US Senate warns Obama on Rouhani in letter signed by 76 lawmakers

[Armstrong]

Apneii @Hyperion Bhai nei bhi comment nahin kiyaa meriii posts peii !

 

[Secur]

@Yzd Khalifa

I await your answer , mate .

 

[Arabian Legend]

Indeed we are because we let the both of you in as did the Iraqis, the Lebanese (for a time) & now the Syrians !

Pakistan is a sovereign country mate, get the house in order and stop passing the buck.

 

[Armstrong]

Pakistan is a sovereign country mate, get the house in order and stop passing the buck.

Finally something we agree on !

Don't for a second think that I'm letting myself off the hook !

 

[idune]

KSA didn't deceive Pakistan in any way, come again Eastern Pakistani.

East Pakistan is in history now. How do you explain Saudi relation with india which is indirectly harming Pakistan and Bangladesh in many sense? You guys need to be think deeper how and whom you deal with and who you are affecting. And don't forget it was Bangladesh, which was one of the first countries sent troops to defend Saudi Arab and Kuwait from Saddam aggression.

 

[idune]

If Saudi Arab wants to deal with India which enable indian aggression and aggressive posture against Pakistan then that is something concerning for them. Same goes for Bangladesh as well. If Saudis think that is their interest nothing can be said about it. But then Saudis should not pretend to be something that they are not. Saudis should also not expect Pakistan not looking for it's own interest for Saudis sake.

 

[Desert Fox]

@Desert Fox - Dude, I think it goes beyond 'Pakistan's doing' alone !

Even when it comes to Afghanistan, if you read our Historical Relations with them, we extended a hand of friendship towards them at every possible opportunity ! And yet what did we get in turn ? Loy Afghanistan, Faqir of Ipi, allegations of trying to the influence the referendum of '48, Pashtunistan, aggressive posturing & even an invasion of Pakistan (Bajaur in the '60s) - All of that compelled us to respond in kind starting from supporting Hekmatyar & Masood against Daud Khan during the Bhutto Regime, a brainchild of Naseerullah Babar to supporting the Taliban when sh*t had literally hit the ceiling & even the support for Taliban must be understood in a particular context, time & space.

In their case its more of a my enemy's enemy is my friend than anything that we did !

The same is true with Iran ! When the Shah was at the helm of affairs - We had the best of relations ! Then the Ayatollah came & started looking for every shred of land with any Shia presence to export his Revolution to. Simultaneously the Saudis came & started doing their own thing !

End Result - We're foOked !

Therefore I say, with grim determination, stay away from the both of them - There is no need to cultivate relations with either that goes above & beyond normal trading & benign cooperation !

Look, i know the Afghans are a tough lot, and i'm not suggesting that we approach them and start showering them with flowers and start singing songs of love.

Which is why i said, we should mend our relations with Iran, and not only Iran, but also Tajikistan, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan. All of these countries share one thing in common with us, they BORDER Afghanistan and have been affected by the instability in that country in one negative form or another. Russia can also play a major part here.

Once we have settled our issues with them, then the Taliban and other Afghan factions will be compelled to seek peace from a weaker position and they will have no choice but to agree to our terms. This can include abandoning the Pashtunistan dream.

You can't have peace in Afghanistan with different entities supplying arms and money to different Afghan factions.

As long as Afghanistan is unstable it will make a good launch pad for attacks on Pakistan.

 

[Desert Fox]

Although I can't fully admit or deny any past role of my country in Pakistan, be it negative or positive, but I'm sure of one thing:
Security of Pakistan is security of Iran and vice versa. Any conflict in Pakistan,especially in western borders means trouble for us.Jundallah is an example where they exploited lack of security in Baloochestan province of Pakistan to execute hit and run attacks on us.
Just as you said neither Saudi Arabia nor any other Arab country borders Pakistan, it's Iran Afghanistan,India and China and if we don't think of something together, we are all doomed.

Just as you said, Pakistan should be first priority to all Pakistanis, the same for Iranians and a prospering Afghanistan and Pakistan is the best thing to happen on Iran's eastern borders.
We may not be great allies, but can be great friends and partners, and we have to.

Agreed.

Iran has been facing the problem of opium and other narcotics trafficking from Afghanistan since the past 30 years and the implications of this have been very bad on the Iranian people.

Thus, it is only logical that Pakistan and Iran cooperate together on bringing about a solution to the Afghan problem which has impacted our two countries the most.

Regarding india, i don't think they should be allowed any role in the peace process and rebuilding of Afghanistan as they are a enemy nation of Pakistan and would do anything to harm Pakistan's interest as has been witnessed in the past (training, supplying, and funding insurgency in East Pakistan, 1971). Neither does india border Afghanistan.

Inviting india to Afghanistan would be like inviting Saudis to Afghanistan, that would make Iranian uncomfortable.

Thus, only Pakistan, Iran, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan should cooperate in bringing a solution to the Afghan problem. Russia too can join in this group as they too have been victims of the drug trafficking flowing from Afghanistan.

Everyone , it would be worth keeping in mind that Iran seriously harmed the Pakistan's stance once on Kashmir despite no apparent reason to do so .

http://www.milligazette.com/news/333-how-iran-saved-india-in-1994-kashmir-UN-voting

Cut to March 1994. On a winter morning, with the Elbruz Mountains overlooking Tehran airport still under snow, braving cold winds, a special Indian military plane touched down. On board was an ailing Dinesh Singh, then External Affairs Minister, along with three others. Barely able to walk, Singh had been dragged out of a hospital bed to deliver an urgent letter from Prime Minister P. V. Narasimha Rao to Iranian President Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani. Incidentally, this was the last such tour in the 50-year diplomatic career of Singh.

The Organisation of Islamic Countries (OIC), supported by influential Western nations, was pushing a resolution at the UN Commission Human Rights (UNCHR), later rechristened as Human Rights Council, to condemn India for human right violations in Kashmir. The resolution, with UNCHR approval, was to be referred to the UN Security Council for initiating economic sanctions and other punitive measures against India. As in the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), in the OIC, too, decisions are by consensus.

Recalling how India was saved from disgrace, former ambassador and expert on Iranian affairs M K Bhadrakumar believes that Rao had shrewdly prevailed on Iran to abstain from voting. “Once there is no consensus in the OIC, the resolution was bound to fall through,” Bhadrakumar pointed out.

The Iranians had no clue to the Indian Minister’s mission. Casting aside protocol, Iranian Foreign Minister Dr. Ali Akbar Velayati was at the airport when Singh alighted. Velayati, asked what on earth could be of such momentous importance for Singh to risk a perilous journey in his precarious condition. In reply, Dinesh Singh smilingly handed over a demarche.

In the course of the day, he went through his “Kashmir brief” diligently in meetings with his Iranian interlocutors, namely, Velayati, President Rafsanjani and Iranian Majlis Speaker Nateq-Nouri. By evening, Singh retuned to his hospital bed in Delhi, but with an assurance from President Rafsanjani to Prime Minister Rao “that Iran will do all it can do to ensure that no harm comes to India.”

What Iran gained by obliging India is an abiding mystery. Only after 72 anxious hours did Delhi learn that Iran had killed the OIC move to table the resolution. This marked a new chapter in India-Iran relations with wider consequences. Iran distanced itself from Pakistan in the matter of Afghanistan; and, India joined hands with Iran to promote the Northern Alliance, which was inimical to Pakistani interests. Pakistan was shocked by what it termed as “backstabbing”.

India later back stabbed Iran at the IAEA.

But you see, that's the difference between us and the indians. They are quick to capitalize on our weaknesses, meanwhile we sit back, high on the "Islamic brotherhood" drug, seeing illusions of Islamic brotherhood.

We should have capitalized on the indian betrayal of Iran at the IAEA just as the indians capitalized on the Pakistan-Iranian rift over Pakistan's siding with the Arabs.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

@Secur

Sorry man, I was dashing to get a bite to eat prior to the dawn.

I fail to understand why Pakistan would approve any such thing , mate . What sense does it make

Kindly, please re-read my post again. I never said that KSA needs Pakistan's approval or vice versa, I BOLDLY said that it falls under the category of consultations

have you worked with the Govt of Pakistan

I answered your question earlier in this thread.

Friend , if you aren't aware , in the 80's , your country exported an ideology to us and trust me , it has harmed Pakistan more than anything else . There are whole religious institutions running in our country with the money from the Kingdom that promote nothing but extremism . What should I call that , then ?

In the 80s the situation was too complicated that both of Pakistan and KSA chose to act unilaterally to do whatever it takes to protect Pakistan from the USSR after the invasion of Afghanistan. It was a catastrophic mistake, we created the Taliban to counter Iran, and Afghanistan offered a safe heaven to the Arab Afghans - who later emerged with a new group called Al-Qaida - the Arab Afghans were rich that they could have taken care of themselves on their own. However, I would openly admit that both of KSA and Pakistan did something foolish, but we never had a choice, the game was either to make Pakistan an easy pray for the Soviet, or else.

Speaking of the financing of death squads, KSA had problems with tracking down the deposited cash from KSA to individuals overseas. Some of these deposits were used to finance radical groups here and there, but the problem is solved now, finally.

We did pay for it here in Saudi Arabia, but I don't think anybody would given a rat about the hundreds of people who perished at the hand of savage Al-Qaida terrorists.

List of militant incidents in Saudi Arabia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

East Pakistan is in history now. How do you explain Saudi relation with india which is indirectly harming Pakistan and Bangladesh in many sense? You guys need to be think deeper how and whom you deal with and who you are affecting. And don't forget it was Bangladesh, which was one of the first countries sent troops to defend Saudi Arab and Kuwait from Saddam aggression.

Eastern Pakistan didn't send a damn solider to KSA, I'm not a Kuwaiti though, so please, put that back into your pocket. If you want to talk about betrayal, then remember who betrayed whom. KSA at least is a frank white, not like other countries, we tell it like it is, and it isn't our fault that you don't like it.

I don't think you can speak for the whole nation of Pakistan, so please give us a break.

 

[Secur]

@Secur

Sorry man, I was dashing to get a bite to eat prior to the dawn.

Kindly, please re-read my post again. I never said that KSA needs Pakistan's approval or vice versa, I BOLDLY said that it falls under the category of consultations

I answered your question earlier in this thread.

In the 80s the situation was too complicated that both of Pakistan and KSA chose to act unilaterally to do whatever it takes to protect Pakistan from the USSR after the invasion of Afghanistan. It was a catastrophic mistake, we created the Taliban to counter Iran, and Afghanistan offered a safe heaven to the Arab Afghans - who later emerged with a new group called Al-Qaida - the Arab Afghans were rich that they could have taken care of themselves on their own. However, I would openly admit that both of KSA and Pakistan did something foolish, but we never had a choice, the game was either to make Pakistan an easy pray for the Soviet, or else.

Speaking of the financing of death squads, KSA had problems with tracking down the deposited cash from KSA to individuals overseas. Some of these deposits were used to finance radical groups here and there, but the problem is solved now, finally.

We did pay for it here in Saudi Arabia, but I don't think anybody would given a rat about the hundreds of people who perished at the hand of savage Al-Qaida terrorists.

No problem , mate .

I can understand the ' consultation ' part . I just cant understand , why Pakistan would have approved of this act . No , I asked that in what capacity , have you worked with my Govt .

Let me make one thing clear - I personally admit the blunders of the then Govt of Pakistan to fight a war of two superpowers for a leader's own delusions of grandeur , by creating and exaggerating the myth of ' Soviet Union coming to Warm Waters ' to the extent that it seemed like an imminent danger to the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Pakistan . Nothing , could be farther than the truth since the Soviets weren't even remotely hopeful for a victory in Afghanistan and stabilization of the communist regime . The economic gas was coming out of the reds . Islamabad was no pushover when they were having difficulties with their economy and on the other side of Khyber Pass . Whatever , trouble the Afghans made for Pakistan , since the beginning had been dealt effectively , paid in kind and was nothing that we couldn't handle . I do not blame the Kingdom for trying to counter Tehran through the Afghanistan and play their rivalry here , I blame the then leader and military establishment for letting it all happen , since hadn't we allowed the KSA , nothing of course would have been done . The radicalization and extremism has been the worst problem that Pakistan has faced in my country - it is the cause of the majority of problems we face today as a nation . We never thought the long term effects of breeding psychopaths for our purposes , with a whole new set of Madarsas making Jihadis with an imported ideology making the masses radicalized ensured that the problem would present itself with extreme severity just two decades later . I am aware that today , the Kingdom has curbed all financing to the radical groups but the damage , my friend , is already done . Though , I am deeply saddened by the deaths of Saudi citizens at the hands of the terrorist , our causality count is much much higher .

 

[Hyperion]

So much love being spread here, and I've been away.... what a shame...... people..... wait for me..... I'll be back in couple of hours.....

@Armstrong @Secur @Yzd Khalifa

 

[idune]

Eastern Pakistan didn't send a damn solider to KSA, I'm not a Kuwaiti though, so please, put that back into your pocket. If you want to talk about betrayal, then remember who betrayed whom. KSA at least is a frank white, not like other countries, we tell it like it is, and it isn't our fault that you don't like it. I don't think you can speak for the whole nation of Pakistan, so please give us a break.

If you are decent enough you would not call Bangladesh "East Pakistan". That is too much to ask from some Saudis. No one talking about Pakistan official stand here. Discussion here is Saudi Arab is enabling indian aggression and damaging Pakistan security and interest. That is a fair and clear observation by anyone. You Saudis could not explain Saudi policy, instead resorting to insult.

 

[Arabian Legend]

If you are decent enough you would not call Bangladesh "East Pakistan". That is too much to ask from some Saudis. No one talking about Pakistan official stand here. Discussion here is Saudi Arab is enabling indian aggression and damaging Pakistan security and interest. That is a fair and clear observation by anyone. You Saudis could not explain Saudi policy, instead resorting to insulting.

Zip it off or tell us How is Saudi Arabia harming pakistan and Bangladesh.? In what sense exactly?

 

[idune]

Zip it off or tell us How is Saudi Arabia harming pakistan and Bangladesh.? In what sense exactly?

Don't use tone like you own something or someone, this is not Saudi Arab. Saudi defence and starategic interaction with india definitely enabling indian aggression. Here is one such example where Saudi Arab adapting to indian line and then giving india something to run their propaganda.

Among those issues are Pakistan-India relations. Abdullah is said to have inquired about the state of normalisation talks between Pakistan and India. It’s likely that Saudi officials went into some detail regarding their government’s extradition of alleged Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) operative Abu Jundal to India. Abu Jundal has reportedly pointed towards ISI involvement in the November 2008 Mumbai attacks.

Among those issues are Pakistan-India relations. Abdullah is said to have inquired about the state of normalisation talks between Pakistan and India. It’s likely that Saudi officials went into some detail regarding their government’s extradition of alleged Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) operative Abu Jundal to India. Abu Jundal has reportedly pointed towards ISI involvement in the November 2008 Mumbai attacks.

Shifting Pakistan and Saudi Arabia relations – The Express Tribune

Saudi defence and strategic relation (or look the other way policy) enabling indian in many ways continue killing in Kashmir.

As for Bangladesh, Saudi Arab let indians runs propaganda in Saudi media against Bangladeshis.

 

[Arabian Legend]

Don't use tone like you own something or someone, this is not Saudi Arab. Saudi defence and starategic interaction with india definitely enabling indian aggression. Here is one such example where Saudi Arab adapting to indian line and then giving india something to run their propaganda.

Its Saudi Arabia

Saudi defence and strategic relation (or look the other way policy) enabling indian in many ways continue killing in Kashmir.

As for Bangladesh, Saudi Arab let indians runs propaganda in Saudi media against Bangladeshis.

Yo, stop running your mouth you are hitting right and left.

Are you suggesting that Pakistan was behind the 2008 attack?

Also, We hardly see anything about BD in our media, let alone running propaganda on behalf of indians, and for what? BD has Zero influence inside today-political arena. Your post is trash Mr, Abu Jundal sympathizer Saudi Arabia will not tolerate terrorists on its soil period.