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he view from the back of that p.o.s you guys claim to be a HALE UAV is even worse than even the frontal previous pic in the video. Damn, that thing is definitely an rc toy, scooter boy. That thing is not 72 feet in wingspan, scooter boy; it is at best 15 feet with one feet per brick. That thing is so tiny and weak; how dare you third-world scooters even compare it to something like the Reaper? What a JOKE. Damn, I have seen students over here build better planes than that p.o.s your scooter phd, scientists, and engineers put together. That thing is so weak, just look at its pathetic landing gears and wings. Those wings will break apart the moment you put it to test in the wind tunnel. Oops, you scooter boy don't have wind tunnel yet, lol. Please, don't even bother mentioning your previous rc toys (that you guys claim to be UAV); you will make the rest of PDFers laugh.

At the end of the day, I drive around in a car, hold U.S Passport, have medical insurance coverage, live in a house, have money to screw beautiful women if I want to. You otoh, hop around miserably in a scooter and sweat all day, hold shitnam passport that got denied visa entry by every country, no medical insurance coverage, live in a mud hut or tube house, have no disposable income to shop for anything including women. I enjoy wayyyyyyyyy higher living standard than you third-world scooter boy and that's all it matters.

Well i hope you contract STDs soon or got shot in the head while enjoying precious US cum :v Have fun, dip shit. Talking with people that cant understand human logic make my IQ drop a lot. At the end of the day i remember how you and your ancestor got a US passport is all its matter to me, wealth can be gain but dignity ? Yeah sorry if i rather keep a face instead of being kicked in the face by American while begging them to provide me some pension . Pff sitting behind a keyboard and pretend that you know it all ? Student ? Have you even visit a UAV manufacturing companies ? Oh wait YOU DONT. Have you present at the testing of any UAV ? oh wait YOU DONT. Break ? How do you know it will break ? Because it slim ? You know aerodynamic well ? You know UAV material ? You have comparable knowledge to Belgian and Sweden contractors that are on the development team ? oh wait YOU DONT. You DONT know crap about anything. Do i have have to remind you how stupid you sound about the Thailand Armed Force ? You got BACK FLASHED in the face by everyone here. "You will make the rest of PDFers laugh" . Yeah people WILL laugh at an animal on a leash that criticize human just because it can be fed better. So long sucker, talking with you really waste my brain energy, especially with a US ShameCum
 
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That design is not new design, but only upgradation of P-17. And that design directly coming from NDB aka Naval Design Beureu.

Obviously that going to cost more, even a single BrahMos cost 5 times more than normal AShM, and that meant to deploy both BrahMos and Nirbhay.

Even the MF-STAR almost cost triple than european counterpart. Why? You know the reason why? BTW, bigger MF-STAR for Destroyer and Frigate was specifically designed for India, and no one know actual details. What you reading is open source details.

And lastly, obviously the cost is more.

When Indian Navy want to deploy 8 BrahMos+ 8 Nirbhay + 48 Barak-8 ER + 2 RBU-6000 and then Laser based CIWS during first SLEP with only crew of 150. Obviously that going to cost more.

But I was not saying GRSE present same version of Indian Navy. Indian Navy never share its CMS, Command and Control structure, communication etc with anyone else.

GRSE do the same with P-17 A, what they done with Kamotra. They contact DCNS for Vietnamese version of P-17 A.

And without Indian Navy's sensor and weapon packages, without IEP etc etc. The ship not even going to cost half its current price.
That's why I'm concern about the P-17A proposition. Unless India comes up with at least 5-6 P-17A frigates in the next 10 years, along with options for foreign export, I don't see much chance for this design.
 
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That's why I'm concern about the P-17A proposition. Unless India comes up with at least 5-6 P-17A frigates in the next 10 years, along with options for foreign export, I don't see much chance for this design.
The order is already given of 7 P-17 A to GRSE and MDL. And first keel will be laid by Jan 2017, with rollout of first ship by 2022.


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...worth-Rs-13000-crore/articleshow/51367348.cms

Finally, let me give you brief overview of current situation. The today's world is of situation awareness,not only tactical but also strategical.

I dont know why you struck with FREMM, while totally missing Global Combat Ship from picture? Which country can provide situation awareness picture to Vietnam? Who is even deploying "Fish Hook"? Who can provide data fusion from "Fish Hook"? Who deploying geo-spatial, SAR or panchromatic sats over this region? Who capable to fly HALE UAVs over this region? Definitely not France or netherlands or Italy.

Tier-1 is only US, there reach of situation awareness is global and employ the cooperative engagement capability (CEC) using sensor-fusion techniques that enable the AEGIS to receive synthesised 3-D battlespace situational awareness inputs in real-time from a wide variety of terrestrial, airborne & space-borne sensors. In addition, the AEGIS can be supplied with 3-D geo-spatial data reqd for targetting inputs for long-range T-LAMs from the global geo-spatial database maintained by the US Navy. The only close to this AEGIS in our region is Japan, China and India.

Only three party exist in this region ,,, Japan, China and India that use situation awareness on strategical level.
I dont know, if Vietnam seriously want a high tech frigate with AEGIS like capabilities, why not it approached UK or Japan or even India.
 
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That design is not new design, but only upgradation of P-17. And that design directly coming from NDB aka Naval Design Beureu.

Obviously that going to cost more, even a single BrahMos cost 5 times more than normal AShM, and that meant to deploy both BrahMos and Nirbhay.

Even the MF-STAR almost cost triple than european counterpart. Why? You know the reason why? BTW, bigger MF-STAR for Destroyer and Frigate was specifically designed for India, and no one know actual details. What you reading is open source details.

And lastly, obviously the cost is more.

When Indian Navy want to deploy 8 BrahMos+ 8 Nirbhay + 48 Barak-8 ER + 2 RBU-6000 and then Laser based CIWS during first SLEP with only crew of 150. Obviously that going to cost more.

But I was not saying GRSE present same version of Indian Navy. Indian Navy never share its CMS, Command and Control structure, communication etc with anyone else.

GRSE do the same with P-17 A, what they done with Kamotra. They contact DCNS for Vietnamese version of P-17 A.

And without Indian Navy's sensor and weapon packages, without IEP etc etc. The ship not even going to cost half its current price.
the most obstacle is the cost as Silent Knight points out too. any warship that costs more than $1 billion is too much for us to afford, maybe in 10 years, but not now, given our economic situation. we don´t want to go bankrupt now, it is a long running game. I estimate we need at least 3 ships. ideally 6. so we could allocate 2 destroyers to one fleet. infrastructures serving destroyer fleet would add into the cost calculation. similar to hosting the Kilo submarine fleet.

I would expect India made weapons and ships would cost less?
 
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the most obstacle is the cost as Silent Knight points out too. any warship that costs more than $1 billion is too much for us to afford, maybe in 10 years, but not now, given our economic situation. we don´t want to go bankrupt now, it is a long running game. I estimate we need at least 3 ships. ideally 6. so we could allocate 2 destroyers to one fleet. infrastructures serving destroyer fleet would add into the cost calculation. similar to hosting the Kilo submarine fleet.

I would expect India made weapons and ships would cost less?

Not for Vizag Class, P-17 A or Global Combat Ship like projects.

Which need to deploy ASW aircrafts in large number, then spy and military communication sats, then HALE and MALE UAVs, then a central command and control structure, then 3D geo-spatial data from satellites , then data from SOSUS ,,data fusion etc etc. And all in real time.
And then in P-17 A the weapon system are pretty costly, especially BrahMos.

I was thinking for Vietnam these are must. In todays world,intelligence and information is key to win the war. And thats why these types of ship cost more.

A single Global Combat Ship going to cost £859 bn.

Also, Obviously if Vietnam buy a ship like that, then it also buying data from these systems also. If P-17A become a FREMM, then it become another Kamotra or P-17. And Kamotra cost around $200-$300 mn and P-17 at $600 mn, less costly than FREMM. And even then P-17 surpass FREMM in ASW capabilities and engaging enemy ships.
 
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that tells u the u.s trust the bloody arab terrorists than trusting a swinger like vietnam who can give away u.s tech to china n russia for inspection. Vn has no one to blame except itself for not having a firm stand International politics
What would you do if a guy puts a gun on your head?

Do you know this smiling man on the left of the picture?

he is the Chinese Ambassador to Vietnam, Hong Xiaoyong. he is one of the most frequent guests seen in Vietnam´s Army Headquarters, Presidential Palace and the Communist Party Office. Every time before a major event occurs, he is on the scene. Smiling. Be it, before the visit of Barack Obama and Nadrenda Modi to Vietnam, be it before the PCA court issuing a verdict in the Philippine case. I don´t surprise if he puts a loaded gun on the table when talking to the vietnamese. Do you think Vietnam can act what she likes, allying with this and that partner? Chinese have little humour you should know.


48072e78-1e9a-11e6-9777-749fedcc73f5_image_hires.jpg
 
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Notice to all,

Please keep your discussions polite and respectful towards each other.

You can agree to disagree and move on.
 
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Undersea Web

A web of strategic projects is now taking shape as India’s Prime Minister Narendra Modi enters into closer relationships with Japan, Australia and the United States, as well as regional powers like Vietnam, Singapore and Malaysia. Matters began taking on urgency in late September 2014, after US President Barack Obama and PM Modi pledged to intensify cooperation in maritime security.

Following this, on 16 March 2015, the defence ministers of the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) at the end of the two-day 9th ASEAN Defence Ministers’ Meeting in Langkawi, Malaysia, collectively stated that they wanted India to play a far bigger role in both the Indian Ocean Region (IOR) and the South China Sea.

In the near future, therefore, under the auspices of the US-India Defence Framework Agreement, foundational pacts like the Logistics Support Agreement (LSA), Communication Interoperability and Security Memorandum Agreement (CISMOA), and Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement for Geo-Spatial Cooperation (BECA), will be inked by the two countries.

Concurrently, Japan will extend funding from the Japan International Cooperation Agency for the upgradation of naval air bases and construction of new ELINT/SIGINT stations along the Andaman and Nicobar chain of islands, which is made up of 572 islands (of which only 34 are presently inhabited), stretching around 470 miles north to south. But most importantly, preliminary planning has commenced on a Japan-financed project that calls for 1) laying of an undersea optical fibre cable from Chennai to Port Blair; and 2) the construction of an undersea network of seabed sonar sensors stretching from the tip of Sumatra right up to Indira Point. Once completed, this network will be an integral part of the existing US-Japan ‘Fish Hook’ sound surveillance SOSUS network.

The US was always interested in Japanese and Indian locations for its SOSUS stations. Initially called Project Caesar, this involved running cables out on continental shelves and connecting them to hydrophones suspended above the sea bottom at optimum signal depths. An ‘experimental station’ was established at the north-western tip of Hokkaido in 1957, with the cable extending into the Soya (La Perouse) Strait. It monitored all Soviet submarine traffic going in and out of Vladivostok and Nakhodka in the Sea of Japan.

Undersea surveillance systems and associated shore-based data collection stations code-named Barrier and Bronco were installed in Japan in the Sixties. Acoustic data collected at these sites was transmitted by US defence communications satellites to US Navy (USN) processing and analysis centres in the US. In the Seventies, a network between Japan and the Korean peninsula was commissioned. By 1980, three stations at Wakkanai (designated JAP-4), Tsushima (JAP-108) and the Ryukyu Islands (RYU-80) were operational in Japan, along with earlier stations built in the Tsushima Straits and the Okinawa area. The existence of old cables at Horonai Point in north-west Honshu, which during the Cold War led out to SOSUS arrays in the Sea of Japan, has been widely described by scuba divers.

By the mid-Eighties the SOSUS hydrophone arrays stretched from southern Japan to the Philippines, covering the approaches to China. After the collapse of the USSR and the decline of the submarine threat to the US in the early Nineties, the USN allowed its SOSUS systems in the north-west Pacific to atrophy, although some arrays were retained in working order so as to support civilian scientific research (such as tracking whales and monitoring undersea volcanic activity). According to a USN directive issued in August 1994, all fixed arrays in the Pacific were placed on ‘hot standby’; personnel would ‘not be routinely assigned to monitor fixed-array data’ unless that data was required for operational purposes, but in practice the probability of being able to reconstitute them to full operational status was ‘extremely low’.

However, in the early 2000s, facing an increasing PLA Navy (PLAN) submarine force and more aggressive PLAN submarine patrols, the USN decided that it needed a new chain of fixed arrays designed primarily to monitor the movement of PLAN submarines between the East China Sea and South China Sea on the one hand, and between the Pacific Ocean and the Indian Ocean on the other hand. Thus was born the US-Japan ‘Fish Hook Undersea Defense Line’ in early 2005, stretching from Japan southwards to Southeast Asia, with key nodes at Okinawa, Guam and Taiwan.

Beginning from near Kagoshima in the south-west part of Kyushu, it runs down the Osumi archipelago to Okinawa, then to Miyako-jima and Yonaguni in the southern part of the Ryukyu Islands, past Taiwan to the Balabac Islands in the Philippines, to Lomkok in the eastern part of the Indonesian archipelago, across the Sunda Strait between Java and Sumatra, and from northern Sumatra to the Andaman and Nicobar Islands. Three major gaps — between Yonaguni and Suao in north-east Taiwan (120km), between Kaohsiung in south-western Taiwan and the Dongsha (Pratas) Islands (450km) where the East China Sea meets the South China Sea, and across the Bashi Channel (220km) between Hengchun at Taiwan’s southernmost tip and Luzon Island in the Philippines — were plugged.

In addition, the USN installed a new SOSUS network, stretching from Sasebo down to Okinawa, in 2006, when the US cable-laying ship USNS Zeus operated together with oceanographic survey vessels and nuclear submarines in this area. In July 2013, Beijing claimed that the US and Japan had jointly established ‘very large underwater monitoring systems’ at the northern and southern ends of Taiwan. One of these stretched from Yonaguni to the Senkaku Islands (about 150km), while the other covered the Bashi Channel down to The Philippines. In addition, large numbers of hydrophones had been installed ‘in Chinese waters’ close to China’s submarine bases in Qingdao, Xiaopingdao, and Yulin on Hainan Island.

http://www.forceindia.net/Defexpo2016Day2_UnderseaWeb.aspx
 
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The order is already given of 7 P-17 A to GRSE and MDL. And first keel will be laid by Jan 2017, with rollout of first ship by 2022.


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...worth-Rs-13000-crore/articleshow/51367348.cms

Finally, let me give you brief overview of current situation. The today's world is of situation awareness,not only tactical but also strategical.

I dont know why you struck with FREMM, while totally missing Global Combat Ship from picture? Which country can provide situation awareness picture to Vietnam? Who is even deploying "Fish Hook"? Who can provide data fusion from "Fish Hook"? Who deploying geo-spatial, SAR or panchromatic sats over this region? Who capable to fly HALE UAVs over this region? Definitely not France or netherlands or Italy.

Tier-1 is only US, there reach of situation awareness is global and employ the cooperative engagement capability (CEC) using sensor-fusion techniques that enable the AEGIS to receive synthesised 3-D battlespace situational awareness inputs in real-time from a wide variety of terrestrial, airborne & space-borne sensors. In addition, the AEGIS can be supplied with 3-D geo-spatial data reqd for targetting inputs for long-range T-LAMs from the global geo-spatial database maintained by the US Navy. The only close to this AEGIS in our region is Japan, China and India.

Only three party exist in this region ,,, Japan, China and India that use situation awareness on strategical level.
I dont know, if Vietnam seriously want a high tech frigate with AEGIS like capabilities, why not it approached UK or Japan or even India.
Baby steps, not giant leap, my friend, that's why.

We start with small missile boats (Project 1241.8 Molniya) then light frigate (Gepard 3.9) and SIGMA 10514. Only after these step should we move to bigger ships with 3000-4000 tons displacement.

The FREMM or P-17A or whatever 7000+ ton class frigate/destroyer would be in the long run, like 15-20 years. The C4ISR network is being built, we simply don't have the capability and infrastructure to operate complex systems like your Global Combat Ship or Aegis-like stuff at the moment.

Also, how's the probability of technology transfer in case that we choose the P-17A or GCS? How much would you be eager to share?
 
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At the end of the day, I drive around in a car, hold U.S Passport, have medical insurance coverage, live in a house, have money to screw beautiful women if I want to. You otoh, hop around miserably in a scooter and sweat all day, hold shitnam passport that got denied visa entry by every country, no medical insurance coverage, live in a mud hut or tube house, have no disposable income to shop for anything including women. I enjoy wayyyyyyyyy higher living standard than you third-world scooter boy and that's all it matters.

And how much is your car payment for the car man? Unlike Vietnam, nearly all car purchases in USA are on credit. You guys live on credit and then later end up on bankruptcy. How much credit card debt do you have? (Average household credit card debt in 2015 is $15,319 and total average household debt is $132,000, like I said, you people live on credit). How about your mortgage payment. You see, in Vietnam, people actually own (fully paid) what they have, unlike in USA.

How much you pay for car insurance man? $1500-2000 a year? That's many times more than in Vietnam. And you probably pray that the police or the highway patrol doesn't find you speeding or your car insurance will skyrocket. You people live in financial fear all the time. Vietnam on the other hand was declared one of the happiest people on the planet a few weeks ago. I think there is something wrong with your picture man.

Actually Vietnamese have way better health coverage than Americans. In USA everybody worries about having good health insurance and for the many millions that don't have it or have substandard health insurance they pray that they don't get sick, because getting sick in good old United States of America (unlike Europe) can send you to the poorhouse. Most Americans that have good health insurance still worry about the deductibles and the 20% copayment. Wow, great standard of living man. How long is the maternity leave in America? Zero days, only developed country that doesn't have it, but is 6 months in Vietnam. And if you are self employed and you have to pay your own health insurance, how much is that man? Lets see, the cheapest type like an HMO like Kaiser is about $1500-2000 a MONTH for a family of 4 right? Wow, those self employed people better be making a lot of money.

You can try to fool the people here that know nothing about USA, but not me kid, I lived there 25 years and I'm way happier living in Vietnam and enjoying it here and by the way, the middle / upper class in Vietnam is already 17 million people and projected to be 33 million in just 2020 while the middle class in USA is shrinking and poverty is up while poverty in Vietnam is way down.

For your information, there are a lot of people with a lot of money in Vietnam and if you spend some time here, you'll easily see it. How many millions are on welfare in USA man? Many !!!

Baby steps, not giant leap, my friend, that's why.

We start with small missile boats (Project 1241.8 Molniya) then light frigate (Gepard 3.9) and SIGMA 10514. Only after these step should we move to bigger ships with 3000-4000 tons displacement.

The FREMM or P-17A or whatever 7000+ ton class frigate/destroyer would be in the long run, like 15-20 years. The C4ISR network is being built, we simply don't have the capability and infrastructure to operate complex systems like your Global Combat Ship or Aegis-like stuff at the moment.

Thats also what I thought, that's why I was asking @William Hung what were the reasons for the FREMM because based on everything that I know, a large ship of that class was not in the plans and is not affordable for Vietnam at the moment.
 
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Also, how's the probability of technology transfer in case that we choose the P-17A or GCS? How much would you be eager to share?
They share the data of SATs and SOSUS, about ToT.

I don't think they share critical systems and how to reproduce them.

And how much is your car payment for the car man? Unlike Vietnam, nearly all car purchases in USA are on credit. You guys live on credit and then later end up on bankruptcy. How much credit card debt do you have? (Average household credit card debt in 2015 is $15,319 and total average household debt is $132,000, like I said, you people live on credit). How about your mortgage payment. You see, in Vietnam, people actually own (fully paid) what they have, unlike in USA.

How much you pay for car insurance man? $1500-2000 a year? That's many times more than in Vietnam. And you probably pray that the police or the highway patrol doesn't find you speeding or your car insurance will skyrocket. You people live in financial fear all the time. Vietnam on the other hand was declared the happiest people on the planet a few weeks ago. I think there is something wrong with your picture man.

Actually Vietnamese have way better health coverage than Americans. In USA everybody worries about having good health insurance and for the many millions that don't have it or have substandard health insurance they pray that they don't get sick, because getting sick in good old United States of America (unlike Europe) can send you to the poorhouse. Most Americans that have good health insurance still worry about the deductibles and the 20% copayment. Wow, great standard of living man. How long is the maternity leave in America? Zero days, only developed country that doesn't have it, but is 6 months in Vietnam. And if you are self employed and you have to pay your own health insurance, how much is that man? Lets see, the cheapest type like an HMO like Kaiser is about $1500-2000 a MONTH for a family of 4 right? Wow, those self employed people better be making a lot of money.

You can try to fool the people here that know nothing about USA, but not me kid, I lived there 25 years and I'm way happier living in Vietnam and enjoying a very nice standard of living and by the way, the middle / upper class in Vietnam is already 17 million people and projected to be 33 million in just 2020 while the middle class in USA is shrinking and poverty is up while poverty in Vietnam is way down.

For your information, there are a lot of people with a lot of money in Vietnam and if you spend some time here, you'll easily see it. How many millions are on welfare in USA man? Many !!!



Thats also what I thought, that's why I was asking @William Hung what were the reasons for the FREMM because based on everything that I know, a large ship of that class was not in the plans and is not affordable for Vietnam at the moment.
Why buying large ship for AEGIS like system. Situation awareness system can even be deployed on 1000 tonne frigate. Same as what Israeli done.

But firstly, Vietnam need to get out from Netherlands, Russia and France. And ask UK, Japan and Israel for ship design development.

I think cancelling SIGMA decision was good, but ordering Gepard is horrible. Instead of this Vietnam should approached India or Japan for shipbuilding, for sensor fitment to Israel and weapon system to Russia/India/Israel.
 
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They share the data of SATs and SOSUS, about ToT.

I don't think they share critical systems and how to reproduce them.


Why buying large ship for AEGIS like system. Situation awareness system can even be deployed on 1000 tonne frigate. Same as what Israeli done.

But firstly, Vietnam need to get out from Netherlands, Russia and France. And ask UK, Japan and Israel for ship design development.

I think cancelling SIGMA decision was good, but ordering Gepard is horrible. Instead of this Vietnam should approached India or Japan for shipbuilding, for sensor fitment to Israel and weapon system to Russia/India/Israel.

Very well said, I never like the Gepard myself, I consider the SIGMA a little bit better than the Gepard, but neither one can survive a conflict with the chinese. Only the Kilos can make it.
 
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Very well said, I never like the Gepard myself, I consider the SIGMA a little bit better than the Gepard, but neither one can survive a conflict with the chinese. Only the Kilos can make it.
Gepard 5 and 6 with Kalibr cruise missiles will impress the audience a bit. Gepard or Sigma in the present configuration are designed to attack in an ambush, hit and run, not in open sea battles. We must wait until air defense destroyer. True, Kilo is the master of sea right now.

Undersea Web

A web of strategic projects is now taking shape as India’s Prime Minister Narendra Modi enters into closer relationships with Japan, Australia and the United States, as well as regional powers like Vietnam, Singapore and Malaysia. Matters began taking on urgency in late September 2014, after US President Barack Obama and PM Modi pledged to intensify cooperation in maritime security.

Following this, on 16 March 2015, the defence ministers of the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) at the end of the two-day 9th ASEAN Defence Ministers’ Meeting in Langkawi, Malaysia, collectively stated that they wanted India to play a far bigger role in both the Indian Ocean Region (IOR) and the South China Sea.

In the near future, therefore, under the auspices of the US-India Defence Framework Agreement, foundational pacts like the Logistics Support Agreement (LSA), Communication Interoperability and Security Memorandum Agreement (CISMOA), and Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement for Geo-Spatial Cooperation (BECA), will be inked by the two countries.

Concurrently, Japan will extend funding from the Japan International Cooperation Agency for the upgradation of naval air bases and construction of new ELINT/SIGINT stations along the Andaman and Nicobar chain of islands, which is made up of 572 islands (of which only 34 are presently inhabited), stretching around 470 miles north to south. But most importantly, preliminary planning has commenced on a Japan-financed project that calls for 1) laying of an undersea optical fibre cable from Chennai to Port Blair; and 2) the construction of an undersea network of seabed sonar sensors stretching from the tip of Sumatra right up to Indira Point. Once completed, this network will be an integral part of the existing US-Japan ‘Fish Hook’ sound surveillance SOSUS network.

The US was always interested in Japanese and Indian locations for its SOSUS stations. Initially called Project Caesar, this involved running cables out on continental shelves and connecting them to hydrophones suspended above the sea bottom at optimum signal depths. An ‘experimental station’ was established at the north-western tip of Hokkaido in 1957, with the cable extending into the Soya (La Perouse) Strait. It monitored all Soviet submarine traffic going in and out of Vladivostok and Nakhodka in the Sea of Japan.

Undersea surveillance systems and associated shore-based data collection stations code-named Barrier and Bronco were installed in Japan in the Sixties. Acoustic data collected at these sites was transmitted by US defence communications satellites to US Navy (USN) processing and analysis centres in the US. In the Seventies, a network between Japan and the Korean peninsula was commissioned. By 1980, three stations at Wakkanai (designated JAP-4), Tsushima (JAP-108) and the Ryukyu Islands (RYU-80) were operational in Japan, along with earlier stations built in the Tsushima Straits and the Okinawa area. The existence of old cables at Horonai Point in north-west Honshu, which during the Cold War led out to SOSUS arrays in the Sea of Japan, has been widely described by scuba divers.

By the mid-Eighties the SOSUS hydrophone arrays stretched from southern Japan to the Philippines, covering the approaches to China. After the collapse of the USSR and the decline of the submarine threat to the US in the early Nineties, the USN allowed its SOSUS systems in the north-west Pacific to atrophy, although some arrays were retained in working order so as to support civilian scientific research (such as tracking whales and monitoring undersea volcanic activity). According to a USN directive issued in August 1994, all fixed arrays in the Pacific were placed on ‘hot standby’; personnel would ‘not be routinely assigned to monitor fixed-array data’ unless that data was required for operational purposes, but in practice the probability of being able to reconstitute them to full operational status was ‘extremely low’.

However, in the early 2000s, facing an increasing PLA Navy (PLAN) submarine force and more aggressive PLAN submarine patrols, the USN decided that it needed a new chain of fixed arrays designed primarily to monitor the movement of PLAN submarines between the East China Sea and South China Sea on the one hand, and between the Pacific Ocean and the Indian Ocean on the other hand. Thus was born the US-Japan ‘Fish Hook Undersea Defense Line’ in early 2005, stretching from Japan southwards to Southeast Asia, with key nodes at Okinawa, Guam and Taiwan.

Beginning from near Kagoshima in the south-west part of Kyushu, it runs down the Osumi archipelago to Okinawa, then to Miyako-jima and Yonaguni in the southern part of the Ryukyu Islands, past Taiwan to the Balabac Islands in the Philippines, to Lomkok in the eastern part of the Indonesian archipelago, across the Sunda Strait between Java and Sumatra, and from northern Sumatra to the Andaman and Nicobar Islands. Three major gaps — between Yonaguni and Suao in north-east Taiwan (120km), between Kaohsiung in south-western Taiwan and the Dongsha (Pratas) Islands (450km) where the East China Sea meets the South China Sea, and across the Bashi Channel (220km) between Hengchun at Taiwan’s southernmost tip and Luzon Island in the Philippines — were plugged.

In addition, the USN installed a new SOSUS network, stretching from Sasebo down to Okinawa, in 2006, when the US cable-laying ship USNS Zeus operated together with oceanographic survey vessels and nuclear submarines in this area. In July 2013, Beijing claimed that the US and Japan had jointly established ‘very large underwater monitoring systems’ at the northern and southern ends of Taiwan. One of these stretched from Yonaguni to the Senkaku Islands (about 150km), while the other covered the Bashi Channel down to The Philippines. In addition, large numbers of hydrophones had been installed ‘in Chinese waters’ close to China’s submarine bases in Qingdao, Xiaopingdao, and Yulin on Hainan Island.

http://www.forceindia.net/Defexpo2016Day2_UnderseaWeb.aspx
it is not a secret the US military Intel monitors and tracks any single Chinese warship including submarine, at port, at sea, day and night. It surprises me a bit how deep the Japanese have involved in the Sosus system. Good to know.
 
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Gepard 5 and 6 with Kalibr cruise missiles will impress the audience a bit. Gepard or Sigma in the present configuration are designed to attack in an ambush, hit and run, not in open sea battles. We must wait until air defense destroyer. True, Kilo is the master of sea right now.
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If Gepard 5 and 6 keep the same air defense, they are sitting ducks same as the other Gepards.

Ambush and hit and run used to work quite ok in the past before surveillance satellites, UAVs, AWACS, etc. Do you seriously think that the chinese would not be tracking every single Vietnamese ship in a conflict? Its very difficult to hide these days, only subs can hide.
 
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