Vietnam vice minister apologizes to Japan for “$2 Billion loan” gaffe

[Rechoice]

No, ODA only bring benefit to the corrupted officials and dirty loanshark (JP Govt). ODA means u have to buy low quality JP products wt high price. For example: A JP car cost 10.000 USD , but when u buy it wt ODA, u will have to buy it wt 14,000 USD. If they only give u $10,000 , it means u only can buy a low quality car wt real price is $ 6,000

Many ODA project must cut 40 % to the board of management (dont know how many % the JP contractors got). So, who got the benefit here ??

Again, I say I agree partly with you.

There is grant aid ODA, no need to pay back.


With big project, as I know there is international open Tender, the Bidding should been applied to permit participate to other big contractors from other countries in the world, not only limited to Japanese company.

Hai Van Tunnel project contract price is only 66 % of bidding price (the cost estimated made by consultant, approved by both side ODA donor and ODA receiver agency).

how to post pic, pls to find here.
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[Rechoice]

The Vietcong doesn't even have 10% of competence comparing to CPC, that's why so many Viet members are disappointed with their incompetence.

CPC is not perfect, but they are still the best form of government that China could have.

If it wasn't CPC, China would definitely remain as an under-developed sh1thole, and no way that you guys in the West would become so obsessed of taking on China.

You should be right in case corrupted officials in Vietnam got only 10% when corrupted Chinese officials in China got 100 %.

 

[NiceGuy]

Again, I say I agree partly with you.

There is grant aid ODA, no need to pay back.


With big project, as I know there is international open Tender, the Bidding should been applied to permit participate to other big contractors from other countries in the world, not only limited to Japanese company.

Hai Van Tunnel project contract price is only 66 % of bidding price (the cost estimated made by consultant, approved by both side ODA donor and ODA receiver agency).

how to post pic, pls to find here.
How to attach images on PDF tutorial (new method)

Hai Van tunnel is very important project, it helps people to drive from the North to the South faster, and its the only high way to go from North and South, so we can not make mistake on it .

But what I wanna say here is that JP Govt. always try to take advantage on us wt ODA to keep VN in poor whenever they have the chance, they dont help us to become stronger as many people think coz Strong Vn is not good for them, they dont wanna have one more competitor. Just like Strong S.K beat them easily on high tech products like smart phones, TV etc and make Sony go bankrupt .

 

[NiceGuy]

Let's put it this way:

A con artist approaches you and want to cheat some money from you. You have 2 options:

1. Play his game, outsmart him and make some money from him.

2. Tell him to piss off. You dont want to waste your time playing his dirty game.

Both options are good. Both of you want to take the first option.

Others, (@NiceGuy?), want to take the second option, which is also reasonable.

Actually, I think NiceGuy said the Vietnamese people is also taking the first option and will revenge Japan in their dirty game. @NiceGuy can you confirm?

And yes, I might sound harsh calling Japanese ODA lenders as con artist but if you read all the articles I've posted, I'm not really far off.

I only have the right to criticize my Govt., I cant make action now, so, JP Govt. should keep praying and hope I never have the right to prosecute their contractors and their dirty ODA to international court in my life.

And I hope they dont go bankrupt like SoViet union when sending their Tax to our greedy Govt., they always need money to fund 3 millions VN communist members, Laos-Camb and pro-VN generals in Thai. That cost a lot, 2 more billions seem not enough

 

[Aepsilons]

It's not the problm of ODAs, it's the problem of local official's IQ ... They even can corrupt money from foreign aid funds, wtf ???

Indeed. The shear fact of the fatalism seen in some posters from this country just amazes me, as well. Definitely they need to adopt and apply Mohism.

 

[cnleio]

Indeed. The shear fact of the fatalism seen in some posters from this country just amazes me, as well. Definitely they need to adopt and apply Mohism.

LOL ... im sorry Vietnamese had abandoned HanZi/Kanji since French seized the Sino-China region ... if their generation can't understand HanZi/Kanji on those history books, Mohism idea can not work in Vietnam.

Those different ancient Chinese ideas inherit to generations by HanZi/Kanji ... not Latin charactors.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

You should be right in case corrupted officials in Vietnam got only 10% when corrupted Chinese officials in China got 100 %.

How could you measure the corruption difference between both communist party?

The fact speaks more than million words; CPC made China rich and lifted more than a billion of people from the poverty, also build up a strong industry complex that rivals that of the US. What Vietcong made your Vietnam being proud of?

 

[William Hung]

You should be right in case corrupted officials in Vietnam got only 10% when corrupted Chinese officials in China got 100 %.

How could you measure the corruption difference between both communist party?

The fact speaks more than million words; CPC made China rich and lifted more than a billion of people from the poverty, also build up a strong industry complex that rivals that of the US. What Vietcong made your Vietnam being proud of?

Both of you are derailing this thread. Just make a new thread if you want to have a China vs. VietNam corruption debate.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Both of you are derailing this thread. Just make a new thread if you want to have a China vs. VietNam corruption debate.

I am not the one who derailed the topic first.

Just ask @mike2000 and the Viet members here stop being so obsessed about China.

 

[William Hung]

I am not the one who derailed the topic first.

Just ask @mike2000 and the Viet members here stop being so obsessed about China.

This thread is about VietNam and Japanese ODA, and International aid in general.

@mike2000 was only using China as an example of dealing with Africa without "aid". He did not say anything bad about China.

It only escalated when some members mentioned about VietNam being ungrateful. Thats why I said you guys should make a new thread if you want a China vs VietNam debate.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

This thread is about VietNam and Japanese ODA, and International aid in general.

@mike2000 was only using China as an example of dealing with Africa without "aid". He did not say anything bad about China.

It only escalated when some members mentioned about VietNam being ungrateful. Thats why I said you guys should make a new thread if you want a China vs VietNam debate.

@mike2000 has brought China into the corruption debate, my post was merely a counter attack.

 

[William Hung]

I only have the right to criticize my Govt., I cant make action now, so, JP Govt. should keep praying and hope I never have the right to prosecute their contractors and their dirty ODA to international court in my life.

And I hope they dont go bankrupt like SoViet union when sending their Tax to our greedy Govt., they always need money to fund 3 millions VN communist members, Laos-Camb and pro-VN generals in Thai. That cost a lot, 2 more billions seem not enough

All the corrupted Viet officials and Japan govt (JICA) are at fault. But the Japanese are more at fault. They are more accountable for the ODA corruption problem.

These kind of dirty games only work in 2 type of country:

1. A country that has an uninformed population. Civilians that don't understand this dirty game. Most African victims belong to this type of country.

2. A country that may have an informed population, but has an Authoritarian govt so that it's hard for the average civilian to have any influence. VietNam is closer to this type.

In both of these types of country, it is hard for the average civilian to change or influence their govt. But it is very easy for foreign government to stop their aid or reform their aid mechanism so that it is harder for corruption to take place in ODA projects.

So I say, the donor countries like Japan is more accountable for these ODA corruption. They have more influence than the average civilians in these recipient countries like VietNam or Africa. Yes, the local corrupted officials are at fault too, but more faults belong to Japan.

 

[William Hung]

It's not the problm of ODAs, it's the problem of local official's IQ ... They even can corrupt money from foreign aid funds, wtf ???

Yes it is a problem of Japanese ODA. Read my previous posts on how the Japanese ODA mechanism operates. Their mechanism makes it very very easy for ODA corruption to exist.

Further back in the thread, @mike2000 wrote many posts on how western countries have designed their aid program so that local African officials can easily be bribed and their country will always take in loans and always be in debt. NiceGuy is saying that Japan is playing this same game with VietNam.

You can read back on my previous posts about Japanese ODA and decide for yourself if Japan is really playing this same game with VietNam or not.

I give u 3rd opinion ...

3. Play this game, make some money(20%) from him and (80%) efficiently invest local development, then make some money both from him(20%) and local economy(20%), later sell goods to him and make more money (50%) from him ... the story will keep going to earn more & more money (>100%).

At least im sure Chinese did this ... lol.

Heh this was my first option wasn't it?

 

[NiceGuy]

lool yes i know, Some vietnamese mebers here like Nice guy have indeed made some not so appropriate statements/comments on here(like wanting to unify sub mekong region under Vietnam.lol). But i do like Nice guy though he makes me laugh/has a good humor and most of all his way of saying things/commenting while eating pop corn. I dont know why but i like his way of speaking, even though i dont always agree with so eof his point of view, but they are indeed funny and keeps me happy/smiling.

Just like soem of the points he made on here i.e: ' Then u should forget ur loan, coz u never get it back. Our greedy Govt. even ask for more 2 billion loan from u and Im sure they will find all ways to take the 'loan' from ur Govt coz they r so greedy.' he is right on this one though.

another one: 'playing dirty trick to our corrupted Govt. is very dangerous game coz they r very greedy, if JP stop sending ODA to make them get richer, they may support Russia to make more trouble to u in Northern territories until u cant bear anymore and have to send ODA to VN again.'

This one killed me man, it was soo hilarious, a master piece to be honest. Japan better watch its back.
To be nice guy is the coolest guy on here, i like his way of saying things.

Yeah, it sound soo hilarious, but its the truth to what we r doing in Ukraine. As u know, our missile bound to Ukraine make the situation get worse , in return , we may got some rewards from big bro Russia

Vietnam missiles bound for Ukraine intercepted by Finnish custom

A shipment of missile components bound for Ukraine and intercepted by Finnish customs originated in Vietnam, reports the daily Helsingin Sanomat. The paper wrote Friday that in June Finnish customs officers blocked the large consignment because it lacked the permits required to transit through Finland.
According to Helsingin Sanomat, the impounded shipment of components for what appears to be a missile guidance system originated in Vietnam and was bound for Ukraine.

Customs officials are awaiting confirmation from Finland’s defence forces on what kind of missile system parts are being delivered and at the same time trying to determine who will be on the receiving end in Ukraine.

They are also investigating whether or not the parts had been serviced in Vietnam as well as the reason why Finland was listed as a transit point on the bill of lading.

Customs officials will also be turning their attention to the airline that transported the components to discover what role it played in the entire scenario. At this point however the airline itself is not suspected of violating export regulations.

One of the largest arms seizures
Finnish Customs say the shipment in question is one of the largest consignments of arms they have ever intercepted. Over the years they have seized about a dozen or so loads of suspected military hardware, some of it bound for countries facing arms embargoes.

Just last year customs officers were engaged in a cross-border investigation into an apparent attempt to smuggle tank parts into war-torn Syria through Finland, in spite of an international arms embargo.
Daily reports Ukraine missile shipment from Vietnam | Yle Uutiset | yle.fi


Source: Vietnam missiles bound for Ukraine intercepted by Finnish custom

So, we simply dont know what will happen when JP refuse to send 2 billion. Our Govt. have 3 millions communist members to feed, Hun Sen in Cambodia, Laos Govt., pro-VN generals in Thai also waiting for aid from VN ,too

 

[cnleio]

Heh this was my first option wasn't it?

No, more money take from foreign aid funds and less really invest to local economy development, so no option 3.

Invest 40%~60% to develop is different with 80% money into there... it's unwork.