US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo meets PM Imran in Islamabad

[BHarwana]

jinx mat kar maloom nahee yeh kya bulayga wapis US mein ah kar

bata raha hoon yeh CIA ka banda hay-they really are the masters of deception

CIA is second grade organisation.
Idhar bahut saay majnu rul gaay hain.

 

[Solomon2]

Can any one say USA gave any hard message from this image

Yes. It means the U.S. won't trust Pakistan unless both the civilian and military leaderships are sitting at the same table; the old pattern of the two leaderships negotiating separately (and pointing fingers at each other as an excuse to do nothing) is unacceptable.

 

[Khanate]

What terrorist?

U.S. does not consider Afghan Taliban a terrorist group. Moreover, U.S. officials have met Afghan Taliban directly themselves. This blame game doesn't have any legs.

• Top US official meets Afghan Taliban in Qatar (Dawn)
• U.S. Diplomats Held Face-to-Face Talks With Taliban, Insurgents Say (NYTimes)
• WSJ: American diplomats met face-to-face with Taliban last week (CNN)

 

[BHarwana]

Yes. It means the U.S. won't trust Pakistan unless both the civilian and military leaderships are sitting at the same table; the old pattern of the two leaderships negotiating separately (and pointing fingers at each other as an excuse to do nothing) is unacceptable.

I like your sense of humour. USA trusts or not USA is in need and is no shape to dictate. Pompeo had a pleasant meeting and no gains for USA in diplomacy because it is just a start for new relationship.

 

[LeGenD]

I am the most humble person you will ever meet but being untouchable is not a illusion it is a reality. Pakistan is very hard to touch trust me on this. Seriously Pakistan is very hard to touch. Don't believe me go ask the Soviets.
We are not enemies of USA we are friends. We are only enemies of our enemies.

You might be a humble person (which is really good by the way ), but their are certain things which I understand well and openly convey in good faith.

US is not dysfunctional USSR of the 1980s. I do not say this in order to intimidate, but this is the hard truth. US have been through some excessively dark episodes, and came out stronger each time. Their is something in this country that many fail to comprehend, from the outside. And US is never afraid to confront.

US have imposed heavy sanctions on Russia and China, let alone DPRK and Iran. Russian economy took a heavy hit whereas DPRK and Iran in deep shit. Even China is feeling pressure.

Pakistan is not really hard to touch because its weaknesses are significant. Pakistan's economy is not in good shape and it finds itself in FATF grey list on top. Now, this position will either shift to FATF black list (i.e. heavy sanctions and/or penalties) or clear (i.e. gateway to recovery), depending upon how it engage US. Even as a Pakistani, I can clearly see that US have done its homework in advance.

PTI-led government is 'negotiating its course' with US, with good diplomacy. Nothing more; nothing less.

I am aware that the talks weren't one-sided. Both sides conveyed to each other what they wanted to convey, but the overall tone of discussion was positive.

PTI-led government have conveyed to the American delegation that US should re-examine history of PTI and what it wants to accomplish, and devise its engagement plans accordingly. TBH, this was bold and excellent message.

PTI-led government ignored the matter of 300 million USD Coalition Fund payment package which was frozen recently, in its discussions with American delegation. I absolutely agree with this decision. No need to beg for such reimbursements.

PTI-led government is willing to cooperate with US in the matters concerning Afghanistan. This was an important gesture from our side, and had a soothing effect.

PTI-led government also conveyed to the American delegation to discourage India from creating a disturbing environment across LOC because Pakistan finds it really difficult to manage two fronts at a time. Good point, IMO.

There were additional exchanges of mutual interest. Pompeo did convey his points in clear terms including the need to avoid "he said; she said politics."

Anyways; Allah Almighty have instructed all believers to be humble, and we should be.

No need to paint a rosy picture, and no need for posturing (there wasn't any). Sharp diplomacy, good agenda and prayers.

 

[TMA]

You might be a humble person (which is really good by the way ), but their are certain things which I understand well and openly convey in good faith.

US is not dysfunctional USSR of the 1980s. I do not say this in order to intimidate, but this is the hard truth. US have been through some excessively dark episodes, and came out stronger each time. Their is something in this country that many fail to comprehend, from the outside. And US is never afraid to confront.

US have imposed heavy sanctions on Russia and China, let alone DPRK and Iran. Russian economy took a heavy hit whereas DPRK and Iran in deep shit. Even China is feeling pressure.

Pakistan is not really hard to touch because its weaknesses are significant. Pakistan's economy is not in good shape and it finds itself in FATF grey list on top. Now, this position will either shift to FATF black list (i.e. heavy sanctions and/or penalties) or clear (i.e. gateway to recovery), depending upon how it engage US. Even as a Pakistani, I can clearly see that US have done its homework in advance.

PTI-led government is 'negotiating its course' with US, with good diplomacy. Nothing more; nothing less.

I am aware that the talks weren't one-sided. Both sides conveyed to each other what they wanted to convey, but the overall tone of discussion was positive.

PTI-led government have conveyed to the American delegation that US should re-examine history of PTI and what it wants to accomplish, and devise its engagement plans accordingly. TBH, this was bold and excellent message.

PTI-led government ignored the matter of 300 million USD Coalition Fund payment package which was frozen recently, in its discussions with American delegation. I absolutely agree with this decision. No need to beg for such reimbursements.

PTI-led government is willing to cooperate with US in the matters concerning Afghanistan. This was an important gesture from our side, and had a soothing effect.

PTI-led government also conveyed to the American delegation to discourage India from creating a disturbing environment in Kashmir because Pakistan finds it really difficult to manage two fronts at a time. Good point, IMO.

There were additional exchanges of mutual interest. Pompeo did convey his points in clear terms including the need to avoid "he said; she said politics."

Amyways; Allah Almighty have instructed all believers to be humble, and we should be.

No need to paint a rosy picture, and no need for posturing (there wasn't any). Sharp diplomacy, good agenda and prayers.

Perhaps you should also convey to Bharwana that it is the Dajjal who is the power behind the US at the moment and the USA is trying to do his bidding...

 

[LeGenD]

Perhaps you should also convey to Bharwana that it is the Dajjal who is the power behind the US at the moment and the USA is trying to do his bidding...

Bro,

Nobody understand Dajjal and/or its mechanisms. I do not claim to, at personal capacity.

Perhaps, Hazrat Isa (PBUH) will clarify certain things to the world at large upon his return (assuming the prophesy is true).

What I know that we will be answerable for our deeds to the one true Lord after the hour, at individual capacity.

 

[Shane]

I have been sick of hearing all the stupid talk on Tele about the usual US demand of "do more" and Pakistan's Stance of "No more". Its school level stuff but for our media its rocket science.
US has a harsh stated position about Pakistan that it is not doing enough to help US's war on terrorism. It is clear as daylight and they have their reasons for such a demand and so do we have our so what else is new but our media selling its stale old Manjan.

What people don't understand is that US is not interested in what Pakistan is doing regarding its own terror problem or TTP, not one single bit, zilch, zero, nada, but on the contrary, US wants Pakistan to concentrate on Afghan Taliban and either help bring about peace in Afghanistan or become punching bag to take the blame for its failure in Afghanistan.

In simple words, Uncle Sam does not want you to have good relations with Afghan Taliban but at the same time it wants Pakistan to help bring Afghan Taliban to the table of negotiation. How absurd of a do more demand is that? It is a very clear contradiction as Pakistan has all but alienated Afghan Taliban due to US pressure and after throwing out Afghan Taliban's known relatives and families from Pakistan and pushed most of them back into Afghanistan, we have very little left to play with.

At the same time, Trump's USA wants Pakistan to take the blame for the failure of US Forces in Afghanistan due to Pakistan's failure in facilitating these two completely opposite demands stated above.

Since Pakistan cannot do more on either count due to unavailability of resources and its policy of Alienating Afghan Taliban to such an extent, since Gen Bajwa took over, that we have lost the leverage over the very same. Why would afghan factions listen to Pakistan now that they are angry at us for taking back even such low level support as hosting their families.

Big super powers have big super egos too, more so when their is a egoistic president in-charge.

There is more to the US's demands than just do more. Trump knows what he is doing by asking Pakistan something that it can hardly deliver in the first place as it suits his narrative to blame Pakistan for US failure in the region and use us as a punching bag to subjugate us on other regional issues. We cannot be a strong ally of China if we are crippled by the US and made to accept India's economic and military hegemony as well as control over Pakistan's waters as much as possible in the region to shape up the future to come.

What Pakistan should need from the USA is to get it to largely militarily dis-engaged from actual war footing in Afghanistan in the near future and at the same time, if Pakistan manages to some how convince and bring Afghan Taliban to the negotiating table then we should bargain with the US to change its policy in the region towards us. Not only Negotiating a way out with Taliban but highlighting it as - Ending the war in Afghanistan - can be marketed to Trump as the highest achievement of his administration and a shining star of his legacy.

The best policy change towards Pakistan that we can achieve is it to manage to make the Trump administration recognize our efforts as good little allies and instead of any Aid or even reimbursement; Just leave Pakistan alone and not stand in our way in improving trade/ business/ military relations with the rest of the world. That could be the best out come to hope from this impulsive and tripping Trump Administration - to leave us alone and get busy somewhere else.

We can work our way out of current economic mess if US does not continue its efforts to undermine and weaken Pakistan's own to improve its trade and business relationship with the rest of the world.

If Imran Khan can manage US relations and negotiate a way out with the Taliban and the US then it will be a big achievement of his first term in office, in sha Allah.

 

[El Sidd]

I have been sick of hearing all the stupid talk on Tele about the usual US demand of "do more" and Pakistan's Stance of "No more". Its school level stuff but for our media its rocket science.
US has a harsh stated position about Pakistan that it is not doing enough to help US's war on terrorism. It is clear as daylight and they have their reasons for such a demand and so do we have our so what else is new but our media selling its stale old Manjan.

What people don't understand is that US is not interested in what Pakistan is doing regarding its own terror problem or TTP, not one single bit, zilch, zero, nada, but on the contrary, US wants Pakistan to concentrate on Afghan Taliban and either help bring about peace in Afghanistan or become punching bag to take the blame for its failure in Afghanistan.

In simple words, Uncle Sam does not want you to have good relations with Afghan Taliban but at the same time it wants Pakistan to help bring Afghan Taliban to the table of negotiation. How absurd of a do more demand is that? It is a very clear contradiction as Pakistan has all but alienated Afghan Taliban due to US pressure and after throwing out Afghan Taliban's known relatives and families from Pakistan and pushed most of them back into Afghanistan, we have very little left to play with.

At the same time, Trump's USA wants Pakistan to take the blame for the failure of US Forces in Afghanistan due to Pakistan's failure in facilitating these two completely opposite demands stated above.

Since Pakistan cannot do more on either count due to unavailability of resources and its policy of Alienating Afghan Taliban to such an extent, since Gen Bajwa took over, that we have lost the leverage over the very same. Why would afghan factions listen to Pakistan now that they are angry at us for taking back even such low level support as hosting their families.

Big super powers have big super egos too, more so when their is a egoistic president in-charge.

There is more to the US's demands than just do more. Trump knows what he is doing by asking Pakistan something that it can hardly deliver in the first place as it suits his narrative to blame Pakistan for US failure in the region and use us as a punching bag to subjugate us on other regional issues. We cannot be a strong ally of China if we are crippled by the US and made to accept India's economic and military hegemony as well as control over Pakistan's waters as much as possible in the region to shape up the future to come.

What Pakistan should need from the USA is to get it to largely militarily dis-engaged from actual war footing in Afghanistan in the near future and at the same time, if Pakistan manages to some how convince and bring Afghan Taliban to the negotiating table then we should bargain with the US to change its policy in the region towards us. Not only Negotiating a way out with Taliban but highlighting it as - Ending the war in Afghanistan - can be marketed to Trump as the highest achievement of his administration and a shining star of his legacy.

The best policy change towards Pakistan that we can achieve is it to manage to make the Trump administration recognize our efforts as good little allies and instead of any Aid or even reimbursement; Just leave Pakistan alone and not stand in our way in improving trade/ business/ military relations with the rest of the world. That could be the best out come to hope from this impulsive and tripping Trump Administration - to leave us alone and get busy somewhere else.

We can work our way out of current economic mess if US does not continue its efforts to undermine and weaken Pakistan's own to improve its trade and business relationship with the rest of the world.

If Imran Khan can manage US relations and make the Americans realize that they have achieved their goal of killing Osama and dismantelling Al-Qaida in Afghanistan - that their goal is alrady achieved - and they should negotiate a way out with the Taliban then it will be a big achievement of his first term in office, in sha Allah.

Americans are not stupid to just pack up and leave Afghanistan.

They actually need to remain there for their own benefit.

The role of Afghanistan in Pak-American relations is grossly exaggerated.

 

[Shane]

Americans are not stupid to just pack up and leave Afghanistan.

They actually need to remain there for their own benefit.

Who said that but largely dis-engage from war footing? They can remain there for their own benefit as long as they want or negotiate for.

What Pakistan should need from the USA is to get it to largely militarily dis-engaged from actual war footing in Afghanistan in the near future

I mostly hear posters question policies and stated positions and don't come up with any options or possible way out as a substitute of what has been going on without any end. One thing that we all hear but still ignore from all sides is that a political solution is the only way out for a peaceful Afghanistan.

 

[El Sidd]

Which means that in case of "India-sponsored" internal rebellion Pakistan's nuclear weapons are to be employed within the territory of Pakistan. If I was Pakistani I would not find that line of thought reassuring in the least. Do you?

Better to include the same clause for India as for Pakistan and revise the doctrine, yes?

You have been harping the same ballad quite too often.

You should realise Pakistan does not need a new reason to nuke India if it wants. India militarily is a sitting duck.

The proverbial golden sparrow will lay eggs on our pleasure.

Who said that but largely dis-engage from war footing? They can remain there for their own benefit as long as they want or negotiate for.

19 more years

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

You might be a humble person (which is really good by the way ), but their are certain things which I understand well and openly convey in good faith.

US is not dysfunctional USSR of the 1980s. I do not say this in order to intimidate, but this is the hard truth. US have been through some excessively dark episodes, and came out stronger each time. Their is something in this country that many fail to comprehend, from the outside. And US is never afraid to confront.

US have imposed heavy sanctions on Russia and China, let alone DPRK and Iran. Russian economy took a heavy hit whereas DPRK and Iran in deep shit. Even China is feeling pressure.

Pakistan is not really hard to touch because its weaknesses are significant. Pakistan's economy is not in good shape and it finds itself in FATF grey list on top. Now, this position will either shift to FATF black list (i.e. heavy sanctions and/or penalties) or clear (i.e. gateway to recovery), depending upon how it engage US. Even as a Pakistani, I can clearly see that US have done its homework in advance.

PTI-led government is 'negotiating its course' with US, with good diplomacy. Nothing more; nothing less.

I am aware that the talks weren't one-sided. Both sides conveyed to each other what they wanted to convey, but the overall tone of discussion was positive.

PTI-led government have conveyed to the American delegation that US should re-examine history of PTI and what it wants to accomplish, and devise its engagement plans accordingly. TBH, this was bold and excellent message.

PTI-led government ignored the matter of 300 million USD Coalition Fund payment package which was frozen recently, in its discussions with American delegation. I absolutely agree with this decision. No need to beg for such reimbursements.

PTI-led government is willing to cooperate with US in the matters concerning Afghanistan. This was an important gesture from our side, and had a soothing effect.

PTI-led government also conveyed to the American delegation to discourage India from creating a disturbing environment across LOC because Pakistan finds it really difficult to manage two fronts at a time. Good point, IMO.

There were additional exchanges of mutual interest. Pompeo did convey his points in clear terms including the need to avoid "he said; she said politics."

Anyways; Allah Almighty have instructed all believers to be humble, and we should be.

No need to paint a rosy picture, and no need for posturing (there wasn't any). Sharp diplomacy, good agenda and prayers.

President Trump is after all an American CEO to the core of his brains, bones and heart!!! And, a damn mean one if not one of the meanest!!! And, he made money from a field which attracts the worst scums in the american society!!! Thanks to my long years working in companies run by such mean CEOs I have the following observations about them:

• It's like: What have you done for me tomorrow????
• $# in Debit >>> $# in Credit
• "Firing" is their middle name. Everyone is expendable
• Results by the quarter-end
• Demands extreme honesty and sincerity from the sub-ordinates, clients, customers, suppliers etc.; whereas, they themselves can be extremely dishonest
• Ends justify any means
• No free lunches
• Wishes best for the self, but the worst for the others
• Extremely narcissist, and extreme disdain, distrust and hatred for everyone else
• The closer the employee to the CEO in hierarchy (getting top $s) the more at the receiving end
• Takes great pride in their Devilish nature

Pak needs to charter her strategies accordingly...

 

[Beskar]

Great body language throughout and a firm grip on Pakistan's realities. Really loved how Bajwa slammed the glass on the desk for the US General. All the bottles were down, only General Bajwa's was standing straight. Hope they picked up the message because clearly those cowboys are treading on the wrong terrain.

Meeting in a nutshell;

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Hey guys I listened to this talk by SMQ but I failed to pick some points because of my weak Urdu. Can anybody with good command of Urdu give bullet points please. Much appreciated. In particular did he say Pompeo told him US will not be in Afghanistan for long? And that the meeting was very constructive and ended on a good note with both sides seeing considerable convergence?

 

[pzfz]

The bluster and posturing from pompeo and co. was reassuringly missing from the talks. Good that Pak didn't overreact with its own bluster. Good that Pak didn't make any promises or assurances, not that the u.s. was in any position to ask for them. Pak's interest in afg is for the instability that afg creates and exports to be pushed back into what is still afg and let the hapless populous and whomever is trying to tame it deal with it. Nothing more, nothing less. And for that Pak does not need anyone besides itself. Does the govt realize this simple fact? and even if it did, is it willing to do something about it?