Vaccines, not spy planes: U.S. misfires in Southeast Asia

[Indos]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1321658714999324673

 

[samsara]

He sounds like a CIA back pawn that out lived his usefulness after the cold war.

Fall of Suharto - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Suharto story of Indonesia is the very same story repeated on Hosni Mobarak in Egypt, the same master of planner, the different victim nations. Rinse and repeat.

 

[samsara]

CIA is not that powerful mate, just see how they are failed miserably in Iran during Iran revolution. You cannot trust wiki 100 % because people can edit it and wiki look like being controlled by government agency to mislead uninformed people.
...

A TIMELINE OF CIA ATROCITIES

By STEVE KANGAS

The following timeline describes just a few of the hundreds of atrocities and crimes committed by the CIA. (1)

CIA operations follow the same recurring script. First, American business interests abroad are threatened by a popular or democratically elected leader. The people support their leader because he intends to conduct land reform, strengthen unions, redistribute wealth, nationalize foreign-owned industry, and regulate business to protect workers, consumers and the environment. So, on behalf of American business, and often with their help, the CIA mobilizes the opposition. First it identifies right-wing groups within the country (usually the military), and offers them a deal: "We'll put you in power if you maintain a favorable business climate for us." The Agency then hires, trains and works with them to overthrow the existing government (usually a democracy). It uses every trick in the book: propaganda, stuffed ballot boxes, purchased elections, extortion, blackmail, sexual intrigue, false stories about opponents in the local media, infiltration and disruption of opposing political parties, kidnapping, beating, torture, intimidation, economic sabotage, death squads and even assassination. These efforts culminate in a military coup, which installs a right-wing dictator. The CIA trains the dictator’s security apparatus to crack down on the traditional enemies of big business, using interrogation, torture and murder. The victims are said to be "communists," but almost always they are just peasants, liberals, moderates, labor union leaders, political opponents and advocates of free speech and democracy. Widespread human rights abuses follow.

This scenario has been repeated so many times that the CIA actually teaches it in a special school, the notorious "School of the Americas." (It opened in Panama but later moved to Fort Benning, Georgia.) Critics have nicknamed it the "School of the Dictators" and "School of the Assassins." Here, the CIA trains Latin American military officers how to conduct coups, including the use of interrogation, torture and murder.

The Association for Responsible Dissent estimates that by 1987, 6 million people had died as a result of CIA covert operations. (2) Former State Department official William Blum correctly calls this an "American Holocaust."

The CIA justifies these actions as part of its war against communism. But most coups do not involve a communist threat. Unlucky nations are targeted for a wide variety of reasons: not only threats to American business interests abroad, but also liberal or even moderate social reforms, political instability, the unwillingness of a leader to carry out Washington’s dictates, and declarations of neutrality in the Cold War. Indeed, nothing has infuriated CIA Directors quite like a nation’s desire to stay out of the Cold War.
...

1965

Indonesia — The CIA overthrows the democratically elected Sukarno with a military coup. The CIA has been trying to eliminate Sukarno since 1957, using everything from attempted assassination to sexual intrigue, for nothing more than his declaring neutrality in the Cold War. His successor, General Suharto, will massacre between 500,000 to 1 million civilians accused of being "communist." The CIA supplies the names of countless suspects.


[...]

A Timeline of CIA Atrocities

A timeline of CIA atrocities.

www.huppi.com

All history concerning CIA intervention in foreign countries is summarized from WILLIAM BLUM’s encyclopedic work, KILLING HOPE: U.S. MILITARY AND CIA INTERVENTIONS SINCE WORLD WAR II (Monroe, Maine: Common Courage Press, 1995). Sources for domestic CIA operations come from Jonathan Vankin and John Whalen’s The 60 Greatest Conspiracies of All Time (Secaucus, N.J.: Citadel Press, 1997).

Killing Hope: U.S. Military and C.I.A. Interventions Since World War II by William Blum

Killing Hope: U.S. Military and C.I.A. Interventions Si…

Is the United States a force for democracy? In this cla…

www.goodreads.com

 

[Indos]

No brother, not a good thing.



"Purge" is making an understatement. It was actually a genocide. Up to a million massacred. Some say two million.

If the communist is not eliminated at that time, they will get 1 million weapon from China and can create civil war. Something like happening in Syria would have happened.

I dont think 500.000 or more is a true estimation. It is an open secret that Western journalist and analysis like to exaggerate the number much more than the actual fact. I condemn the killing and it is not Islamic. In Islam we cannot kill someone only because they are atheist.

 

[Nike]

If the communist is not eliminated at that time, they will get 1 million weapon from China and can create civil war. Something like happening in Syria would have happened.

I dont think 500.000 or more is a true estimation. It is an open secret that Western journalist and analysis like to exaggerate the number much more than the actual fact. I condemn the killing and it is not Islamic. In Islam we cannot kill someone only because they are atheist.

there is more than one million killed, that's statement from Sarwo Edhie Wibowo himself who presided over the carnage and responsible for the mopping up operations. That's happened during DPR meeting in 1989

BTW, you should already know the GP Anshar and NU youths along with Muhammadiyah youth movements is responsible too for what happening at the times. The same can be said for the likes of Pemuda Pancasila, Islamic or not, they are cold blooded fact. I would not dwell much for what happened, but the purge indeed deprive Indonesia much of their intellectual community who happened to be an atheist or abangan, the likes of Pramoedya Ananta Toer is in the risk of being killed en masse and being burried or just being thrown into the river or seas.

 

[Indos]

there is more than one million killed, that's statement from Sarwo Edhie Wibowo himself who presided over the carnage and responsible for the mopping up operations. That's happened during DPR meeting in 1989

BTW, you should already know the GP Anshar and NU youths along with Muhammadiyah youth movements is responsible too for what happening at the times. The same can be said for the likes of Pemuda Pancasila, Islamic or not, they are cold blooded fact. I would not dwell much for what happened, but the purge indeed deprive Indonesia much of their intellectual community who happened to be an atheist or abangan, the likes of Pramoedya Ananta Toer is in the risk of being killed en masse and being burried or just being thrown into the river or seas.

I dont think Muhammadiyah youth movements are responsible. Muhammadiyah is not strong in Central and East java where these regions were the strong hold of Communist party. Muhammadiyah is strong only in cities and particularly spread through out Indonesia through Minang tribe traders. Communist strong hold is more in villages. NU strong hold is in Central and particularly East Java.

 

[HeyPaula1963]

One has to read this Rothschild-owned and controlled REUTERS news aggregator (actually the trio giant, Reuters in London; its US subsidiary AP, and AFP in Paris are all owned and controlled by Rothschild families) very carefully.

Taking for instance if one peruses its news lines:

"On his trip to Yunnan, Pandjaitan also secured almost $20 billion in funding from Chinese companies for a pet project of the president: a plan to build a lithium battery factory and nickel processing industry, the adviser said."

BY DEFINITION, pet project (Noun): a project, activity or goal pursued as a personal favorite, rather than because it is generally accepted as necessary or important.

The Reuters concluded the Indonesia's LITHIUM BATTERY FACTORY and NICKEL PROCESSING INDUSTRY are the pet projects of the Indonesian President, Joko Widodo. While it happened that Evo Morales in Bolivia was forced to down from his presidency in 2019 by Washington's men in Bolivian police and military forces due to Morales' industrial policy on lithium processing!!

And moreover if one realizes that the PT Freeport Indonesia, part of Freeport-McMoRan Copper & Gold Inc., (NYSE: FCX) after operating in the Grasberg mine, Papua, Indonesia SINCE 1966, and has not yet been operating its smelter plant in Indonesia until today (heard they are building one in East Java but possibly not yet operational) but all this long just exporting the raw materials to its smelter in Australia. The Grasberg mine in Papua Island is the largest GOLD mine and the second-largest COPPER mine in the world. JUST THINK!!!


And this news agency attaches no significance to the huge amount of the Chinese investment, almost 20 BILLION USD... OMG

For Indonesia, such FDI is truly huge! In fact I believe such direct investment amount is considered huge everywhere, incl. in China itself!


So, read and digest Reuters and those kinds very carefully! They are very good even excellent in mixing some facts with their spins and twists!! Great at "cooking" information!!!

You keep launching anti-american sentiments out of Conspiracy Theories and New-Left style books that I thought you don't even read, really make me sick.
Don't make me called you a Russian Troll or a useful idiot.

 

[Gundala]

Both side killed plenty of people. Communist Party have been trying to coupe more than 2 times in the course of history if Im not mistaken. My grandmother's big brother who was the Village head/ "camat" (reporting to mayor) got killed along with 8+ more village head, they line them up and shoot them. One of the victim survived and told the story. Same goes after Soeharto took lead, some of them got punished without trial.

East (Communist) and West intellegence share the same thing in destabilizing Indonesia thru their agenda. Low poverty get rid of logic and any promise to give more food on their plate would get their support, then politician from domestic and foreign country took advantage of it, simply as that.

But yea, I agree with the original poster topic. US in this Thrump era has been miss firing in term of approaching or gaining support from SEA region. When one country in this region bleed and thrive to get their own indepence it less likely they going to allow military base nor military operation in peace time from their teritory. They shoulda approach it differently.

 

[Nike]

Both side killed plenty of people. Communist Party have been trying to coupe more than 2 times in the course of history if Im not mistaken. My grandmother's big brother who was the Village head/ "camat" (reporting to mayor) got killed along with 8+ more village head, they line them up and shoot them. One of the victim survived and told the story. Same goes after Soeharto took lead, some of them got punished without trial.

East (Communist) and West intellegence share the same thing in destabilizing Indonesia thru their agenda. Low poverty get rid of logic and any promise to give more food on their plate would get their support, then politician from domestic and foreign country took advantage of it, simply as that.

But yea, I agree with the original poster topic. US in this Thrump era has been miss firing in term of approaching or gaining support from SEA region. When one country in this region bleed and thrive to get their own indepence it less likely they going to allow military base nor military operation in peace time from their teritory. They shoulda approach it differently.

Trump actually just wanna to get more balanced sheet of their trade with China, hence he put trade war is the utmost campaign of his. But he is trying to limited the scope only at economy sector only . But there is hints most of US official get more funnier idea than his, and acts "outside" the corridor Trump had set. He is not only lamenting US negative trade balance against China but with many other partner too, that's why he is put TTP into dustbin and renegotiate GSP of so many countries including India and Indonesia. Trump is very transactional, and he is put his benefit as the utmost priority.

 

[8888888888888]

CIA is not that powerful mate, just see how they are failed miserably in Iran during Iran revolution. You cannot trust wiki 100 % because people can edit it and wiki look like being controlled by government agency to mislead uninformed people.

Any way the possibility that there is division in military is correct. There could be some force in Indonesia military who want Soeharto fell and exacerbate the riots, but I dont accuse any body as it is still possibility. What I know is that the riots really affect the course of Indonesian politics. The riots gives clue to all elites that Indonesian people is behind the students despite majority were just staying at home. Before the riots, the opposition action is only shown by university students, intellectuals, and NGO

The riots then give more reason to many elites to support student movement. Military and Police becomes afraid to act aggressively against university students. The situation then is exploited by democratic movement by targeting parliament complex and force parliament to fire Soeharto. University Alumni and professional then came to parliament building wearing their old university jackets, supporting their junior who become the main force of the movement, and many NGO gives food and drinks supply. Universities as institution also support the movement and provides bus and supply.

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Just 2-3 weeks after the occupation of parliament complex Soeharto step down. During this period parliament members are very active and keep holding meetings. After almost all ministers resign than Soeharto step down.

You are probably overestimating Soeharto popularity, if he is so strong and popular why did he fall anyway. Many Indonesia just had enough of his rule and corruption and if you don't think so this just means you are in the minority.

 

[Pandora]

Indonesia should take note of how US is treating India after several strategic Military agreements. Indonesia is in the best position to be neutral. Also lets not forget the fact that US is a declining global power with ever reducing economic clout on the other hand china is willing to make Multi billion dollar investment. US on the other hand has no interests other than causing unrest in Indo Pacific region which is in the interest on US rather than stability.

 

[HeyPaula1963]

Indonesia should take note of how US is treating India after several strategic Military agreements. Indonesia is in the best position to be neutral. Also lets not forget the fact that US is a declining global power with ever reducing economic clout on the other hand china is willing to make Multi billion dollar investment. US on the other hand has no interests other than causing unrest in Indo Pacific region which is in the interest on US rather than stability.

Maybe in "your country", US economic influence is not existent so you can say they have less influence right now. Here in Indonesia (at least at first term of Jokowi Presidency), yes... PRC has a lot of investment here especially through BRI. But now, our Almigthy de-facto Prime Minister Luhut Binsar Panjaitan was said that, Indonesia will getting closer to US. Just few weeks ago, US agree to doing a investment here in Indonesia through their US DFC which is only the start. And we know, US will not gonna let us be under the PRC influence and here, we can witness US resurgence to gaining their economic clout.

 

[Pandora]

Maybe in "your country", US economic influence is not existent so you can say they have less influence right now. Here in Indonesia (at least at first term of Jokowi Presidency), yes... PRC has a lot of investment here especially through BRI. But now, our Almigthy de-facto Prime Minister Luhut Binsar Panjaitan was said that, Indonesia will getting closer to US. Just few weeks ago, US agree to doing a investment here in Indonesia through their US DFC which is only the start. And we know, US will not gonna let us be under the PRC influence and here, we can witness US resurgence to gaining their economic clout.

When you have trouble comprehending a comment always read it couple of times before getting your zipper in a twist. I said declining economic clout of US compared to china which is a fact not some fan boy statement.

 

[Place Of Space]

You are probably overestimating Soeharto popularity, if he is so strong and popular why did he fall anyway. Many Indonesia just had enough of his rule and corruption and if you don't think so this just means you are in the minority.

Everything they talk about are excues or the tip of the iceberg, no matter what about Soeharto, Soekarno, Communist, CIA, Democracy. Their criminal governments and army had only one goal: finish state-ism of Dutch heritage and establish nationalism of Indon. For this goal, they do anything inhuman. Unfortunately they targeted at Chinese and Chinese paid all price for this colonial islands country's new era.

 

[HeyPaula1963]

When you have trouble comprehending a comment always read it couple of times before getting your zipper in a twist. I said declining economic clout of US compared to china which is a fact not some fan boy statement.

Hey, US is fighting back against China here in my country, it's a fact.