in madinah the non muslims were harmed or not treated fair during Prophet (PBUH ) days )?
U ppl r asking us for a prove while it is ur claim qaid wanted a secular state the burden of prove is on ur shoulder. My brothers quoted many of his speeches and u got only one which even doesnot serve ur purpose.
ALLAH AAP LOGON KO HIDAYAT DAIN AND U WISH US TO GOTO ARABIA ( WHICH U MEAN SAUDI ARABIA ). IS THERE ANY LAND HOLY THEN THESE PLACES I SAY AMEEN TO UR BD ( DUA ) AND SINCE I WANT THE BEST FOR MY MUSLIM BROTHER I WILL SAY SAME TO U
I asked u ppl one question earlier and now , do u think qaid was as munafiq as present day politicians and he used to tell ppl one thing and did the other?
One last thing that i need to mention and specially i want our senior member to DO just go quickly and edit all of ur post where u always blame zia for jihadi culture i dont want other then pakistanies see ur knowledge about pakistan afterall, u r OUR SENIOR MEMBERS TAKE CARE AND HURRY UP BEFORE SOMEBODY TAKES NOTICE
TARIQ
i was going over the posts and belive me could not stop laughing ( i m fasting so don't lie ), some of our senior member might feel the pain of fars empirs ruined by arabs more the the furs themselves ( so they got nothing but arabs in their dreams too ).
o meray nadan secular and liberal brothers, 5 pages and none of u brought a word where qaid said pakistan will be a secular state and the speech that u quote it is according to meesaq e madina ( do u think in madinah the non muslims were harmed or not treated fair during Prophet (PBUH ) days )?
U ppl r asking us for a prove while it is ur claim qaid wanted a secular state the burden of prove is on ur shoulder. My brothers quoted many of his speeches and u got only one which even doesnot serve ur purpose.
ALLAH AAP LOGON KO HIDAYAT DAIN AND U WISH US TO GOTO ARABIA ( WHICH U MEAN SAUDI ARABIA ). IS THERE ANY LAND HOLY THEN THESE PLACES I SAY AMEEN TO UR BD ( DUA ) AND SINCE I WANT THE BEST FOR MY MUSLIM BROTHER I WILL SAY SAME TO U
I asked u ppl one question earlier and now , do u think qaid was as munafiq as present day politicians and he used to tell ppl one thing and did the other?
One last thing that i need to mention and specially i want our senior member to DO just go quickly and edit all of ur post where u always blame zia for jihadi culture i dont want other then pakistanies see ur knowledge about pakistan afterall, u r OUR SENIOR MEMBERS TAKE CARE AND HURRY UP BEFORE SOMEBODY TAKES NOTICE
TARIQ
Zarvan
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Sir you want to lie its your problem I said Army is supporting Islamists so they can spread Islam
fatman17
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VIEW: Jihadism and the military in Pakistan — II —A R Siddiqi
The Pakistan Army gained some tactical advantage in the operation to bring the national propaganda machine feverishly into action
Under Ayub as Commander in Chief, the Pakistan Army might well have been a page taken from the pre-independence, colonial army — the same uniform, same mess culture and same language (English for officers and a sort of Roman Urdu for others). An officer’s personal deportment was judged nearly as much by his social standing and mess culture as by his professional calibre and proficiency. The study of military history served as a plus point in his annual confidential reports (ACRs).
Ayub’s first five years in command might have been the halcyon days of professionalism and force modernisation. Kashmir had nevertheless cast a shadow, long and dark, on the psyche of the rank and file. For the high command an uneasy ceasefire line (CFL) and unnecessary political/diplomatic exploitation of the Kashmir issue by the civilian leadership, underlined the role of the army as the principal guarantor of national security.
Internationally, the army chief, General Ayub, emerged as Pakistan’s man of the moment — of ‘destiny’ — as he had envisioned himself to be. The US state department and the Pentagon looked up to him as the architect of the US-Pak relationship supported by SEATO, the Baghdad Pact (later CENTO) and mutual security agreements.
The military image under Ayub, essentially secular, stayed much the same as the pre-independence colonial army’s. Mess and club bars were open and the ‘koi hai?’ (is anybody there?) generation, though diminishing, still dominated the middle and senior cadres of the officer corps.
Officers (majors and above) and JCOs still wore the British crown on their badges of rank. The word ‘royal’, where authorised, was prefixed to various regiments and services (e.g. Royal Pakistan Service Corps, Royal Pakistan Medical Corps, etc) and the navy and air force respectively were known as the Royal Pakistan Navy (RPN) and Royal Pakistan Air Force (RPAF).
In 1956, Pakistan shed its dominion status and became an Islamic republic to drop the symbols and insignias of British royalty. The British crown was replaced by the Islamic crescent and star. Uniforms, by and large, remained much the same, from the workday khaki to the blue patrols and monkey jackets, etc.
On October 7, 1958, President Iskander Mirza put the country under martial law with Ayub as the CMLA. Ayub embarked on the secular path, dropping even the prefix Islamic from the Republic of Pakistan. Between 1958-1964, the jihadi theme played out in a low-key manner in the army without exactly deviating from it as the dominant note on Pakistan’s jihadi scale.
In October/November 1964, a popular uprising took place in Kashmir, with its centre of gravity in Srinagar and vibrations across the state, in the aftermath of the theft of the sacred hair of the Prophet (PBUH). The uprising took an aggressively violent turn when the Indian government called paramilitary militias and elements of the Indian army to aid civil power.
Waiting for just such an opportunity, the Pakistan Army sprang into action in the Neelum Valley at the brigade level under Brigadier Khilji. The operation was little more than a flash in the pan. After a week or so of some hectic engagements, it came to a close as abruptly as it had begun. In psy-war terms, however, it revived with a vengeance the muted jihadi mantra and the resolve to have it out with India once and for all.
The year 1965 opened with Ayub’s pyrrhic victory in the presidential elections. His rival happened to be Quaid-e-Azam’s sister and lifelong companion, Mohtarma Fatima Jinnah. This electoral exercise was the shame of a severely limited electoral process with just 80,000 voters — 40,000 from each wing. Massive rigging of the ballot reduced it to a complete farce.
Ayub needed nothing less than a military victory to live down the electoral blemish and shame. He initiated a divisional size operation in the howling, swampy desert of the Rann of Kutch. The Pakistan Army gained some tactical advantage in the operation to bring the national propaganda machine feverishly into action. Besides, it served to glorify the young officers and their men as mujahids after Mohammad bin Qasim, the first soldier of Islam to have invaded Sindh and defeated the ruler Raja Dahir (712 AD). Sindh was promptly named Babul Islam (gateway to Islam) as a prelude to the re-conquest of Hindu India by the Muslims.
From Kutch onwards, Islamic jihad became the marching tune of the Pakistan Army — a wakeup call for the muhajid (Pakistani solider): “Ai Mard-i-Mujahid jaag zara abb waqt-e-shahadat aa pohancha” (O soldier, it is time to wake up because the time for martyrdom has come upon us). There was no stopping the Pakistan Army after the Rann of Kutch. Its strategic goal was to impose a humiliating defeat on India. “Allah ke waade ka Mujahid ko yaqeen hai. Woh Fathe-musin, Fathe mobin hai. (The mujahid is assured of Allah’s promise to grant him final victory).
Between May and August 1965, India-Pakistan relations went through a dizzying rollercoaster ride and mind-boggling highs and lows — from a deceptive truce in Kutch to a sudden general flare-up in September. In the first week of August, Operation Gibraltar, a guerrilla type effort, was launched by army regulars masquerading as guerrilla mujahideen fighters. The operation collapsed even on the launching pad.
It was followed impulsively by a divisional size (12 Infantry Division) operation Grand Slam supported by couple of tank regiments (mainly the French AMX’s) and 4 Corps artillery.
What with overoptimistic planning and a mystifying change of command (Major-General Agha Yhaya Khan vice Major-General Akhtar Malik), the grand slam failed to mobilise the enormous firepower (four corps artillery) and mobility (two tank regiments) that the two commanders — Akhter Malik/Yahya Khan — had at their disposal. It had been tardily heading on towards the Indian garrison town, Akhnoor, when India struck all along the international line (West Pakistan) to initiate the first undeclared ‘treacherous and cowardly’ general war on September 6, 1965 against Pakistan.
(To be continued)
The writer is a retired brigadier of the Pakistan Army
The Pakistan Army gained some tactical advantage in the operation to bring the national propaganda machine feverishly into action
Under Ayub as Commander in Chief, the Pakistan Army might well have been a page taken from the pre-independence, colonial army — the same uniform, same mess culture and same language (English for officers and a sort of Roman Urdu for others). An officer’s personal deportment was judged nearly as much by his social standing and mess culture as by his professional calibre and proficiency. The study of military history served as a plus point in his annual confidential reports (ACRs).
Ayub’s first five years in command might have been the halcyon days of professionalism and force modernisation. Kashmir had nevertheless cast a shadow, long and dark, on the psyche of the rank and file. For the high command an uneasy ceasefire line (CFL) and unnecessary political/diplomatic exploitation of the Kashmir issue by the civilian leadership, underlined the role of the army as the principal guarantor of national security.
Internationally, the army chief, General Ayub, emerged as Pakistan’s man of the moment — of ‘destiny’ — as he had envisioned himself to be. The US state department and the Pentagon looked up to him as the architect of the US-Pak relationship supported by SEATO, the Baghdad Pact (later CENTO) and mutual security agreements.
The military image under Ayub, essentially secular, stayed much the same as the pre-independence colonial army’s. Mess and club bars were open and the ‘koi hai?’ (is anybody there?) generation, though diminishing, still dominated the middle and senior cadres of the officer corps.
Officers (majors and above) and JCOs still wore the British crown on their badges of rank. The word ‘royal’, where authorised, was prefixed to various regiments and services (e.g. Royal Pakistan Service Corps, Royal Pakistan Medical Corps, etc) and the navy and air force respectively were known as the Royal Pakistan Navy (RPN) and Royal Pakistan Air Force (RPAF).
In 1956, Pakistan shed its dominion status and became an Islamic republic to drop the symbols and insignias of British royalty. The British crown was replaced by the Islamic crescent and star. Uniforms, by and large, remained much the same, from the workday khaki to the blue patrols and monkey jackets, etc.
On October 7, 1958, President Iskander Mirza put the country under martial law with Ayub as the CMLA. Ayub embarked on the secular path, dropping even the prefix Islamic from the Republic of Pakistan. Between 1958-1964, the jihadi theme played out in a low-key manner in the army without exactly deviating from it as the dominant note on Pakistan’s jihadi scale.
In October/November 1964, a popular uprising took place in Kashmir, with its centre of gravity in Srinagar and vibrations across the state, in the aftermath of the theft of the sacred hair of the Prophet (PBUH). The uprising took an aggressively violent turn when the Indian government called paramilitary militias and elements of the Indian army to aid civil power.
Waiting for just such an opportunity, the Pakistan Army sprang into action in the Neelum Valley at the brigade level under Brigadier Khilji. The operation was little more than a flash in the pan. After a week or so of some hectic engagements, it came to a close as abruptly as it had begun. In psy-war terms, however, it revived with a vengeance the muted jihadi mantra and the resolve to have it out with India once and for all.
The year 1965 opened with Ayub’s pyrrhic victory in the presidential elections. His rival happened to be Quaid-e-Azam’s sister and lifelong companion, Mohtarma Fatima Jinnah. This electoral exercise was the shame of a severely limited electoral process with just 80,000 voters — 40,000 from each wing. Massive rigging of the ballot reduced it to a complete farce.
Ayub needed nothing less than a military victory to live down the electoral blemish and shame. He initiated a divisional size operation in the howling, swampy desert of the Rann of Kutch. The Pakistan Army gained some tactical advantage in the operation to bring the national propaganda machine feverishly into action. Besides, it served to glorify the young officers and their men as mujahids after Mohammad bin Qasim, the first soldier of Islam to have invaded Sindh and defeated the ruler Raja Dahir (712 AD). Sindh was promptly named Babul Islam (gateway to Islam) as a prelude to the re-conquest of Hindu India by the Muslims.
From Kutch onwards, Islamic jihad became the marching tune of the Pakistan Army — a wakeup call for the muhajid (Pakistani solider): “Ai Mard-i-Mujahid jaag zara abb waqt-e-shahadat aa pohancha” (O soldier, it is time to wake up because the time for martyrdom has come upon us). There was no stopping the Pakistan Army after the Rann of Kutch. Its strategic goal was to impose a humiliating defeat on India. “Allah ke waade ka Mujahid ko yaqeen hai. Woh Fathe-musin, Fathe mobin hai. (The mujahid is assured of Allah’s promise to grant him final victory).
Between May and August 1965, India-Pakistan relations went through a dizzying rollercoaster ride and mind-boggling highs and lows — from a deceptive truce in Kutch to a sudden general flare-up in September. In the first week of August, Operation Gibraltar, a guerrilla type effort, was launched by army regulars masquerading as guerrilla mujahideen fighters. The operation collapsed even on the launching pad.
It was followed impulsively by a divisional size (12 Infantry Division) operation Grand Slam supported by couple of tank regiments (mainly the French AMX’s) and 4 Corps artillery.
What with overoptimistic planning and a mystifying change of command (Major-General Agha Yhaya Khan vice Major-General Akhtar Malik), the grand slam failed to mobilise the enormous firepower (four corps artillery) and mobility (two tank regiments) that the two commanders — Akhter Malik/Yahya Khan — had at their disposal. It had been tardily heading on towards the Indian garrison town, Akhnoor, when India struck all along the international line (West Pakistan) to initiate the first undeclared ‘treacherous and cowardly’ general war on September 6, 1965 against Pakistan.
(To be continued)
The writer is a retired brigadier of the Pakistan Army
OrionHunter
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I feel the word Jihad has been contorted to suit the aims and objectives of people who use this as an excuse for war.
There are two aspects of jihad. One is fighting to overcome carnal desires and evil inclinations; this is called the greater jihad; the other is encouraging others to achieve the same objective and is called the lesser jihad.
The Muslim army was returning to Madina after they had defeated the enemy in a battle, when the Messenger of God said to them; We are returning from the lesser jihad to the greater one. When the Companions asked what the “greater jihad” was, he explained that it was fighting with the carnal self.
The aim of either jihad, the greater or the lesser, is that the believer be purified of sins and so attain true humanity. The prophets were sent for this purpose. God says in the Quran:
Thus We have sent unto you a Messenger from among you, who recites unto you Our revelations (and makes Our signs known to you), and who purifies you and instructs you in the Book and in the Wisdom, and also instructs you in what you don’t know. (2:151)
In other words, Jihad doesn't translate to war. It's the purification of oneself - a battle within yourself to attain humanism.
There are two aspects of jihad. One is fighting to overcome carnal desires and evil inclinations; this is called the greater jihad; the other is encouraging others to achieve the same objective and is called the lesser jihad.
The Muslim army was returning to Madina after they had defeated the enemy in a battle, when the Messenger of God said to them; We are returning from the lesser jihad to the greater one. When the Companions asked what the “greater jihad” was, he explained that it was fighting with the carnal self.
The aim of either jihad, the greater or the lesser, is that the believer be purified of sins and so attain true humanity. The prophets were sent for this purpose. God says in the Quran:
Thus We have sent unto you a Messenger from among you, who recites unto you Our revelations (and makes Our signs known to you), and who purifies you and instructs you in the Book and in the Wisdom, and also instructs you in what you don’t know. (2:151)
In other words, Jihad doesn't translate to war. It's the purification of oneself - a battle within yourself to attain humanism.
third eye
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I am surprised a Brig writes these lines.
Ayub could do a Op Gibraltar - send in regulars disguised as locals back in 65 and when India did the same in 71 PA cried foul.
Pak could attack across Akhnoor but when India opened up the Western front in Sept 65 it becomes ' trecherous & cowardly' !!
Reminds me of the song from an Salman Khan film ''Ham Karen to Sala Character Dheela hai " !!
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