Vietnam visit: Anti-American exhibits abound, but people are friendly

[gambit]

Gambit is just another self hating Stochholm syndrome racist. Just like the blacks that sold other blacks into slavery or the French that sold Jews to the Nazis.

Stick to your technician level understanding of radar, at least then you won't be called out for what you are: a right wing extremist Nazi.

Looks like someone cannot handle the truth that it was China who helped started a war in another country.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

I 'admitted' to nothing. I only respond to what I see as relevant to your pettiness: that you have to stoop as low as pointing out grammatical errors in other people's posts. That is being small minded.

I only pointed it out because you had to bold it.

Nice tap-dancing around the truth that you do not want to reveal: That you know communism is an epic failure.

I don't give two ****s about ideologies. I only care about how people actually get things done in a country. Many communist, theocratic, and democratic regimes have failed. I only care who failed not whether they were communist or not. If they succeed I do not look at whether they are democratic or communist, I look at who was behind their success.

Only in your mind that I deny my origin. This insult is nothing more than because you have nothing worth debating about.

You place two American flags, and when asked if you are Vietnamese you say you are a American citizen. Well I'm a American citizen too but I don't feel the need to place two American flags to prove that I am.

Of course there is. Heck...Am beginning to think you do not even know what 'false dichotomy' means.

False dichotomy is when you believe there are only two choices when there are actually more. I understand that fine but your opinion is concrete when it comes to what happened in Vietnam.

Doubt it.

Same to you.

On this anonymous public forum, it is best to treat people as representative of the country in which they pledged allegiance, which is reasonable that it would be the country of residence. If a Pakistani who live in England publicly said his allegiance is with the Eskimos, I will treat him like an Eskimo.

I only started to treat you as Vietnamese because you kept calling me Chinese boy. I am a American citizen with American interests as well but you immediately started your insults on my Chinese heritage. I only give back what is forced on me.

The fact that I believe in compromises in political discourses, that people have certain freedoms and rights that cannot be taken away by the government, except in egregious violations of societal norms, which we call 'crimes', the fact that I believe in multiple political parties, and so on many others...Make me superior to any commie out there, be he Chinese or Russian.

Beliefs and actions are quite different things. You can believe anything you want but it makes no difference unless you actually act on it. You may be a democrat but have not actually needed to do anything to secure democratic rights. My grandfather joined the CCP but all he did was lead a freaking village. How exactly is that evil or despicable. He worked hard, and provided for his country in when it was dirt poor. You left yet you look down on people who stayed and actually made a difference for their country. You have no right to judge him.

Am not seeking to 'win' any argument. And as far as you Chinese boys goes, enough of you engaged in cheap personal and racist attacks against me that I see no little difference between the lot of you until such attacks stop, which I doubt because you boys simply cannot help but feeling superior.

I have not so its pointless to try to make feel like I have to apologize for them. Arguing with you has not changed my opinion of Vietnamese people because I know you do not represent all Vietnamese people, hopefully.

Colonialism can only do as much damages as long as the colonial power remain. Once communism took over and imposed its own will and methods of governance, the fate and status of the country belongs to that regime, not the past one. Blaming the past is a certain sign of evasion one's responsibilities.

Colonialism is in the past so that has no effect on a country? Communism can not take over and impose will only people can. People form a communist regime but it is their choice on how to actually run things. You make it sound like communism is actually alive and capable of running governments. Corrupt people run corrupt governments even if they are not communist.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

Looks like someone cannot handle the truth that it was China who helped started a war in another country.

Really because in American history books it was the North Vietnamese. Guess its just propaganda to protect China right?

 

[Donatello]

What war?

You know about the gulf of Tonkin incident, right?

 

[tanlixiang28776]

What war?

You know about the gulf of Tonkin incident, right?

Yeah because the big bad North Vietnamese cruisers fired on American ships right. Even my teachers told us that was BS.

 

[gambit]

Really because in American history books it was the North Vietnamese. Guess its just propaganda to protect China right?

That too. But why do you focus on American history books? Do you dispute the historical fact that communist China was in Viet Nam, particularly northern Viet Nam, before American involvement?

 

[tanlixiang28776]

That too. But why do you focus on American history books? Do you dispute the historical fact that communist China was in Viet Nam, particularly northern Viet Nam, before American involvement?

Are you talking about chinese troops in Vietnam?

Even if they were there it wouldn't start a war unless they were attacked.

 

[gambit]

I only pointed it out because you had to bold it.

And it had nothing to do with grammar. I meant what I said, that Hell is made FOR communists. You falsely perceived it to be a grammatical error and proceed to be petty about it. And for a place where English is usually a second language, such pettiness make you a small minded person.

I don't give two ****s about ideologies. I only care about how people actually get things done in a country. Many communist, theocratic, and democratic regimes have failed. I only care who failed not whether they were communist or not. If they succeed I do not look at whether they are democratic or communist, I look at who was behind their success.

Of course you do. You are not a robot with programmed instructions. Just like the rest of humanity, you do not live your life in a moral and intellectual vacuum. You are standing on some moral foundation and you have to be convinced, not forced, off that foundation and to stand upon another. We make those decisions every day. Businessmen do it regularly when information presented to them and convinced them to change their strategies. Same for political decisions. So when you are presented with competing ideologies such as communism versus democracy versus anarchy, you do give a care. So do not try to weasel out of the fact that despite your boasting about your grandfather's communism, for whatever reasons you rejected his beliefs and by your reasoning, such rejection make you a traitor.

You place two American flags, and when asked if you are Vietnamese you say you are a American citizen. Well I'm a American citizen too but I don't feel the need to place two American flags to prove that I am.

I do not care what you consider yourself to be. I only care about the contents of your arguments, which I find so far to be quite feeble.

False dichotomy is when you believe there are only two choices when there are actually more. I understand that fine but your opinion is concrete when it comes to what happened in Vietnam.

Wrong...A 'false dichotomy' is when the situation presented precludes other options available for discussion. The 'di' means 'two', did you know that?

False dilemma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A false dilemma (also called false dichotomy, the either-or fallacy, fallacy of false choice, black and white thinking or the fallacy of exhaustive hypotheses) is a type of logical fallacy that involves a situation in which only two alternatives are considered, when in fact there are additional options.

For you Chinese boys, I have only two choices: support the current Vietnamese government and all its associated baggage, or if I am critical of the current Vietnamese government I am a traitor, that I supported the Vietnam War just to kill Vietnamese, not because it was a war of independence for South Viet Nam, which was the truth. That is a false dichotomy you Chinese boys are trying to foist upon the readers. That is a lie and if you persists in propagating this lie, this make you a liar.

I only started to treat you as Vietnamese because you kept calling me Chinese boy. I am a American citizen with American interests as well but you immediately started your insults on my Chinese heritage. I only give back what is forced on me.

Wrong...I have never made insults towards China's heritage. In the past, I have often praised Chinese history as 'enviable' and that communism made a mockery out of such a country and a people. Insulting communists does not equate to insulting China. But if you do make that association, then it contradict with your previous claim that you do not care about ideologies.

Beliefs and actions are quite different things. You can believe anything you want but it makes no difference unless you actually act on it. You may be a democrat but have not actually needed to do anything to secure democratic rights. My grandfather joined the CCP but all he did was lead a freaking village. How exactly is that evil or despicable. He worked hard, and provided for his country in when it was dirt poor. You left yet you look down on people who stayed and actually made a difference for their country. You have no right to judge him.

And yet YOU reserve to yourself the right to call me a 'traitor' and other labels? Here is another phrase for you who is supposedly a member of a superior Asiatic stock: 'intellectual consistency'. Look it up.

I have not so its pointless to try to make feel like I have to apologize for them. Arguing with you has not changed my opinion of Vietnamese people because I know you do not represent all Vietnamese people, hopefully.

Until I see some genuine PUBLIC denunciations of cheap and racist personal attacks against me, I see no need to take you seriously.

Colonialism is in the past so that has no effect on a country? Communism can not take over and impose will only people can. People form a communist regime but it is their choice on how to actually run things. You make it sound like communism is actually alive and capable of running governments. Corrupt people run corrupt governments even if they are not communist.

Ideas cannot succeed or fail without people. Colonialism is a way of exploiting the products of a country and a people. Same with communism. Same with democracy. Everything revolves around what a people can produce from within themselves and from the land they claimed to be theirs. So when communists took over a country and ousted colonialists, the responsibilities for the successes and failures of the country rests upon the new regime.

 

[gambit]

Are you talking about chinese troops in Vietnam?

Even if they were there it wouldn't start a war unless they were attacked.

Am going to ask you again...Do you dispute the historical fact that China was meddling in Viet Nam, particularly northern Viet Nam, BEFORE American involvement?

This is ever so entertaining watching commies squirms and dances around tough questions.

 

[scuthan]

You did not give me anything new. I stand by what I said, China supplied to Vietnam was low tech weaponry. How many US aircraft were down by Chinese Mig?

The most high tech weapon of North Vietnam was the SA-2, the Mig21, and Mig 17 that were the major killers of the high tech US warplanes

China supplied Vietnam with a large number of J6 and J7 (which are chinese version of Mig 19 and Mig 21), anti-air artilleries and HQ-2 missiles, which is an improved version of SA-2. China also built many radar stations and factories for vietnam. In vietnam war, 100 thousands chinese anti-air force, military consultants, engineers, and logistic personal entered vietnam and thousands of them lost their life. tens thousands of vietnamnese officers went to china to receive military training. that is what you called "low tech weaponry"

According to Vietnam's official statistic, the supply it got from china was three times that from USSR. without china's help, you guys can not even sustain a month.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

Am going to ask you again...Do you dispute the historical fact that China was meddling in Viet Nam, particularly northern Viet Nam, BEFORE American involvement?

This is ever so entertaining watching commies squirms and dances around tough questions.

I don't understand how Chinese involvement gives America the excuse to start a war there.

Once again you are classifying me as a communist when you clearly know I am not.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Once again you are classifying me as a communist when you clearly know I am not.

This is just another example of Gambit's racial stereotypes.

No matter how many times I tell him I'm from Hong Kong, he still continues whining about "Commies" and "brainwashing". Yet has failed to explain how a Hong Konger like myself was somehow "brainwashed" by the CPC while growing up.

The only thing he cares about is race. Doesn't matter if you are an American citizen, or from Hong Kong, if you're racially Chinese then you will get the same treatment.

 

[scuthan]

That too. But why do you focus on American history books? Do you dispute the historical fact that communist China was in Viet Nam, particularly northern Viet Nam, before American involvement?

of course "chinese commies" was in vietnam before American's involvement. there are chinese military officers in every company of Ho chi min's army. they came to Vietnam to help vietnamnese gain independence.

 

[gambit]

I don't understand how Chinese involvement gives America the excuse to start a war there.

There goes the propaganda line: That it was the US who 'started' the Vietnam War. At least now you are educated to the fact that China was meddling in Viet Nam long before the US was involved. China encouraged North Viet Nam to go to war to 'liberate' South Viet Nam. If you feel that NVN has the right to call upon China -- an ally -- towards that goal, then why is it wrong for SVN to call upon its ally -- the US -- to support its goal of independence? The US started the Vietnam War? But now that I managed to present historical evidences and reasonable arguments to point fingers at China, there would be the inevitable cheap and racist personal attacks from the peanut gallery.

Once again you are classifying me as a communist when you clearly know I am not.

You object? Does this mean your grandfather made the wrong choice in being a communist?

 

[tanlixiang28776]

This is just another example of Gambit's racial stereotypes.

No matter how many times I tell him I'm from Hong Kong, he still continues whining about "Commies" and "brainwashing". Yet has failed to explain how a Hong Konger like myself was somehow "brainwashed" by the CPC while growing up.

The only thing he cares about is race. Doesn't matter if you are an American citizen, or from Hong Kong, if you're racially Chinese then you will get the same treatment.

He complains about being treated like crap by Chinese because he is Vietnamese. Has he ever considered he gets treated like crap cause he does the same thing to other Chinese?