Vaccines, not spy planes: U.S. misfires in Southeast Asia

[Pandora]

Hey, US is fighting back against China here in my country, it's a fact.

Good for you

 

[Indos]

You are probably overestimating Soeharto popularity, if he is so strong and popular why did he fall anyway. Many Indonesia just had enough of his rule and corruption and if you don't think so this just means you are in the minority.

Once again, you fail to see my points here, I though Chinese have higher IQ score in Asia. If we hate him when he was still staying in power, particularly after 1995 where Indonesia wants more political freedom after we can achieve political stability and fast economic development for the last 2 decades, doesnt necessarily suggest that we are going to hate him forever. Any way it is also about political system preference, not personality thing.

I am going to make it clearer for you. Indonesian elites and people are wise, the fact that we bring down Soeharto in 1998 doesnt mean we are going to hate him after he voluntarily step down. You can see Bashar Al-Assad, Gaddafy dont want to step down and it make the nation get destroyed. Hosni Mubarak also didnt want to step down and it make the military there made an action to bring him down which will just strengthen military role in the country in which then it can be proved by another military intervention to bring Mursy down from power and eliminate their democracy

Soeharto also has avoided Indonesian Communist to have 1 million strong force that can lead to civil war and possibly break out of Indonesia. We also appreciate what he has done to bring economic development and political stability, which is in contrast of what Soekarno did on those two parameters.

Indonesian doesnt put him on trial like Egyptian, Sundanese do to their dictator. There is no big demonstration to oppose the political decision not to trial Soeharto. It gives a clear clue about the fact that Indonesian people still respect Soeharto regardless, any way we have had our democracy back, so why do we need to hate him forever ? People can forgive. Many people also still respect Soekarno either although he almost brought disaster due to his support to let Communist live in Indonesia.

 

[HeyPaula1963]

Everything they talk about are excues or the tip of the iceberg, no matter what about Soeharto, Soekarno, Communist, CIA, Democracy. Their criminal governments and army had only one goal: finish state-ism of Dutch heritage and establish nationalism of Indon. For this goal, they do anything inhuman. Unfortunately they targeted at Chinese and Chinese paid all price for this colonial islands country's new era.

You have to understand more about western-aligned Indonesian Army and Indonesian Communist Party tension in 60s, which is an interesting history of Cold War.

 

[Indos]

Indonesia should take note of how US is treating India after several strategic Military agreements. Indonesia is in the best position to be neutral. Also lets not forget the fact that US is a declining global power with ever reducing economic clout on the other hand china is willing to make Multi billion dollar investment. US on the other hand has no interests other than causing unrest in Indo Pacific region which is in the interest on US rather than stability.

Indonesia is in neutral position of course. Malaysia for instant has given permanent refueling right for US spy planes while Indonesia reject it. Not to mention US warship challenging Chinese CCG in Malaysia EEZ some time ago in SCS which must be due to Malaysian permission and maybe request.

Any way Indonesia-US strategic partnership is getting deep with the help from US to give us 60 billion US repo facility that we can use to stabilize Rupiah. It is our Central Bank request after huge Rupiah plunge in the beginning of Covid 19 pandemic in the country. This way we dont need to get help from IMF that is not politically popular here.

Bank Indonesia strikes $60b repo facility deal with US Fed as forex reserves drop

“This will be the second line of defense other than bilateral currency swaps in case we need dollar liquidity,” BI Governor Perry Warjiyo said.

www.thejakartapost.com

 

[Place Of Space]

You have to understand more about western-aligned Indonesian Army and Indonesian Communist Party tension in 60s, which is an interesting history of Cold War.

This shows more shamless mentality. You understand how communism went to dutch colony in the beginning. The indon independence met huge troubles, dutch refused to give up at least Papua, Borneo etc. The west supported dutch position. Your weak military can't defeat dutch. So you broung USSR in and got a lot of weapons from them. China government make statement very early ( I don't remember the origin text ) Chinese ethnic in Indonesia should obey to their local country and government. Overseas Chinese don't like to attend the local countries' politics, I think this is a common sense for all world. Your government is developing communism, of course some local Chinese are pro communism. Don't forget a lot of Chinese joined the communist army to fight against Dutch for the country in the beginning.
When the America was afraid to lose the competition in the area to USSR, it changed attitude and restricted dutch claims. Then the military coup happened, your fking criminal government label all Chinese as communist and oppress them creully from migration freedom, status, language heritage, to politcal postion, life safety, even forced them to change family name. I never heard a more evil group as low as indons. This is the first price Chinese paid for your country forcely.
You can make communism as execues. It has nothing to do with Communist in 1990's, you still target at Chinese. Everytime you fucking country can't move on and have social contradict, you will turn all spearpoint onto Chinese. I tell you the blood reality, since all you have done, Chinese will never assimilated into your country except you genocide them all.

 

[HeyPaula1963]

This shows more shamless mentality. You understand how communism went to dutch colony in the beginning. The indon independence met huge troubles, dutch refused to give up at least Papua, Borneo etc. The west supported dutch position. Your weak military can't defeat dutch. So you broung USSR in and got a lot of weapons from them. China government make statement very early ( I don't remember the origin text ) Chinese ethnic in Indonesia should obey to their local country and government. Overseas Chinese don't like to attend the local countries' politics, I think this is a common sense for all world. Your government is developing communism, of course some local Chinese are pro communism. Don't forget a lot of Chinese joined the communist army to fight against Dutch for the country in the beginning.
When the America was afraid to lose the competition in the area to USSR, it changed attitude and restricted dutch claims. Then the military coup happened, your fking criminal government label all Chinese as communist and oppress them creully from migration freedom, status, language heritage, to politcal postion, life safety, even forced them to change family name. I never heard a more evil group as low as indons. This is the first price Chinese paid for your country forcely.
You can make communism as execues. It has nothing to do with Communist in 1990's, you still target at Chinese. Everytime you fucking country can't move on and have social contradict, you will turn all spearpoint onto Chinese. I tell you the blood reality, since all you have done, Chinese will never assimilated into your country except you genocide them all.

Not all Chindo (Chinese Indonesian) were labeled as communist as you said. You have to know that, Chindo were also exist as a counter communist force in 60s like Soe Hok Gie, Wanandi Brothers, and others. Yeah, there were times when the chinese people with chinese name were forced to change their name with Indigenous name. But, now is different, there are no restrictions at all about Chinese culture. And maybe now you see many Indonesian Indigenous people are anti-chinese, don't mind them, many of them are just the bunch of far-right Islamists that their brains are rotten eaten by disinformations. And that xenophobia phenomenons are not just exist here in Indonesia in this time, it's a global phenomenon of rising number of far-right across the globe.

 

[Asteric]

The indon independence met huge troubles, dutch refused to give up at least Papua, Borneo etc. The west supported dutch position. Your weak military can't defeat dutch. So you broung USSR in and got a lot of weapons from them. China government make statement very early ( I don't remember the origin text ) Chinese ethnic in Indonesia should obey to their local country and government.

You must know that indo is island country. Its not mainland easy to mobilize infantry unit.

 

[Gundala]

This shows more shamless mentality. You understand how communism went to dutch colony in the beginning. The indon independence met huge troubles, dutch refused to give up at least Papua, Borneo etc. The west supported dutch position. Your weak military can't defeat dutch. So you broung USSR in and got a lot of weapons from them. China government make statement very early ( I don't remember the origin text ) Chinese ethnic in Indonesia should obey to their local country and government. Overseas Chinese don't like to attend the local countries' politics, I think this is a common sense for all world. Your government is developing communism, of course some local Chinese are pro communism. Don't forget a lot of Chinese joined the communist army to fight against Dutch for the country in the beginning.
When the America was afraid to lose the competition in the area to USSR, it changed attitude and restricted dutch claims. Then the military coup happened, your fking criminal government label all Chinese as communist and oppress them creully from migration freedom, status, language heritage, to politcal postion, life safety, even forced them to change family name. I never heard a more evil group as low as indons. This is the first price Chinese paid for your country forcely.
You can make communism as execues. It has nothing to do with Communist in 1990's, you still target at Chinese. Everytime you fucking country can't move on and have social contradict, you will turn all spearpoint onto Chinese. I tell you the blood reality, since all you have done, Chinese will never assimilated into your country except you genocide them all.

Well the history about ethnic Chinese repression is not something to be proud of. Its a complex matter just like what US has with their black citizen. After 1998 things are getting better from the Govt part and the people itself, but its an on going process.

Under President Megawati Soekarno Putri Chinese new year was put as national holiday, its a big step compare to before 1998 where even some Chinese citizen was not allowed to do that in some area. Govt also make regulation to Indonesian Chinese to get their proper citizenship paperwork easier under the new law which in some parts resurecting and acknowlding their rights. Jakarta Governor election in 2017 between Ahok (Basuki Cahya Purnama/Indonesian Chinese) vs Anies Baswedan show that Ahok got 42.04% vote. Tho he lost but it showed that over 4.2 Million from 10 million of Jakarta's people vote for him. Clearly we are making a good progress.

Last but not least let me introduce you to Laksamana Muda (Rear Admiral/2 stars) John Lie. His full name is John Lie Tjeng Tjoan / John Lie Ceng Coan. He is one of the Indonesian Navy National Hero,and one of Indonesia Navy Ship is named after him (KRI John Lie). What we see in the news sometime didnt represent the actual things on the ground. I wrote this lengthy one just to give different perspective for you to see.

*Picture from www.merdeka.com

 

[Place Of Space]

Well the history about ethnic Chinese repression is not something to be proud of. Its a complex matter just like what US has with their black citizen. After 1998 things are getting better from the Govt part and the people itself, but its an on going process.

Under President Megawati Soekarno Putri Chinese new year was put as national holiday, its a big step compare to before 1998 where even some Chinese citizen was not allowed to do that in some area. Govt also make regulation to Indonesian Chinese to get their proper citizenship paperwork easier under the new law which in some parts resurecting and acknowlding their rights. Jakarta Governor election in 2017 between Ahok (Basuki Cahya Purnama/Indonesian Chinese) vs Anies Baswedan show that Ahok got 42.04% vote. Tho he lost but it showed that over 4.2 Million from 10 million of Jakarta's people vote for him. Clearly we are making a good progress.

Last but not least let me introduce you to Laksamana Muda (Rear Admiral/2 stars) John Lie. His full name is John Lie Tjeng Tjoan / John Lie Ceng Coan. He is one of the Indonesian Navy National Hero,and one of Indonesia Navy Ship is named after him (KRI John Lie). What we see in the news sometime didnt represent the actual things on the ground. I wrote this lengthy one just to give different perspective for you to see.

View attachment 685280


*Picture from www.merdeka.com

Thanks for the information, you are the promising future of Indonesia.

 

[8888888888888]

Once again, you fail to see my points here, I though Chinese have higher IQ score in Asia. If we hate him when he was still staying in power, particularly after 1995 where Indonesia wants more political freedom after we can achieve political stability and fast economic development for the last 2 decades, doesnt necessarily suggest that we are going to hate him forever. Any way it is also about political system preference, not personality thing.

I am going to make it clearer for you. Indonesian elites and people are wise, the fact that we bring down Soeharto in 1998 doesnt mean we are going to hate him after he voluntarily step down. You can see Bashar Al-Assad, Gaddafy dont want to step down and it make the nation get destroyed. Hosni Mubarak also didnt want to step down and it make the military there made an action to bring him down which will just strengthen military role in the country in which then it can be proved by another military intervention to bring Mursy down from power and eliminate their democracy

Soeharto also has avoided Indonesian Communist to have 1 million strong force that can lead to civil war and possibly break out of Indonesia. We also appreciate what he has done to bring economic development and political stability, which is in contrast of what Soekarno did on those two parameters.

Indonesian doesnt put him on trial like Egyptian, Sundanese do to their dictator. There is no big demonstration to oppose the political decision not to trial Soeharto. It gives a clear clue about the fact that Indonesian people still respect Soeharto regardless, any way we have had our democracy back, so why do we need to hate him forever ? People can forgive. Many people also still respect Soekarno either although he almost brought disaster due to his support to let Communist live in Indonesia.

No, this just means your hate of communists means anything Soeharto did is good despite the fact that he cheated in the 1998 election finally had him removed from power.

 

[Indos]

No, this just means your hate of communists means anything Soeharto did is good despite the fact that he cheated in the 1998 election finally had him removed from power.

He always cheated election. He always won around 70-80 percent. Look, we dont have any sort of democracy under new order (Soeharto regime). The election during that period is a joke.