Used F16's - EDA 50 ~ 100 Available

[Thorough Pro]

and what is that supposed to mean? who sends in u armed aircraft across the border? if they were armed then we should chicken out?

The link says

" According to the PAF, the Indian aircraft were fully armed." They (indians) may have had a backup plan too no?

 

[Ultima Thule]

The future "Typhoon"

This is really a realistic option that we should go forward , in case the J-31 fighter jet is still not fully ready or maturing. J-31 is still not battle ready or fully inducted in Airforce (chinese). So that leaves us with a alternative direction to consider, and Typhoon fills that gap well 40-50 Unit purchase.

where are $$$$$$$$$$ sir J-10B or C will be more cheaper and viable option than Typhoon

 

[Thorough Pro]

Logically F-16 should have more range as there's only one engine to burn the fuel

What do you think will be the range of these two fighters:

a) Rafaela with two 600 gallon and one centreline 790 gallon, combined 8,300 kg plus of fuel
b) F-16 with two 600 gallon and one CFT with 450 gallon, combined 6,667 kg plus of fuel (F-16 will not be using centre line tank for this question)

@Oscar, not sure I understood that, are your inferring that I am making that stuff up regarding being a son of ex-serviceman?

Its actually funny when people make that stuff up. Its better to say "I have no idea" or "I was wrong" instead of trying to cling onto some misguided need for adulation online

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

The F-16s add a good punch with minimal effort so they are a good option for the PAF.

I would not discount the Typhoon out as of yet.

Currently, I don't think the Consortium-aspect of the Typhoon will give the PAF problems. The UK, Italy, Spain and to an extent even Germany are going to need manufacturing work in these tough economic times.

Financing will be an issue, but the Typhoon line will be cold for 2 years, at which point they'll begin with Kuwait's order. I think we can add another 2 years before they can begin another order. In this case, Pakistan has four years to come up with a down-payment, and a mix of loans and term-financing could take them the rest of the course.

My main concern would be ancillary costs. The PAF has a solid air-to-air component with the F-16s and JF-17s, so the Typhoon - as-is - would add to air superiority more so than deep-strike. It has the payload and hard-points, but Pakistan would get maximum utility by integrating its own SOWs to the platform. So there'll be a cost to custom integration, or a cost to buying pricey munitions from MBDA (e.g. Exocet, KEPD 350E, etc).

Affordable customization for deep-strike might be a reason why I think the Su-35 is something worth pursuing. It cost the Chinese $83 million a unit with spare engines and parts, so it could be more affordable to procure up-front. The main issues are (1) is this actually a real factor for the PAF and (2) are both sides ready to level to make it happen.

 

[I.R.A]

and what is that supposed to mean? who sends in u armed aircraft across the border? if they were armed then we should chicken out?

I don't know, I never flew any jet and never sat on a seat with my fingers on trigger, where I had to decide in seconds "to shoot or not to shoot". Now when I look at it, I thank God that I suffer from mild colorblindness.

 

[Raider 21]

Yeah i told him any times...don't speak truth so much and so openly...it hurts... but he is incorrigible

Hilarious

 

[SQ8]

Logically F-16 should have more range as there's only one engine to burn the fuel



@Oscar, not sure I understood that, are your inferring that I am making that stuff up regarding being a son of ex-serviceman?

No
I am referring to people who bring up "fantastic" revelations as if they were there at the meeting.

Currently, I don't think the Consortium-aspect of the Typhoon will give the PAF problems. The UK, Italy, Spain and to an extent even Germany are going to need manufacturing work in these tough economic times.

Financing will be an issue, but the Typhoon line will be cold for 2 years, at which point they'll begin with Kuwait's order. I think we can add another 2 years before they can begin another order. In this case, Pakistan has four years to come up with a down-payment, and a mix of loans and term-financing could take them the rest of the course.

My main concern would be ancillary costs. The PAF has a solid air-to-air component with the F-16s and JF-17s, so the Typhoon - as-is - would add to air superiority more so than deep-strike. It has the payload and hard-points, but Pakistan would get maximum utility by integrating its own SOWs to the platform. So there'll be a cost to custom integration, or a cost to buying pricey munitions from MBDA (e.g. Exocet, KEPD 350E, etc).

Affordable customization for deep-strike might be a reason why I think the Su-35 is something worth pursuing. It cost the Chinese $83 million a unit with spare engines and parts, so it could be more affordable to procure up-front. The main issues are (1) is this actually a real factor for the PAF and (2) are both sides ready to level to make it happen.

If it is to be the Su-platform, then a su-35 like upgrade of the Su-30 makes more sense. None of the TvC, no canards, just a more rcs optimized airframe with a conformal bay. A silent flanker so to speak.
Development costs might be offset by the absense of any complex,heavy and generally redundant TVC.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

No
I am referring to people who bring up "fantastic" revelations as if they were there at the meeting.



If it is to be the Su-platform, then a su-35 like upgrade of the Su-30 makes more sense. None of the TvC, no canards, just a more rcs optimized airframe with a conformal bay. A silent flanker so to speak.
Development costs might be offset by the absense of any complex,heavy and generally redundant TVC.

Funnily enough, Russia actually just revealed a new export version of the Su-30 (Su-30SME), but it's the exact opposite of what you listed - i.e. with TVC and canards.

The Su-35 itself omits the canards, but it does retain TVC via the AL-41. I don't think a sans-TVC variant of the AL-41 is impossible, but custom work with the Russians generally seems a bit iffy to me. They're not even that flexible in imparting MRO.

Personally, I would pick up the Su-35 without the radar, avionics, etc, just the airframe and engine, and then get it fitted with a high-powered NRIET AESA radar and our selection of AAM, PGBs and SOWs.

 

[SQ8]

Funnily enough, Russia actually just revealed a new export version of the Su-30 (Su-30SME), but it's the exact opposite of what you listed - i.e. with TVC and canards.

The Su-35 itself omits the canards, but it does retain TVC via the AL-41. I don't think a sans-TVC variant of the AL-41 is impossible, but custom work with the Russians generally seems a bit iffy to me. They're not even that flexible in imparting MRO.

Personally, I would pick up the Su-35 without the radar, avionics, etc, just the airframe and engine, and then get it fitted with a high-powered NRIET AESA radar and our selection of AAM, PGBs and SOWs.

I am not much of a fan of heavy payload aircraft vis a vis our situation in the subcontinent. The flanker series can carry a lot of payload but its a pig in that configuration (its a pig with anything more than half its internal fuel).

A better option is to focus on a limited M2k purchase from Qatar and perhaps some haggling with the UAE if @Khafee can be bothered and work with the French on rewiring the two wing stations for RAAD.
That should provide a pretty potent and effective force until a 5th generation comes online

 

[Khafee]

I am not much of a fan of heavy payload aircraft vis a vis our situation in the subcontinent. The flanker series can carry a lot of payload but its a pig in that configuration (its a pig with anything more than half its internal fuel).

A better option is to focus on a limited M2k purchase from Qatar and perhaps some haggling with the UAE if @Khafee can be bothered and work with the French on rewiring the two wing stations for RAAD.
That should provide a pretty potent and effective force until a 5th generation comes online

Why don't we buy the RAAD from you, and you can help us re-wire it .

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I am not much of a fan of heavy payload aircraft vis a vis our situation in the subcontinent. The flanker series can carry a lot of payload but its a pig in that configuration (its a pig with anything more than half its internal fuel).

A better option is to focus on a limited M2k purchase from Qatar and perhaps some haggling with the UAE if @Khafee can be bothered and work with the French on rewiring the two wing stations for RAAD.
That should provide a pretty potent and effective force until a 5th generation comes online

I prefer that the PAF look at the MiG-35 or MiG-29M/M2.

It's a medium-weight platform, but we could equip the RD-33MK to the JF-17 as well - the MiG-35 and JF-17 could share the same engine. In fact, one could go several steps further and have the MiG-35 and JF-17 share the same radar, avionics, EW/ECM and weapons too.

For all intents and purposes, the MiG-29/35 could be a bigger and longer-range JF-17, and a beater for strike roles. Egypt got its MiG-29M/M2s for USD $40m a fighter.

 

[SQ8]

Why don't we buy the RAAD from you, and you can help us re-wire it .

The Scalp-AD(shaheen) already exists

 

[Khafee]

The Scalp-AD(shaheen) already exists

Raad would give us additional capability, and RAAD-2's additional range.

 

[HRK]

I prefer that the PAF look at the MiG-35 or MiG-29M/M2.

It's a medium-weight platform, but we could equip the RD-33MK to the JF-17 as well - the MiG-35 and JF-17 could share the same engine. In fact, one could go several steps further and have the MiG-35 and JF-17 share the same radar, avionics, EW/ECM and weapons too.

For all intents and purposes, the MiG-29/35 could be a bigger and longer-range JF-17, and a beater for strike roles. Egypt got its MiG-29M/M2s for USD $40m a fighter.

With all due respect I disagree with this proposal as we not only have Airfoce needs to cater but now have a NASCENT aviation industry as well, so why should we always think as CONSUMER/COSTUMER why not we should adopt the psychology of a PRODUCER ... ??

if we have to go for any such aircraft which should bring many commonalities with JF-17 such as engine & avionics, but will only be different in its design then why not engage our own industry .... ?? task them to come up with some indigenous (or with as little as possible foreign help), in fact why the design should be all different try to bring as much commonalities possible in that venture take Mirage-2000 to Mirage-4000, or earlier F/A-18 to Super Hornet as examples

This will not only address the needs of Airforce but would the serve the local industry & would help in its growth as well ... IF we should necessarily be involved in any 4 or 4+ generation project then in my humble opinion we must try to adopt this path not just off-the shelf purchase unless number are ≤ 40...

 

[Khafee]

No
I am referring to people who bring up "fantastic" revelations as if they were there at the meeting.



If it is to be the Su-platform, then a su-35 like upgrade of the Su-30 makes more sense. None of the TvC, no canards, just a more rcs optimized airframe with a conformal bay. A silent flanker so to speak.
Development costs might be offset by the absense of any complex,heavy and generally redundant TVC.

Canards - they could be composites, hence RCS would not be an issue, with the added maneuverability.

TVC - seems, a clueless fanboy sitting somewhere in the min.of def, has no clue that a high off boresight missile, would render it ineffective.