What's new

US ship involved in accident.

Well, I suppose the poor quality of US ships is why the 2 major units of the Polish navy are ... ex US Perry class.


I put a question mark there because I've not seen official reports making statements about the presence or absence of a bridgewatch on Fitzgerald. There has been no report yet of equipment malfunction, or of equipment not being used or not being monitored. Likewise for the AIS data (the usefullness was alrteady explained above).

You can claim all you want but that doesn't make it fact and the reliability of any Japanese Coast Guard investigation finding is a million times better then your opinions and splitsecond judgements on - to say the least - partial data.

To pretend that the RT article that was referenced somehow proves Fitzgerald is at fault is simply rediculous, esp. because in fact it provides more conclusive and damning statements regarding ACX Crystal.

To detect anything by radar, there systems need to be switched on:
  • AN/SPY-1D 3D Radar
  • AN/SPS-67(V)2 Surface Search Radar
  • AN/SPS-73(V)12 Surface Search Radar
Can anyone tell me why Fitzgerald would have the long range AN/SPY-1D up and running, considering what it is for, where the ship was sailing at the time of the accident and it being peace time?

The SPS-67(V)3 is a C-Band 280KW radar providing surface and air surveillance, and navigation function capabilities. In the Aegis Destroyer, the SPS-67 provides priority targets designation to the Gun Weapon System in support of the SPY-1.
http://www.engineerdir.com/product/catalog/12937/index1.html
Since during peacetime off the Japanese coast there was no need to designate surface targets, this radar may well have remained switched off.

Leaves the AN/SPS-73 navigation radar

Was it reported to be in use and monitored or not?

So why "agile" and "cutting-edge" USS Fitzgerald with "professional" US sailors was unable to avoid this collision ??

When it comes to Japanese investigation bear in mind that Japan is still under US occupation and US militarymen are raping Japanese women and children with immunity (source).
 
.
Why "agile", "cutting-edge" USS Fitzgerald "proudly made in the USA with US craftsmanship" with "professional" US sailors was unable to avoid collision with ACX Crystal ? Because US ships are not as "agile" and "cutting-edge" as US "experts" claim. And because US Navy is not as "stronk" and "professional" as US "experts" claim. That's why US "experts" are so desperate to defend USS Fitzgerald and shift the blame on ACX Crystal.
This collision shows that US Navy is unprofessional.
Very well said.
My Sentiments Exactly.
Imagine the insults from China haters if this had been a Chinese warship.
.
 
.
The US ship has high possibility of being found not guilty....But for the wrong reasons.

 
.
So why "agile" and "cutting-edge" USS Fitzgerald with "professional" US sailors was unable to avoid this collision ??


Compare this to the Russian Naval accident when the freighter Youzarsif H (2100 tons) collided with the Russian ship Liman (1500t). The Russian ship sank.

Any guesses who built the Liman?
 
.
From the above RT article
_______________________
Cargo ship that hit US destroyer near Japan was on autopilot, data shows
Published time: 23 Jun, 2017 16:31
© JIJI PRESS / AFP
The Philippines-flagged freighter that struck the USS Fitzgerald off the coast of Japan last week was on autopilot at the time, according to tracking data that emerged in the course of the investigation. The collision killed seven US sailors and injured three.
While the US Navy’s investigation is ongoing, officials familiar with the preliminary results said the container ship ACX Crystal was under control of a computerized navigation system at 1:30 am local time on June 16, when the freighter broadsided the Fitzgerald about 64 miles off the coast of Japan.

There were no crew members on duty in the pilot house of the Crystal at the moment the freighter collided with the Fitzgerald, the Washington Free Beacon reported. So far, the investigators have found no evidence the collision was deliberate.

The Navy investigators are now trying to determine why the Fitzgerald’s radar and sensors did not detect the freighter in time to avoid the collision.

The Arleigh Burke-class guided missile destroyer is equipped with the AN/SPS-64 navigation radar and a commercial radar system. It also has a crew of nearly 300 sailors, and is required to maintain a watch on the bridge at all times.

The Crystal, however, had a crew of about 20 at the time of the collision. Cargo ships like the Crystal are required to broadcast AIS location data, which should have been monitored by the Fitzgerald’s crew.

An analysis of that data by the private data analytics company Savi shows that the Crystal slowed down after the collision but continued sailing on its course for about 36 minutes, at which point it turned around and headed back to the collision site. The crash was officially reported at 2:20am local time, nearly an hour after the fact.

"This shows the autopilot was engaged because nobody would power out of an accident with another ship and keep sailing back on course. It’s unthinkable," naval analyst Steffan Watkins told the Free Beacon. The fact that the merchant ship did not radio the Japanese Coast Guard for almost 30 minutes also suggests nobody was on the bridge at the time of the accident.

The freighter’s impact damaged the Fitzgerald’s communication systems, forcing the crew to communicate by satellite-based cell phones. It also damaged the commanding officer’s stateroom and flooded one of the berthing compartments, causing seven sailors to drown.

Three crew members were injured and had to be flown to Japan by helicopter for medical treatment, including the destroyer’s captain, Commander Bryce Benson.

The Fitzgerald is currently undergoing repairs at its home port of Yokosuka, while the freighter is docked in Yokohama, Japan.
__________________

Crew numbers are irrelevant.
Both ships are required to keep watch from the bridge at all times.

In sum:

ACX Crystal:
  • on autopilot,
  • did not radio Japanese CG for 30min > nobody one the bridge
  • nobody on bridge > did not see Fitzgerald visually or via radar.
  • Could not see Fitzgerald using AIS location data, since USN ships in the open see do not broadcast this (for security reasons)
  • If Fitzgerald had transfmitted AIS data, ACX Crystal would not have seen it (since nobody on the bridge)

Fitzgerald:
  • did not see ACX Crystal on radars (?),
  • did not spot ACX Crystal via AIS location data (?),
  • bridgewatch - if present - did not get a visual on ACX Crystal (?)

You should stop arguing with the feeble minded and the die hard nationalist.

They don't really care about the law, they care about pointing at the US to be at fault, (look at the German Dude post and you will know) They don't know jack shit about the rules, the law, what actually happened (Which none of us was privy to the detail anyway)

Talk to my cousin again over the e-mail, she said it most likely ended up charging the Philippine Crew for endangering life at sea, because they broke the first rule of navigation (Never Leave Your Pilot House Unattended), but then these people (some already did) would say this is US conspiracy lol.

This is simply nuts to continue argue with these diehard....
 
.
You should stop arguing with the feeble minded and the die hard nationalist.

They don't really care about the law, they care about pointing at the US to be at fault, (look at the German Dude post and you will know) They don't know jack shit about the rules, the law, what actually happened (Which none of us was privy to the detail anyway)

Talk to my cousin again over the e-mail, she said it most likely ended up charging the Philippine Crew for endangering life at sea, because they broke the first rule of navigation (Never Leave Your Pilot House Unattended), but then these people (some already did) would say this is US conspiracy lol.

This is simply nuts to continue argue with these diehard....
Unfortunately I will have to agree with you.
Japan has jurisdiction. Crystal is a civilian ship. It can be detain. It's radar record can be examine. It's crew can be interviewed. All these can be scrutinized for insignificant or irrelevant anomaly.
Can the same be done to a US Navy ship by the Japanese...? Can Japan detain the Fitzgerald....? Can the Fitzgerald radar record be examined.... ? Will we ever know the Fitzgerald's course and record...? Only the US Navy can investigate itself.

Try wining a case against that.
 
.
The US ship has high possibility of being found not guilty....But for the wrong reasons.


lol....this video is not about the investigation of the crash It did not even feature anything on the ACX Crystal (beside the first minute when they show it paths and by the way, 29000 tons is its empty weight, it have a deadweight of about 40000 tons, which make its loaded weight about 69,000 tons)

The video is about how US have been deploying overseas, stretching out the resource (While the program did not account for the two war the American was fighting in the middle east which is now over), Previous American Warship accident (Which they claim 25 + accident over the last 17 years, which is actually quite good if they have that high deployment rate as the same video claim) And how US can dodge their responsibility because of the US Military law forbade them being prosecuted by foreign government.

The whole program (80% of it) is not talking about the crash, they already made the assumption on the crash at US fault and talk about how they would be like that and how they can dodge the responsibility.

The whole IMO Convention to avoid Collision was mentioned in 2 sentences, without giving the full law (which also require the stand in ship the responsibility to avoid collision.)

lol 27 minutes of video, not once did they mentioned the Filippino crew, THe ACX Crystal route and the reason why it took them 1 hour to report the incident. They should not have the title about who's at fault in the collision, they should change it to US ship at fault and got away with it, even when the investigation is still on. LOL

Unfortunately I will have to agree with you.
Japan has jurisdiction. Crystal is a civilian ship. It can be detain. It's radar record can be examine. It's crew can be interviewed. All these can be scrutinized for insignificant or irrelevant anomaly.
Can the same be done to a US Navy ship by the Japanese...? Can Japan detain the Fitzgerald....? Can the Fitzgerald radar record be examined.... ? Will we ever know the Fitzgerald's course and record...? Only the US Navy can investigate itself.

Try wining a case against that.

The question is that not whether or not US can only investigate itself, question is, are these self-investigation open and transparent. I cannot name one country that are willing to publish shipborne communication publicly for an investigation of a collision involving a navy ship and a commercial shipping. But the US Navy does


The reason is there, and are valid, if a Chinese Warship collided with a Japanese commercial shipping, would you be allowing the Japanese Coast Guard to come on board and start ripping stuff up from Radar Log, to Comm to even personnel roster for an investigation?

I don't suppose anyone would do that, but then what afterward is, US Navy will and generally release document and audio and most importantly, report to the public.

Set aside this, there are obviously wrong doing part for the ACX crystal, they admitted they are on autopilot (Which should not be) and they have either failed to stop or cannot command the ship afterward (Which either a straight up negligence or negligence due to poor training), with the investigation just started, you are now talking about how US is going to done away with the responsibility? Are you god? Can you tell me the next lotto number? Because either you are BSing it and say something you do not know, or you can see into the future and tell me the outcome. Which are you? A Nut or A Psychics?
 
Last edited:
.
There is a joke which fits here.

"An US air carrier heading around the horn of africa. On it's radar it locates a barrier. The captain thinks it is another ship and shouts into his microphone "this is us carrier so and so. Correct your path immediatly to avoid collision. After a short quiet he receives an answer. No!." the captain is furious. He shouts again and threatens with his weapons. After another quiet he receives another answer. "this is the rock of gibraltar. We are a watchtower. If you dont want to sink your precious warship, you should better change your course!"

Lol

Amateurish and self deluded USNavy can only count on it's numbers. Their professionalism is below zero.

Remember the USN SSN which hit an underwater mountain because they used outdated sea maps.

What a joke of an imperialist clown navy. :)
 
.
So why "agile" and "cutting-edge" USS Fitzgerald with "professional" US sailors was unable to avoid this collision ??
Why do you not ask the same question for the ACX Crystal?

When it comes to Japanese investigation bear in mind that Japan is still under US occupation and US militarymen are raping Japanese women and children with immunity (source).
Sure, and present day Poland really still is under German occupation (i.e. really East Prussia). Or was it the Russians?
Again, all you give is lots of wild, unsubstantiated and irrelevant claims.

There are about the same number of US troops stationed in Japan as there are in Germany, which is hardly surprising as these are key Allies and these countries function as logistical hubs for other US deployments elsewhere. But then, by your reasoning, Germany and South Korea are 'occupied nations'. Oh, and don't foget to add Italy and UK to that 'US occupied countries' list, as there are more US troops there then there are in Iraq, and Italy has more US troops than Afghanistan.

us-personnel-chart-military.jpg

http://www.visualcapitalist.com/u-s-military-personnel-deployments-country/

Here are the top 20 countries they are stationed in, as well as an “Other” category that represents the rest:


Rank
Country / Territory U.S. Troops
#1 Japan 39,345
#2 Germany 34,805
#3 South Korea 23,468
#4 Italy 12,102
#5 Afghanistan 9,294
#6 United Kingdom 8,479
#7 Kuwait 6,296
#8 Iraq 5,540
#9 Bahrain 5,504
#10 Guam 3,831
#11 Spain 3,256
#12 Qatar 2,976
#13 Turkey 2,234
#14 Djibouti 1,961
#15 Jordan 1,759
#16 United Arab Emirates 1,079
#17 Belgium 842
#18 Cuba 806
#19 Romania 667
#20 Greece 407
Other / Unknown 34,834
Total 199,485

This is simply nuts to continue argue with these diehard....
I'm not arguing in order to convince them. Just to expose what idiots they are.
 
.
Though, I am not professional. My opinion is, a destroyer is equipped with sophisticated system of sensors and radars. How the destroyer unable to detect a huge ship in its sensitive limits/vicinity/zone?

It is simple. The crew was not aware at the moment the accident took place. This is a classic case of neglect.
 
. . .
Compare this to the Russian Naval accident when the freighter Youzarsif H (2100 tons) collided with the Russian ship Liman (1500t). The Russian ship sank.

Any guesses who built the Liman?

Liman was built as a hydrographic survey vessel not as military vessel. Only later it was converted to military use. Survey vessel is not the same as "agile" and "cutting-edge" USS Fitzgerald.

Why do you not ask the same question for the ACX Crystal?

Because nobody claims that ACX Crystal was "agile" and "cutting-edge", but some US “experts” like to claim that US Navy is “professional” and its ships "agile" and "cutting-edge".

Sure, and present day Poland really still is under German occupation (i.e. really East Prussia). Or was it the Russians?
Again, all you give is lots of wild, unsubstantiated and irrelevant claims.

It’s you who give lots of wild and irrelevant claims.

There are about the same number of US troops stationed in Japan as there are in Germany, which is hardly surprising as these are key Allies and these countries function as logistical hubs for other US deployments elsewhere. But then, by your reasoning, Germany and South Korea are 'occupied nations'. Oh, and don't foget to add Italy and UK to that 'US occupied countries' list, as there are more US troops there then there are in Iraq, and Italy has more US troops than Afghanistan.

"Catherine Fisher: At first I thought obviously I was the only rape victim in Japan by US military servicemen. But after doing my own research I realized that for the past 70 years US military servicemen have been raping, murdering and committing crimes against Okinawans ... Nobody was speaking up about it – the servicemen had received immunity. That is the reason why I wanted to speak up." (source)

Maybe you missed my previous posts so I will once again cite real expert - Constantine Sivkov who knows billion times more than you.

Incident With USS Fitzgerald Puts Its Readiness for Real Combat Into Question
21:27 19.06.2017(updated 21:33 19.06.2017)

The USS Fitzgerald destroyer hit a Philippine merchant vessel southwest of the Japanese city of Yokosuka on Saturday. All seven previously missing sailors from the destroyer were found dead on Monday. Sputnik spoke with military expert Constantine Sivkov and Vladimir Evseev in an interview about why the destroyer suffered major damage.

“Such accidents are always the result of a violation of the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions [at Sea] by one of the parties,” Sivkov said.

In this accident there was a human factor: a watch officer of the US destroyer showed negligence on his post.

“It is known that the blow came to the starboard side. According to international rules, the destroyer was obliged to give way, as it was observing the Philippine container ship on the starboard side. Since it did not do so, the fault lies entirely with the commander and the watch officer of the destroyer,” Sivkov said.

It was noted that the US destroyer received unusually heavy damage from the collision; the repairs will take a long time at the factory.

“Judging by the photographs, the blow came on the area of the central command post of the ship, or the ship's bridge. It was almost completely swept away,” the expert said.

“This means that the system which on the whole ensures the vital activity of this ship and its central management was destroyed. The destroyer has lost its combat capability,” Sivkov noted.
(...)

It is simple. The crew was not aware at the moment the accident took place. This is a classic case of neglect.

US Navy is guilty of neglect. That’s what I have been saying from the start. Some US militarymen think that they are exceptional and that they don't have to observe the rules.
 
.
Because nobody claims that ACX Crystal was "agile" and "cutting-edge", but some US “experts” like to claim that US Navy is “professional” and its ships "agile" and "cutting-edge".
SUre, you expect a shipbuilder to claim the ships they build are lame and sucky? Get a life.

It’s you who give lots of wild and irrelevant claims.
Just imitating your behaviour for bit, to show how silly it is.

"Catherine Fisher: At first I thought obviously I was the only rape victim in Japan by US military servicemen. But after doing my own research I realized that for the past 70 years US military servicemen have been raping, murdering and committing crimes against Okinawans ... Nobody was speaking up about it – the servicemen had received immunity. That is the reason why I wanted to speak up." (source)

Maybe you missed my previous posts so I will once again cite real expert - Constantine Sivkov who knows billion times more than you.

I don't care as the above is irrelevant. And you still keep up that Japan is an occupied country? Because you conveniently ignored that bit in your reply.

And as for your military expert, one Constatine Sivkov, funny how he has not much in the way of publically available credentials that can be verified, but I understand he is/was Corresponding Member of the Russian Academy of Missile and Artillery Sciences, Constantine Sivkov. Surely someone with a lot of naval expertise ....

This Vladimir Evseev, Ph.D, is Lieutenant Colonel, Head of Caucasus Department of the CIS Institute, DIrector of the Center for Public Policy Research, Academic Secretary of the Coordinating Council of the Russian Academy of Sciences (RAS) on forecasting. PhD, Public Policy Research, forecasting..... mmmm yeah, sounds like a hands-on sailor kinda guy too too, right?
 
.
SUre, you expect a shipbuilder to claim the ships they build are lame and sucky? Get a life.

Of course they will not admit it.
US Navy and US "experts" will never admit that US Navy is unprofessional and US ships are lame. US Navy will never admit that US Navy's neglect is to blame for the collision between USS Fitzgerald and ACX Crystal.


I don't care as the above is irrelevant. And you still keep up that Japan is an occupied country? Because you conveniently ignored that bit in your reply.

It is relevant. It shows that US militarymen are still to large extent above the law in Japan. US military servicemen commited rape and received immunity. But sooner or later US rap ... oh I mean militarymen will be kicked out of Japan.

And as for your military expert, one Constatine Sivkov, funny how he has not much in the way of publically available credentials that can be verified, but I understand he is/was Corresponding Member of the Russian Academy of Missile and Artillery Sciences, Constantine Sivkov. Surely someone with a lot of naval expertise ....

This Vladimir Evseev, Ph.D, is Lieutenant Colonel, Head of Caucasus Department of the CIS Institute, DIrector of the Center for Public Policy Research, Academic Secretary of the Coordinating Council of the Russian Academy of Sciences (RAS) on forecasting. PhD, Public Policy Research, forecasting..... mmmm yeah, sounds like a hands-on sailor kinda guy too too, right?

IMO he knows billion times more than you.
 
.

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom