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Vaccines, not spy planes: U.S. misfires in Southeast Asia

Still on the coup subject, this one from the BRITISH sources (while Vincent Bevins in The Jakarta Method from the U.S. sources).

Decades-long article by The Independent (UK) yet still quite informative and offers lot of `new information' to readers about the fateful tragic history of this victimized nation and its inhabitants!

* * * * *


HOW WE DESTROYED SUKARNO

Foreign Office `dirty tricks' helped overthrow Indonesia's President Sukarno in 1966. Over the next 30 years, half a million people died.

[Note: 500,000 was much a conservative figure!]

In autumn 1965, Norman Reddaway, a lean and erudite rising star of the Foreign Office, was briefed for a special mission. The British Ambassador to Indonesia, Sir Andrew Gilchrist, had just visited London for discussions with the head of the Foreign Office, Joe Garner. Covert operations to undermine Sukarno, the troublesome and independently minded President of Indonesia, were not going well. Garner was persuaded to send Reddaway, the FO's propaganda expert, to Indonesia. His task: to take on anti-Sukarno propaganda operations run by the Foreign Office and M16. Garner gave Reddaway pounds 100,000 in cash "to do anything I could do to get rid of Sukarno", he says.

The first indication of British interest in removing Sukarno appears in a CIA memorandum of 1962. Prime Minister Macmillan and President Kennedy agreed to "liquidate President Sukarno, depending on the situation and available opportunities".

Hostility to Sukarno was intensified by Indonesian objections to the Malaysian Federation. Sukarno complained the project was “a neo-colonial plot, pointing out that the Federation was a project for Malayan expansionism and continuing British influence in the region.”

In 1963 his objections crystallised in his policy of Konfrontasi, a breaking off of all relations with Malaysia, soon coupled with low-level military intervention. A protracted border war began along the 700-mile-long (app. 1,126 km) front in Borneo.

According to Foreign Office sources the decision to get rid of Sukarno had been taken by Macmillan's Conservative government and carried through during Wilson's 1964 Labour government. The Foreign Office had worked in conjunction with their American counterparts on a plan to oust the turbulent Sukarno. A covert operation and psychological warfare strategy was instigated, based at Phoenix Park, in Singapore, the British headquarters in the region. The M16 team kept close links with key elements in the Indonesian army through the British Embassy.

The Foreign Office's Information Research Department (IRD) also worked out of Phoenix Park, reinforcing the work of M16 and the military psychological warfare experts.

(…)

The discrediting of Sukarno was of fundamental importance. Sukarno remained a respected and popular leader against whom Suharto could not move openly until the conditions were right. The constant barrage of bad international coverage and Sukarno's plummeting political position fatally undermined him. On 10 March 1966, Sukarno was forced to sign over his powers to General Suharto. Now perceived as closely associated with the attempted coup and the PKI, Sukarno had been discredited to the point where the army felt able to act. The PKI was eliminated as a significant force and a pro-Western military dictatorship firmly established.

It was not long before Suharto quietly ended the inactive policy of Konfrontasi resulting in a swift improvement in Anglo-Indonesian relations, which continue to be close to this day.

From: `Britain's Secret Propaganda War 1948-77', by Paul Lashmar and James Oliver, to be published by Sutton on 7 December

Britain's Secret Propaganda War 1948-1977 by Paul Lashmar and James Oliver (1999) - book cover.png


[ … ]


~~~~

For way much deeper info of the British Foreign Policy Declassified, just follow
MARK CURTIS.

Mark Curtis is a former Research Fellow at the Royal Institute of International Affairs (Chatham House) and has been an Honorary Research Fellow at the University of Strathclyde and Visiting Research Fellow at the Institut Francais des Relations Internationales, Paris and the Deutsche Gesellschaft fur Auswartige Politik, Bonn.


The covert war in Indonesia, 1957-58

By Mark Curtis | February 12, 2007

An edited extract from:
Unpeople: Britain’s Secret Human Rights Abuses

Unpeople - Britain’s Secret Human Rights Abuses By Mark Curtis - cover.png


Indonesian president Sukarno’s nationalist domestic policies and a foreign policy of non-alignment were see as a direct threat to Washington and London. The latter were especially concerned about the growing popularity and influence of the Indonesian Communist party (PKI) on the Sukarno government, notably in recent elections where the PKI had increased its share of the popular vote. The Foreign Office, for example, viewed with ‘anxiety’ the ‘trend of events in Indonesia’ especially the ‘electoral results’ showing that the PKI ‘has grown in strength to a disquieting degree’.

British planners were also concerned about the Sukarno government’s recent take-over of Dutch commercial interests. The Foreign Office wrote that ‘clearly a serious blow has been struk [sic] at the confidence of all foreign concerns trading in and with Indonesia’. The latter ‘is a country with a vast population and great potential wealth, and one in which United Kingdom interests are by no means negligible’.

In late 1957 dissident colonels in the Indonesian army were leading a challenge to rule by Jakarta in the outlying provinces in the country. By the end of the year Jakarta’s authority did not spread much beyond the island of Java and the north eastern area of Sumatra; elsewhere, local commanders were in practice operating their provinces independently. In January 1958 a rebellion against the central government broke out in Sumatra and Celebes. The causes were described by the British ambassador in Indonesia as the desire to end the Indonesian government’s inefficient economic policy and a demand for more self-government for the richer provinces. He also noted that ‘anti-communism’ has been included in the aims of the rebels and ‘in order to attract Western support, it has been made to appear one of the main purposes of the rebellion’.

On 15 February, the rebels proclaimed in the city of Padang a Republic of Indonesia; following which the Jakarta government began military operations to crush the rebellion. By June the government had virtually succeeded, Padang had been recaptured and the dissidents, although still in control of large areas of Sumatra, were forced to resort to guerilla warfare. Their rebellion finally petered out and they eventually surrendered in 1961.

The US and Britain covertly supported this rebellion in its early phase, ideally wanting to see Sukarno overthrown, but if not then because of what Foreign Secretary Selwyn Lloyd understood as the rebels’ ‘nuisance value’. This meant using the rebellion to press the Jakarta government to adopt policies of London’s and Washington’s pleasing. Like the Yemenis, therefore, whose brutal civil war Britain covertly sponsored for nearly a decade knowing that their clients could not win but only destablise the central government, the Indonesians were used as tools by London and Washington. When their clients outlived their usefulness, as they did as soon as Jakarta had won the main war against them, London and Washington dropped their clients and re-engaged with Jakarta.

This was a US-led covert programme to which Britain leant important aid. The British files of this period are heavily censored but some light can be shed on the covert British role, while for the US role an excellent book by Audrey and George Kahin serves as a guide.

A prime mover in the British covert operation was Sir Robert Scott, Britain’s Commissioner General in Singapore. In December 1957, Scott lamented ‘the effects of the developing crisis in Indonesia in terms of dislocation of economic interests’ and that Indonesia ‘may pass under communist control’. Referring to the ‘anti-communist elements in Sumatra and the other outlying provinces’, he told the Foreign Office that:

‘I think the time has come to plan secretly with the Australians and Americans how best to give these elements the aid they need. This is a bold policy, carrying considerable risks… The action I am recommending will no doubt have little influence with President Soekarno. They are not designed to; I believe it should be one of our aims to bring about his downfall.’

[...]

 
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Granted, that is why we are not only buying from China. These imported vaccines are interim solutions until the locally produced vaccines are ready for distribution by mid next year.
No offense but Indonesia doesn’t have the technology. It’s not as easy as it seems. The most promising approach is creating a vaccine that clones the genetic code of coronavirus. A artificial virus that provokes immune response of human body. But that can bear unwanted consequences because the company can create a new monster from a labor. That’s reason why rich countries want to test unproven vaccines on poor population. I can understand though you want to access to chinese vaccines.
If you sleep on a street then a dirty mat is still a good sleeping ground.
 
No offense but Indonesia doesn’t have the technology. It’s not as easy as it seems. The most promising approach is creating a vaccine that clones the genetic code of coronavirus. A artificial virus that provokes immune response of human body. But that can bear unwanted consequences because the company can create a new monster from a labor. That’s reason why rich countries want to test unproven vaccines on poor population. I can understand though you want to access to chinese vaccines.
If you sleep on a street then a dirty mat is still a good sleeping ground.

Indonesia potential Covid 19 vaccine uses more modern and complex technique than vaccine being developed by Sinovac. Sinovac method is to weaken the virus, which is an old method.



What you need to know about Indonesia's vaccine development
  • Ardila Syakriah
    The Jakarta Post
Jakarta / Tue, August 4, 2020 / 03:58 pm


2020_07_30_101326_1596094865._large.jpg



As Indonesia struggles to contain the COVID-19 epidemic, the country, like many others, is pinning its hopes on vaccine development.

Indonesia is looking to secure access to candidate vaccines, with its diplomats and local companies seeking cooperation with producers such as Sinovac Biotech of China and Genexine Inc. of South Korea, as well as the Bill Gates-backed Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations (CEPI).

Meanwhile, for a longer-term, self-sufficient strategy, a national consortium under the Research and Technology Ministry is working on developing its own vaccine, helmed by the Eijkman Institute for Molecular Biology. The vaccine will be named after Indonesia's flag colors, Merah Putih, or red and white.


All of these attempts are progressing at different paces, while also offering various timelines, production targets and types of vaccines. But they are expected to complement each other, given the broad need to cover Indonesia's large population of some 270 million people.

How is the progress so far?

State-owned pharmaceutical company PT Bio Farma has partnered with Sinovac, with the former soon to be launching phase III clinical trials in humans of a Sinovac vaccine alongside Padjadjaran University (Unpad) in Bandung, West Java.

It is one of 26 candidate vaccines that are in clinical evaluation according to a compilation made by the World Health Organization (WHO) on July 31. There are 139 candidate vaccines in preclinical evaluation.


Indonesia is launching the phase III trials -- the last stage of clinical testing in humans during which the vaccine is given to thousands of people to confirm and expand results on safety and efficacy from phase I and II trials -- along with several countries like Brazil and Bangladesh.

Bio Farma and Unpad are now recruiting 1,620 volunteers -- all of whom must be healthy adults between the age of 18 and 59 years old with no history of having contracted COVID-19 -- to participate in the clinical trials.

The clinical trial research team leader, Unpad professor Kusnandi Rusmil, told The Jakarta Post that about 500 people had applied for the trials, which involve at least 30 doctors and 20 specialist doctors.

Bio Farma is also deliberating a contract with the Bill Gates-backed CEPI, with no decision yet made on the number of vaccines that it would “fill and finish” during the manufacturing process, Bio Farma's R&D project integration manager Neni Nurainy told the Post.

Read also: Indonesia teams up with global manufacturers in vaccine hunt

Meanwhile, homegrown health giant Kalbe Farma is cooperating with Genexine for the trials of Genexine’s DNA vaccine GX-19. Indonesia is expected to run phase II clinical trials for the potential vaccine in September or October, continuing from the phase I trials underway in South Korea until August.

As for the Merah Putih vaccine, Eijkman director Amin Soebandrio said his team was now entering the "critical" process that would "determine the success of the vaccine in the future".

He was referring to the process of producing recombinant proteins by isolating genes of the spike protein and nucleocapsid protein and inserting them into mammalian cells.

The team, comprising around 10 young researchers, is now waiting for the cells to reproduce the recombinant proteins, which might take two months, before isolating, purifying and testing the proteins on animals.

The team is making a vaccine specifically for the virus strain spread in Indonesia, which, according to Amin, has similarities to the strain circulating around Asia.

What are the timelines and production targets?

The Sinovac phase III clinical trials in Bandung are to run for six months.

Should the applicants pass the administrative and other preliminary procedures, the team will administer them with the first dose of the experimental vaccine or a placebo, and then a second dose of the vaccine 14 days later.

Kusnandi said the vaccine would be gradually given to all the subjects, estimating 25 subjects per day for five days a week at each of the six trial centers.

Read also: Indonesian COVID-19 vaccines to undergo strict human, animal testing

Bio Farma said it was expecting the preliminary results of the clinical trials to be submitted for emergency use authorization by the Indonesian Food and Drug Monitoring Agency (BPOM) by the first quarter of 2021.

The company said it would produce 40 million doses for the first batch of vaccine, but the number would increase gradually as the company aims to see its production capacity reach 250 million doses per year by the end of this year.

This vaccine must be injected twice to develop immunity.

The government, meanwhile, has given Eijkman 12 months starting from April to develop vaccine prototypes that have been tested on animals, to be given to Bio Farma for clinical trials. Bio Farma aims to mass-produce the vaccine by 2022 after earning approval from the BPOM.

The Merah Putih vaccine, Amin said, was expected to cover at least 50 percent of Indonesia's vaccine needs, given the country's large population.

What vaccine types will be offered?

The vaccines under development mentioned fall into different types.

The Sinovac vaccine is an inactivated virus vaccine, a traditional category of vaccines which consists of entire pathogens that have been killed with chemicals, heat or radiation. Hence, this type cannot cause diseases but still has antigens to elicit an immune response, experts said.

Kusnandi said the previous first two stages of trials showed a few minor side effects, such as swelling and pain in the injection area as well as fever. All volunteers in the phase III trials, therefore, would be insured so that they could receive free treatment if they were to develop complaints, he said.

The Genexine vaccine is a DNA vaccine which will also be administered twice. According to the WHO, this type of vaccine is a rather new invention that offers "potential advantages over traditional approaches", such as improved vaccine stability and the absence of any infectious agents.

The Merah Putih vaccine, meanwhile, is a recombinant vaccine. It is a type that "includes only the components, or antigens, that best stimulate the immune system" that can make vaccines safer and minimize side effects, according to the United States' National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.

https://www.thejakartapost.com/news...now-about-indonesias-vaccine-development.html
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While for the production, we have Biofarma that have produced vaccines for 149 countries.

PT Bio Farma (Persero) is an Indonesian state-owned enterprise based in Bandung and the only local vaccine manufacturer in Indonesia,[2] which produces vaccines and sera to support immunization in Indonesia and other countries.[3] Bio Farma vaccine produced vaccines against measles, polio, hepatitis B, and pentavalent vaccine.[2] Bio Farma vaccines have supplied vaccines to multiple countries through UNICEF, PAHO and other organizations.[4]


 
No offense but Indonesia doesn’t have the technology. It’s not as easy as it seems. The most promising approach is creating a vaccine that clones the genetic code of coronavirus. A artificial virus that provokes immune response of human body. But that can bear unwanted consequences because the company can create a new monster from a labor. That’s reason why rich countries want to test unproven vaccines on poor population. I can understand though you want to access to chinese vaccines.
If you sleep on a street then a dirty mat is still a good sleeping ground.
So Viet... whose vaccines are good according to your sound judgement since you keep on talking down the Chinese vaccines even when the products have not been in the market?
 
No offense but Indonesia doesn’t have the technology. It’s not as easy as it seems. The most promising approach is creating a vaccine that clones the genetic code of coronavirus. A artificial virus that provokes immune response of human body. But that can bear unwanted consequences because the company can create a new monster from a labor. That’s reason why rich countries want to test unproven vaccines on poor population. I can understand though you want to access to chinese vaccines.
If you sleep on a street then a dirty mat is still a good sleeping ground.

I fear you underestimate Indonesia too much. Indonesia’s leading vaccine and pharmaceutical manufacturer BioFarma already existed since 1890 and it is currently the largest producer in some vaccines areas such as Polio. In fact, BioFarma is the largest vaccines and pharmaceutical manufacturer in SEA with an annual production of over 3 billion doses for markets in over 130 countries.

If anyone qualified enough to develop Vaccines in SEA, it would be Indonesia since BioFarma is the only SEA pharmaceutical company certified by WHO to develop and produce vaccines on its own. BioFarma vaccines are already part of several UN missions to eradicate pandemics prior to Covid19. So lets wait and see.
 
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Sinovac tests unproven vaccines just on few people in China, but on mass people in Indonesia and other countries that China calls as friends.
And what precisely is your problem?
Is it done without the consent of the Indonesian Government?
Why are your post so negative, political and anti-China? We are talking about a vaccine for common people who contacted Covid.
Are you are another racist Khmer Krom? :coffee:
 
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That’s odd, isn’t Soeharto despise in Indonesian seeing that the people threw him out of power for corruption and didn't the CIA put him in power in the first place.
 
That’s odd, isn’t Soeharto despise in Indonesian seeing that the people threw him out of power for corruption and didn't the CIA put him in power in the first place.

Only fool who believe CIA is the main reason of Soekarno fall. The one who has the most information and power is Indonesian themselves. And Nope, Soeharto is not despised in Indonesia. He never get trial and live peacefully in his home in Cendana and when he died all Indonesian leaders come to his funeral. He falls not due to corruption but because Indonesian want to have real democracy.

Indonesian like to see the situation in holistic way. Soeharto has made some mistake but he also has good deed like his action to eliminate communism in the country and bring Indonesia into economic development. Beside that, there are still many Soeharto follower in our Armed Force, so it is suicide to put him on jail that can make many Armed Force generals get upset. You can see Egypt doesnt try to get lesson from Indonesia and the result is the democracy there is destroyed by their military.

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Beside the help from Allah SWT, Soekarno fall because of 2 main powers, first is Right Wing Army and second is Islamist power.

This is the story:


Indonesia communist Party won fourth place in the first Indonesian democratic election in 1955. After Soekarno wipe out Indonesia democracy in 1959 and suppress Islamic party, communist increased their follower and political power. They infiltrated Indonesian Armed Force and government. Indonesian Armed Force then get divided, pro communist (left wing faction) and anti communist (right wing faction). Despite so, anti communist one is still proven to be much stronger wing in Armed Force.

Soekarno is seen by many analyst as pro communist leader and in 1965 communist party ask him to make fourth armed forces beside Army, Navy, and Airforce. That new forces is planed to have 1 million strong personnel with all are consisted of Indonesian communist party members to help Soekarno fight Commonwealth Nation in Malaysia which consist of British, Australia, New Zealand, and Malaysian (Ganyang Malaysia).

This is a very dangerous situation for anti communist people in Indonesia and they smell a big danger. CCP in China also has promised to help weaponizing that 1 million strong Indonesian communist force. Before that Communist force ever get weaponized, Right wing faction generals in Armed Force initiated to bring down Soekarno. But unfortunately, pro Communist general in Armed force smell the plan and then killed all of those generals, except Armed Force General, Abdul Haris Nasution who is successful to escape but sadly her little daughter was killed by Left Wing Armed Force (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/30_September_Movement).

Fortunatelly they dont kill General Soeharto and according to many analysts, it is due to Communist party assumption that General Soeharto is still neutral and not a right wing general in Armed Force that can endanger Communist plan. General Soeharto controls Kostrad unit in Army. The elite force beside Kopassus (Indonesia special force).

But later Soeharto turn out to be against Left Wing Armed Force and consolidate all right wings Armed Force power. Indonesia special force, Kopassus, was also in the side of Soeharto. Sarwo Eddie led Kopassus at that time. Forces in West Java like Siliwangi force I believe is also in the hand of anti communist general. Soeharto also got huge moral support by anti Communist demonstration held by HMI (Muslim Student Organization). He then blame Communist party wants to do coup (which is not true since Communist just want to protect Soekarno). Anti Communist groups in Indonesia who are in majority consisted of Muslim groups started to purge Communist. Most Communist party follower are in Central Java and East Java. This is NU strong hold.

Later Soeharto bring down Soekarno with the support of Anti Communist Movement and set up a political party called Golkar who are consisted of retired Armed Force generals, HMI (Muslim Student Organization) alumni, and also some Indonesian Nationalist organizations. He also make Armed Force faction in Parliament and use Golkar and Armed Force to control Indonesia for 32 years.

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Indonesia President, Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono himself who informed Soeharto died and if you understand the news anchor there, she said Indonesia has lost one of their best sons (putera terbaik). There is 7 days national mourning to respect Soeharto contribution on the nation.


Soeharto funeral


Indonesia Presiden, SBY, at Soeharto resident

1604018104679.png


We also dont put Soekarno in jail either and still respected him due to his role in Indonesia independence.
 
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Only fool who believe CIA is the main reason of Soekarno fall. The one who has the most information and power is Indonesian themselves. And Nope, Soeharto is not despised in Indonesia. He never get trial and live peacefully in his home in Cendana and when he died all Indonesian leaders come to his funeral. He falls not due to corruption but because Indonesian want to have real democracy.

Indonesian like to see the situation in holistic way. Soeharto has made some mistake but he also has good deed like his action to eliminate communism in the country and bring Indonesia into economic development. Beside that, there are still many Soeharto follower in our Armed Force, so it is suicide to put him on jail that can make many Armed Force generals get upset. You can see Egypt doesnt try to get lesson from Indonesia and the result is the democracy there is destroyed by their military.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Beside the help from Allah SWT, Soekarno fall because of 2 main powers, first is Right Wing Army and second is Islamist power.

This is the story:


Indonesia communist Party won fourth place in the first Indonesian democratic election in 1955. After Soekarno wipe out Indonesia democracy in 1959 and suppress Islamic party, communist increased their follower and political power. They infiltrated Indonesian Armed Force and government. Indonesian Armed Force then get divided, pro communist (left wing faction) and anti communist (right wing faction). Despite so, anti communist one is still proven to be much stronger wing in Armed Force.

Soekarno is seen by many analyst as pro communist leader and in 1965 communist party ask him to make fourth armed forces beside Army, Navy, and Airforce. That new forces is planed to have 1 million strong personnel with all are consisted of Indonesian communist party members to help Soekarno fight Commonwealth Nation in Malaysia which consist of British, Australia, New Zealand, and Malaysian (Ganyang Malaysia).

This is a very dangerous situation for anti communist people in Indonesia and they smell a big danger. CCP in China also has promised to help weaponizing that 1 million strong Indonesian communist force. Before that Communist force ever get weaponized, Right wing faction generals in Armed Force initiated to bring down Soekarno. But unfortunately, pro Communist general in Armed force smell the plan and then killed all of those generals, except Armed Force General, Abdul Haris Nasution who is successful to escape but sadly her little daughter was killed by Left Wing Armed Force (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/30_September_Movement).

Fortunatelly they dont kill General Soeharto and according to many analysts, it is due to Communist party assumption that General Soeharto is still neutral and not a right wing general in Armed Force that can endanger Communist plan. General Soeharto controls Kostrad unit in Army. The elite force beside Kopassus (Indonesia special force).

But later Soeharto turn out to be against Left Wing Armed Force and consolidate all right wings Armed Force power. Indonesia special force, Kopassus, was also in the side of Soeharto. Sarwo Eddie led Kopassus at that time. Forces in West Java like Siliwangi force I believe is also in the hand of anti communist general. Soeharto also got huge moral support by anti Communist demonstration held by HMI (Muslim Student Organization). He then blame Communist party wants to do coup (which is not true since Communist just want to protect Soekarno). Anti Communist groups in Indonesia who are in majority consisted of Muslim groups started to purge Communist. Most Communist party follower are in Central Java and East Java. This is NU strong hold.

Later Soeharto bring down Soekarno with the support of Anti Communist Movement and set up a political party called Golkar who are consisted of retired Armed Force generals, HMI (Muslim Student Organization) alumni, and also some Indonesian Nationalist organizations. He also make Armed Force faction in Parliament and use Golkar and Armed Force to control Indonesia for 32 years.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Indonesia President, Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono himself who informed Soeharto died and if you understand the news anchor there, she said Indonesia has lost one of their best sons (putera terbaik). There is 7 days national mourning to respect Soeharto contribution on the nation.


Soeharto funeral


Indonesia Presiden, SBY, at Soeharto resident

View attachment 683927

We also dont put Soekarno in jail either and still respected him due to his role in Indonesia independence.
If that is the case he would have stayed in power until he died but this isn’t the case, I expect a lot of Indonesian especially the lower class were celebrating his death.
 
Only fool who believe CIA is the main reason of Soekarno fall. The one who has the most information and power is Indonesian themselves.

The usual narrative is the all powerful CIA has such mind control powers that millions of people will snap in line behind them even if they previously were completely against something.

Screen Shot 2020-10-29 at 11.01.04 PM.jpg

All these people in Hong Kong were just "weak-minded fools tricked by the CIA". Of course none of these people have their own freedom of thought...so it has to be the CIA. :cuckoo:
 
If that is the case he would have stayed in power until he died but this isn’t the case, I expect a lot of Indonesian especially the lower class were celebrating his death.

Do you refer to Soekarno or Soeharto ? Soekarno cannot stay in power because right wing Armed force has opposed him bluntly while Islamist element has already become Soekarno enemy as many Islamist were jailed by Soekarno. Soekarno military campaign in Malaysia is also not popular among the Armed Force and this is why Soekarno was agree to set up fourth forces consisted of communist members since communist party always support Soekarno fully. The force who killed right wing generals is Cakrabirawa (Presidential military guard) and they are part of left wing pro communist armed force. It shows Soekarno trust on communist element in the Armed Force.

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Soeharto

Actually the intelectuals and upper middle class who opposes Soeharto. The demonstration happening during 1997-1998 were all conducted by university students and lecturers. It started in UGM (Universitas Gajah Mada) the university where Amien Rais become professor. He is the greatest critics of New Order (Soeharto regime) and since he is also a chairmant of Muhammadiyah (second biggest Muslim organization), Soeharto cannot easily put him on jail.

The lower class is not despising Soeharto since many Indonesian respect Soeharto action to resign. Many Indonesian still respect Soeharto and it is shown by many people who come out to respect Soeharto death

1604025410187.png

1604025447109.png



The road to democracy is also due to private owned televisions like RCTI, SCTV, and TPI that are owned by Soeharto children have news program and recruited Indonesian best journalists. Their TV becomes popular and have 24 hours operation. These journalist and the TV management covers all of student demonstration along the year and make other Indonesian people know about the movement. Some how Soeharto doesnt have any plan to shut down those News TV coverage that were basically owned by his kids at that time. This is very clear that the journalist operating the news is in the side of democratic movement.

The reason Soeharto fall is also due to collective understanding among Indonesian elite that the time to embrace democracy has come. This is why all of Soeharto ministers resign and it make Soeharto give up the power and let Habibie, his Vice President, become President.

Parliament members also supported student movement and they let the parlement complex open for student which then make the students use it as the place to demonstrate.

The mistake to kill university students during demonstration in Trisakti university also become a big blunder. It create anger among the people and lead to 1998 riots. Chinese etnic business become victim since Chinese ethnic business is seen as Soeharto financial backing where Soeharto himself give monopoly right to Salim group and use Indonesian central bank to give soft loan to many Chinese ethnic business that become his crony.

Soeharto some how want to marginalize Islamist power and put Christian in powerful position like Sentral Bank Governor and Finance Minister and Armed Force general although he then become more Islamic since 1990 after went to Mecca for Hajj and maybe due to influence of Habibie but Christian still hold Central Bank Governor until his resignation. He put Muslim finance minister (Marie Muhammad) in his last 5 years rule.

The shooting in Trisakti University that causes 1998 riots

 
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Soeharto

Actually the intelectuals and upper middle class who opposes Soeharto. The demonstration happening during 1997-1998 were all conducted by university students and lecturers. It started in UGM (Universitas Gajah Mada) the university where Amien Rais become professor. He is the greatest critics of New Order (Soeharto regime) and since he is also a chairmant of Muhammadiyah (second biggest Muslim organization), Soeharto cannot easily put him on jail.

The lower class is not despising Soeharto since many Indonesian respect Soeharto action to resign. Many Indonesian still respect Soeharto and it is shown by many people who come out to respect Soeharto death

View attachment 683952
View attachment 683953


The road to democracy is also due to private owned televisions like RCTI, SCTV, and TPI that are owned by Soeharto children have news program and recruited Indonesian best journalists. Their TV becomes popular and have 24 hours operation. These journalist and the TV management covers all of student demonstration along the year and make other Indonesian people know about the movement. Some how Soeharto doesnt have any plan to shut down those News TV coverage that were basically owned by his kids at that time. This is very clear that the journalist operating the news is in the side of democratic movement.

The reason Soeharto fall is also due to collective understanding among Indonesian elite that the time to embrace democracy has come. This is why all of Soeharto ministers resign and it make Soeharto give up the power and let Habibie, his Vice President, become President.

Parliament members also supported student movement and they let the parlement complex open for student which then make the students use it as the place to demonstrate.

The mistake to kill university students during demonstration in Trisakti university also become a big blunder. It create anger among the people and lead to 1998 riots. Chinese etnic business become victim since Chinese ethnic business is seen as Soeharto financial backing where Soeharto himself give monopoly right to Salim group and use Indonesian central bank to give soft loan to many Chinese ethnic business that become his crony.

Soeharto some how want to marginalize Islamist power and put Christian in powerful position like Sentral Bank Governor and Finance Minister and Armed Force general although he then become more Islamic since 1990 after went to Mecca for Hajj and maybe due to influence of Habibie but Christian still hold Central Bank Governor until his resignation. He put Muslim finance minister (Marie Muhammad) in his last 5 years rule.

The shooting in Trisakti University that causes 1998 riots

He sounds like a CIA back pawn that out lived his usefulness after the cold war.

 
He sounds like a CIA back pawn that out lived his usefulness after the cold war.


CIA is not that powerful mate, just see how they are failed miserably in Iran during Iran revolution. You cannot trust wiki 100 % because people can edit it and wiki look like being controlled by government agency to mislead uninformed people.

Any way the possibility that there is division in military is correct. There could be some force in Indonesia military who want Soeharto fell and exacerbate the riots, but I dont accuse any body as it is still possibility. What I know is that the riots really affect the course of Indonesian politics. The riots gives clue to all elites that Indonesian people is behind the students despite majority were just staying at home. Before the riots, the opposition action is only shown by university students, intellectuals, and NGO

The riots then give more reason to many elites to support student movement. Military and Police becomes afraid to act aggressively against university students. The situation then is exploited by democratic movement by targeting parliament complex and force parliament to fire Soeharto. University Alumni and professional then came to parliament building wearing their old university jackets, supporting their junior who become the main force of the movement, and many NGO gives food and drinks supply. Universities as institution also support the movement and provides bus and supply.

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Just 2-3 weeks after the occupation of parliament complex Soeharto step down. During this period parliament members are very active and keep holding meetings. After almost all ministers resign than Soeharto step down.

 
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Soeharto has made some mistake but he also has good deed like his action to eliminate communism in the country

No brother, not a good thing. :)

Anti Communist groups in Indonesia who are in majority consisted of Muslim groups started to purge Communist.

"Purge" is making an understatement. It was actually a genocide. Up to a million massacred. Some say two million.

CIA is not that powerful mate, just see how they are failed miserably in Iran during Iran revolution.

Maybe you know that it was the left-wingers in Iran who were the main opponents of the shah. The mullahs just tagged along.

Also, Khomeini was living in the West ( France ) before he came down to Iran to rule.

Please read this :
On 27 January, 1979, Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini - founder of Iran's Islamic Republic, the man who called the United States "the Great Satan" - sent a secret message to Washington.

From his home in exile outside Paris, the defiant leader of the Iranian revolution effectively offered the Carter administration a deal: Iranian military leaders listen to you, he said, but the Iranian people follow my orders.
If President Jimmy Carter could use his influence on the military to clear the way for his takeover, Khomeini suggested, he would calm the nation. Stability could be restored, America's interests and citizens in Iran would be protected.
In a first-person message, Khomeini told the White House not to panic at the prospect of losing a strategic ally of 37 years and assured them that he, too, would be a friend.
In the official Iranian narrative of the revolution, Khomeini bravely defied the United States and defeated "the Great Satan" in its desperate efforts to keep the Shah in power.

But the documents reveal that Khomeini was far more engaged with the US than either government has ever admitted. Far from defying America, the ayatollah courted the Carter administration, sending quiet signals that he wanted a dialogue and then portraying a potential Islamic Republic as amenable to US interests.
A recently declassified CIA document reveals that, in November 1963, Khomeini sent a rare message of support to the Kennedy administration while being held under house arrest in Tehran.

It was a few days after a military firing squad executed two alleged organisers of the protests and ahead of a landmark visit by the Soviet head of state to Iran, which played into US fears of Iran tilting towards a friendlier relationship with the USSR.
Khomeini's biggest fear was that the all-powerful America was on the verge of staging a last-minute coup to save the Shah. Instead, he had just received a clear signal that the US considered the Shah finished, and in fact was looking for a face-saving way to protect the military and avoid a communist takeover.
 
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So Viet... whose vaccines are good according to your sound judgement since you keep on talking down the Chinese vaccines even when the products have not been in the market?
I don’t question your vaccines whether or not it’s effective because I know too little I question your moral compass. Testing unproven medicine on foreign population is very Unmoral don’t you think so?
 

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