US to offer F-35 fighters to India

[dbc]

On contrary if you go by reports then IN is showing interest in F-35...You are right when you say that we have 2 5th generation fighter programs...However indegenous one is gonna frucitfy by 2020-2025 and FGFA will come around 2017-2018....Thereafter work will start on Naval Version which might take few more years....So in essence there is not much choice for IN as far as 5 generation fighters are concerned till 2020(best case scenario).....On top of that none of this plane is in development which is where F-35 beats them....

...my feel is a partnership with India is strategic for western firms. The MRCA deal is bigger than just the revenue from the sale of aircraft and associated hardware and technology. Dassault, EAD LM and Boeing have already established significant presence in India or are in the process of doing so to leverage skilled labor and gain market share. The MRCA deal will allow one of these firms to entrench itself in a key growth market.

In view of this, it isn't far fetched for LM to offer the Lightning II in the hope of drawing Indian firms and investments into the project. I think the Obama administration and Congress will be favorably disposed toward not just a buyer - seller relation but a deeper strategic partnership with India. I know many Indian's on the forum have expressed fears of sanctions, but if you pause and think about scenarios that may prompt future sanctions you will come to realize that sanctions are extremely unlikely. India will have to commit an egregious wrong such as an unprovoked act of aggression against a peaceful neighbor or first use of nuclear weapons to trigger sanctions.

 

[Parashuram1]

Well But this is just an Offer.... India is very well busy with two 5th gen fighter programs .... But if this is accepted, it would be for navy not Airforce....

What about the naval variants of your stealth fighters? Surely, your country is interested in self-reliance isn't it? Or is it willing to go 5th generation depending totally on some other country?

I ask this because the money spent on your current projects would be a waste if it cannot achieve the objective of self-reliance in complete air defense whether naval fighters or air force fighters.

 

[Parashuram1]

Wanna bet, laddy lad?

Go to Economics 101 in your local Community College plox.

Actually he's right. I don't think Australia would be interested to go bankrupt maintaining fighters that are way beyond their regional requirements. I was amused when Australian government considered request Pentagon to reconsider their ban with regards to Raptor's sale.


That aircraft requires thousands of dollars every 1 hour of flight, which is not something that is affordable to many countries except Japan perhaps. I say this because economically it is the only country that can stand shoulder to shoulder with United States and the special relationship Japanese share with Americans.

Israel is never going to be able to afford even one squadron with their limited budget and getting them those would mean all of their procurement orders would be carried out by American money.

While I am aware of Australian economic strength and stability, it is such decisions as these that make countries weaker and less capable. Raptors are just an overkill for Australia's potential threats.

Super Hornets are reputed and extremely capable fighters (barring some of their technical issues that Boeing has admitted itself) that serve RAAF quite well (they're really good in our air force as well). The JSF would suffice even if you consider its range, payload and maximum speed limitations as compared to Sukhois that Indonesians and Malaysians have.

Australia is not a 'power projecting' country and therefore it would be pointless to get the Raptors.

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

West want to keep high tech technology out of reach from few countries, so with F-35 a lot of restriction will be put on India too.

 

[Parashuram1]

...my feel is a partnership with India is strategic for western firms. The MRCA deal is bigger than just the revenue from the sale of aircraft and associated hardware and technology. Dassault, EAD LM and Boeing have already established significant presence in India or are in the process of doing so to leverage skilled labor and gain market share. The MRCA deal will allow one of these firms to entrench itself in a key growth market.

In view of this, it isn't far fetched for LM to offer the Lightning II in the hope of drawing Indian firms and investments into the project. I think the Obama administration and Congress will be favorably disposed toward not just a buyer - seller relation but a deeper strategic partnership with India. I know many Indian's on the forum have expressed fears of sanctions, but if you pause and think about scenarios that may prompt future sanctions you will come to realize that sanctions are extremely unlikely. India will have to commit an egregious wrong such as an unprovoked act of aggression against a peaceful neighbor or first use of nuclear weapons to trigger sanctions.

Not a chance. JSF was offered to only top allies of United States in terms of getting involved in its designing and manufacturing. And one thing amusing about American deals is that they keep their technologies to themselves; which is contrary to even the 4.5th generation fighter requirements that the Indians have demanded from Boeing and Lockheed Martin.

Do you think that they'd allow Indians of all the Allies to access the core source codes after they have been partners to Russian programme and have their own design in the pipeline? Even British didn't get access to it despite being the largest non-American contributors.

 

[Ras]

Actually he's right. I don't think Australia would be interested to go bankrupt maintaining fighters that are way beyond their regional requirements. I was amused when Australian government considered request Pentagon to reconsider their ban with regards to Raptor's sale.


That aircraft requires thousands of dollars every 1 hour of flight, which is not something that is affordable to many countries except Japan perhaps. I say this because economically it is the only country that can stand shoulder to shoulder with United States and the special relationship Japanese share with Americans.

Israel is never going to be able to afford even one squadron with their limited budget and getting them those would mean all of their procurement orders would be carried out by American money.

While I am aware of Australian economic strength and stability, it is such decisions as these that make countries weaker and less capable. Raptors are just an overkill for Australia's potential threats.

Super Hornets are reputed and extremely capable fighters (barring some of their technical issues that Boeing has admitted itself) that serve RAAF quite well (they're really good in our air force as well). The JSF would suffice even if you consider its range, payload and maximum speed limitations as compared to Sukhois that Indonesians and Malaysians have.

Australia is not a 'power projecting' country and therefore it would be pointless to get the Raptors.

The fact is F22 or no F22 if the Indonesians or Malaysians decide to invade Australia,there is nothing Australia can do alone.But Australia is under the US security umbrella so no one is going to invade them.

 

[dbc]

Not a chance. JSF was offered to only top allies of United States in terms of getting involved in its designing and manufacturing. And one thing amusing about American deals is that they keep their technologies to themselves; which is contrary to even the 4.5th generation fighter requirements that the Indians have demanded from Boeing and Lockheed Martin.

Do you think that they'd allow Indians of all the Allies to access the core source codes after they have been partners to Russian programme and have their own design in the pipeline? Even British didn't get access to it despite being the largest non-American contributors.

...source codes? What source codes? Much ado has been made of source codes by people who don't fully understand the implications, it is a non issue for mission planning,aircraft configuration,maintenance and operation. The aircraft is sold with support software including a mission planning suite that allows the end user to configure all aspects of aircraft operation for any mission without the need to make changes to the "source code". You really expect each partner nation to maintain a customized version of millions of lines of code just to support a unique requirement? Any need for customization that may arise is handled with plug-ins that allow the end user to extend existing functionality or add new capability.

 

[black flame]

Well But this is just an Offer.... India is very well busy with two 5th gen fighter programs .... But if this is accepted, it would be for navy not Airforce....

well dude u have misunderstanding the whole offer the pakfa and AMCA is for the indian air force for now.... and the naval variant of the AMCA is no where to come till 2030 and more over it is still on the drawing table and pakfa may be by 2025 (approx)...........well it is not decided on the naval pakfa so for the next 15 to 20 years we have to depend on the N-LCA and mig29k/kub however when compared to the f 35 i would say that IN should go for few numbers say 4 - 5 and the rest must be NLCA & Mig 29k/kub

 

[Bang Galore]

I know many Indian's on the forum have expressed fears of sanctions, but if you pause and think about scenarios that may prompt future sanctions you will come to realize that sanctions are extremely unlikely. India will have to commit an egregious wrong such as an unprovoked act of aggression against a peaceful neighbor or first use of nuclear weapons to trigger sanctions.

If that's the criteria, then I guess we are probably safe. It's extremely unlikely that we will go all the way & attack Canada in our search for "peaceful" neighbours (Even if they are your neighbours & not ours.Care for an exchange?)

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I had to come back to this thread again to chuckle

 

[calcutta]

quite good news... but the facts are
1> LM is not gov. of USA
2> it is juat another desparate move by LM to bring down costs which has jumped from $50 million to $85million per unit and expected to increase more..moreover the participating countries are giving all the kind of negative signals like pulling out of the JSF program or cutting down the no. of intakes....all further rising the costs.

 

[blain2]

lol they are selling to us the latest versions of the F-18 and F-16, the versions that even Pakistan has no access to, so bumping that up one notch and offering the F-35 is no surprise. India is a major arm's market for LM and they will want to exploit that as much as possible. With India planning to get as much as 200 PAKFA's, there is a huge market for 5ht generation aircraft in India.

Who told you that we do not have access to what is being offered to you? No less than Vice Adm Lefever (commander, Office of the Defense Representative, Pakistan) is on record saying that all versions of F-16s were available to Pakistan, however its a matter of funding. Pakistan has never been interested in the F/A-18. Secondly, by the time IN actually gets some F-35s, PAF may potentially already have some on hand. Just never say never. There are quite a few angles at work here and its certainly not just the Indians talking about these things.

 

[dingyibvs]

...my feel is a partnership with India is strategic for western firms. The MRCA deal is bigger than just the revenue from the sale of aircraft and associated hardware and technology. Dassault, EAD LM and Boeing have already established significant presence in India or are in the process of doing so to leverage skilled labor and gain market share. The MRCA deal will allow one of these firms to entrench itself in a key growth market.

In view of this, it isn't far fetched for LM to offer the Lightning II in the hope of drawing Indian firms and investments into the project. I think the Obama administration and Congress will be favorably disposed toward not just a buyer - seller relation but a deeper strategic partnership with India. I know many Indian's on the forum have expressed fears of sanctions, but if you pause and think about scenarios that may prompt future sanctions you will come to realize that sanctions are extremely unlikely. India will have to commit an egregious wrong such as an unprovoked act of aggression against a peaceful neighbor or first use of nuclear weapons to trigger sanctions.

Sanctions are political moves, the U.S. certainly didn't hesitate to levy sanctions because India tested some nukes. There are more reasons for them to levy sanctions overtly AND covertly than egregious acts of aggression. Any number of excuses can be used, maybe the U.S. "couldn't" produce parts fast enough, maybe they suddenly find GOI's method of dealing with the maoists violation of human rights, maybe they say that a skirmish against Pakistan is an attempt to sidetrack American anti-terror efforts. If they want to levy sanctions, you can bet that they can find an excuse, and they may want to levy sanctions for any number of reasons.

 

[Kompromat]

Who told you that we do not have access to what is being offered to you? No less than Vice Adm Lefever (commander, Office of the Defense Representative, Pakistan) is on record saying that all versions of F-16s were available to Pakistan, however its a matter of funding. Pakistan has never been interested in the F/A-18. Secondly, by the time IN actually gets some F-35s, PAF may potentially already have some on hand. Just never say never. There are quite a few angles at work here and its certainly not just the Indians talking about these things.

I am just wondering how an air craft like F-35 will operate from a Russian/Indian Command and control system onboard that air craft carrier , wouldn't be mixing up the Technology secrets that US always have preserved

 

[merajahmed]

I am just wondering how an air craft like F-35 will operate from a Russian/Indian Command and control system onboard that air craft carrier , wouldn't be mixing up the Technology secrets that US always have preserved

mate we are operating mirage (France) and harrier (UK) in this platform so there will be now problem for operating the f-35 but yes we need some upgradation in ac if we use the naval version