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Vietnam vice minister apologizes to Japan for “$2 Billion loan” gaffe

@Nihonjin1051 I would like to ask you a question

Why Japanese Consultant Company didn't reported to related agencies of Vietnam to prevent such scandal ?

Did Japanese Consultant paid the borbey money voluntarly ?
 
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No, more money take from foreign aid funds and less really invest to local economy development, so no option 3.

Invest 40%~60% to develop is different with 80% money into there... it's unwork.

They are not designed to work!!!!! :lol: As Mike2000 has explained, these "AID" are designed so that the poor countries will have to keep borrowing and borrowing and borrowing and will always be in debt. Meaning, these "aid" program are designed so that the borrower will become a slave to the master who provides these loans.

Have you seen this youtube cartoon? I don't agree with the part on terrorists but everything else they describe looks like the VN-JP ODA relationship:

 
Chinese new rich members on here, I'm at work at the moment. When I'm back home, I will give you a befitting reply. :-)
 
is VN corrupt? yes

JP? unfortunately, too. the last corruption case where vietnamese officials were arrested because they received bribes from Japanese contractors speaks volumes. many developed countries including America and German sanction companies if they pay bribes, I´m not sure if Japan sanctions corruptions in overseas. if you are poor you will hardly resist to accept money.
 
Chinese new rich members on Here , I will give you a befitting reply when I'm back from work, or maybe while driving home.:p::D So see you soon . :pop:
 
18 billion USD for a freaking airport?

In Vietnam?

Would our Vietnamese friends care to tell us the amount of tax revenues collected by the central governent for the whole of 2013?:D
not sure if your question is answered: it was about $35.6 billion.
I actually favor the government should spend some $1-2 billions for the expansion of the current airport and the rest for a new highspeed rail north-south.
 
A quick google search reveals that Viet government critics are routinely arrested and tortured. Why even bother lying about something like that? :pop:

It's hilarious that you accuse the Japanese engineered highway as being low quality. :rofl: But no matter what, I'd much rather drive on a Japanese highway than a Viet dirt path.:pop:

It's not the Japanese engineers are low quality. It's the garbage effort they put in is low. They know they can do better. They know the Vietnamese engineers are no good, yet still allow them to perform some work without proper years and years of training and mentoring. So to help Nihonjin1051 understand the real issue is to realize that your government "AID" is not set up to help the Vietnamese in an honest way. The Chinese knows this from history. In fact, they even made movie about the Japs.

So Nihonjin1051, I am not against your opinion and your tax dollars. If you truly believe your government is helping the Vietnamese, then why are there so many Vietnamese members on here against your government ODA? If you are a truly honest and proud person, then you should be OPEN up to other people's opinion, regardless of how they may sound.

Because for you to take someone's opinion as stupid and dumb when you're the person sitting behind the computer from thousands of miles away and away from GROUND ZERO, you would never truly understand the truth and real problems. Therefore, this would make you look like a fool. If you truly want respect from the Vietnamese members, then go help them yourself.

Don't ask them for gratitude and demand it like you're someone extremely important and made a difference in changing the lives of thousands. In fact, YOU don't. Don't pride on something you didn't fully fulfill because that's what a fool/armature would do before he gets the pie.


Indeed. The shear fact of the fatalism seen in some posters from this country just amazes me, as well. Definitely they need to adopt and apply Mohism. :angel:

You sound like a broken record. You're a smart fellow but easily manipulated. Too bad to see a good guy like yourself turned sour in just a matter of seconds through a foolish debate. Self control dude. Not all Vietnamese people are ungrateful. But if it only take a few people to change your view on a specific group of individual, then you're no better than anyone.
 
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@Nihonjin1051 I would like to ask you a question

Why Japanese Consultant Company didn't reported to related agencies of Vietnam to prevent such scandal ?

Did Japanese Consultant paid the borbey money voluntarly ?


@Rechoice ,

I would like to elucidate you, your Vietnamese countrymen and others on the mechanisms that have been developed by Japan and Vietnam to evade instances of corruption that have been an unecessary pester:




Establishment of the Japan-Vietnam Joint Committee for Preventing Japanese ODA-related Corruption

The PCI case was taken seriously by both Governments because it could undermine the credibility of Japan’s ODA to Vietnam. Aware that it is necessary for the Governments, related agencies, and consulting companies in both countries to promptly address and implement effective measures against ODA-related corruption, to regain public trust in Japanese ODA to Vietnam, Mr. Masato Kitera, Director- General of International Cooperation Bureau, Ministry of Foreign Affairs, visited Vietnam from September 18 to 20, 2008. Mr. Kitera informed the Vietnamese Government of the serious public perception towards the PCI case in Japan and discussed with Mr. Vo Hong Phuc, Minister of Planning and Investment, and other government officials, how to tackle this problem, to regain public trust in Japan’s ODA to Vietnam.

Consequently, the Governments of Japan and Vietnam reconfirmed the seriousness of the PCI case and reaffirmed that ODA-related corruption cases, including the PCI case, would be strictly dealt with. Moreover, both Governments agreed to the establishment of a Vietnam-Japan Joint Committee for Preventing Japanese ODA-related Corruption to work jointly towards implementing effective measures against ODA-related corruption.

Subsequently, the Governments of Japan and Vietnam held the first meeting of the Committee on November 7, 2008, and the second one on December 19, 2008. The Committee discussed and examined concrete and effective new measures to be taken by Japan and by Vietnam respectively, to prevent recurrence of similar cases. As a result of the discussion, both Governments agreed to take the following measures.


Strengthening the system / organization to prevent corruption

(1) The National Strategy for Preventing and Combating Corruption towards 2020, which is now under final consideration of the Prime Minister, will be implemented in close consultation with donors.

(2) Based on the Strategy, Vietnam will implement the Action Plan as early as possible,
including:
(a) Ratification of the UN Convention against Corruption by June 2009.
(b) Review of the activities of the Steering Committee on Anti-Corruption (both
at central and regional levels) for enhanced effectiveness of anti-corruption
activities and strengthening of monitoring and supervision by the Central Committee.
(c)Issuance of Regulations on receiving and processing information and denunciations on corruption by June 2009.​

(3) The Ministry of Justice will draft a Decree on participation of the general public, social organizations, and socio-professional associations in policy / law-making by June 2009.

(4) The Ministry of Planning and Investment will establish a Code of Conduct / Ethics for bidding by June 2009. Upon the establishment of the Code of Conduct / Ethics, all related agencies and bidding companies will be obliged to sign and observe the Code.



Reference: Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Japan
000001568[1].jpg
 
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@Rechoice ,

It is regrettable that there were instances of corruption, and this was made known of the PCI incident back in 2008. To formally tackle this disparaging circumstance, the Government of Japan and Vietnam established “the Japan-Vietnam Joint Committee for Preventing Japanese ODA-related Corruption” as a response to the PCI bribery case in Vietnam. The report of the committee, which was published in January 2009, states that the Government of Japan will institutionalize a mechanism of handling information on corruption, including bribery. It is in my personal hope that this will lead to a more transparent rapport between both sides.
 
Ok...im back now my friends. Hope you people didnt miss me......huh ok i wish.:p::D

Ok coming back topic. I will like to say im shocked to see some Chinese(i guess out of the hatred they have for Vietnam) saying the 'aid' Japan and our governemnts in the west/U.S provided them helped them alot to developed. WTH, are you joking or being sarcastic?:woot::o: I will assume that was a joke, because i just cant imagine how someone who is well informed/doesnt have other intentions will say such a thing to be honest.:disagree: Anyway as i said before the Chinese member who said this, if he's indeed serious/believes what he said, then China should knee down and say a BIG THANK YOU/SHOW GRATITUDE TO Japan and the west/U.S for all our help then. :p: If you dont do that then you are selfish/ingratitude bastards like some say.:lol: So to the Chinese members who agreed with him, im waiting for a Thank you since our governemnts still provide you with aid even today. So you better be grateful/thank us for all the aid we have been giving you all these years/decades until today.:cheesy: If you dont, then you are just say Thank you, then you are not much different from the Vietnamese you criticize here then(well i understand its just because youhave a huge hatred for Vietnam, so seems you will ignore any reason and use any excuse/reason to bash them.lool). Thats not cool at all bro.:disagree:

I brought China into the debate as an example of aid not helping developed a country, but trade. Its true China also has corruption issue(much like Vietnam, if not more), Yes corruption in China today is still very serious(i can attest to that), but not out of control.The regime as a whole, as an institution, has not, thus far, degenerated into an instrument of plunder. I will compare today's China to America during the Gilded Age. However Corruption can degrade the quality of growth without reducing its nominal growth rate. So in the Chinese case, corruption has made food unsafe, increased income inequality, worsened environmental degradation, reduced social services, and resulted in widespread abuse of individual rights. If we take the low quality of life in China into account, the pernicious impact of corruption is substantial as well.:confused:

Second, in China's state-led and investment-driven growth model, corruption can inflate growth for an extended period of time. Since the bureaucracy allocates trillions of dollars in fixed investment, Chinese officials can get both kickbacks from such investments and generate growth (because investment adds to GDP). The real cost of this game is borne by the state-owned banking system, which finances all the growth-boosting but corruption-plagued investments.

Also the rampant corruption in China has not impede/reduced drastically/had a huge effect on Chinese growth partly because a huge portion of the Chinese economy actually lies beyond the grabbing hands of Chinese mandarins/corrupt officials, Since China's export-oriented sector, is mostly run by foreign-invested firms and closely integrated into the world market, is relatively safe from the depredations of greedy mandarins(just like niceguys 'greedy' vietnamese authorities:lol: ) officials.lool Though that is changing as well, as China moves up the value Chain and creates its own world tech Champions/companies.

However, since China is already an industrialzed/industrializing country, it already has that solid base for future growth, coupled with its large population/relatively low gdp per capital(which gives it a large room for growth) and as long as they are open to world trade, the country will still keep on growing to the point it at least reaches half of Japans/U.S productivity, which will mean it will have by far the largest economy in the world if it achieves that. So this shows, the country despite what most of us thinks, will still grow at a decent rate ofr a longgg time to come giving its huge/growing industrial base(which most developing countries lack), high savings level(which gives room/capital for the government to invest in productive/and even unproductive areas of the economy), citizens entrepreneurial nature etc. So China is indeed in a different position from most developing countries who dont have all of the above.

So aid had absolutely nothing to do with Chinas growth story. far from it. If China was relying on aid to grow, then believe me it will be in a far far worse situation than even the poorest country in Africa/Asia, our governments and their foreign exploitation loans tools alias development institutions i.e world bank, IMF etc will have milked the hell outta them:lol::buba_phone::D

Coming to the topic of Vietnam -Japan 'aid', i already pointed on here that, no matter how much people here try to defend this as helping Vietnam, it doesnt at all, it instead does the opposite, i already said trade is the way forward if Japan and the west/U.S really want to help Vietnam, poor south east Asian, South Asian and other poor African countries. Since 'aid' has stunted growth and subsidised bad governance in these countries. Since this abundance of public money has given rise to something of a feeding-frenzy among the specialist consultancies, NGOs and commercial contractors operating in the "humanitarian sector'. If the industrialised nations really want to help the Africans/Vietnamese/south Asian countries and poor developing countries, except for occasional humanitarian emergencies, they would wind-down and terminate aid altogether. Why? Because the countries that have received the most development aid are the ones that are in the worst shape now. Despite the billions that have been poured into Africa/poor South Asian countries like Bengladesh etc, a lot of these countries remain poor, and more people are getting poorer. And as Einstein once said, “insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”.:disagree::lol: The explanation for this paradox is twofold.

Huge bureaucracies are financed with the aid money, voters are disconnected from their politicians, corruption and complacency are promoted and poor underdeveloped countries like Vietnam/Cambodia etc and african countries are taught to be beggars and not to be independent. Additionally, development aid weakens the local markets everywhere and dampens the spirit of entrepreneurship they so desperately need. As absurd as it may sound, development aid is one of the primary reasons for the poorest underdeveloped countries problems. If the West(including its student Japan.:D) were to cancel these payments, most of these countries citizens wouldn't even notice it.:agree: Only the functionaries/officials would feel hard done-by. Which is why they maintain that the world would 'stop turning' without overseas development assistance (ODA) lol more like greedy corrupt thieves as my friend Niceguy says.:lol:

I will like to finish/conclude this with a funny statement(i like them), but true/serious one, This is from the word of the late tyrant president of the Central African Republic, Jean Bedel Bokassa, he cynically summed it up by saying: "The French government pays for everything in our country. We ask the French for money. We get it, and then we waste it.":rofl::lol: Well said man, he summed it all well.:omghaha: Keep the 'aid'/loans coming, we need them :suicide::haha::sarcastic:
 
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I am not the one who derailed the topic first.

Just ask @mike2000 and the Viet members here stop being so obsessed about China.

LOOL Chinese tiger(your picture doesnt look like one though.lol), i am obssesed with China? lool What makes you think that? I was just making some points/observations on here, dont know why you think that way. :disagree:
 
LOOL Chinese tiger(your picture doesnt look like one though.lol), i am obssesed with China? lool What makes you think that? I was just making some points/observations on here, dont know why you think that way. :disagree:

Then why you are spending so much time on the Chinese section? :coffee:
 
The Vietcong doesn't even have 10% of competence comparing to CPC, that's why so many Viet members are disappointed with their incompetence.

CPC is not perfect, but they are still the best form of government that China could have.

If it wasn't CPC, China would definitely remain as an under-developed sh1thole, and no way that you guys in the West would become so obsessed of taking on China.

Dont be so boastful mate, China also has huge corruption issues/problems just like their little brother Vietnam does. In fact both of you look soooo similar to me, i would say you and Vietnam are the closest brother country in Asia, from people to way of thinking to even Vietnam being the only country China actually colonized in Asia to your one party communist mixed capitalistic system which only both of you have in Asia. You might hate each other, but you are indeed very much the same/have too much in common.:lol: Thats something you cant change.:D

China might have grown relatively wealthy recently, which i understand seems to have made you make such statements and belittle vietnam while justifying Japans 'aid' as a benefactor seeking to only 'help' Vietnam and nothing more.what a joke man.:lol:
I didnt expect such words coming from your Chinese brothers, im indeed surprised to see you people make such statemnts. So just because you have grown relatively wealthy compared to Vietnam and other south Asian countries, doesnt mean you have to billitle them/moacked them. for you yourself weren't much different from them less than 2-3 decades ago. So sremain humble(though i know its difficult ot when you become a new rich.lol). Moreover it understandable that when someone gets wealthy, they start getting arrogant,resentful or even racist towards their peers/neighbours. This can be seen in how some hong kongers still hate/throw racist slurs against their own brothers from the mainland(much less those from poorer countries like Vietnam, philippines etc) whom they regard as backward/poor and having bad behaviour/uncivilized.lol Though now they are starting to be angry to see the mainlanders instead getting richer than them.lol:rofl:, same with Singaporeans looking down on Indonesiand ,malaysians etc, Taiwanese looking down on filipinos,etc, South koreans looking down on Chinese, vietnamese, cambodians, etc and Japanese looking down on all Asians :lol:

though things are changing slowly, but they still hold true.:enjoy:
 
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