Vietnam to Get Sub Fleet in 6 Years: State Media

[ChineseTiger1986]

check again bro,what Ka-28 ship-based helicopters means ??


btw: if they don't build it for us, why must we buy that ship ??we rather buy from US than having no use ship, and Russia lose the money.

One LCS from US will cost you more than 1 billion which is half of your entire military expenditure.

 

[NiceGuy]

Yes we are very jealous of the two imported corvettes you have when we produce 8 frigates, and destroyers a year.

But you can not use all of those ships to fight with VN when we can use all to face with China

 

[tanlixiang28776]

But you can not use all of those ship to fight with VN when we can use all to face with China

Let me make this clear to you. What China can produce in half a year is more than Vietnam can buy from Russia in 10. A single type 052C destroyer has more fire power and displacement then your entire modern navy.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

But you can not use all of those ships to fight with VN when we can use all to face with China

Lol, this baby will equip with anti-missile laser and railgun.

 

[ptldM3]

AIP and then pumpjet technology in the Yuan and the Qing would make them far quieter than the Kilo.

LOL. tropical terrain in the sea. where do you come up with this stuff?

Then your SSKs would be fighting SSNs that shadow PLAN ships in the open sea.

I have experience with ships and the shipbuilding industry what you said is vague and jumping to conclusions. There is not one system that guaranties that a submarine will be quieter than its competitors.

Some things to consider when constructing a submarine other than the engine itself:

The propellers-- the propellers are one of the noisiest systems on a submarine The design of the propellers, geometry, number of blades, the size and the RPM at which a propeller spins all has an effect on how much Cavitation or bubbles are produced by the propellers. Some submarines even have tarps cover its propellers when in port so no one can see just how the propellers look due to fear of the technology being copied.


acoustic damping--acoustic damping is a another major design feature and one that Russia has extensive experience in. What it is rubber, polymer or some other classified tile. What these tiles do is absorb sonar and reduce the noise levels emulated from submarines. Some Russian submarines such as the Akula has a noise reduction of up to 20 decibels from these tiles.


absorbers--without absorbers a submarine can never truly be 'stealthy'. Every good submarine will have absorbers, or shock devices to completely eliminate or reduce noise levels from certain systems. For instance, rubber or polymer mounts are sometimes used to cover pipes that pass through bulkheads in order to eliminate the rubbing or vibration due to metal on metal contact. Many other components of a submarine utilize absorbers.


On board plumbing from piping is an important factor in noise reduction. Liquid flowing inside pipes as well as pumps and the mounting systems (absorbers) are all taken into account. The goal here is have silent pumps that allow liquid to flow smoothly with minimal Cavitation. From there absorbers and valves play a critical role.

The hull--everything from the bridge to the to the rudder to the propeller and everything in between can create wakes, disturbances and cavitation. A good hydrodynamic hull will obviously make a submarine quiet. Something interesting to take into account, wakes can alter surface temperature which can be detected.

In short there are hundreds of things that generate noise onboard a submarine, some of these thing are not revealed to the public nor will I list off everything but my point should be clear.

1. The kilos you are getting in 6 years are already inferior to the Yuans China introduced 7 years ago.

Inferior based on what? Virtually everything about submarines are classified, noise levels and combat systems is not something that is revealed to the public.

2. Chinese warships have full compliments of nose, and Towed array sonar along with KA 31, and Z 8 ASW helicopters. All of them are capable of launching rocket propelled torpedos up to 50 kms away.They are also escorted by SSKs, and SSNs. A few Vietnamese kilos without any surface support would be massacred.3.

Wrong, there are submarines that are capable of staying virtually undetected. In fact during naval exercises one side tries to stalk certain vessels while other vessels try their best to locate or even detect the presence of the aggressor submarine, often a submarines design as well as passive systems can make it almost impossible to detect.

The Gepards you have do not have a helicopter bay. Its 1,500 ton displacement also means it carries a tiny sonar nose. It also does not have a towed array radar. A song class SSK of the PLA popped up next to a 100,000 ton aircraft carrier with dozens of AEW helicopters with Burke class destroyers and you expect a corvette to do what they couldn't with a sub thats 2 generations ahead? Your wet dreams are astounding.

No, that is not how it works. I have personally seen a sonar/sonar tube on a vessel that is approximately the size of the Gepard. Sonars are not the size of an automobile and even if they would be most ships have plenty of room in and around where the sonars are housed. For instance, the sonar on the ship I seen was right behind the bulbous bow, just in front of the crash bulkhead. Naturally the sonar tube is located on the lowest part of the ship (the Keel) so there is plenty of vertical room as well as room forward, aft, starboard and port.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

Lol, this baby will equip with anti-missile laser and railgun.

Lets go with current things. shall we. I mean Vietnam will have death stars when they face China in the future.

 

[NiceGuy]

The KA 28 is a ship based helicopter. However the Gepard does not have a hangar which means it can only hold helicopters from larger ships temporarily. Larger ships that Vietnam does not have.

As for US the only class close to Gepard they have is the LCS which costs 700 million domestically and 1 billion for export. Thats more than Vietnam's entire procurement cost per year.

Oki, so temporary hold is ok, Our EEZ is not soo big, no need to hold K-28 for long time, and if it not too hard to build a hangar, so we will build it our self, coz we may build Gepard on our own in the future.

Not a big problem bro

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Oki, so temporary hold is ok, Our EEZ is not soo big, no need to hold K-28 for long time, and if it not too hard to build a hangar, so we will build it our self, coz we may build Gepard on our own in the future.

Not a big problem bro

Nope, you can't even built a thousand tons civilian ship, let alone a thousand tons warship.

 

[NiceGuy]

Lol, this baby will equip with anti-missile laser and railgun.

Lets go with current things. shall we. I mean Vietnam will have death stars when they face China in the future.

So we will use Yakhont ( and hope having Brahmos ) to Deal with this white widow, no chance to run away Madame

Btw:Hehe. Profesor ptldM3 is comming you will have Big trouble with him now

 

[NiceGuy]

Nope, you can't even built a thousand tons civilian ship, let alone a thousand tons warship.

Hehe, we will have License to build her like Molniya, bro. Big boss Russia will instruct us on how to build

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

So we will use Yakhont ( and hope having Brahmos ) to Deal with this white widow, no chance to run away Madame

Btw:Hehe. Profesor ptldM3 is comming you will have Big trouble with him now

Haven't you seen the laser projector in the lower front of the ship bridge?

Your AS missiles would be slow as fck for them to shoot down.

 

[AMCA]

Hehe, we will have License to build her like Molniya, bro. Big boss Russia will instruct us on how to build

Well said mate.. Your military is among few countries who take the numbers no matter how small or large to your advantage. No one has forgotten the bravery of Vietnamese soldiers, Simply Hatsoff...

 

[tanlixiang28776]

I have experience with ships and the shipbuilding industry what you said is vague and jumping to conclusions. There is not one system that guaranties that a submarine will be quieter than its competitors.

I'm not exactly a novice when it comes to submarine design either. My statements are simplified for layman understanding and highlighted very important features in new Diesel electric subs that would make them superior to older ones. Submarine generations are not as easily separated as aircraft but their are distinctions

The propellers-- the propellers are one of the noisiest systems on a submarine The design of the propellers, geometry, number of blades, the size and the RPM at which a propeller spins all has an effect on how much Cavitation or bubbles are produced by the propellers. Some submarines even have tarps cover its propellers when in port so no one can see just how the propellers look due to fear of the technology being copied.

Both the 636s and the original Yuan and even improved Songs use 7 bladed skewed precision milled propellers. Both Russia and China got those tools from Japan. It was originally thought the Yuans would have pumpjets but it seems only the Qings have them.

acoustic damping--acoustic damping is a another major design feature and one that Russia has extensive experience in. What it is rubber, polymer or some other classified tile. What these tiles do is absorb sonar and reduce the noise levels emulated from submarines. Some Russian submarines such as the Akula has a noise reduction of up to 20 decibels from these tiles.

You mean Anechoic tiles. Even the Songs had them and the latest Yuans and Qings most certainly have.

absorbers--without absorbers a submarine can never truly be 'stealthy'. Every good submarine will have absorbers, or shock devices to completely eliminate or reduce noise levels from certain systems. For instance, rubber or polymer mounts are sometimes used to cover pipes that pass through bulkheads in order to eliminate the rubbing or vibration due to metal on metal contact. Many other components of a submarine utilize absorbers.

On board plumbing from piping is an important factor in noise reduction. Liquid flowing inside pipes as well as pumps and the mounting systems (absorbers) are all taken into account. The goal here is have silent pumps that allow liquid to flow smoothly with minimal Cavitation. From there absorbers and valves play a critical role.\

The hull--everything from the bridge to the to the rudder to the propeller and everything in between can create wakes, disturbances and cavitation. A good hydrodynamic hull will obviously make a submarine quiet. Something interesting to take into account, wakes can alter surface temperature which can be detected.

In short there are hundreds of things that generate noise onboard a submarine, some of these thing are not revealed to the public nor will I list off everything but my point should be clear.

Your point is clear but it is also meaningless in a comparison. Both Subs obviously already have those features. The 636s have already been in service in China for 15 years. By the time Vietnam gets them China would be close to retiring them. Chinese leaders are very pragmatic and cautious. If the 636s were superior to the Yuans they would have kept on buying 636s. Even when Chinese equipment was obviously superior as in the case between the 052C and 051C they still bought it just to try out.

Inferior based on what? Virtually everything about submarines are classified, noise levels and combat systems is not something that is revealed to the public.

Based on the technological advancements of the compared submarines. AIP and pumpjets are some of the key features that separate good subs from the superb.

Wrong, there are submarines that are capable of staying virtually undetected. In fact during naval exercises one side tries to stalk certain vessels while other vessels try their best to locate or even detect the presence of the aggressor submarine, often a submarines design as well as passive systems can make it almost impossible to detect.

Virtually and absolutely are two different things. For a country like Vietnam with no experience in Submarines to evade a country with dozens of modern ASW ships and hundreds of ASW helicopters is a very unlikely situation. Not impossible, just virtually impossible.

No, that is not how it works. I have personally seen a sonar/sonar tube on a vessel that is approximately the size of the Gepard. Sonars are not the size of an automobile and even if they would be most ships have plenty of room in and around where the sonars are housed. For instance, the sonar on the ship I seen was right behind the bulbous bow, just in front of the crash bulkhead. Naturally the sonar tube is located on the lowest part of the ship (the Keel) so there is plenty of vertical room as well as room forward, aft, starboard and port.

be that as it may a corvette sized sonar is certainly not as powerful as a destroyer sized one.

PtlDM3. Just because they are Russian things do not mean they are immune to the tests of time. The kilo when it came out was called the blackhole due to its high level of stealth for the time. It has been superseded by designs both in Russia and elsewhere. The Gepard is a Corvette that is mostly for export. Just because it is Russian does not mean it has the same sonar power of destroyers. These are export items and just because they are inferior to Domestic Chinese designs does not mean Russian domestic wares are lacking.

 

[NiceGuy]

Haven't you seen the laser projector in the lower front of the ship bridge?

Your AS missiles would be slow as fck for them to shoot down.

Oh, How power full they're ??can they shoot down Yakhont or Brahmos in low-fly ??

Dont forget that we used Mig-17 to detroy US warship of Seven fleet, if you fight with some funny cannon or some thing similar, you will totaly lose

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Oh, How power full they're ??can they shoot down Yakhont or Brahmos in low-fly ??

Dont forget that we used Mig-17 to detroy US warship of Seven fleet, if you fight with some funny cannon or some thing similar, you will totaly lose

Lol, don't tell me you guys have destroyed the Arleigh Burke destroyer.