Vietnam visit: Anti-American exhibits abound, but people are friendly

[gambit]

china was among scores of countries which helped north Vietnam, you feel to view china is a belligerent or not. but it was not china started the war.

Yes, China did. If ousting France was all that there is, then fine, the Vietnamese are grateful. But once a large segment of the people rejected communism, China should have left Viet Nam, or at least do not encourage the false rally of 'liberation'.

they are soilders served the Afghanistani army. they should be treated as POW. your defending to US is understandale, but your point is ludricous.

Do you even know how to qualify a 'soldier'?

Despite that both USSR and China backed Ho chimin in the war , they were enemies at that time. After war vietnam standed on USSR's side to contain China, would you mind telling me why North Vietnam was china's puppet rather than USSR's?

Am talking about during the war. If South Viet Nam was a puppet to the US, so was North Viet Nam to China. Geographically, it make more sense to be nominally allied to China. Any assistance from the USSR would either have to pass through China or through the sea lanes, which was vulnerable to American forces.

the argument that US is imperialist is valid as you can see that Japan, South Korea, Afghanstan, Iraq and etc are not politically, diplomatically, militarily independent as today's Vietnam and North Korea. it doesn't apply to china.

Viet Nam's independence from China still does not mean China cannot be as equally an 'imperialist' should Viet Nam chose the alternate course. This is what you have been trying to avoid: any label that you Chinese boys conveniently attached to the US...

 

[gambit]

If you don't think of China as communist why do you keep calling us commies?

You can't have it both ways.

Because the dominant political structures are still 'communist'.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

Because the dominant political structures are still 'communist'.

Then I guess it still works then doesn't it

 

[scuthan]

Democracy by its nature of allowing competition and encouraging compromises is naturally evolutionary. Guess who collapsed?

China is not a communist country by PRC's constitution, China is a socialist country by law. stop calling us commie.
both western camp and east block called themselves democracy and the opposite dictatorship. and every country think their own government is real democracy and the others are fake.

you'd better use right word to modify the word "democracy" nect time. e.g. "American democracy" or "our democracy"

 

[gambit]

Then I guess it still works then doesn't it

If you can call it that.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

If you can call it that.

You said it was a complete failure. That is not the case.

 

[Obambam]

We know that King was wrong about the highlighted, do we?

He was so wrong in colour and in speech that he got assasinated in a country that supports a democratic government?

During the war, the refugee flow was consistently North-South. The North Vietnamese may not have been able to 'turn' on Ho but by fleeing southward, the refugees spoke loud enough of their opinions.

I would like to see your source for the above. My take would be that the north was so heavily bombarded that the refugees had no choice but to flee down south where they feel it is safer and that they would have more chance of not getting bombed into oblivion.

The implication here is that South Vietnam turned to America and therefore the South Vietnamese was seeking American colonialism. Not talking about France by this time.

As I said before, one side is happy to be colonized but the other isn't. The Vietnamese people wanted freedom therefore backed Ho Chi Minh's campaign for and went through thick and thin with him until total Independence was achieved.

A 'modernized' version of communism? If communism was so good, why is there a need to 'modernized' it? The simple microwave oven that we take for granted today came from which camp? Same for the Internet? I see nothing here but more propaganda.

Like I said earlier to someone. These regimes are games and games never stops developing new sets of rules. If democracy was never modernized, then will we be seeing a black president today?

 

[gambit]

China is not a communist country by PRC's constitution, China is a socialist country by law. stop calling us commie.
both western camp and east block called themselves democracy and the opposite dictatorship. and every country think their own government is real democracy and the others are fake.

you'd better use right word to modify the word "democracy" nect time. e.g. "American democracy" or "our democracy"

I played tourist in East Berlin when it existed. What a dump that was. I have always laughed at any communist regime that attached the label 'Democratic' to its name. So tell me, would you rather live in 'Democratic' North Korea or 'democratic' South Korea?

 

[below_freezing]

Air Force records show that at least 6,542 spraying missions took place over the course of Operation Ranch Hand.[5] By 1971, 12 percent of the total area of South Vietnam had been sprayed with defoliating chemicals, which were often applied at rates that were 13 times as high as the legal USDA limit.[6] In South Vietnam alone, an estimated 10 million hectares of agricultural land were ultimately destroyed.[7] In some areas TCDD concentrations in soil and water were hundreds of times greater than the levels considered "safe" by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.[8][9] Overall, more than 20% of South Vietnam's forests were sprayed at least once over a nine year period.[4]

The RAND Corporation's Memorandum 5446-ISA/ARPA states that: "the fact that the VC obtain most of their food from the neutral rural population dictates the destruction of civilian crops ... if they (the VC) are to be hampered by the crop destruction program, it will be necessary to destroy large portions of the rural economy – probably 50% or more".[44]

Rural-to-urban migration rates dramatically increased in South Vietnam, as peasants escaped the destruction in the countryside by fleeing to the U.S.-dominated cities. The urban population in South Vietnam more than tripled: from 2.8 million people in 1958, to 8 million by 1971. The rapid flow of people led to a fast-paced and uncontrolled urbanization; an estimated 1.5 million people were living in Saigon slums, while many South Vietnamese elites and U.S. personnel lived in luxury.[10]

 

[Obambam]

China is not a communist country by PRC's constitution, China is a socialist country by law. stop calling us commie.
both western camp and east block called themselves democracy and the opposite dictatorship. and every country think their own government is real democracy and the others are fake.

you'd better use right word to modify the word "democracy" nect time. e.g. "American democracy" or "our democracy"

Socialism with Chinese characteristics

 

[gambit]

He was so wrong in colour and in speech that he got assasinated in a country that supports a democratic government?

No...King was wrong when he said the US government gave Viet Nam back to France. It was Ho Chi Minh who gave Viet Nam back to France...

Ho

The Ho–Sainteny agreement was an agreement made March 6, 1946 between Ho Chi Minh, President of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam, and Jean Sainteny, Special Envoy of France. It recognized Vietnam as a "Free State" within the French Union, and permitted France to continue stationing troops in North Vietnam until 1951.

Do you dispute this historical fact? Be brave and say if you do.

I would like to see your source for the above. My take would be that the north was so heavily bombarded that the refugees had no choice but to flee down south where they feel it is safer and that they would have more chance of not getting bombed into oblivion.

Wrong...The refugee flow began even BEFORE the war when the Viet Minh started prosecuting religious leaders, particularly Catholics and Buddhists, for their objections to communism. Are you going to deny the flight of the Montagnards during the war or the 'boat people' after unification?

As I said before, one side is happy to be colonized but the other isn't. The Vietnamese people wanted freedom therefore backed Ho Chi Minh's campaign for and went through thick and thin with him until total Independence was achieved.

So are you saying that South Viet Nam was looking for American colonialism?

Like I said earlier to someone. These regimes are games and games never stops developing new sets of rules. If democracy was never modernized, then will we be seeing a black president today?

Democracy by its nature of allowing competition and compromises is naturally evolutionary. Do you have a problem with that?

 

[Obambam]

I played tourist in East Berlin when it existed. What a dump that was. I have always laughed at any communist regime that attached the label 'Democratic' to its name. So tell me, would you rather live in 'Democratic' North Korea or 'democratic' South Korea?

East Germany's democracy could have developed into what is today's Chinese democracy. You can see for yourself how well we Chinese are doing today. It's still not perfect as we are 1.3 billion people in all. Just like how Vietnam, North Korea could have developed if they were given the freedom to develop without unwanted foreign interventions. It is the very democracy that you are talking about that is making people suffer. Would North Korea be like this without the west sanctioning them? Sanctions is a form of unwanted foreign intevention that hurts people more than the government.

 

[scuthan]

Am talking about during the war. If South Viet Nam was a puppet to the US, so was North Viet Nam to China. Geographically, it make more sense to be nominally allied to China. Any assistance from the USSR would either have to pass through China or through the sea lanes, which was vulnerable to American forces.

Viet Nam's independence from China still does not mean China cannot be as equally an 'imperialist' should Viet Nam chose the alternate course. This is what you have been trying to avoid: any label that you Chinese boys conveniently attached to the US...

Why doesn't? is it you or I tried to avoid something? i am using logics and solid historical and realistic evidence to prove that Vietnam is a not a puppet of china but a militarily, politically, diplomatically independent country unlike South korea, Japan, Afghanstan, Iraq. US is a imperialist country not china.

it is you are labeling china with "imperialist" without any convincing argument. who is the fan boy

 

[gambit]

East Germany's democracy could have developed into what is today's Chinese democracy. You can see for yourself how well we Chinese are doing today. It's still not perfect as we are 1.3 billion people in all.

Sure it 'could have'...

Just like how Vietnam, North Korea could have developed if they were given the freedom to develop without unwanted foreign interventions. It is the very democracy that you are talking about that is making people suffer. Would North Korea be like this without the west sanctioning them? Sanctions is a form of unwanted foreign intevention that hurts people more than the government.

That sanctions canard again? A sanction is not a blockade, which is an act of war. What is preventing China or Cuba or Russia or Iran from doing business with North Korea? What make you believe anyone is 'entitled' to other people's goods? South Korea and Japan defied the US and invested in Viet Nam long before President Clinton lifted the trade embargo. This is a tired argument in trying to defend the epic failure of communism throughout the world.

 

[gambit]

Why doesn't? is it you or I tried to avoid something? i am using logics and solid historical and realistic evidence to prove that Vietnam is a not a puppet of china but a militarily, politically, diplomatically independent country unlike South korea, Japan, Afghanstan, Iraq. US is a imperialist country not china.

it is you are labeling china with "imperialist" without any convincing argument. who is the fan boy

Sure...And China had nothing to do with starting the Vietnam War.