Vietnam visit: Anti-American exhibits abound, but people are friendly

[scuthan]

you are right USA launched a "war on terror". so it didn't need approval from UN Security council. And poor Afghanistanis were sent to guantanamo without being treated as POW cuz they are terrorists.

FYI, china did not directly get involved in a war with south vietnam, if china were to send PLA to south vietnam and built military bases in Saigon after war and control the new govts like what US did to Afghanistan and what USSR did to East Europe. it would be fair to say china is "imperialism"

 

[gambit]

It wasn't flawed understanding, it was even documented in the documentary.

Of course it was a flawed understanding. The speculation was between Ho Chi Minh and Emperor Bao Dai, the latter everyone do not want. That comparison was the source for that %80 figure for Ho. But the uncomfortable truth here is that if Ho was so popular, then why did not the South rose against the Diem government during the 1968 Tet Offensive?

Ho was the one requested for help and gave Chinese the green light to enter Vietnam yes? Just like how the south, clearly has no backbone, asked for themselves to be colonized some more and seeked help from the Americans. They both are in need of a strong ally, that was their vip ticket to Vietnam. Hence China and America both get to meddle in Vietnam.

Colonized? Nice but a feeble attempt. I could say the same thing that North Viet Nam asked to be colonized by China.

It was a propaganda extravaganza either way. False flag democracy that went against the will of its people against communist who wanted to help free the leash to create its own set of rules for its people.

Fine...But no matter how sham the democracy was in South Viet Nam, the fact that the people resisted communism. But we know that the will of the people is irrelevant for communists anyway. Still...No matter how odious the South Vietnamese government, China had no right to meddle and encourage a war.

 

[below_freezing]

Of course it was a flawed understanding. The speculation was between Ho Chi Minh and Emperor Bao Dai, the latter everyone do not want. That comparison was the source for that %80 figure for Ho. But the uncomfortable truth here is that if Ho was so popular, then why did not the South rose against the Diem government during the 1968 Tet Offensive?


Colonized? Nice but a feeble attempt. I could say the same thing that North Viet Nam asked to be colonized by China.


Fine...But no matter how sham the democracy was in South Viet Nam, the fact that the people resisted communism. But we know that the will of the people is irrelevant for communists anyway. Still...No matter how odious the South Vietnamese government, China had no right to meddle and encourage a war.

I'll answer for Tet Offensive: because they were scared of their whole families being brutally tortured and murdered like the regime did to others. Also note that the US Army bombed south vietnam and killed more people in south vietnam than in north vietnam! What a great way to treat your allies!

 

[tanlixiang28776]

I'll answer for Tet Offensive: because they were scared of their whole families being brutally tortured and murdered like the regime did to others. Also note that the US Army bombed south vietnam and killed more people in south vietnam than in north vietnam! What a great way to treat your allies!

What allies they were less than animals to tham.

 

[gambit]

you are right USA launched a "war on terror". so it didn't need approval from UN Security council.

At least we did not take the Chinese way: to refuse to acknowledge a country's legitimacy as you posited for South Viet Nam.

And poor Afghanistanis were sent to guantanamo without being treated as POW cuz they are terrorists.

To earn the PoW treatment, one has to be a soldier.

FYI, china did not directly get involved in a war with south vietnam, if china were to send PLA to south vietnam and built military bases in Saigon after war and control the new govts like what US did to Afghanistan and what USSR did to East Europe. it would be fair to say china is "imperialism"

China does not need to garrison any troops in Viet Nam in order for the country to be qualified as a puppet to China. All Viet Nam has to do is obey Beijing's orders.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

Well then there sure are a lot of American puppets then

 

[scuthan]

Fine...But no matter how sham the democracy was in South Viet Nam, the fact that the people resisted communism. But we know that the will of the people is irrelevant for communists anyway. Still...No matter how odious the South Vietnamese government, China had no right to meddle and encourage a war.

you only speak for yourself not south Vietnamese people.

 

[gambit]

I'll answer for Tet Offensive: because they were scared of their whole families being brutally tortured and murdered like the regime did to others. Also note that the US Army bombed south vietnam and killed more people in south vietnam than in north vietnam! What a great way to treat your allies!

Wrong...Making up histories along with 'statistics', eh?

Massacre at Hu

During the months and years that followed the Battle of Huế, which began on January 31, 1968 and lasted a total of 28 days, dozens of mass graves were discovered in and around Huế containing 2,800 to 6,000 civilians and prisoners of war.[1] Victims were found bound, tortured, and sometimes apparently buried alive.

South Vietnamese knew by then that this will result if they give in to communism. Of course, that fear came true after unification.

 

[gambit]

you only speak for yourself not south Vietnamese people.

Looks like the truth and facts are finally sinking in: That China is guilty of co-starting the Vietnam War.

 

[below_freezing]

Wrong...Making up histories along with 'statistics', eh?

Massacre at Hu

South Vietnamese knew by then that this will result if they give in to communism. Of course, that fear came true after unification.

what a joke, you think the Americans killed less with their B-52s?

Operation Rolling Thunder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Between March 1965 and November 1968, aircraft of the U.S. Air Force had flown 153,784 attack sorties against North Vietnam, while the Navy and Marine Corps had added another 152,399.[105] On 31 December 1967, the Department of Defense announced that 864,000 tons of American bombs had been dropped on North Vietnam during Rolling Thunder, compared with 653,000 tons dropped during the entire Korean War and 503,000 tons in the Pacific theater during the Second World War.[106]

The CIA estimated on 1 January 1968 that damage inflicted in the north totaled $370 million in physical destruction, including $164 million worth of damage to capital assets (such as factories, bridges, and power plants). The agency also estimated that approximately 1,000 casualties had been inflicted on the North Vietnamese population per week, or approximately 90,000 for the 44-month period, 72,000 of whom were civilians.[107] Due to combat and operational circumstances, 506 U.S. Air Force, 397 Navy, and 19 Marine Corps aircraft were lost over or near North Vietnam.[108][109] During the operation, of the 745 crewmen shot down, the U.S. Air Force recorded 145 rescued, 255 killed, 222 captured (23 of whom died in captivity), and 123 missing.[110] Figures on U.S. Navy and Marine Corps casualties were harder to come by. During the 44-month time frame, 454 Naval aviators were killed, captured, or missing during combined operations over North Vietnam and Laos.[111]

 

[gambit]

what a joke, you think the Americans killed less with their B-52s?

Operation Rolling Thunder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Between March 1965 and November 1968, aircraft of the U.S. Air Force had flown 153,784 attack sorties against North Vietnam, while the Navy and Marine Corps had added another 152,399.[105] On 31 December 1967, the Department of Defense announced that 864,000 tons of American bombs had been dropped on North Vietnam during Rolling Thunder, compared with 653,000 tons dropped during the entire Korean War and 503,000 tons in the Pacific theater during the Second World War.[106]

The CIA estimated on 1 January 1968 that damage inflicted in the north totaled $370 million in physical destruction, including $164 million worth of damage to capital assets (such as factories, bridges, and power plants). The agency also estimated that approximately 1,000 casualties had been inflicted on the North Vietnamese population per week, or approximately 90,000 for the 44-month period, 72,000 of whom were civilians.[107] Due to combat and operational circumstances, 506 U.S. Air Force, 397 Navy, and 19 Marine Corps aircraft were lost over or near North Vietnam.[108][109] During the operation, of the 745 crewmen shot down, the U.S. Air Force recorded 145 rescued, 255 killed, 222 captured (23 of whom died in captivity), and 123 missing.[110] Figures on U.S. Navy and Marine Corps casualties were harder to come by. During the 44-month time frame, 454 Naval aviators were killed, captured, or missing during combined operations over North Vietnam and Laos.[111]

Note the highlighted. Far more Vietnamese died after unification under purges than during the war.

 

[below_freezing]

Perhaps North Vietnam's ultimate resource was its population, which was fired by nationalist zeal. During 1965, 97,000 North Vietnamese volunteered to work full time in repairing the damage inflicted by U.S. bombs. Another 370,000-500,000 worked part time.[72] When the nation's lines of communication came under attack, railroad supply trains and truck convoys were split into smaller elements which traveled only at night. The logistical effort was supported by citizens on sampans, driving carts, pushing wheelbarrows, or man-portering supplies on their backs to keep the war effort going. They were motivated by slogans like "Each kilogram of goods...is a bullet shot into the head of the American pirates."[73]

 

[scuthan]

At least we did not take the Chinese way: to refuse to acknowledge a country's legitimacy as you posited for South Viet Nam.
.

Well china was not a belligerent of Vietnam war thus it makes no difference if we acknowledge it or not. Actually, USA did not acknowledge PRC back in 1960s and early 1970s. my opinion is that china never declared or started a war against south vietnam, as you stated.

To earn the PoW treatment, one has to be a soldier.

they are downright soliders of Afghanistani government.

China does not need to garrison any troops in Viet Nam in order for the country to be qualified as a puppet to China. All Viet Nam has to do is obey Beijing's orders

well the fact proves that both North Korea and New Vietnam are independent countries after war and china didn't control them like USSR and they don't take orders from beijing. still think china is imperialsim?

 

[gambit]

Well china was not a belligerent of Vietnam war thus it makes no difference if we acknowledge it or not. Actually, USA did not acknowledge PRC back in 1960s and early 1970s. my opinion is that china never declared or started a war against south vietnam, as you stated.

I said China is guilty of co-starting the Vietnam War. Since there were Chinese troop participation, as in manning air defense guns and even suspected Chinese pilots in air combat, that made China a belligerent in the war.

they are downright soliders of Afghanistani government.

Debatable at best.

well the fact proves that both North Korea and New Vietnam are independent countries after war and china didn't control them like USSR and they don't take orders from beijing. still think china is imperialsim.

That does not mean China cannot be an 'imperialist' like the charge so often mindlessly applied to US. But as far as the Vietnam War goes, North Viet Nam was China's puppet, no matter how much you Chinese boys wanted to deflect by calling South Viet Nam an American puppet.

 

[scuthan]

Looks like the truth and facts are finally sinking in: That China is guilty of co-starting the Vietnam War.

plz refrain from digressing, again you only speak for yourself not south Vietnamese people. majority vietnamnese bear grudge against US for its role in vietnam war.

Some chinese might regret to have helped vietnam which became of enemy of china later. but few people doubt the right course we help vietnamese people seek a independent coutry.