Vietnamese nationalist fabrications

[Rechoice]

You share O M134,O M117,O3 002611 all East Asian populations are related.

No,O2b is not entirely absent from Han Chinese there are still really small quantities mainly of O2b K3(most common in Manchurians) and even fewer O2b L682(most common in Koreans) with no O2b 47z(most common in Japanese)

Vietnamese have O2b 47z.

O2b should divided in to different sub-group which should be dominated in Mongolian, Korean and Japanese who speak Altaic language with different rate or type.

Vietnamese King people shared O2b culter Chromosome is the evidence for that our Vietnamese king people were in Northen China in prehistory time, what Dai Viet Su Luoc said is truth.

 

[Grand Historian]

O2b should divided in to different sub-group which should be dominated in Mongolian, Korean and Japanese who speak Altaic language with different rate or type.

Vietnamese King people shared O2b culter Chromosome is the evidence for that our Vietnamese king people were in Northen China in prehistory time, what Dai Viet Su Luoc said is truth.

O2b 47z didn't originate in Northern China rather it originated in Korea.

Investigative Genetics | Full text | High frequencies of Y-chromosome haplogroup O2b-SRY465 lineages in Korea: a genetic perspective on the peopling of Korea
"In addition, the coalescence time (~4,400 years) for the age of haplogroup O2b1-47z, and its Y-STR diversity, suggest that this lineage probably originated in Korea. "

"O2b1-47z, might be Yayoi male lineages, which contributed to the contemporary mainland Japanese population via a process of demic diffusion during the Yayoi period from the Korean Peninsula, around 2,300 years ago."

"Therefore, the present data support the possibility of an ancient Korean origin of O2b1-47z, rather than a Japanese origin"

"Although O2b1-47z is at its highest haplogroup frequency in the Japanese population, the Y-STR data reveal more diversity of O2b1-47z haplotypes in Koreans, as shown by the mean number of pairwise differences and allele size variation ratio supporting an origin of the O2b1-47z mutation in prehistoric Korea. "

"Our results support the idea that both haplogroups O2b*-SRY465 and O2b1-47z had an in situorigin among Northeast Asians, particularly among the prehistoric Koreans, rather than in southeast Asia or Japan as previously envisaged."

If O2b 47z originated in China explain why it doesn't exist in neolithic sites or modern day Han Chinese?

I've busted your claims one by one how many more lies are you going to conjure?

 

[Rechoice]

Yes I have though only the portions dealing with Hong Bang/Van Lang/Shu Pan and Nanyue in the Dai Viet su ky toan thu I haven't read Dai Viet su ky.

I can quote you texts from Dai Viet su ky toan thu if you wish.

Read the Kham dinh Viet su Thong giam coung muc to see that Vietnamese scholars already disagreed with the Dai Viet su ky toan thu

Doesn't matter what your history books said I already busted your claims.


Not quite the Khoa Dao script was found in areas with ethnic minorities not Kinh Vietnamese,classic example of Vietnmaese stealing minority history.

Later Tai scripts resemble Dong Son scripts.

By the 3rd century BC the natives of Northern Vietnam already adopted a Sinitic script showing that it was replaced.

Neither are the Luoyue exclusively Vietnamese there are plenty of other ethnic minorities ie Zhuang that live where the Luoyue lived.

Otherwise prove that the Luoyue spoke Vietnamese.

What does Luoyue have writing have to do with Van Lang ruling the entirety of Southern China?


Other than an incomprehensible sentence you have nothing to back up your words that Shiji is full of nonsense try harder.

The debate on prehistory matter is normal life of ordinary people in every where in the world. Vietnamese elites in the past in case of Thong Giam Cuong Muc, or nowaday, we could have different idea or opinion in Vietnam too. or with our oversea brothers.

What you said is your personal opinion, I don't care.

I copy here comment of Eastsea he said that " we don't have right to deny it ". he posted also that Chinese copied the word " Rever" , "dog" and " dead" from Vietnamese. Other than Vietnamese shared blood line with Altaic people in Northern Asia.

This evidence for that part of Vietnamese Kinh people settled back to Vietnam today from their native land in China. It was Van Lang territory of Viet/kinh people.

For the ancient Luo Yue writing character it is found in Vietnam in Sapa too. This characters is developed by Muong people in Vietnam. Note that Vietnamese Kinh people is separated from Muong around 1,300 year ago. We both Muong/Trai or King people we speak Mon/Khmer language.

 

[Grand Historian]

What you said is your personal opinion, I don't care.

What a joke, your own historians noticed the inconsistencies.

From Kham dinh Viet su Thong giam coung muc(欽定越史通鑑綱目)

洞庭地夾兩湖實在百粵之北巴蜀猶隔雋滇(今屬雲南) 不相接壤舊史侈大其辭殆與後蜀王之事皆屬傳虛而未之
Lake Dongting is situated between the two Hu's ie Hunan and Hubei. Lake Dongting is North of the Baiyue. Ba and Shu were separated from Van Lang by Xi and Dian(both located in modern day Yunnan),thus Van Lang did not share a border. The old texts are obviously exaggerated. Furthermore this and King Shu Pan are not credible and have never been substantiated.

考也況所分十五部皆交阯朱鳶以內全無一部在北可證其誣也
The demarcation of the 15 regions are within the lands of Jiaozhi and Zhuyuan,not a single piece of land is North of these areas.

I copy here comment of Eastsea he said that " we don't have right to deny it ". he posted also that Chinese copied the word " Rever" , "dog" and " dead" from Vietnamese. Other than Vietnamese shared blood line with Altaic people in Northern Asia.

This evidence for that part of Vietnamese Kinh people settled back to Vietnam today from their native land in China. It was Van Lang territory of Viet/kinh people.

False,Chinese adopted the terms Jiang and Za from Mon Khmer/Austroasiatic peoples not Vietnamese don't distort the original meaning of the texts.

Nao Sou is derived from Nanyue who spoke an Austroasiatic language not Vietnamese.

Claiming an entire language family as "Vietnamese" is like English people claiming all Indo European languages are English.

Vietnamese are even farther away from Altaic then Han Chinese are.

For the ancient Luo Yue writing character it is found in Vietnam in Sapa too. This characters is developed by Muong people in Vietnam. Note that Vietnamese Kinh people is separated from Muong around 1,300 year ago.

Muong =/= Kinh.

Face it,Kinh Vietnamese are hijacking the achievements of other ethnicities to present themselves better.

You nationalist Vietnamese are entertaining,spinning a web of deceit in an attempt to delude people out of ignorance.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Han Chinese is ethnic group is living in Northern China, Chinese is people today living in territory of China who should possessed a PRC passport,

Han chinese and Vietnamese are both belong to Mongolid race, like Korean and Japanese and Han or Southern Chinese. When I have been to Thailand, people said to me that they belong to Mongolia race too.

But to the ethnicity, Vietnamese Kinh people and Chinese Han people belong two different ethnic group. We don' shared same bloodline and language with Han people. Vietnamese shared O2b Chromosomes cluster with Korean and Japanese when Han people don't have it.

North Chinese also carry O2b.

 

[Snomannen]

it was my typing mistake, like some Chinese from Hua people in western now, they can type Vietnamese but missing the tonal marks, but i could understand them well.

....

it made the Han Ji is more interesting, it reflected that the original idea of Han Chinese when they created in word at begining. names Wei 魏, which has a "ghost" 鬼 in the character from the idea was that wei guo is country of myth people.

Not only typing mistake but you also made a huge fault of messing the basic knowledge. You really know nothing about Hanji characters.

魏 is a region name with another meaning of "the two lookout towers in front of the palace gate". It has a "鬼" in it but it has nothing to do with "ghost".

 

[Viet]

You share O M134,O M117,O3 002611 all East Asian populations are related.

No,O2b is not entirely absent from Han Chinese there are still really small quantities mainly of O2b K3(most common in Manchurians) and even fewer O2b L682(most common in Koreans) with no O2b 47z(most common in Japanese)

Vietnamese have O2b 47z.

LOL ...interesting debate about genetics. this is the first time I read such a thing on a online forum.

do I understand you correctly? the Viets have more in common with Japanese than Chinese?

What is Han Chinese or Chinese in your definition? Han Chinese are bloodline related to Vietnamese?

identical to that KirovAirship says.

what Vietnamese scholars and common Vietnamese think of China and Chinese are different thing.
It is a bit complicated. To tell you requires me a bit of time to put all defintions here.

 

[Grand Historian]

LOL ...interesting debate about genetics. this is the first time I read such a thing on a online forum.

do I understand you correctly? the Viets have more in common with Japanese than Chinese?

Considering how small the O2b 47z is in Vietnamese populations I would say no,from autosomal studies Vietnamese are closer to Chinese than Japanese.

 

[Viet]

Considering how small the O2b 47z is in Vietnamese populations I would say no,from autosomal studies Vietnamese are closer to Chinese than Japanese.

No surprise. Japanese came in small number to Vietnam much later than Chinese and Mongols.

Japanese merchants came to Vietnam in 16 century. Many settled down and lived in Hoi An, an acient town in central Vietnam. pic of Japanese trade ship heading from Nagasaki to Vietnam (taken from wiki).

any understanding of viet nationhood and international rights that self-regards itself as anything on equal legal, historical footing as chinese nationhood and historical and cultural identity is a dangerous and delusional ideology for viets that inevitably leads to viets self-destruction. that is the difference between chinese and viet nationalisms

hm...is it your demand Vietnamese should abandon all Chinese root?
otherwise China would launch another invasion into Vietnam?

because self-destruction is your habit, not ours.

 

[StarCraft_ZT]

Interesting genetic analysis. Never thought East Asian population have so much diversity in genes. Basically, in appearance, people don't look much different.

 

[Rechoice]

洞庭地夾兩湖實在百粵之北巴蜀猶隔雋滇(今屬雲南) 不相接壤舊史侈大其辭殆與後蜀王之事皆屬傳虛而未之
Lake Dongting is situated between the two Hu's ie Hunan and Hubei. Lake Dongting is North of the Baiyue. Ba and Shu were separated from Van Lang by Xi and Dian(both located in modern day Yunnan),thus Van Lang did not share a border. The old texts are obviously exaggerated. Furthermore this and King Shu Pan are not credible and have never been substantiated.
考也況所分十五部皆交阯朱鳶以內全無一部在北可證其誣也
The demarcation of the 15 regions are within the lands of Jiaozhi and Zhuyuan,not a single piece of land is North of these areas.

In the past, if some one said that people in China, Vietnam and all Asia came from East Africa, I think all scholars in Vietnam and China should been protested angrily.

How far away from Dongding in Hunan Lake to Hanoi, Tonkin ? I guess it to be around 1,500 km only. Our ancestors settled back in progress of 2,000 year BCE. Later Vietnamese Kinh moved to Soth from Thanh Hoa to last point pf Vietnam in Ca Mau is over 1,000 km, it taken only 300 year.

we could trusted on statement of Dai Viet Su Luoc.

False,Chinese adopted the terms Jiang and Za from Mon Khmer/Austroasiatic peoples not Vietnamese don't distort the original meaning of the texts.
Nao Sou is derived from Nanyue who spoke an Austroasiatic language not Vietnamese.
Claiming an entire language family as "Vietnamese" is like English people claiming all Indo European languages are English.
Vietnamese are even farther away from Altaic then Han Chinese are.

Learn more, kid.

Vietnamese Kinh people belong to Austroasiatic people first, we speak Austroasian language, in recent classifications synonymous with Mon–Khmer language. The language speaking by Khmer people in Cambodia, Mon people in Mianma, Khmuic or Khomu in Laos,. Muong and Kinh people in Vietnam.

Muong =/= Kinh.
Face it,Kinh Vietnamese are hijacking the achievements of other ethnicities to present themselves better.
You nationalist Vietnamese are entertaining,spinning a web of deceit in an attempt to delude people out of ignorance.

You are stupid.

Vietnamese Kinh in ethnicity group is separated from common Muong people only 1,300 year ago.

( For Vietnamese mumber, pls to read " History of Vietnamese sound and linguistic" or " Lịch sử Ngữ Âm tiếng Việt " written by Professor Nguyễ Tài Cẩn , member of Russia Academy for linguistic. )

North Chinese also carry O2b.

I don' seen O2b on graph you posted. There is O2 K18.

 

[Grand Historian]

In the past, if some one said that people in China, Vietnam and all Asia came from East Africa, I think all scholars in Vietnam and China should been protested angrily.

How far away from Dongding in Hunan Lake to Hanoi, Tonkin ? I guess it to be around 1,500 km only. Our ancestors settled back in progress of 2,000 year BCE. Later Vietnamese Kinh moved to Soth from Thanh Hoa to last point pf Vietnam in Ca Mau is over 1,000 km, it taken only 300 year.

we could trusted on statement of Dai Viet Su Luoc.

Looks like you are in denial,your own history book criticizes your myths yet you can't accept reality.

If you even bothered to read my post you can see that Van Lang is separated from Lake Dongting by Xi and Dian.

We can't trust ancient Vietnamese historiography as they blatantly distort history.

You are academically dishonest you have never provided archaeological proof Van Lang encompassed Southern China.

Learn more, kid.

Vietnamese Kinh people belong to Austroasiatic people first, we speak Austroasian language, in recent classifications synonymous with Mon–Khmer language. The language speaking by Khmer people in Cambodia, Mon people in Mianma, Khmuic or Khomu in Laos,. Muong and Kinh people in Vietnam.

So all Austroasiatic people are Vietnamese now?

Go tell Cambodians they are Vietnamese I'm sure they will laugh at you.

That is utterly ridiculous,can Indians claim that Germans are Indians because they belong in the same language family?

You are stupid.

Vietnamese Kinh in ethnicity group is separated from common Muong people only 1,300 year ago.

( For Vietnamese mumber, pls to read " History of Vietnamese sound and linguistic" or " Lịch sử Ngữ Âm tiếng Việt " written by Professor Nguyễ Tài Cẩn , member of Russia Academy for linguistic. )

Read Lacquered Words:The Evolution of Vietnmaese under Sinitic Influences From The 1st Century BCE Through The 17th Century to see that Vietnamese at one time spoke a Sinitic language.

Insulting me won't change a thing,only revealing your inferiority complex.

 

[EastSea]

North Chinese also carry O2b.

O2b is not existed in Han Chinese Y chromosome in this graph.

 

[Grand Historian]

O2b is not existed in Han Chinese Y chromosome in this graph.

And that graph is supposed to be the ultimatum?

I take back what I said about O2b 47z not existing in China as there are 2 samples in Shanghai.

It still doesn't change a thing,O2b is exceedingly rare and studies show that O2b 47z originates in Korea/Manchuria.

 

[Viet]

Most these so-called "Chinese ultra-nationalists" are in fact KMT supporters.

These people first want to create tension between Hans and the ethnic minorities in China by attacking them.

But their ultimate goal is to demonize CPC, how CPC's idealogy is foreign and it is against the Chinese civilization. They also have agenda to deny the Yuan-Qing Dynasty, the goal of denying is to deny China's current territorial integrity.

When KMT sold off Outer Mongolia, they set to blame on CPC. They even blamed CPC for the loss of the Qing territory to the Russian Empire.

When it comes to the Western Civilization and the Christianity, these fake Chinese nationalists have shown their true color. According to them, the c, and the only future for China is to accept the democracy and the Christianity.

BTW, thanks to CPC who has introduced the Marxism to reform the stagnated Chinese Civilization. Now the Chinese Civilization can be exploited to its maximum potential and it is set to outcompete the Western Civilization.

Introducing the Marxism is not the same as introducing the Western Democracy and the Christianity. The former one is to reform the Chinese Civilization, while the later one is to kill off the already stagnated Chinese Civilization and made the eternal slave to the West, it is like to break a camel's back with the last straw.

These KMT traitors/pro-democracy thugs keep talking how they "love" the Chinese Civilization, but fact their true agenda to make China to become a vessel state of the West. In order to achieve this objective, they have to destroy China's root first.

I believe not all of your Chinese compariots follow your thought.

Marxism is alien to China and Chinese until the recent period. China return to the glorious days of the past thanks due to Capitalism and free market economy. Have you forgotten the chaos years under Mao Zedong when Marxism was in place?