Vietnam Defence Forum

[IblinI]

Ok there are other news. A year has passed since the medics were sent to South Sudan.


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What kind of camo is that...

 

[Aqsuperman]

What kind of camo is that...

Something that come crashing out of the drawing board in 1 month lol :v Still blend in fairly well.

Back to relevant news, 1 of Vietnam 4 Gerard-class frigates,HQ-16 Quang Trung, recently left for Malaysia for a an exercise. Potentially, the exercise shall take place along with ships from Australian Navy returning from IPE-19 exercise in Sri Lanka.

 

[striver44]

Ok just a theoretical scenario: you say Vietnam is weak, how do you want to shoot down Vietnam’s high flying bombers or counter attacks of ballistic missiles if Indo airdefense only has AA guns?


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Can AA gun shoot down GPS guided land attack missile?

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Hahahahahahaha the question is....how would your ballistic missile even reach our cities?
Oh i know....i suppose the vietcong will brought the scud swimming until it reaches certain distace to strike indonesian territory

 

[Aqsuperman]

Hahahahahahaha the question is....how would your ballistic missile even reach our cities?
Oh i know....i suppose the vietcong will brought the scud swimming until it reaches certain distace to strike indonesian territory

Back for more, eh? "Uhuhuhuhu boy"? For a moment, I though you turned tail and ran back to your cage but bravo for coming back.

What Viet said is a THEORY. Do you even understand the meaning of that word? He simply wants to show that there is no way you could stop guided missiles using autocannon plus MANPADS alone. Why we want to waste our Scud on the fragile AA network of Indonesia while we could rely on precise air to surface missiles for point targets?

But I guess for people that could barely contain some small-time rebels for the longest time, theories about air-air defense are too hard to comprehend?

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

What a fcking persistent bastard you are. I give you that.



I trust them enough to use their reports. I simply don't give credit to your speculations. "Disappearance in Vietnam" equals death? Then how about "Disappearance in Indonesia"? Once again, you fail to produce solid evidence that someone actually DIED in Vietnam while I could provide TONS of sources that indicate indiscriminate killings/abuses of power take place around the clock in Indonesia.



And you call yourself an E-X-P-E-R-T lol. Vietnamese have the right to vote, to protest and to decide their fate. If we kept doing things in the old way, we would have ended up like the Soviet Union long ago. KEY DIFFERENCES there. "Trade freedom for security"? Guess what:Indonesian have neither FREEDOM nor SECURITY. Don't fool yourself: Anti-government protesters in Indonesia got shot while rebels run amok. Moreover, it's funny for us to be called "slave" by someone that annexed lands and enslave other ethics.



Sound impressive, still can't hold a candle to Vietnam operations in Cambodia Have you guys ever attacked strong points while under attacked by heavy artillery, aircraft and thousands of well armed rebels? Google "Vietnam-Thailand Border Skirmishes" to see how dismal the scope of your "rescue operation" is.



B-E-S-T? As in "has the best chance at failing miserably" time and gain? See this: If you are so good at fighting terrorists, government of other countries would not have to put up TONS of warnings regarding terrorists threat in Indonesia. Logic, mate.



And I'm certain that you just got full retard with that absurd claim. "We are so good at killing terrorists but we simply want to maintain order and shiet so we keep letting the terrorists attack us every now and then". Is that claim sound like it comes from an qualified E-X-P-E-R-T? In counter terrorists, you kill every terrorist as soon as possible, no exception. Any kind of excuses you use to refute that rule is B-U-L-L-S-H-I-E-T, plain and simple. NO ONE like to have terrorist in their country so if you have some terrorists running around then there are 2 possibilities: Either you guys SUCK at counter terrorists or Indonesia DELIBERATELY allow the terrorists to do so. Take your pick.

Speaking about Vietnam War, the only thing that the US stop from using is nuclear weapon. They already threw at us things that would make the average Indonesian wet their pant. Now I'm not claim that the US Armed Forces lack firepower. However, they simply fight the wrong war against the wrong people with the wrong strategy. Nowadays, people often talk about Vietnam War as a proof that the US occasionally go into wars without a clear "exit strategy" in mind. Iraq would be the prime example by the way.



Again, FIELD PERFORMANCE. You feed your soldiers better than us? You give you troops more weapon than us? You train your troops more rigorously than us? Then they must have performed better than us, right?

Sadly, the TNI fails HORRIBLY considering the investment that go into them. Brag about your equipment, brag about your "rescue operation", brag about "giant inter-service exercises",...but that cannot change one fact: Half of the worlds still issues warning to their citizen regarding terrorist risks in Indonesia. That means people from other countries simply don't believe that your army is able to do J-A-C-K-S-H-I-E-T to maintain order across the country.

You call us peasant army? Well our peasant army know not to shoot our unarmed protesters. Could you say the same about your "professional" troops? Oh being trigger happy is a trait of professionalism in the TNI?



"Because it's Russian" is not a plausible excuse to play down risk from AA and SAM. Remember that while we concentrate our army in the north, every division in the VPA possesses organic SAMs. In fact, many bases in the South have deep SAM umbrella to shield important installations near the coast so fat chance you guys could push through without dying in droves.



Oh please, your F-16s are still Block 32+ Standards A/B and C/D. Those aircraft came into being back in 1980s. They are at least 3 decade old. Without upgrades, as if they could carry modern day gears for air suppression duty. That is IF you have something for that kind of duty. Again, don't think, either name the shiet you have or accept the fact that you have nothing at all. Period.

"Better planes and better pilots"? Eh, I don't think people are willing to sell you good stuff if you intend to pay them with palm oil. Just saying. Pilot skills? Have you pilot receive training from people that actually shoot down planes? We went tango with the US Air force for decades, not mention that we are a long time ally of Russia. As if we could lose to you guys in pilot training.



A while ago, you claimed that you guys could leisurely "annihilate every viet base in southern Vietnam" at the drop of a hat but now you just want us to get out of natuna? That seems to be a DRAMATIC drop from your earlier claims, right? Good luck holding up to that kind of dream lol.

• Your ships could not reach us without being engaged by shore missiles, submarine and surface warships

• Your jet could not reach us without being engaged by SAMs, autocannon and of course, VPAF Sukhoi fighter

• Your guys have nothing good for air suppression duty, let alone base-killing weapons.

Conclusion: Indonesian could barely scratch bases in Vietnam. Your chance of dealing critical damages is second to none.



India and Russia are allies in the international stage but they are also competitors in weapon market. It's understandable that Russia might not want to give India the best thing they have but both countries nonetheless cooperate from time to time, namely the Brahmos project which Vietnam already secured a few dozens examples the last I heard. But Vietnam? As if we could endanger Russia position when it comes to exporting weapon. That is why the odds are good that Russia might be willing to offer us quality stuff. In the case they are unable to give us the best thing they have in their service then whatever they give us still could not be as crappy as you Indonesian hope to be. Who would buy from Russia if all they give for their long time allies are crappy stuff? Again, logic.

Once more time, I have to remind you that you are an amateur. The "process of elimination" you come up with has an EXTREMELY low credibility. Without CONCRETE collaborations from TRUE EXPERTS that have better insights, your claim is nothing but TRASH.

P.S: While Russia is willing to sell weapon, the bear seems to prefer hard currencies over palm oil. So I dare SPECULATE that Su-35 for Indonesian would be equal the quality of palm oil you guys send

This coming from a guy that still supports communism in 2019. Look here why don't you start anti vcp protest & if you're not tortured or dead by then I will concede.

In indonesia protests happens every day. From minor to serious. Most of the time there's no violence.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...ts-stage-protest-for-papuas-independence.html

In vietnam you can never protest like this.

Also human rights is not just about being killed. Which is a very narrow understanding of human rights. Its about everybody being allowed to use their rights without the state interfering in them. On this case vietnam failed magnificently.

Have you seen vietnam soldiers? It looks like almost all of them are malnourished. Seriously did you even fed them?

Meanwhile the VPAs are too busy wasting tax payers money by doing mostly nothing. While the indonesian taxpayers are actually getting their money's worth. And are you probably confusing cops with the army?

Close but no dice

Indonesia have 23 F-16s that have been upgraded to the block 52ID configuration. Which have SNIPER Pods & other pods that can be configured for other missions. Vietnam entire airforce would have been wiped out in the 1st engagement if we actually field all of them.

Jezus most of those guys that danced with the americans probably can't even remember their own names right now. Fun facts indonesia not only have russia as a place of training for our pilots. But also Australia, US, India & more as our partner.

Not to mention we trounced the Australian air force during pitch black exercise 2012. Last time I check the australians are better than you.

Except india doesn't produce 125mm tank rounds & not a competitor in that field. Despite india being a major customers. Buying more weapons in a single quarter than vietnam. Russia still doesn't give them & Mango is the only rounds the russian export. So no lekalo or svinets for you. Meanwhile our DM53 can destroy your T-90s like it was nothing.

But that also makes you Russia's bitch. Indonesia is in the verge of becoming a major arms producer & if war do break out we can build our own & vietnam can't.

 

[Aqsuperman]

This coming from a guy that still supports communism in 2019. Look here why don't you start anti vcp protest & if you're not tortured or dead by then I will concede.

Monarchies supposed to died over centuries ago but many still lingers around in the present days. Why don't people from those countries rise up and overthrow the throne?

"If I'm not tortured or dead" = "I must protest against the VCp". What kind of fck up logics is that?

In indonesia protests happens every day. From minor to serious. Most of the time there's no violence.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...ts-stage-protest-for-papuas-independence.html

In vietnam you can never protest like this.

Vietnamese rarely have to protests because though life is hard, they could push through using help from the government. Don't act as if "having many protests" is the proof of freedom lol, especially when you open fire against the protesters every now and then while we NEVER resort to that kind of method.

Also human rights is not just about being killed. Which is a very narrow understanding of human rights. Its about everybody being allowed to use their rights without the state interfering in them. On this case vietnam failed magnificently.

Right,...So you mean killing people is still not as server as NOT killing people? That is once FCKING CATCH 22 LOGIC there. What's next? "Counter terrorist is not about killing them, it's about nurturing them so they keep attacking you until you all wind up dead"?

Have you seen vietnam soldiers? It looks like almost all of them are malnourished. Seriously did you even fed them?

Duh, I AM technically a Vietnamese soldier. From what I look, they eat just fine. Malnourished? Well as long as world nutritionists don't classify Vietnam and the Vietnam People Army as malnourished then guess what: Once more time, your opinion is TRASH.

Meanwhile the VPAs are too busy wasting tax payers money by doing mostly nothing. While the indonesian taxpayers are actually getting their money's worth. And are you probably confusing cops with the army?

Efficiency, efficiency, efficiency,...

• Vietnam soldiers do nothing but manage to secure peace for decades.

• Indonesian soldiers do a lot of thing but government from other countries still judge your country as a nest of terrorists.

Yea...I think that it was YOU Indonesian that FAIL to get your money woorth LOL.

Indonesia have 23 F-16s that have been upgraded to the block 52ID configuration. Which have SNIPER Pods & other pods that can be configured for other missions. Vietnam entire airforce would have been wiped out in the 1st engagement if we actually field all of them.

In the US records, your F-16 are classified as Block 32+, the name "block 52ID" is nowhere near actual "block 52" lol. "Vietnam entire airforce would have been wiped out in the 1st engagement" SOUND FCKING SCARY indeed. But guess what: The air frame of your F-16 already reach the end of their service life. I highly doubt they could do JACK SHIET against the combination of modern day SAM + Sukhoi. Again, no sources, no pictures, just words. And no one give credit to words alone

Jezus most of those guys that danced with the americans probably can't even remember their own names right now. Fun facts indonesia not only have russia as a place of training for our pilots. But also Australia, US, India & more as our partner.

Oh I don't know but is alzheimer disease widespread in Indonesia and old Indonesians lost their mind the moment they hit 60s? Because in Vietnam, our old war veteran could manage themselves fairly well and they sure as hell could recount battle stories for the young pilots. Train as hard as you like but nothing beat tactics obtained from actual wars.

Not to mention we trounced the Australian air force during pitch black exercise 2012. Last time I check the australians are better than you.

You guys "trounced" the Australian air force? Could you provides sources for that? What is the kill ratio in the stimulation by the way? 5 : 1? 10: 1? or...13 : 1? You know that you throwing out a claim without backup sources is kind of DUMP, right?

Except india doesn't produce 125mm tank rounds & not a competitor in that field. Despite india being a major customers. Buying more weapons in a single quarter than vietnam. Russia still doesn't give them & Mango is the only rounds the russian export. So no lekalo or svinets for you. Meanwhile our DM53 can destroy your T-90s like it was nothing.

Lol for an E-X-P-E-R-T, you are slow at catching up recent developments. Search the phrase "India tank munition" and se the result.. Russian already transfered technologies to India so the latter could produce 125mm rounds long ago. Who know if the India could start exporting the rounds in the future. Once again, I have to emphasize the fact that Indonesian Leopard are USED vehicles that Bundeswehr ditched out of their Cold War era storage. On the other hand, Vietnam T-90 are newly manufactured. Want to compared hull age? I would advised that Indonesia tank driver be careful not to break the hull of their elderly Leopard while maneuvering.

But that also makes you Russia's bitch. Indonesia is in the verge of becoming a major arms producer & if war do break out we can build our own & vietnam can't.

Oh you want to go with more derogatory? I guess the gloves are off then so how about this: Vietnam is a bitch but Indonesia, a country with an almighty army could not maintain order across the land which is obviously worse than what the army of a bitch could do. So what that make the Indonesia military ? A SON OF A BITCH? A PUSSY? A WENCH?

"In the verge of becoming a major arms producer" my A-S-S. You best invention lately is a light tank. So far no fighter jet, no MBT,...no stuff that could help you win ACTUAL wars. What I find funny most is that the more you brag about the strength of your army, I feel them to be weaker and weaker. Foreign governments still publish countless warning about the risk of terrorist in Indonesia but you believe you are "winning" the war on terrorists? With all of that tanks, jets and shiet but Indonesia still suffer terrorist attacks after terrorist attacks for the last 20 years? Indonesia fields the best counter terrorist unit in the region? Apparently not "best" enough to finish rag tag rebels once and for all.

SO THEN WHAT GOOD IS YOUR ARMY? JUST A SHOW DOG THAT ONLY BITE FOR REAL IN EXERCISES?

 

[striver44]

Back for more, eh? "Uhuhuhuhu boy"? For a moment, I though you turned tail and ran back to your cage but bravo for coming back.

What Viet said is a THEORY. Do you even understand the meaning of that word? He simply wants to show that there is no way you could stop guided missiles using autocannon plus MANPADS alone. Why we want to waste our Scud on the fragile AA network of Indonesia while we could rely on precise air to surface missiles for point targets?

But I guess for people that could barely contain some small-time rebels for the longest time, theories about air-air defense are too hard to comprehend?

Ouhhh i suggest my girlfriend @Aqsuperman miss me already hahahha

Back for more, eh? "Uhuhuhuhu boy"? For a moment, I though you turned tail and ran back to your cage but bravo for coming back.

What Viet said is a THEORY. Do you even understand the meaning of that word? He simply wants to show that there is no way you could stop guided missiles using autocannon plus MANPADS alone. Why we want to waste our Scud on the fragile AA network of Indonesia while we could rely on precise air to surface missiles for point targets?

But I guess for people that could barely contain some small-time rebels for the longest time, theories about air-air defense are too hard to comprehend?

Well I've got work to do so its not wise to spend all my time here, i suggest youre jobless because you appear to have nothing to do other than defending vietnam fishermen in this forum lol

This coming from a guy that still supports communism in 2019. Look here why don't you start anti vcp protest & if you're not tortured or dead by then I will concede.

In indonesia protests happens every day. From minor to serious. Most of the time there's no violence.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...ts-stage-protest-for-papuas-independence.html

In vietnam you can never protest like this.

Also human rights is not just about being killed. Which is a very narrow understanding of human rights. Its about everybody being allowed to use their rights without the state interfering in them. On this case vietnam failed magnificently.

Have you seen vietnam soldiers? It looks like almost all of them are malnourished. Seriously did you even fed them?

Meanwhile the VPAs are too busy wasting tax payers money by doing mostly nothing. While the indonesian taxpayers are actually getting their money's worth. And are you probably confusing cops with the army?

Close but no dice
View attachment 547263
Indonesia have 23 F-16s that have been upgraded to the block 52ID configuration. Which have SNIPER Pods & other pods that can be configured for other missions. Vietnam entire airforce would have been wiped out in the 1st engagement if we actually field all of them.

Jezus most of those guys that danced with the americans probably can't even remember their own names right now. Fun facts indonesia not only have russia as a place of training for our pilots. But also Australia, US, India & more as our partner.

Not to mention we trounced the Australian air force during pitch black exercise 2012. Last time I check the australians are better than you.

Except india doesn't produce 125mm tank rounds & not a competitor in that field. Despite india being a major customers. Buying more weapons in a single quarter than vietnam. Russia still doesn't give them & Mango is the only rounds the russian export. So no lekalo or svinets for you. Meanwhile our DM53 can destroy your T-90s like it was nothing.

But that also makes you Russia's bitch. Indonesia is in the verge of becoming a major arms producer & if war do break out we can build our own & vietnam can't.

I've told you before, relax there is nothing the vietnamese goverment ever going to do with those fishermen, we could trade blow with them all day long, but whats the point? We're humiliating their CG and destroying their fishing fleet and there is nothing those T90,scid,kalibr,kilo,s300 shit going to do to change that.....lol.

believe me im more than happy once those scid missile and kalibr are fired. Indonesian goverment will then allocate more funds for the armed forces and we will have aour F16V's and our AAW frigate faster then we all hope. Dont forget that indonesian navy only consider AAW frigate after the chinese coast guard incident back in 2016

Then stop our guard ships in disputed zone first. We r taking tons of good fish, crab, losbter in VN-ID disputed zone evryday and leave Nothing to ID fisherman

LOl admitting yourself for theft. And while the samw time cry baby because china wants some of your islands

This coming from a guy that still supports communism in 2019. Look here why don't you start anti vcp protest & if you're not tortured or dead by then I will concede.

In indonesia protests happens every day. From minor to serious. Most of the time there's no violence.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...ts-stage-protest-for-papuas-independence.html

In vietnam you can never protest like this.

Also human rights is not just about being killed. Which is a very narrow understanding of human rights. Its about everybody being allowed to use their rights without the state interfering in them. On this case vietnam failed magnificently.

Have you seen vietnam soldiers? It looks like almost all of them are malnourished. Seriously did you even fed them?

Meanwhile the VPAs are too busy wasting tax payers money by doing mostly nothing. While the indonesian taxpayers are actually getting their money's worth. And are you probably confusing cops with the army?

Close but no dice
View attachment 547263
Indonesia have 23 F-16s that have been upgraded to the block 52ID configuration. Which have SNIPER Pods & other pods that can be configured for other missions. Vietnam entire airforce would have been wiped out in the 1st engagement if we actually field all of them.

Jezus most of those guys that danced with the americans probably can't even remember their own names right now. Fun facts indonesia not only have russia as a place of training for our pilots. But also Australia, US, India & more as our partner.

Their only modern jets are basically the sukhois.....the rest are hand me down cold war era jets.
Meanwhile indonesia could field not only sukhois, but also F16's, hawks, T50's. Not to mention the incoming su35. Their s300 sound so scary, in paper. We all know how those missile performed against western built jets in syria. In theory egyptian air defence should decimate the IAF in 1973 and 1982. But look what happened? Hahahahaha
Their navy is built on molniya class attack boat (yes boat) with limited range (vietnam doesnt operate navy oiler). During the desrt storm campaign 12 such iraqi missile boats were decimated by royal navy westland lynx. Dont forget that we will stationed Apache's on natuna. The only ocean going vessel would be the 4 gepard frigate and hand me down pohangs with no missile armament . Not a big deal at all

 

[Aqsuperman]

Ouhhh i suggest my girlfriend @Aqsuperman miss me already hahahha

You might be careful about your choice of words. The last I heard, Indonesia beat up gays and people that claim to be gays. So if you have weird fancies about me, you should keep them to yourselves, no need to speak out loud. Unless that is what get you d-i-c-k up...

Well I've got work to do so its not wise to spend all my time here, i suggest youre jobless because you appear to have nothing to do other than defending vietnam fishermen in this forum lol

Lol do you want to compare about our occupation now? See this: It was YOU Indonesian that came to OUR thread, not the other way around. We are normally HERE. So as if we would let you rambling on and on about the might of Indonesian Army while dehumanizing us Vietnamese in this thread. For the record, I spend roughly 20 minutes/day browsing military forums and defense related pages as a hobby which means I could accomplish my militia duty AND my primary job no trouble.

I've told you before, relax there is nothing the vietnamese goverment ever going to do with those fishermen, we could trade blow with them all day long, but whats the point? We're humiliating their CG and destroying their fishing fleet and there is nothing those T90,scid,kalibr,kilo,s300 shit going to do to change that.....lol.

Feeling proud to be an aggressor on the sea, eh? Japan used to act like that around 80 years ago as well. Guess what happen to them? Yeah, 2 nukes. Keep resorting to live ammunition and the next thing come to shove would be missiles. See if your pathetic AA guns and short range MANPADS could save Indonesian A-S-S from getting nicely TOASTED.

believe me im more than happy once those scid missile and kalibr are fired. Indonesian goverment will then allocate more funds for the armed forces and we will have aour F16V's and our AAW frigate faster then we all hope. Dont forget that indonesian navy only consider AAW frigate after the chinese coast guard incident back in 2016

Indonesian already tossed away TONS of money to combat threats from terrorists with zero effects. I would love to see how Indonesia could scramble money effectively in wartime conditions with missiles pounding their cities day and night.

eanwhile indonesia could field not only sukhois, but also F16's, hawks, T50's

Yeah, Indonesian F-16s are not hand-me-down jets either, they are just extremely old By the way, did you just include trainer and light attack aircraft? The newest Hawks would be at least 16 year old by now, not to mention that it possesses laughable combat loads and service range. T-50 Golden Eagle? You use trainers for combat duty? They would be nice target practices at best.

We all know how those missile performed against western built jets in syria. In theory egyptian air defence should decimate the IAF in 1973 and 1982. But look what happened? Hahahahaha

Once again, you guys need to know that Israeli simply have ample experience in air suppression which they obtain after suffering heavy losses in the Yom Kippur War. They have the tools AND the tactics. Indonesian nowadays?

-No ACTUAL SAMs so near zero experience in air suppression duty
-No anti radiation missiles so you pilots need to rely on visual confirmation while targeting SAM sites, which is basically flying around until we shoot you down.

Keep laughing like that until we send back Indonesian pilots to Jakarta in body bags

Their navy is built on molniya class attack boat (yes boat) with limited range (vietnam doesnt operate navy oiler).

Because we don't consider oilier as naval assets in peace time. In wartime, we could appropriate vessels from PetroVietam to support ships on extended missions.

uring the desrt storm campaign 12 such iraqi missile boats were decimated by royal navy westland lynx.

So you guys are as good as the Brits? I doubt that as they killed Indonesian left and right with relative ease back in Indonesian National Revolution.

The only ocean going vessel would be the 4 gepard frigate and hand me down pohangs with no missile armament . Not a big deal at all

You conveniently forget that we have 6 cruise missile capable Kilo submarines. Considering the fact that the best ASW ships in Indonesian service are a fleet of rotten ex-East German Project 1331M, I would LOVE to see how Indonesian Navy fare against opposing subs that could throw missiles from more than 200 kilometers away. Of course, we would have to take into account the missile defense of Indonesia...Wait a minute: Your guys have SHIET in that aspect

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Monarchies supposed to died over centuries ago but many still lingers around in the present days. Why don't people from those countries rise up and overthrow the throne?

"If I'm not tortured or dead" = "I must protest against the VCp". What kind of fck up logics is that?



Vietnamese rarely have to protests because though life is hard, they could push through using help from the government. Don't act as if "having many protests" is the proof of freedom lol, especially when you open fire against the protesters every now and then while we NEVER resort to that kind of method.



Right,...So you mean killing people is still not as server as NOT killing people? That is once FCKING CATCH 22 LOGIC there. What's next? "Counter terrorist is not about killing them, it's about nurturing them so they keep attacking you until you all wind up dead"?



Duh, I AM technically a Vietnamese soldier. From what I look, they eat just fine. Malnourished? Well as long as world nutritionists don't classify Vietnam and the Vietnam People Army as malnourished then guess what: Once more time, your opinion is TRASH.



Efficiency, efficiency, efficiency,...

• Vietnam soldiers do nothing but manage to secure peace for decades.

• Indonesian soldiers do a lot of thing but government from other countries still judge your country as a nest of terrorists.

Yea...I think that it was YOU Indonesian that FAIL to get your money woorth LOL.



In the US records, your F-16 are classified as Block 32+, the name "block 52ID" is nowhere near actual "block 52" lol. "Vietnam entire airforce would have been wiped out in the 1st engagement" SOUND FCKING SCARY indeed. But guess what: The air frame of your F-16 already reach the end of their service life. I highly doubt they could do JACK SHIET against the combination of modern day SAM + Sukhoi. Again, no sources, no pictures, just words. And no one give credit to words alone



Oh I don't know but is alzheimer disease widespread in Indonesia and old Indonesians lost their mind the moment they hit 60s? Because in Vietnam, our old war veteran could manage themselves fairly well and they sure as hell could recount battle stories for the young pilots. Train as hard as you like but nothing beat tactics obtained from actual wars.



You guys "trounced" the Australian air force? Could you provides sources for that? What is the kill ratio in the stimulation by the way? 5 : 1? 10: 1? or...13 : 1? You know that you throwing out a claim without backup sources is kind of DUMP, right?



Lol for an E-X-P-E-R-T, you are slow at catching up recent developments. Search the phrase "India tank munition" and se the result.. Russian already transfered technologies to India so the latter could produce 125mm rounds long ago. Who know if the India could start exporting the rounds in the future. Once again, I have to emphasize the fact that Indonesian Leopard are USED vehicles that Bundeswehr ditched out of their Cold War era storage. On the other hand, Vietnam T-90 are newly manufactured. Want to compared hull age? I would advised that Indonesia tank driver be careful not to break the hull of their elderly Leopard while maneuvering.



Oh you want to go with more derogatory? I guess the gloves are off then so how about this: Vietnam is a bitch but Indonesia, a country with an almighty army could not maintain order across the land which is obviously worse than what the army of a bitch could do. So what that make the Indonesia military ? A SON OF A BITCH? A PUSSY? A WENCH?

"In the verge of becoming a major arms producer" my A-S-S. You best invention lately is a light tank. So far no fighter jet, no MBT,...no stuff that could help you win ACTUAL wars. What I find funny most is that the more you brag about the strength of your army, I feel them to be weaker and weaker. Foreign governments still publish countless warning about the risk of terrorist in Indonesia but you believe you are "winning" the war on terrorists? With all of that tanks, jets and shiet but Indonesia still suffer terrorist attacks after terrorist attacks for the last 20 years? Indonesia fields the best counter terrorist unit in the region? Apparently not "best" enough to finish rag tag rebels once and for all.

SO THEN WHAT GOOD IS YOUR ARMY? JUST A SHOW DOG THAT ONLY BITE FOR REAL IN EXERCISES?

This is your argument btw:

Vietnam isn't a human right shithole despite:

- Having no election.

- No protest right.

- Draconian laws. (You can get arrested for not singing a song correctly.)

- Low labor rights.

- No free press.

- Culture of systematic abuses.

- Repression on religious right.

- Unlawful executions.

- Enslaving prisoners for labor. https://laborrights.org/our-work/forced-labor-vietnam (>30k people enslaved to make t-shirts.)

& So on & so forth... But according to you its not so bad. Because they don't kill people (not that you know of) somehow?

Do you realize how retarded you are right now?

See this is why its right to called vietnamese as slaves. As long as you guys are fed you won't say a word despite the horrible shit happening in the background. The right to Protest is the foundation of human rights without it you might as well live in tyranny. Oh wait? You already in one. [emoji23]

Oh yeah, because because 60 years old dogfighting experience in a mig 21 is going to do you any good. There is a better way to embarrass yourself, you know.

Doing nothing is now called efficiency? Well I know what I'm going to use as an excuse for not going to work. "Hey, boss I'm not going to work because I'm being efficient right now." Genius! By that logic bums are just being efficient. VPA are not bums they are just being efficient.

What kind of argument is that anyway. The least active you are the more effective you become?

Still doesn't change the facts that we still have better armed forces than yours. BTW trouncing the australian, its real. The exercise starts with australian super hornets locking on the flankers but the flankers immediately close the distance and move behind their backs & tag them.

Also about terrorists. In case you didn't know something bad just happened in new zealand & Netherland just now. Wonder what you think about their armed forces. After all you tied military prowess to how they can stop terrorism that they have no control of?

See how flawed your argument is?

 

[Aqsuperman]

Vietnam isn't a human right shithole despite:

- Having no election.

- No protest right.

- Draconian laws. (You can get arrested for not singing a song correctly.)

- Low labor rights.

- No free press.

- Culture of systematic abuses.

- Repression on religious right.

- Unlawful executions.

- Enslaving prisoners for labor. https://laborrights.org/our-work/forced-labor-vietnam (>30k people enslaved to make t-shirts.)

& So on & so forth... But according to you its not so bad. Because they don't kill people (not that you know of) somehow?

Do you realize how retarded you are right now?

Here is what I want you to do: Take those key words you list, put "Indonesia" next to them and search the phrase online. See how many result come up? P.S: I already did that so don't try to bullshiet your way out of this. In the case you are too lazy, here are some links

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/indonesia-set-carry-out-14-unlawful-executions-tonight
http://www.etan.org/news/2011/11faleopayne.htm
https://www.state.gov/documents/organization/268976.pdf

"You can get arrested for not singing a song correctly" ? Oh wait, it sound familiar somehow...Oh that shiet just happen a couple of weeks ago in Indonesia. Can I claim that you guys also use "draconian laws" as you prosecute people for signing an anti-military song?

Yes, according to ME, Vietnam is PARADISE compared to Indonesia as NO ONE have died yet. There is a reason why murder is one the hideous crimes in modern laws. There is no way IN Hell a country that kill people indiscriminately could claim to have a "relatively strong human right". We keep going back and forth over this issue so try to get this this through your fcking thick skull of your.

YOU KILL PEOPLE. I HAVE PROOFS WITH THE WORD "KILL" IN THEM.
WE DON'T KILL PEOPLE. HAVE PROOF THAT SHOW OTHERWISE? SHOW IT.

See this is why its right to called vietnamese as slaves. As long as you guys are fed you won't say a word despite the horrible shit happening in the background. The right to Protest is the foundation of human rights without it you might as well live in tyranny. Oh wait? You already in one

You have a hard time comprehending HUMAN words? I already said Vietnamese have the right to object government decision. We simply choose to do that through various channels before resorting to mass protects. In Indonesia? Sure, you could protest at will. It just that sometime, Indonesian soldiers + polices might shoot protesters to death, that's all.

Awesome "foundation of human rights" you got there.

Oh yeah, because because 60 years old dogfighting experience in a mig 21 is going to do you any good. There is a better way to embarrass yourself, you know.

War never changes. Experiences from an old war always provide good knowledge. But for an army that got massacred with a ratio between 6 :1 and 13 : 1, there is indeed nothing to learn from old veterans.

Doing nothing is now called efficiency? Well I know what I'm going to use as an excuse for not going to work. "Hey, boss I'm not going to work because I'm being efficient right now." Genius! By that logic bums are just being efficient. VPA are not bums they are just being efficient.

It seem that you are born stupid. See: How could you measure the effectiveness of an army? Do you measure by counting the number of exercise and the expense that go in it? Or you take a good look at its ability to maintain orders in the country?

VPA is inactive, lazy and simply act like a bum? Then why the heck is there is no terrorists around in Vietnam? We have more than 50 ethics, 8 major religions with dozens of conflicting thoughts, not to mention that we are located in a zone know for ongoing insurrection. So by your logic, Vietnam would have been ravaged by terrorists attacks for YEARS.

But guess what: VPA NEVER let an terrorist attack occur. Why? We simply fight things that have to be fought. Period. In Indonesia, the military focus on hosting exercise and bragging about their might. That is the REASON why for decades, Indonesian have to live alongside terrorists. Unless there are major changes, your children and their grandchildren would also have to live knowing that some jack A-S-S might blow them up in heartbeat, all because the military fail to set things right.

Still doesn't change the facts that we still have better armed forces than yours. BTW trouncing the australian, its real. The exercise starts with australian super hornets locking on the flankers but the flankers immediately close the distance and move behind their backs & tag them.

Have you seen the annual parades of the New Iraqi Army before the ISIS attacks? They showcase top of the line weaponry, things that only cold hard dollars could afford. But once ISIS sweep over, the Army disinterested into the wind. Sure, Indonesia might have fancy stuff in the military but in the end, what Indonesian want is ORDER. An Army that fail to maintain ORDER means NOTHING.

Btw, I don't want to hear your fcking words, I want a god damn source that claim you guys "trounce" the Australia Air Force. Stimulation reports, flight logs, ..whatever, just throw me some proofs. Unless that it happens to belong solely to your IMAGINATION again as with the "rotten VPAF Su-27".

Also about terrorists. In case you didn't know something bad just happened in new zealand & Netherland just now. Wonder what you think about their armed forces. After all you tied military prowess to how they can stop terrorism that they have no control of?

See how flawed your argument is?

What happen in Christchurch, New Zealand is a typical "lone wolf" attack. While it's indeed possible to claim that it's a terrorist attack, I personally think that it's a mass shooting motivated by hatred against Muslim, similar to what happen in schools in the United States.

BUT, and this is a big BUT, what currently happen in Indonesia is far more different than New Zealand. You guys have ACTIVE insurrections. New Zealand? They have no rebel. That means the Indonesian army must perform better than the NZ at stopping terrorist attacks. Sadly, the performance of your military is simply a BIG disappointment. For the last 2 decades, how many months manage to pass by in Indonesia without a terrorist attack?

My idea stand the same: The duty of an army is to protect its people, maintain order and secure the land. An army that is REPEATEDLY fail to accomplish these tasks, no matter how "fancy" it appears, is an army of JOKERS. Period.

 

[Viet]

Hi

What kind of camo is that...

a random camo I guess. As for camo, Vietnam develops some domestic small arms and fake major weapons to fool enemy satellites. I wonder if they can succeed?

On the background a fake S300 missile system

real S300

fake Su30

real Su30

 

[striver44]

You might be careful about your choice of words. The last I heard, Indonesia beat up gays and people that claim to be gays. So if you have weird fancies about me, you should keep them to yourselves, no need to speak out loud. Unless that is what get you d-i-c-k up...

Nahhh I get it, Youre probably a 17 year old girl , real men talk with cold head, unlike immature girls ofcourse who used to grumble every trash words they could throw , spoiled brat hahaha. I suppose your period isnt over yet. Im sorry to bother you

You might be careful about your choice of words. The last I heard, Indonesia beat up gays and people that claim to be gays. So if you have weird fancies about me, you should keep them to yourselves, no need to speak out loud. Unless that is what get you d-i-c-k up...



Lol do you want to compare about our occupation now? See this: It was YOU Indonesian that came to OUR thread, not the other way around. We are normally HERE. So as if we would let you rambling on and on about the might of Indonesian Army while dehumanizing us Vietnamese in this thread. For the record, I spend roughly 20 minutes/day browsing military forums and defense related pages as a hobby which means I could accomplish my militia duty AND my primary job no trouble.



Feeling proud to be an aggressor on the sea, eh? Japan used to act like that around 80 years ago as well. Guess what happen to them? Yeah, 2 nukes. Keep resorting to live ammunition and the next thing come to shove would be missiles. See if your pathetic AA guns and short range MANPADS could save Indonesian A-S-S from getting nicely TOASTED.



Indonesian already tossed away TONS of money to combat threats from terrorists with zero effects. I would love to see how Indonesia could scramble money effectively in wartime conditions with missiles pounding their cities day and night.



Yeah, Indonesian F-16s are not hand-me-down jets either, they are just extremely old By the way, did you just include trainer and light attack aircraft? The newest Hawks would be at least 16 year old by now, not to mention that it possesses laughable combat loads and service range. T-50 Golden Eagle? You use trainers for combat duty? They would be nice target practices at best.


Once again, you guys need to know that Israeli simply have ample experience in air suppression which they obtain after suffering heavy losses in the Yom Kippur War. They have the tools AND the tactics. Indonesian nowadays?

-No ACTUAL SAMs so near zero experience in air suppression duty
-No anti radiation missiles so you pilots need to rely on visual confirmation while targeting SAM sites, which is basically flying around until we shoot you down.

Keep laughing like that until we send back Indonesian pilots to Jakarta in body bags



Because we don't consider oilier as naval assets in peace time. In wartime, we could appropriate vessels from PetroVietam to support ships on extended missions.



So you guys are as good as the Brits? I doubt that as they killed Indonesian left and right with relative ease back in Indonesian National Revolution.



You conveniently forget that we have 6 cruise missile capable Kilo submarines. Considering the fact that the best ASW ships in Indonesian service are a fleet of rotten ex-East German Project 1331M, I would LOVE to see how Indonesian Navy fare against opposing subs that could throw missiles from more than 200 kilometers away. Of course, we would have to take into account the missile defense of Indonesia...Wait a minute: Your guys have SHIET in that aspect

Ohhh yes i love those kilo class subamrine joke......please kindly send your 50+++++++ cruise missile. But we both understand that it'll not happen at all . So sad
Claim to be military expert , regulary browse military forum LOL.What you seem to miss , is that our block15 F16's is now in the process of SLEP to increase its readiness

And our T50 trainer will soon be equiped with AN/APG 67 multimode radar. 20 already ordered to equip 15 jets

I think its enough to deal with your old su 22 legacy fighters........

And one more thing miss aqsuperman, mind to tell you the Parchim's are not our most advanced ASW vessels. Our sigma's and f2000 deserve that honor. Our parchims are now mostly used as a gunboats and quasi coast guard and its the spearhead in the fight against illegal vietnamese fishing boats for the time being. At least until our 110M and 80M coast guard vessels are ready for service

 

[Aqsuperman]

Nahhh I get it, Youre probably a 17 year old girl , real men talk with cold head, unlike immature girls ofcourse who used to grumble every trash words they could throw , spoiled brat hahaha. I suppose your period isnt over yet. Im sorry to bother you

Nah, I'm definitely a matured man that bring out facts. Only girls (and boys that act like girl) imitate crying sounds like "uhuhuhuh" during arguments. Do you happen to know someone like that around? In my opinion, that guy seem like quite F-A-G. Wonder how his homophobic parents think oh him

Ohhh yes i love those kilo class subamrine joke......please kindly send your 50+++++++ cruise missile. But we both understand that it'll not happen at all . So sad

So you Indonesian talk big about the capability of the Indonesia, claim that it would be simple to defeat Vietnam Armed Forces in a single stroke and threaten us with war. But now that I bring up the war talk, you said that "it'll not happen at all"? You have split personalities or what? Indonesia lack actual SAMs, no quality ASW vessels and most important of all, no experience in air defense suppression. Explain to me how these COLD. HARD. FACTS are jokes?

Claim to be military expert , regulary browse military forum LOL.What you seem to miss , is that our block15 F16's is now in the process of SLEP to increase its readiness

It's my hobby to keep an out for defense development, that is all. I never claim to be an expert. It was your friend Xigwin that claim be an expert that spent "years researching the VPA".

Again, I rely on the US reports regrading the variants of F-16 they sell to customer all over. As far as I concern, Indonesian F-16s are ancient/worn out. For a period, I believe that Indonesian F-16s have to be grounded due to the lack of part caused by an arm embargo (likely from 2000 to 2005). Simply put, to be effective nowadays, F-16s have to reach Block 60 standard at the very least.

And our T50 trainer will soon be equiped with AN/APG 67 multimode radar. 20 already ordered to equip 15 jetsI think its enough to deal with your old su 22 legacy fighters

A trainer is still a trainer, no one in their right mind bring trainers to wars. Even the Korean who produce the FA-50, the most combat capable version of the Golden Eagle line, only use such aircraft in light attack role. Furthermore, VPAF Su-22s are mostly attackers nowadays so they only show up in favorable conditions. In air-to-air role, Vietnam Su-27/30 are the main players. Say a beef-up trainer could beat a purpose-design fighter?

And one more thing miss aqsuperman, mind to tell you the Parchim's are not our most advanced ASW vessels. Our sigma's and f2000 deserve that honor. Our parchims are now mostly used as a gunboats and quasi coast guard and its the spearhead in the fight against illegal vietnamese fishing boats for the time being. At least until our 110M and 80M coast guard vessels are ready for service

OK, let take your words at face value (which I highly doubt their credibility), what are the best ASW weapons such ships have? Torpedoes launchers and torpedoes armed helicopters? Could they successfully detect targets and sunk submarines up to 200 kilometers away? Assuming that you guys use the newest version of Eurocopter AS565 Panther, the detection range is still wholly inadequate to neutralize cruise missile capable submarines. That is IF enemy jet fighter fail to notice such helicopter strolling around.

 

[MacanJawa]

please stop, what type vpa body armor use? using western style like CIRAS, FSBE plate carrier or russian style 6b43?

 

[Viet]

Nahhh I get it, Youre probably a 17 year old girl , real men talk with cold head, unlike immature girls ofcourse who used to grumble every trash words they could throw , spoiled brat hahaha. I suppose your period isnt over yet. Im sorry to bother you




Ohhh yes i love those kilo class subamrine joke......please kindly send your 50+++++++ cruise missile. But we both understand that it'll not happen at all . So sad
Claim to be military expert , regulary browse military forum LOL.What you seem to miss , is that our block15 F16's is now in the process of SLEP to increase its readiness

And our T50 trainer will soon be equiped with AN/APG 67 multimode radar. 20 already ordered to equip 15 jets

I think its enough to deal with your old su 22 legacy fighters........

And one more thing miss aqsuperman, mind to tell you the Parchim's are not our most advanced ASW vessels. Our sigma's and f2000 deserve that honor. Our parchims are now mostly used as a gunboats and quasi coast guard and its the spearhead in the fight against illegal vietnamese fishing boats for the time being. At least until our 110M and 80M coast guard vessels are ready for service

It’s not that easy. Unless you can prove you can fight, Indo military prowess only exists on paper. Buying military hardware, doing endless exercises, soldiers wearing fancy equipment prove nothing.

The US airforce fielded 207 B52 bombers and more than 2,000 fighter aircraft in the battle of Hanoi of 1972 but unable to break thru Vietnamese air defense. My friend, thinking some few Indo second hand aircrafts could do the job is more than funny.