Vietnam Defence Forum

[TenLua]

yes if we can buy the ship design from the bear, then adding components we need


do you think I don´t know it. Lol. only delusional Chinese triad boys want to extort money from our people in Cali. that is a one-way street for them. because they don´t return home without getting a bunch into their stomach. but the situation in VN is much more difficult. it is grim. the Chinese are more populous and have bigger guns.

Nothing a thousand mini-sub cannot handle. Pipe dream, but probable.

 

[hoangsa74]

First of all, you only have 1 Palma at the front of the ship, it can't cover the back. It needs direct line of sight to guide missiles to target.

Second is the limited range of 8-10 km, too little. Little reaction time to intercept supersonic missiles.

Third, the missiles are guided by laser which means that in cases of heavy fog, rain, etc, its unreliable.

Fourth, it can only intercept missiles flying up to mach 1.5 speed, how about if it has to intercept faster chinese missiles? Bye bye Gepard in that case.

Fifth, it can only intercept 1 missile at the time, but these days its typical to launch a number of missiles against the ship.

You still think its good?

Stop beating the dead horse. The gepard is a floating coffin.

 

[Silent Knight]

First of all, you only have 1 Palma at the front of the ship, it can't cover the back. It needs direct line of sight to guide missiles to target.

Second is the limited range of 8-10 km, too little. Little reaction time to intercept supersonic missiles.

Third, the missiles are guided by laser which means that in cases of heavy fog, rain, etc, its unreliable.

Fourth, it can only intercept missiles flying up to mach 1.5 speed, how about if it has to intercept faster chinese missiles? Bye bye Gepard in that case.

Fifth, it can only intercept 1 missile at the time, but these days its typical to launch a number of missiles against the ship.

You still think its good?

The Gepards rely on a triangle CIWS = one Palma in the front and two AK-630M in the rear, along with the AK-176M. Theoretically it can cover at least 180 degrees on any side at any given time. The limit factor is fire control radar as it can only control 2 gun systems at any given time (two AK-630M or AK-630M/AK-176M).

The CIWS is hardkill defense system. Every ships have their EW and decoy systems too.

If you do want bigger and longer range ADS, you need bigger ship in the range of 3000-4000 tons displacement. If you have only the 2100 tons Gepard, you have to take some compromises.

 

[Carlosa]

The Gepards rely on a triangle CIWS = one Palma in the front and two AK-630M in the rear, along with the AK-176M. Theoretically it can cover at least 180 degrees on any side at any given time. The limit factor is fire control radar as it can only control 2 gun systems at any given time (two AK-630M or AK-630M/AK-176M).

The CIWS is hardkill defense system. Every ships have their EW and decoy systems too.

If you do want bigger and longer range ADS, you need bigger ship in the range of 3000-4000 tons displacement. If you have only the 2100 tons Gepard, you have to take some compromises.

Well, the SIGMA is in the same category, but having 12 MICA missiles that can defend the ship in a 360 degree circumference, that's already much better (it can carry up to 18 MICA missiles). The Gepard is too weak in air defense.

One example, the Israeli Saar 5 corvette, 1100 tons, has 16 Barak 8 missiles and MF/Star radar system.

 

[Viet]

Well, the SIGMA is in the same category, but having 12 MICA missiles that can defend the ship in a 360 degree circumference, that's already much better (it can carry up to 16 MICA missiles). The Gepard is too weak in air defense.

One example, the Israeli Saar 5 corvette, 1100 tons, has 16 Barak 8 missiles and MF/Star radar system.

View attachment 332520 View attachment 332521 View attachment 332522 View attachment 332523

Sipri reports Vietnam has acquired 40 Mica missiles for the future Sigma warships. each ship will carry 12 missiles.

 

[Farhan Bohra]

Well, the SIGMA is in the same category, but having 12 MICA missiles that can defend the ship in a 360 degree circumference, that's already much better (it can carry up to 16 MICA missiles). The Gepard is too weak in air defense.

One example, the Israeli Saar 5 corvette, 1100 tons, has 16 Barak 8 missiles and MF/Star radar system.

View attachment 332520 View attachment 332521 View attachment 332522 View attachment 332523

I actually say it would be better if Vietnam bought Saar 5, that increased the Vietnam's capabilities by many folds. But Gepard cant do a thing, even I cant say Gepard as some modern frigate or corvette.

 

[Viet]

as the Navy has acquired 40 Mica, let see how the missiles will be installed in bigger version of Sigma. 16, 32 instead of 12 missiles?

 

[Carlosa]

as the Navy has acquired 40 Mica, let see how the missiles will be installed in bigger version of Sigma. 16, 32 instead of 12 missiles?

As far as I know, the MICA capability is the same in the Sigma 9814 or 10514, 12 missiles as standard configuration, but can add another row of 6 if the customer wants.

Sorry, I made a mistake before when I said 16, its 18, 6 missiles per row.
2 rows as standard configuration and there is space for a third row.

I actually say it would be better if Vietnam bought Saar 5, that increased the Vietnam's capabilities by many folds. But Gepard cant do a thing, even I cant say Gepard as some modern frigate or corvette.

And lets not even talk about the Saar 6 that its being built now in Germany for Israel.

The Gepard versions that Vietnam bought are extremely limited, they are ok to patrol during peacetime and show the flag, but not much more. During a conflict, they can only operate in a sanctuary type of area, depending on other assets for protection as Silent Knight said. I think there are much better options for the money and the Israelis have shown that.

as the Navy has acquired 40 Mica, let see how the missiles will be installed in bigger version of Sigma. 16, 32 instead of 12 missiles?

Integrating the MICA into the Gepard and placing the MICA VLS where the Palma is, that would already be a good improvement.

Better yet, can also integrate Barak 8 as the Israelis did and I'm sure they could easily develop a naval version of the Spyder if a customer wants, that would be very nice for Vietnam since they are already using the missiles and its a lot cheaper than MICA.

 

[Farhan Bohra]

As far as I know, the MICA capability is the same in the Sigma 9814 or 10514, 12 missiles as standard configuration, but can add another row of 6 if the customer wants.

Sorry, I made a mistake before when I said 16, its 18, 6 missiles per row.
2 rows as standard configuration and there is space for a third row.



And lets not even talk about the Saar 6 that its being built now in Germany for Israel.

The Gepard versions that Vietnam bought are extremely limited, they are ok to patrol during peacetime and show the flag, but not much more. During a conflict, they can only operate in a sanctuary type of area, depending on other assets for protection as Silent Knight said. I think there are much better options for the money and the Israelis have shown that.



Integrating the MICA into the Gepard and placing the MICA VLS where the Palma is, that would already be a good improvement.

Yeah, then why such love with Netherlands or Russia? Why not Germany?

The Sa'ar 6 has a displacement of 2,000 tons and is 90 m (300 ft) long. It is armed with an Oto Melara 76 mm main gun, two Typhoon Weapon Stations, 32 vertical launch cells for Barak-8 surface-to-air missiles, the C-Dome point defense system, 16 anti-ship missiles, the EL/M-2248 MF-STAR AESA radar, and two 324 mm torpedo launchers. It has hangar space and a platform able to accommodate a medium class SH-60-type helicopter.

What ever Netherlands do, I am damn sure they cant match German industrial and R&D capabilities.

 

[Carlosa]

Yeah, then why such love with Netherlands or Russia? Why not Germany?



What ever Netherlands do, I am damn sure they cant match German industrial and R&D capabilities.

The Netherlands have a long term relationship with Vietnam in many areas, they are ahead of all European countries in that regard, so they are in the pole position so to speak.

The Israelis designed the Saar 6 and they gave it to Germany to build it. I think Vietnam needs to deepen the relationship with Israel, they have the goodies.

 

[Viet]

First of all, you only have 1 Palma at the front of the ship, it can't cover the back. It needs direct line of sight to guide missiles to target.

Second is the limited range of 8-10 km, too little. Little reaction time to intercept supersonic missiles.

Third, the missiles are guided by laser which means that in cases of heavy fog, rain, etc, its unreliable.

Fourth, it can only intercept missiles flying up to mach 1.5 speed, how about if it has to intercept faster chinese missiles? Bye bye Gepard in that case.

Fifth, it can only intercept 1 missile at the time, but these days its typical to launch a number of missiles against the ship.

You still think its good?

Ok I see it. How about installing one or two Gatling guns on the Molynia and Gepard to increase air defense?

Vietnam made 6 barrels Gatling gun

What we need is to develop a radar fire control system for the highspeed cannon as seen on US warships.

 

[Viet]

Mounting artillery on trucks

The next challenge: how to mount heavy artillery as 130mm or 152mm on trucks?

 

[TenLua]

Ok I see it. How about installing one or two Gatling guns on the Molynia and Gepard to increase air defense?

Vietnam made 6 barrels Gatling gun

What we need is to develop a radar fire control system for the highspeed cannon as seen on US warships.

Do you have the spec on that Gatling? What's the rounds per minute? Range? Caliber?

 

[TenLua]

Mounting artillery on trucks

The next challenge: how to mount heavy artillery as 130mm or 152mm on trucks?

I believe the correct designation for mobile artillery is "self-propelled artillery."

 

[Viet]

Do you have the spec on that Gatling? What's the rounds per minute? Range? Caliber?

It is modeled after Russia made Ak630M CIWS. Caliber 30mm, 5,000-10,000 rounds a minute, range 5,000m.