Vietnam ordered stealth destroyers P28 of India

[topgun047]

Vietnam should brought under Indian nuclear umbrella much like the arrangment between US and Soko-Japan.

That should be the medium term objective of Indian policymakers.

 

[Penguin]

Brahmos-M (I think its called NG now) would be very useful for the Vietnamese air force, carrying 3 of them in a SU-30MK2 would be great.

Su-30MK2 can already carry something similar: Kh-31 (mini-moskit)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kh-31

 

[Jamwal's]

Viet military delegation India

 

[Carlosa]

Su-30MK2 can already carry something similar: Kh-31 (mini-moskit)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kh-31

Not quite as good as Brahmos, but it will have to do for now.

 

[BoQ77]

There're news that Vietnam show their interested in buying 6 of P-28, and other news for Brahmos few years ago.
They both could be true.
P-28 and Brahmos.

Instead of ASW role which Vietnam assigned to 2x building Gepard-class frigates, P-28 could really be the first mini-destroyer of Vietnam with Brahmos, Barak-8, and Israeli radar ( also a familiar supplier of radar to Vietnam )

It's very possible, no big problem.

That could be the reason for Vietnam to cancel the Sigma-class deal.

And maybe Vietnam could build a few of stretched P-28 in Vietnam shipyards too.

This is what was planned to build in Vietnam under the name DN-4000 ( 4000 ton ) for Vietnam Coastguard

Is there any chance that it's a stretch variant of a mini destroyer under trial production?
CG of P-28

 

[Carlosa]

There're news that Vietnam show their interested in buying 6 of P-28, and other news for Brahmos few years ago.
They both could be true.
P-28 and Brahmos.

Instead of ASW role which Vietnam assigned to 2x building Gepard-class frigates, P-28 could really be the first mini-destroyer of Vietnam with Brahmos, Barak-8, and Israeli radar ( also a familiar supplier of radar to Vietnam )

It's very possible, no big problem.

That could be the reason for Vietnam to cancel the Sigma-class deal.

And maybe Vietnam could build a few of stretched P-28 in Vietnam shipyards too.

This is what was planned to build in Vietnam under the name DN-4000 ( 4000 ton ) for Vietnam Coastguard

Is there any chance that it's a stretch variant of a mini destroyer under trial production?
CG of P-28

Yes, as I said at the beginning of the thread, the news about the 6 Kamorta class ships came out on May 2012 and it was because a "source" reported that to comcom and I was told that it was a leak from the higher ups in the Vietnamese navy, but after that, nothing ever again until this article came out. Who is the source for the article? Don't know. Always like this..........

Is there any chance that it's a stretch variant of a mini destroyer under trial production?
CG of P-28

It could be, a stretched variant of a P28 could have extra UKSK VLS for Brahmos. That's actually what I hope for.

 

[Viet]

Anyone has the idea how much a destroyer is going to cost?

 

[Carlosa]

Anyone has the idea how much a destroyer is going to cost?

When these news came out in 2012, the Kamorta ships were something like 450 million each or so, I don't know if that includes the development cost. The weapon systems that India use in their ships don't include any anti ship missiles or air defense missiles, so the version for Vietnam will be quite different.

 

[Carlosa]

There're news that Vietnam show their interested in buying 6 of P-28, and other news for Brahmos few years ago.
They both could be true.
P-28 and Brahmos.

Instead of ASW role which Vietnam assigned to 2x building Gepard-class frigates, P-28 could really be the first mini-destroyer of Vietnam with Brahmos, Barak-8, and Israeli radar ( also a familiar supplier of radar to Vietnam )

It's very possible, no big problem.

That could be the reason for Vietnam to cancel the Sigma-class deal.

And maybe Vietnam could build a few of stretched P-28 in Vietnam shipyards too.

This is what was planned to build in Vietnam under the name DN-4000 ( 4000 ton ) for Vietnam Coastguard

Is there any chance that it's a stretch variant of a mini destroyer under trial production?
CG of P-28

The P28 in that configuration is also much better than the Gepards. In my opinion Vietnam have been going in the wrong direction when it comes to surface ships, buying ships like the Gepard or the intended Sigma, which are really not designed to survive a war with China. I think they are a waste of money. Better to spend the money for the coast guard or for aircraft.

The P28 in that configuration would be the first ship that can really fight in a conflict with China and have a decent chance.

The Molniya ships being designed for hit and run strikes are ok, but they are a 40 year old design (The ships themselves, not the weapon systems), so its a bit disappointing that when everybody is getting stealth ships, Vietnam gets a 40 year old design. Not happy about that. The Kilos are the only good purchase so far by the navy.

 

[BoQ77]

The P28 in that configuration is also much better than the Gepards. In my opinion Vietnam have been going in the wrong direction when it comes to surface ships, buying ships like the Gepard or the intended Sigma, which are really not designed to survive a war with China. I think they are a waste of money. Better to spend the money for the coast guard or for aircraft.

The P28 in that configuration would be the first ship that can really fight in a conflict with China and have a decent chance.

The Molniya ships being designed for hit and run strikes are ok, but they are a 40 year old design (The ships themselves, not the weapon systems), so its a bit disappointing that when everybody is getting stealth ships, Vietnam gets a 40 year old design. Not happy about that. The Kilos are the only good purchase so far by the navy.

Think about Molniya as the Bal-E ER coastal defense system if you find the tactic, 2x built at the same time for each system. Two separated radars made a bistatic. They are chosen because the cost.

 

[Carlosa]

Think about Molniya as the Bal-E ER coastal defense system if you find the tactic, 2x built at the same time for each system. Two separated radars made a bistatic. They are chosen because the cost.

Yes, that's a good way to see it.

Have you heard anything about any new ship on development? I've been hearing rumors for years that there is a ship bigger than the TT-400 under development, maybe around 1000 tons, but nothing ever comes out.

 

[BoQ77]

It's very logical to expect that at this time. Recent years the shipyards operated at full performance for at least 10 Tt400 for VCG, 8Tt400 Tp for navy, 8 dn2000 , oil tanker for white fleet, and renew some ships donated by Japan and US with displacement around 1000-1400 t.

Not sure why KN381, 382.. must change to KN290, 390, 490 recently. But this year, they are main ships to bring the visitors to Spratly islands , such as 490 during April, last year that is hospital ship.

So are you expecting a serie of 1000 ton will come out next few years? The main points are what type of missiles and radars they would be armed which depend too much on the fully lift of arm ban that heard to be declared during the visit of President Obama this May.
just for fun, but why not expect on the SM-6 that could be used as antiship and SAM? and later F35 to guide them onto the targets?

 

[Carlosa]

It's very logical to expect that at this time. Recent years the shipyards operated at full performance for at least 10 Tt400 for VCG, 8Tt400 Tp for navy, 8 dn2000 , oil tanker for white fleet, and renew some ships donated by Japan and US with displacement around 1000-1400 t.

Not sure why KN381, 382.. must change to KN290, 390, 490 recently. But this year, they are main ships to bring the visitors to Spratly islands , such as 490 during April, last year that is hospital ship.

So are you expecting a serie of 1000 ton will come out next few years? The main points are what type of missiles and radars they would be armed which depend too much on the fully lift of arm ban that heard to be declared during the visit of President Obama this May.
just for fun, but why not expect on the SM-6 that could be used as antiship and SAM? and later F35 to guide them onto the targets?

The reasons why I was expecting such a ship is because I've heard rumors from different sources, that's all. In terms of what type of ship, well, it would be good for littoral ASW, VN needs something like that, a cheap platform optimized for ASW with minimum anti ship / air defense systems (kind of like 8 KH-35 and some Igla or better). 700 to 1000 tons.

 

[MKC]

When these news came out in 2012, the Kamorta ships were something like 450 million each or so, I don't know if that includes the development cost. The weapon systems that India use in their ships don't include any anti ship missiles or air defense missiles, so the version for Vietnam will be quite different.

I think you are giving too much wrong info.
Shivalik-class frigates cost much less than what you are quoting, may be about $340 million according to The Telegraph but inflation plays a bigger role.

Kamorta-class corvettes project, driven by the Navy's Directorate of Indigenisation, has been delayed by two years with a cost overrun from the originally estimated ₹28 billion (US$416 million) to ₹70 billion (US$1 billion), primarily to meet this goal.
So, it's about $250 million per ship today, I think that include developmental costs as recently GRSE has offered almost same ships to Philippines in less than $180 million with sensors without some weapons.

 

[BoQ77]

Good point. Even the Kilos that VN is getting could have an upgrade stretching the hull in order to add the AIP system. Subs need to have a mid life upgrade in order to overhaul the hull due to metal fatigue, so that would be a good opportunity to add the AIP.
It seems like the next VN purchase of subs will be from Italy (S-1000) or the new Swedish type 26, but nothing is confirmed yet.
Subs my man, subs. Considering where technology is today, only subs can hide. As submariners like to say: there are subs and everything else are just targets.....

There's not only Damen but also VARD ( a Fincantieri company ) shipyard in Vietnam ( Vung Tau ).
S-1000 or any surface combatants humors may come from the fact that VARD worked well in Vietnam.