Vietnam visit: Anti-American exhibits abound, but people are friendly

[gambit]

In our discussion in radar absorbant materials, I believe we remained in a civilized, technical discussion. I have also never made up any statistics.

Of course you have. Your modus operandi is simply saying 'statistic shown' then you would spout whatever 'argument' you want based upon nothing. You are a dishonest person.

 

[gambit]

There will always be a place for traitors. Its in the lowest tier of hell.

P.S its full of communists

Am glad we agree that communists deserve to be in Hell.

 

[below_freezing]

Dunno wherever you copied/pasted that from, it sounded like a bad high school report...

No...At the end of WW II, China was hardly established as a communist country. Mao and Chiang were still contending forces with their respective sponsors, Russia and the US-led Allies, on what direction should China take.


If this truly was a high school History report, I would give it an epic F. Obviously you did not read the argument I presented so I will spell it out for you...

Pentagon Papers, Gravel Edition, Summary and Chapter I

Even before the end of WW II, the US already had plans for Indochina -- independence. Of course, war time necessities pushed this plan into the background. Though Roosevelt died, the US under Truman had no reasons to deviate from that plan. The US never had any colonial interests on mainland China the way the Europeans did. That was why Roosevelt commented about the French and British attitudes regarding Indochina under UN trusteeship towards independence.

The true reason why France managed to re-entered Indochina...

Ho

Look closely at the date and see for yourself. France was anxious to reclaim Indochina the way any colonial power would. China was already in the beginning of an internal power struggle between Mao and Chiang. Non-communist nationalists were voicing their opposition to Ho in northern Viet Nam. They had to go. France endowed Ho with some measure of authority backed up by military force. The result was the slaughter of non-communist nationalists under the hands of the Viet Minh and France. No one in the Allies camp 'gave' Viet Nam, north or south, to anyone. Once France was back into Indochina at the invitation of the Viet Minh, what else could anyone do?


Of course the Chinese mistreated the Viet. They viewed themselves as 'Sons of Heaven', as recalled by this man...

Amazon.com: Following Ho Chi Minh: The Memoirs of a North Vietnamese Colonel (9780824822330): Bui Tin: Books

Chinese 'advisors' did more than just 'advised' the Viet Minh. They falsely accused loyal Viet Minh members, high and low, abused the Viet peasantry in crimes that involved even rapes and murders and Ho was too cowardly to stand up for his people. By this time, the conflict against France was underway. So it is not true that Ho was removed from power. He never was in power. He got into power via an agreement with France that in principle gave France all the justification they need to reclaim a colony.

So here are the true instigators of the Vietnam War, in order:

- Ho Chi Minh
- France
- China

I see no reason to continue. You failed.

Why associate the democratic KMT soldiers with those from the PRC? Their war crimes are well known and they treated people in both mainland and Taiwan just as badly.

 

[CardSharp]

Why associate the democratic KMT soldiers with those from the PRC? Their war crimes are well known and they treated people in both mainland and Taiwan just as badly.

I'm starting to think that lines between Chinese and communist is blurred for the expediencies of hate.

 

[gambit]

Why associate the democratic KMT soldiers with those from the PRC? Their war crimes are well known and they treated people in both mainland and Taiwan just as badly.

Because it was the PRC who 'advised' the Viet Minh. The KMT soldiers were the ones who took authority from the Japanese garrisons. At the end of WW II, order still had to be maintained wherever the Japanese was in power. Japanese troops were instructed NOT to give up arms and to maintain their authority until a competent Allied power could take over. For northern Viet Nam, that competent Allied power was the KMT. Do not quibble with me about the context of the word 'competent'. It would truly be a pettiness unworthy of a reasonable debate. Anyway...For southern Viet Nam, that competent Allied power was the British. Once China's internal struggle began, the KMT had nothing more to do with Viet Nam. It was PRC meddling in Indochina's affairs all the way to the end.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

Am glad we agree that communists deserve to be in Hell.

Only in your deluded mind would you think I'm agreeing with you. I am merely correcting your poor use of grammar.

My Grandpa was a communist. He worked hard his entire life, had children, and took care of his grandchildren instead of arguing ideological crap on a defense forum. He was a thousand times the man you are.

You are a established racist against your own countrymen. There is no question on your destination after your pathetic expiration.

 

[gambit]

Only in your deluded mind would you think I'm agreeing with you. I am merely correcting your poor use of grammar.

If you have to resort to picking on someone's grammar on a publicly accessible forum where many, if not most, have English as a non-native language, that just goes to show how small minded you are.

My Grandpa was a communist. He worked hard his entire life, had children, and took care of his grandchildren instead of arguing ideological crap on a defense forum. He was a thousand times the man you are.

So are you a communist? If not, that would make you a betrayer to his beliefs.

You are a established racist against your own countrymen. There is no question on your destination after your pathetic expiration.

One cannot be a 'racist' to a fellow countryman. On the other hand, it is possible for one ethnic group to consider themselves to be superior in a 'racialist' context to other ethnic groups. Just because I criticize the communist government of current Viet Nam and supported the independence of the once South Viet Nam against communism, that does not make me a 'racist'. And you have the gall to call me on my grammar?

 

[tanlixiang28776]

If you have to resort to picking on someone's grammar on a publicly accessible forum where many, if not most, have English as a non-native language, that just goes to show how small minded you are.

Are you not a American? It was difficult to ignore your clearly wrong bolded words. English is not my first language either but I make a effort of being understandable.

So are you a communist? If not, that would make you a betrayer to his beliefs.

I am not a communist but I am proud to be Chinese. You on the other hand hate your own country and people and refuse to be identified as Vietnamese. There are two flags on this forum for a reason. You also ignore the main message of my statement. You, a democratic self-hating Vietnamese American are far inferior to my communist Chinese grandfather. Do not presume to judge any communist when you are far worse.

One cannot be a 'racist' to a fellow countryman. On the other hand, it is possible for one ethnic group to consider themselves to be superior in a 'racialist' context to other ethnic groups. Just because I criticize the communist government of current Viet Nam and supported the independence of the once South Viet Nam against communism, that does not make me a 'racist'. And you have the gall to call me on my grammar?

It is perfectly possible for people to be racist against their own countrymen. You were born Vietnamese yet you refuse to be identified as one and adamantly proclaim that you are American. You as a self described American have completely ignored the suffering of common Vietnamese people during the Vietnam War and justify it by proclaiming it was all caused by self inflicted communism.

Racism towards one's own race is a form of self loathing. There are a few rather prominent examples of this in history.

Dave Chapelle, Black KKK

I have the gall to respond to perceived errors in your poor sentence formation. You however do not have the gall to even respond entirely to my posts. You cowardly highlight small parts of my post and twist them into something entirely irrelevant.

 

[fida jan]

there is no difference between the nazis and the americans, both committed war crimes on weaker nations, america even today is shameless to carry on its brutal acts in afghanistan and iraq..

nazis were war heroes too for their nation, they were victors and not criminals, but they were demonized by their rival americans, both killed each other, for nazis americans were demons.. and its also true, history is written by the winners and not losers.. so nazis became demons and americans heroes of the world

so americans think their fallen soldiers were 'war heroes' and were 'fighting for their country' but they dont realize the world will forget them and will always remember them as occupiers, n again yes history is written by victors...

this american writer never thought of how many veit cong soldiers(aside the civilians) were killed by them, on other hnd how many US civilians were killed by veit cong????, so its clear americans were occupiers other wise veitnamese has no will to kill americans.. americans were not war heroes, they were criminals

 

[tanlixiang28776]

there is no difference between the nazis and the americans, both committed war crimes on weaker nations, america even today is shameless to carry on its brutal acts in afghanistan and iraq..

nazis were war heroes too for their nation, they were victors and not criminals, but they were demonized by their rival americans, both killed each other, for nazis americans were demons.. and its also true, history is written by the winners and not losers.. so nazis became demons and americans heroes of the world

so americans think their fallen soldiers were 'war heroes' and were 'fighting for their country' but they dont realize the world will forget them and will always remember them as occupiers, n again yes history is written by victors...

this american writer never thought of how many veit cong soldiers(aside the civilians) were killed by them, how many US civilians were killed by veit cong, so its clear americans were occupiers other wise veitnamese has no will to kill americans.. americans were not war heroes, they were criminals

wrong thread for you.

 

[redfox]

Dunno wherever you copied/pasted that from, it sounded like a bad high school report...

No...At the end of WW II, China was hardly established as a communist country. Mao and Chiang were still contending forces with their respective sponsors, Russia and the US-led Allies, on what direction should China take.


If this truly was a high school History report, I would give it an epic F. Obviously you did not read the argument I presented so I will spell it out for you...

Pentagon Papers, Gravel Edition, Summary and Chapter I

Even before the end of WW II, the US already had plans for Indochina -- independence. Of course, war time necessities pushed this plan into the background. Though Roosevelt died, the US under Truman had no reasons to deviate from that plan. The US never had any colonial interests on mainland China the way the Europeans did. That was why Roosevelt commented about the French and British attitudes regarding Indochina under UN trusteeship towards independence.

The true reason why France managed to re-entered Indochina...

Ho

Look closely at the date and see for yourself. France was anxious to reclaim Indochina the way any colonial power would. China was already in the beginning of an internal power struggle between Mao and Chiang. Non-communist nationalists were voicing their opposition to Ho in northern Viet Nam. They had to go. France endowed Ho with some measure of authority backed up by military force. The result was the slaughter of non-communist nationalists under the hands of the Viet Minh and France. No one in the Allies camp 'gave' Viet Nam, north or south, to anyone. Once France was back into Indochina at the invitation of the Viet Minh, what else could anyone do?


Of course the Chinese mistreated the Viet. They viewed themselves as 'Sons of Heaven', as recalled by this man...

Amazon.com: Following Ho Chi Minh: The Memoirs of a North Vietnamese Colonel (9780824822330): Bui Tin: Books

Chinese 'advisors' did more than just 'advised' the Viet Minh. They falsely accused loyal Viet Minh members, high and low, abused the Viet peasantry in crimes that involved even rapes and murders and Ho was too cowardly to stand up for his people. By this time, the conflict against France was underway. So it is not true that Ho was removed from power. He never was in power. He got into power via an agreement with France that in principle gave France all the justification they need to reclaim a colony.

So here are the true instigators of the Vietnam War, in order:

- Ho Chi Minh
- France
- China

I see no reason to continue. You failed.

Your knowledge of your history has only been based on the US, France, and whoever else about Vietnam. Never, ever have you used Vietnam history.
So your argument means absolutely nothing to me.

China communism evolved before the end of WWII. Vietnam adopted its' communism roots from China.

You can listen to frenchmen all you want, they only invaded and occupied our soil for so long according to them.

My only failure is never supporting Vietnam enough. Not like someone else here that can't accept their own history.

And here, this is my 'F' for you!

 

[gambit]

Your knowledge of your history has only been based on the US, France, and whoever else about Vietnam. Never, ever have you used Vietnam history.

Do you dispute the historical account that Ho Chi Minh INVITED France back into Viet Nam?

So your argument means absolutely nothing to me.

This is not about you. This is about information presented to a public wanting to know all sides of a historical event.

China communism evolved before the end of WWII.

Incorrect. Communism was in China, but the ideology was not dominant. It was a competitor to other factions.

Vietnam adopted its' communism roots from China.

Why?

You can listen to frenchmen all you want, they only invaded and occupied our soil for so long according to them.

A meaningless argument. France, as a colonial power, was on the way out. WW II ensured that. But guess who brought France back in.

My only failure is never supporting Vietnam enough. Not like someone else here that can't accept their own history.

And here, this is my 'F' for you!

You were probably US borned, therefore your life has nothing to do with Viet Nam. The money I have been sending back to VN all these decades done more for VN than your convenient and shallow 'patriotism' will ever can. It helped them buy black market food and medicines. It helped with the inevitable bribes to get anything done to improve their neighborhood.

When my family name was finally removed from the communist blacklist, and yes, young one, there was such a list, I was finally able to go back for a visit, my status as an active duty US military member back then offered some additional protection. The people were miserable, hateful of the communists, but were to afraid to speak up. They do not care for the name 'Ho Chi Minh City'. It was 'Saigon' and just like how Leningrad was erased off the map, HCM City will be so and in YOUR lifetime at that.

If you care about the birth country of your parents, stop your blind support for the current government there. Do whatever you can to change its evolution into a more democratic entity and keep the pressure to maintain that course.

 

[CardSharp]

I'm curious gambit. Do you still speak Vietnamese?

 

[tanlixiang28776]

Don't have anything to respond to my post with Gambit?

 

[gambit]

Are you not a American? It was difficult to ignore your clearly wrong bolded words. English is not my first language either but I make a effort of being understandable.

It was not 'wrongly' done but intentional. I meant it to be that Hell is FOR communists. For you to failed to understand that and to correct me on my grammar showed your pettiness.

I am not a communist...

Why not? What is wrong, to you, about communism that you would reject it?

...but I am proud to be Chinese.

Good for you.

You on the other hand hate your own country and people and refuse to be identified as Vietnamese.

Epic wrong. It is only the false dichotomy that you Chinese boys tried to foist upon the public: That if I do not side with you boys I hate the country of my birth.

You do understand the phrase 'false dichotomy', no?

There are two flags on this forum for a reason.

Yes...And am here as a US citizen, not a Vietnamese citizen. You do understand the context between being a 'citizen' and an 'ethnic', no?

You also ignore the main message of my statement. You, a democratic self-hating Vietnamese American are far inferior to my communist Chinese grandfather.

And I disagree. Me being a democrat make me a far superior being than any commie.

Do not presume to judge any communist when you are far worse.

And I disagree. Me being a democrat make me a far superior being than any commie.

It is perfectly possible for people to be racist against their own countrymen.

No it is not possible as being an Asian is a member of the social construct 'race'. Your argument is like saying a black believe the Negro 'race' to be inferior. On the other hand, it is possible for a Hutu to believe himself to be superior to a Tutsi, just like how you Chinese boys believe yourselves to be superior to other Asiatics.

You were born Vietnamese yet you refuse to be identified as one and adamantly proclaim that you are American. You as a self described American have completely ignored the suffering of common Vietnamese people during the Vietnam War and justify it by proclaiming it was all caused by self inflicted communism.

Of course communism inflicted needless suffering. It did in China, Russia, Europe, and just about any place it reared its ugly serpent head. And please spare me your crocodile tears for the Vietnamese people. It was China who gave us that abomination ideology. Since China had to abandon a large part of that ideology to save China from the fate that felled upon the USSR, that mean it is a tacit acknowledgment that the introduction of communism into Viet Nam was flawed. China owes Viet Nam a moral apology.

I have the gall to respond to perceived errors in your poor sentence formation. You however do not have the gall to even respond entirely to my posts. You cowardly highlight small parts of my post and twist them into something entirely irrelevant.

Crap. Not worth responding.