Vietnam dancing between US alliance and Chinese brotherhood: Global Times

[Rechoice]

That's why Chinese call Vietnamese 反骨仔.

Chinese people was lectured by Mao Zedong in Red Book that: " Betrayal is right " (in Vietnamese said: "Tạo phản có lý"). So Lin Piao was called "closest comrade of Mao" has been escaped from China to USSR when his coup is disclosed.

 

[Snomannen]

And this is what Chinese call each other.

He meant those traitors in Hong Kong are dogs, he didn't even particularly mean Hong Kong people

Chinese people was lectured by Mao Zedong in Red Book that: " Betrayal is right " (in Vietnamese said: "Tạo phản có lý"). So Lin Piao was called "closest comrade of Mao" has been escaped from China to USSR when his coup is disclosed.

造反 =/= Betrayal

 

[Rechoice]

He meant those traitors in Hong Kong are dogs, he didn't even particularly mean Hong Kong people



造反 =/= Betrayal

So Lin Piao 造反 against Mao Zedong, is right ?.

 

[Snomannen]

So Lin Piao 造反 against Mao Zedong, is right ?.

Totally right

 

[Rechoice]

Totally right

but CPC supporters on forum don't agree with you, I think so.

 

[Viet]

It means betrayer. 反 could mean betray, reverse, and opposite direction , it has many meanings, 骨 here means bones behind the head, 仔 means person. We can judge a person whether he is a betrayer by checking the back of his head.

Viet, you still refuse to answer my question, how is the warefare in Vietnam?

alright. you seem to be a reasonable member, so I will try to answer your question. how good or bad is Vietnam´s warfare? It is up to you to agree or disagree.

most Chinese posters here brag about the superiority of China military over possible opponents, for instance Vietnam.
no doubt, PLA has more personnel, missiles, warships and jets, money, etc... than Vietnam. So they automatically assume China will win the next war against Vietnam.

some Chinese even believe the PLA can defeat our navy and airforce within a day. Or PLA winning against the Japanese would take a bit longer.

Well, if you think so your next defeat is certain. underestimating your enemy is a dead sin.

to win a war is not about how many weapons and personnel one party has. it is more. it is not only about the number, but also the quality. Soft things come into the equation:

overall strategy, battle tactic, fighting skill of soldiers, combat experience, braveness, correctly assessment of the strength of your enemy and your own weakness, disciplin, gathering of enemy information, self confidence, etc...what you need is all of them combined. You need friends and aliies, too, especially if you are much smaller and weaker than your enemy.

So you can understand how it is possible for a small country as Vietnam with just few population to win against some countries of much larger than ourselves:

Kingdom of Champa
Kingdom of Khmer
Kingdom of Siam
Khmer Rouge Cambodia
Mongols Empire
France
America
China (the Han, Song, Yuan, Ming, Qing, Deng)

Especially the victories against the latter 4, when they were at the height of power.

Not to mention also, we had military clashes with the British, Germans, Australians, S Koreans, Japanese, New Zealands, Laos, Thai, North Africans in the first and second indochina wars. We don´t seek war, but never back down.

 

[BoQ77]

Hell lots of BS in this thread. Soviet union instigated Vietnamese provoking and hating China, its the truth. Vietnam and China used to be brother countries before China and Russia came at loggerheads.

Vietnam choosed to side with Soviet Union instead of China.

To put it simple, Vietnam betrayed China for gaining interests from USSR.

@wanglaokan : that is the most hurt history between us, we are the small country, we do not want to face any big power.
Your leaders at the time ( 1970s ) thought wrong thing about Vietnam.
Vietnam never make hurt to China - the supporter for Vietnam during the war.

Vietnam signed the Treaty with USSR with hope USSR could protect Vietnam like the way USA protect Phillipines against threats from China nowadays.
We never consider ourselves as "little emperor" when sign that Treaty.

Today, you see we could sign the Treaty with China, together with USA, with Russia, India ... it's not discrepancy ...
It doesn't mean any betrayal ... the problem is from what you understand for "betrayal"

 

[Viet]

A slang for traitor~ Indeed you can use this word to describe Chinese as well based on your position~

as I said some times you are a wise man. traitor is dependent on from where you look on.

Well nobody knows since the story is still being written.
Carthage as an ancient country had one of the saddest ending ever. I cried while I was reading the history of the 3rd Punic War when I was a kid~
And Carthage wasn't an empire (was it?)

this is Carthage and its dependencies in 264 BC. I would say it was an empire based upon its size at that time. But perhaps you are right, the Roman victories over Carthage decided the fate of the Carthageans at the end of the day.

 

[NiceGuy]

Viet, you still refuse to answer my question, how is the warefare in Vietnam?

U can read the history during VN-China war , even Mr. Deng admit that ur men CAN NOT do the same. Thats why US never think abt war with VN again when US still sniff at ur poor trained, low morale PLA and keep occupying ur Taiwan.
.........................
Translate from Chinese's site
Vietnamese agents dare attack the army: senior military infuriated!

admin on January 20, 2011 in Military World | No Comments »
April 1984, the border of Yunnan army recaptured the old Hill, who rode Thread Yin and other positions, start into the defense.

The local terrain, high and low drop large, so the Vietnamese troops to use firearms is the most important mortar. Vietnamese troops often use the terrain to create false targets, false launch point, induce a waste of our army shells. So our military reported the destruction of the mortar has more than the number of enemy equipment, but the enemy continued to fire the army.

Our military personnel are often sent to bring artillery reconnaissance and observation equipment into an enemy communications behind the right direction for my cannon group goals, and achieved some results, but the artillery reconnaissance personnel at great risk. After our troops from the United Kingdom [Germany] imports a "Xin Bolin" emplacement detection radar (current price for ten million dollars) to deploy to the front.

"Xin Bolin" (Cymbeline) since the 20th century, mid 70s in the UK and German armies, the detection of 81 mm mortar range of up to 10 kilometers, on a detection range of 120-mm mortar up to 14 km . By detecting enemy mortar and to calculate the trajectory, we can accurately determine the location of the enemy mortar position to lead our army artillery to counter and hit the Vietnamese troops was very embarrassed.
.............

Evening of 4 July 1984 23 am, the Vietnamese troops of 406 battalion 821 Secret Mission 7 with a row of elevation points from the 1134 side saddle sneaked into my territory and then, point by point to observation point by point the way forward on the road before dawn on the 5th to the scheduled meeting place - a cave hidden white pyroxenite. 5, hostile white Shiyan, various positions in a close observation of the arrival day and night. At 0:30 on the 6th or so, in addition to a group of white remain as alert and take place inside the cave, Shiyan task, I compiled four group secret enemy approach the target area, were a group of 160 mortar attack on army positions and 41 Teachers 122 Group 9 with three rows. The other two groups from the left-right attack on Kunming Military Region I (now incorporated into the Chengdu Military Region) artillery battalion reconnaissance apparatus, "Xin Bolin" radar position. 2:30, the enemy opened fire at the same time, 2:40 end of the operation, killed 10 people and injured 49 people, the enemy got killed 1 person and injured 10 people.
..............
The enemy sabotage actions in terms of combat readiness, tactical means or the use of weapons of view, can be termed a classic special operations, sabotage enemy when using only grenades, directional mines, rockets and plastic explosives man and other explosive weapons not only my staff and technical equipment to cause greater damage, but also covert attempts to combat, army personnel positions until the 6th day of the explosion I still thought just it's enemy shelling to our radar
.........
The fighting, the military high evaded. Deng position: their agents can come in, why can not our scouts in the past? Thus, there is a more than five years on a secret reconnaissance round of fighting.
After the completion of the enemy attack, the attack group retreated to the white line along the original cave, Shiyan, slight casualties treated on the same day before 6 pm outside the original infiltration routes withdrawn.

Deng position: their agents(sapper) can come in, why our scouts(sapper) can not ?

https://defence.pk/threads/can-indonesia-lead-asean.290099/page-10

 

[Edison Chen]

alright. you seem to be a reasonable member, so I will try to answer your question. how good or bad is Vietnam´s warfare? It is up to you to agree or disagree.

most Chinese posters here brag about the superiority of China military over possible opponents, for instance Vietnam.
no doubt, PLA has more personnel, missiles, warships and jets, money, etc... than Vietnam. So they automatically assume China will win the next war against Vietnam.

some Chinese even believe the PLA can defeat our navy and airforce within a day. Or PLA winning against the Japanese would take a bit longer.

Well, if you think so your next defeat is certain. underestimating your enemy is a dead sin.

to win a war is not about how many weapons and personnel one party has. it is more. it is not only about the number, but also the quality. Soft things come into the equation:

overall strategy, battle tactic, fighting skill of soldiers, combat experience, braveness, correctly assessment of the strength of your enemy and your own weakness, disciplin, gathering of enemy information, self confidence, etc...what you need is all of them combined. You need friends and aliies, too, especially if you are much smaller and weaker than your enemy.

So you can understand how it is possible for a small country as Vietnam with just few population to win against some countries of much larger than ourselves:

Kingdom of Champa
Kingdom of Khmer
Kingdom of Siam
Khmer Rouge Cambodia
Mongols Empire
France
America
China (the Han, Song, Yuan, Ming, Qing, Deng)

Especially the victories against the latter 4, when they were at the height of power.

Not to mention also, we had military clashes with the British, Germans, Australians, S Koreans, Japanese, New Zealands, Laos, Thai, North Africans in the first and second indochina wars. We don´t seek war, but never back down.

As for China ancient dynasty, you are too far away from our central government. Most people are unwilling to go there, degraded officials were always sent to south near Vietnam. So we don't need to conquer Vietnam. Not sure about Han, but Song was fighting against north empires like Jurchen Jin, Liao and Mongols, so you were safe at that time because of China was a barrier for you. Song was never truly fighting with you. Deng? OMG...Wrong classification, not a dynasty.

 

[Snomannen]

but CPC supporters on forum don't agree with you, I think so.

There are shxts in the whole CCP, MAo is one of them.

as I said some times you are a wise man. traitor is dependent on from where you look on.


this is Carthage and its dependencies in 264 BC. I would say it was an empire based upon its size at that time. But perhaps you are right, the Roman victories over Carthage decided the fate of the Carthageans at the end of the day.

It is actually a republic, they didn't have a King~
They fought to the last man and last rock, they didn't even have weapons during the last 3rd War (the Romans took all the weapons and eldest sons). But still they can fought against those full armed Romans for 3 years under forlornness. Such tragedy.

 

[Viet]

As for China ancient dynasty, you are too far away from our central government. Most people are unwilling to go there, degraded officials were always sent to south near Vietnam. So we don't need to conquer Vietnam. Not sure about Han, but Song was fighting against north empires like Jurchen Jin, Liao and Mongols, so you were safe at that time because of China was a barrier for you. Song was never truly fighting with you.
Deng? OMG...Wrong classification, not a dynasty.

you mean we had luck as VN is far from Beijing? lol
I hope that luck continues.

...I am figuring out what is needed to win a war as you asked me. Let take the Thai army for instance.
the Thai army has more money to spend and more modern weapons than Vietnam. Will the Thai win the war if theoretically it comes to a war between both countries?

of course not. The Thai will end up as loser, as usual.

 

[Mr Second]

alright. you seem to be a reasonable member, so I will try to answer your question. how good or bad is Vietnam´s warfare? It is up to you to agree or disagree.

most Chinese posters here brag about the superiority of China military over possible opponents, for instance Vietnam.
no doubt, PLA has more personnel, missiles, warships and jets, money, etc... than Vietnam. So they automatically assume China will win the next war against Vietnam.

some Chinese even believe the PLA can defeat our navy and airforce within a day. Or PLA winning against the Japanese would take a bit longer.

Well, if you think so your next defeat is certain. underestimating your enemy is a dead sin.

to win a war is not about how many weapons and personnel one party has. it is more. it is not only about the number, but also the quality. Soft things come into the equation:

overall strategy, battle tactic, fighting skill of soldiers, combat experience, braveness, correctly assessment of the strength of your enemy and your own weakness, disciplin, gathering of enemy information, self confidence, etc...what you need is all of them combined. You need friends and aliies, too, especially if you are much smaller and weaker than your enemy.

So you can understand how it is possible for a small country as Vietnam with just few population to win against some countries of much larger than ourselves:

Kingdom of Champa
Kingdom of Khmer
Kingdom of Siam
Khmer Rouge Cambodia
Mongols Empire
France
America
China (the Han, Song, Yuan, Ming, Qing, Deng)

Especially the victories against the latter 4, when they were at the height of power.

Not to mention also, we had military clashes with the British, Germans, Australians, S Koreans, Japanese, New Zealands, Laos, Thai, North Africans in the first and second indochina wars. We don´t seek war, but never back down.

Hey, dont regard self so high. Beat France and USA? Who gave Vietnam AK47 and Type 56 rifle? Who gave Vietnam T54 and Type 59 tank? Who gave Vietnam those Heavy howitzers? Who trained Ho Chi Minh and other Vietnam generals? Dare you say Vietnam can beat USA or France without help? Beat China(Han, Song, Ming, Qing, Deng)? So why Vietnam still was Chinas subsidiary country before Franch coming? BTW, who defeated Franch navy when they first time came Vietnam? Chinese pirates! The beginning of Vietnam navy was made up with Chinese pirates. I really dont know why you guys Always want to talk about Deng. China now is not China in 1979, whatever her Power or attitude to the whold World. Is there meanful to talk about 1979 again? Meanless! Being China's neighbour is Vietnam's fate, nothing can change, whatever you guys admit or not, it is truth! Stay low key ok. Maybe now USA still have some effect in SCS, but what about after 10yrs, 20 yrs or 30 yrs? Really stupid to talk these things. BTW, it seems you have German pass, if you consider yourself as German, so dont thing too much about these things ok? War in SCS? Impossible and stupid.

 

[Mr Second]

you mean we had luck as VN is far from Beijing? lol
I hope that luck continues.

...I am figuring out what is needed to win a war as you asked me. Let take the Thai army for instance.
the Thai army has more money to spend and more modern weapons than Vietnam. Will the Thai win the war if theoretically it comes to a war between both countries?

of course not. The Thai will end up as loser, as usual.

I do recommend you to talk about two countries's cooperation, whatever on economy, culture, military as well. Everytime when Ho Chi Minh came China ask for support, Mao always said 600 million Chinese are Vietnam's brother, 9600 thousand km2 land is Vietnam's strong rear. Time changes now, but cooperation is still on. You see how many Vietnamese live and study in China. Everytime has an opposite opinion when Chinese members here say something, whatever their opinions are right or wrong! Whatever China support, you guys will opposite, whatever China opposite, you guys will support? Even not thinking that is right or not? China and Vietnam have a very big market on cooperation, and both sides have the same social problem. Someone say China army is corruption, but how about Vietnam army? Very Clean? Those countries who follows China cultrue all have corruption problem, maybe Japan do well on that, but using a Chinese proverb to describe China and Vietnam(半瓶子醋乱晃荡). Not wise to talk those stupid topic.

 

[gambit]

This article glossed over what I feel is the main reason for Vietnam's reluctance to pick a side.

Under US hegemony, the SCS islands will go to the pinoys. The pinoys have been the loyal white man's burden for 5 centuries, so they have to be rewarded for it. If the pinoys controlled all the islands, they would open up brothels on all the islands and invite US servicemen to come and be serviced by hordes of filipino women, which will provide substantial revenue for the pinoy government. I can't imagine the other claimants (China, RoC, Vietnam, Malaysia) would do that since it's so debasing and shameful, which leaves the US government no incentive to see the islands ccontrolled by anyone else. But a balance of power in the SCS means Vietnam at least has a chance to grab some.

So if the US is going to be malevolent to Viet Nam, I guess your position is that China is going to be benevolent?

An alliance with the US is going to open all kinds of benefits for Viet Nam, from economic to military to social. Other US allies in the region is going to join in as well. If those islands are going to be under dispute, the US will make sure those disputes will be out of China's greedy hands. The US have no problems letting the Viets and the Phis argue amongst themselves for the islands. Viet Nam will lose in any relationship with China.