Vietnam builds military muscle to face China

[Rechoice]

Vietnamese sub-marine officers and marines staffs are traing in Russia now. They welcomed PM Nguen Tan Dung when he visited Russia.

Our Technician staff for sub-marines is trained in Russia now.

 

[William Hung]

USSR and Vietnam were treaty bound and China and Cambodia were not, so we had no treaty responsibility to intervene. and Vietnam suffered much more casualties than China, both military personnel and civilians, the short war entirely went on in Vietnam soil and the whole North Vietnam was destroyed in 2 weeks while Chinese side has no damage at all where people still lived a normal life. China achieved all her strategic goals and Vietnam lost everything.

The whole North Vietnam got destroyed and Vietnam lost everything? lol I’m not sure if this is a product of Ah Q power or strong propaganda. Too funny.

Again, why would the USSR need to intervene when your PLA decided to withdraw only after a few weeks, then mined its own border region, and Vietnam continuing to occupy Cambodia for the next 10 years? Only an Ah Q mind could spin that around as a victory for China and a humiliation for the USSR.

 

[beijingwalker]

The whole North Vietnam got destroyed and Vietnam lost everything? lol I’m not sure if this is a product of Ah Q power or strong propaganda. Too funny.

Check Wikipedia and see the facts and figures.
China used the war to project herself to become a rich and powerful country now, look at where China and Vietnam's places then and now and you can see a clear winner. If there is an Ah Q, it's Vietnam, comparing to China with their country itself shows every bit of it.

 

[William Hung]

Check Wikipedia and see the facts and figures.
China used the war to project herself to become a rich and powerful country now, look at where China and Vietnam's places then and now and you can see a clear winner. If there is an Ah Q, it's Vietnam, comparing to China with their country itself shows every bit of it.

I think you need to go to a Daoshi and ask him to exorcise the Ah Q spirit from you.

 

[beijingwalker]

I think you need to go to a Daoshi and ask him to exorcise the Ah Q spirit from you.

same to you

 

[Genesis]

So what you're alluding to is that in the end pragmatism will win the day, yes? War is a foregone conclusion.

Pragmatism always rules, in nations such as China and Vietnam. Our leader rotation system guarantees that. Democracy can't afford to lose as to not lose credibility as a party, one person dictatorship sometimes has too much PERSONAL stake, and ego that it blinds them.

China and Vietnam needs continue survival, and with only one party, it faces no elections. While also is capable of stopping any one person from going to far, as the party always cleanse those that go too far.

Okay, if my figures are unrealistic, then what would a realistic figure be then?

If China really cannot sustain large casualty numbers, which I believe to be the case. China will use American's lead for lives strategy. Bombarding all targets until surrender is all but inevitable.

This however is a last ditch strategy, due to the high human cost, on the other side. A modern nation cannot inflict that type of casualty and escape without international condemnation. As a nation deep in the international economic community, that is as good as suicide.


At most it wouldn't be more than 5,000 men combined, if that. Vietnam needs enough reasons to surrender, but not surrender, it cannot be in a place that it must keep going. China wants to give Vietnam that opportunity. So Vietnam can say it was bullied, but not enough for it to fight back.

Had Japan stopped after Manchuria victory, Japan may have been in a great place to grow. It got impatient and left the nationalists no choice. A smart nation always gives the other a choice.

China just need to secure the border, destroy Vietnamese navy and capture the islands. Stopping Vietnam's ability to wage war on the seas, and it's all but over, even if there is no formal agreement until a few years down the line. So even 5,000 is too many lives.

 

[beijingwalker]

China can always use the same old strategy, keeps Vietnamese busy and poor, devastate their economy while developing China fast and overtaking other countries to become the top economy in the world.

 

[William Hung]

same to you

Then let us go together up the mountain to look for a Daoshi. Here, take my hand, we can skip up the mountain together like this:

 

[Genesis]

You humiliated the USSR by showing that it can’t defend its ally?

Why would the USSR need to intervene when thousands of the PLA soldiers got slaughtered within weeks, after which the whole PLA decided to withdraw its entire force from Vietnam? If Vietnam was occupied for 10 years, then yes, I would have ridiculed the USSR. But that was not the case, your PLA had already decided to withdraw only after a few weeks.

The USSR was indeed humiliated. Chinese rapprochement with the US made sure USSR made no sudden moves. It was shown as severely weakened at that point. No surprise that 10 years later, the USSR ceased to exist.

Had this been 1960s, it would not have been that way.

HOWEVER.

In fact, it was China that wasn’t able to defend its Cambodian ally, when it just “stood by” and watch its ally Cambodia being occupied for the next 10 years after your “spiritual victory”, while the PLA only lasted a few weeks in VN. Now you are using your Ah Q power to spin it around and claim that its the USSR that got “humiliated” for not being able to defend its Viet ally. lol

And here is another funny fact: after the PLA withdrew back to China, it decided to mine its own border (which now threaten your own civilians). That says it all.

PLA to clear mines along China-Vietnam border - Global Times

China was also defeated, Vietnam just came off it's American war, and is probably the strongest outside of NATO and USSR.

Though truth be told, nobody really "won" that one. Vietnam didn't gain anything from the war. Militarily, it is a victory, but strategically, it was a lose. Though it was both militarily and strategically a lose for China.

 

[Place Of Space]

Check Wikipedia and see the facts and figures.
China used the war to project herself to become a rich and powerful country now, look at where China and Vietnam's places then and now and you can see a clear winner. If there is an Ah Q, it's Vietnam, comparing to China with their country itself shows every bit of it.

No, man, admit it, China lost a lot in the war, definitely!!!!
1. only 10 years ago, in 1950's-1970's, China and Vietnam was still ally during the America-Vietnam war. 10 years later they became enemy, it's a lost.
2. During the America-Vietnam war, China spent HUGE money, materials and deployed military persons in Vietnam, when Vietnam-China break up, all those expenditure were wasted. China buy an enemy, it's a lost.
3. The America and France use China-Vietnam war to wash white their evil in Vietnam. It's a lost.

 

[Genesis]

i had not wanted to divert to a different topic of whether or not "winning" by whatever metric is easy or possible. but just wanted to say his casualty figures are completely unrealistic.

well yea, that was my point as well. There is no way, either government would allow the casualties to go that far. That's a noob assessment that takes not even a hint of reality into consideration.

 

[Aepsilons]

No, man, admit it, China lost a lot in the war, definitely!!!!
1. only 10 years ago, in 1950's-1970's, China and Vietnam was still ally during the America-Vietnam war. 10 years later they became enemy, it's a lost.
2. During the America-Vietnam war, China spent HUGE money, materials and deployed military persons in Vietnam, when Vietnam-China break up, all those expenditure were wasted. China buy an enemy, it's a lost.
3. The America and France use China-Vietnam war to wash white their evil in Vietnam. It's a lost.

Hmm, are you Taiwanese? You sound like a Kuomintang supporter right now.

 

[Rechoice]

Because Vietnam failed to annex Cambodia, so you stated the reason ( of invasion Cambodia ) this way. But the truth is not what you state.
Cambodia was part of Vietnam in some historical period, at least a closed ally or vassal kingdom. I can understand why Vietnam wanted to annex Cambodia. The problem was, when coming into 1970's, the era had changed, Vietnam already hadn't the ability to control or divide the area, politics by itself. Regardless of western international law, Vietnam and Cambodia were two parallel parts of France, in this case, Vietnam lacked the law supports to annex Cambodia. That's the reason.

There is propaganda of China.

1945 when Vietnam regained independence, Ho Chi Ming is focued on Vietnam. He has released Indo China communist party. In Vietnam war Vietnamese has fought counter France new colonial army in both Laos and Cambodia to help them regain independence same to Vietnam.

After 1975, Vietnam tried get neutral position in Sino-Soviets split. Both Laos and Cambodia could have good relation with China in same way what Vietnam does.

Regretly, China has his own strategy what China signed with USA in Shanghai in 1972, to counter Soviet Union so called "hegemony" in Shanghai statement.

China helped Pol Pot with weapon and military advisers to attack Vietnam. In fact there is true intention of China to set up hegemony of China on Indochina pennisulla and south East Asia. There is reason for Sino-Vietnam war and tension here in SCS.

 

[Aepsilons]

Anyways, let's focus on the subject matter and analyze Vietnam's new military acquisitions, shall we?

 

[Rechoice]

China can always use the same old strategy, keeps Vietnamese busy and poor, devastate their economy while developing China fast and overtaking other countries to become the top economy in the world.

Yes, it is true mentality of China. We do know it as well from long time ago.

Anyways, let's focus on the subject matter and analyze Vietnam's new military acquisitions, shall we?

The fift sub of Vietnam Navy with the name "Da Nang" is on road to Vietnam.