US says making progress in aircraft carrier collaboration with India

[knight11]

1. Don't put the term " INDIA US STRATEGIC TIES". Till now they haven't done anything which proves this usage.
While we haggle with them for 145 M777, they ship hundreds of 155mm SPHs, tracked ones ,towed ones, big amounts of Small weapons, night vision systems , communication systems, bullet proof vests, MRAPs, Missiles, Radars, gunships, fighter jets , naval vessels, Anti Tank missiles, vehicles , all for free. .... till 2015, last year to our neighbour.
Name " one " offensive weapon which they have shipped to India while talking about STRATEGIC ties?
Its like we are paying for pakistani acquisitions indirectly. Also note it down, before we receive our first apache, pakis will be receiving their first super cobra.
So much for a strategic relationship.

1. During cold war US allow Canada to supply India heavy water for the nuclear plant.
2. It is the US that provides training and support for the ISRO scientists
3. All test pilots including the carrier pilots of Mig21K gets training in US for the carrier operations and not from Russia.
4. During Sanction Period US didn't stopped the supply of F404IN GE engine for owr LCA Tejas.
5. Our first carrier from UK and various naval warships had US inputs.
6. It was US that allows indians to get SONAR Tech, which you called now indegenous.
7. FBW of LCA, and all israeli electronics have US components.

2.Commonality of F414? Common buddy.... then going for Rafale will mean commanility too.

Rafale commonitiy with few missiles and amunition, and I am talking about the engine, MRO, Spares, support and upgradation F414EPE.

3. Cheaper? You are saying an American jet will be cheaper? Buddy, just be sure , it will cost us similar or more than buying Rafales as a package with even less freedom on its usage.

Fighter planes produced in numbers bring the cost down buddy, and check the output of the Boeing and Dassault, you will get the answer. And as far as freedom is concerned, who will give this guarantee -- You or Paris or Washington.

4. Learning US weapons?

Yes -- MMR, Jammers, BVR, WVR

 

[Ankit Kumar]

1. During cold war US allow Canada to supply India heavy water for the nuclear plant.
2. It is the US that provides training and support for the ISRO scientists
3. All test pilots including the carrier pilots of Migfigets training in US for the carrier operations and not from Russia.
4. During Sanction Period US didn't stopped the supply of F404IN GE engine for owr LCA Tejas.
5. Our first carrier from UK and various naval warships had US inputs.
6. It was US that allows indians to get SONAR Tech, which you called now indegenous.
7. FBW of LCA, and all israeli electronics have US components.



Rafale commonitiy with few missiles and amunition, and I am talking about the engine, MRO, Spares, support and upgradation F414EPE.



Fighter planes produced in numbers bring the cost down buddy, and check the output of the Boeing and Dassault, you will get the answer. And as far as freedom is concerned, who will give this guarantee -- You or Paris or Washington.



Yes -- MMR, Jammers, BVR, WVR

1. Supply of heavy water doesn't conveys much, did they continue to supply us after the 74?

2. They do it for Pakistan too, and numerous other smaller space programs and corporations. Nothing big. Nothing which proves " STRATEGIC PARTNER " term.

3. They used to , but now we use our own facility which was made with " RUSSIAN HELP ".
By the way the number of pakistani special forces getting trained in US is higher. Not only training , but US arms them too. So much for a " STRATEGIC RELATIONSHIP ".

4.Do provide suitable links to prove it.

5. Various Inputs? Buying Gas turbines and using it is not a big thing. Actually the number of American Gas Turbines used by China in Chinese naval vessels is more. Again this does nothing to prove " STRATEGIC RELATIONSHIP. "

6. Again provide suitable links.

7. That's a thanks for Israel.
Don't you think if we were a strategic ally for them, they would have gave access to those systems themselves?


Going for Sea Gripen will also mean commanility with 414, the question is that are we getting a TOT?

One more thing which came to my mind. Americans and equally some Indians were jumping when they proposed local manufacturing for Ravens in India. Is it something to brag about the " Strategic Relationship " when US has already supplied the same much earlier and free of cost to Pakistan ?

We are being fooled by this " India US Strategic relationship ", nothing else.

 

[knight11]

1. Supply of heavy water doesn't conveys much, did they continue to supply us after the 74?

Not only supply of heavy water, infact the first nuclear plant in tarapore and the bhaba atomic research center. Don't think that that was with the help of the Russia.

2. They do it for Pakistan too, and numerous other smaller space programs and corporations. Nothing big. Nothing which proves " STRATEGIC PARTNER " term.

LOLZ, do you really think that ISRO achieve first mars expedition on the one go and the regional positional satellite aka IRNSS without the help of NASA.

3. They used to , but now we use our own facility which was made with " RUSSIAN HELP ".
By the way the number of pakistani special forces getting trained in US is higher. Not only training , but US arms them too. So much for a " STRATEGIC RELATIONSHIP ".

LOLZ, sorry to burst the bubble but all IN pilots and test pilots get trained in US, not Russia for the carrier operation. And IAF donot follow the Soviet/russian Doctrine.

4.Do provide suitable links to prove it.

Pls help yourself, for you kind information 14 F404 engine were ordered, and the first consignment reached during the sanction period, and total number of F404 engine in the country is 39 period. Rest help yourself.

5. Various Inputs? Buying Gas turbines and using it is not a big thing. Actually the number of American Gas Turbines used by China in Chinese naval vessels is more. Again this does nothing to prove " STRATEGIC RELATIONSHIP. "

The point was the first aircraft carrier of India was British, but was the US design.

6. Again provide suitable links.

There are many. Just google it, you won't be disappointed for that.

7. That's a thanks for Israel.
Don't you think if we were a strategic ally for them, they would have gave access to those systems themselves?

Without US aproval, just forget any Israeli MMR for India due to the fact that many Israeli components are developed as JV or with the US finance assistant.

Going for Sea Gripen will also mean commanility with 414, the question is that are we getting a TOT?

There is not a single Sea Grippen in the world. And the point was F414IN6 EPE and AVIC TCV which is most probable for the AMCA.

One more thing which came to my mind. Americans and equally some Indians were jumping when they proposed local manufacturing for Ravens in India. Is it something to brag about the " Strategic Relationship " when US has already supplied the same much earlier and free of cost to Pakistan ?

Ravens for India ?? I am not the gingo type who jumped for the Raven, when I know very well all AESA MMR whether Russian, US, European, Chinese, ISraeli uses the components from the Canadian and the US firm including the IR/TR components, and the Processor. In case of the Radar, its mostly software or the algorithm, where Israeli have the field experience which is important and it depends on the strategy and the weapon choice which plays important part in choosing the MMR.

We are being fooled by this " India US Strategic relationship ", nothing else.

Infact, there was always US-Indo relationship, due the fact that India have one thing very important in the world and that is Democracy. Rest you can discuss for the death any speculation.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

Not only supply of heavy water, infact the first nuclear plant in tarapore and the bhaba atomic research center. Don't think that that was with the help of the Russia.



LOLZ, do you realltrahat ISRO achieve first mars expedition on the one go and the regional positional satellite aka IRNSS without the help of NASA.



LOLZ, sorry to burst the bubble but all IN pilots and test pilots get trained in US, not Russia for the carrier operation. And IAF donot follow the Soviet/russian Doctrine.




Pls help yourself, for you kind information 14 F404 engine were ordered, and the first consignment reached during the sanction period, and total number of F404 engine in the country is 39 period. Rest help yourself.



The point was the first aircraft carrier of India was British, but was the US design.



There are many. Just google it, you won't be disappointed for that.




Without US aproval, just forget any Israeli MMR for India due to the fact that many Israeli components are developed as JV or with the US finance assistant.



There is not a single Sea Grippen in the world. And the point was F414IN6 EPE and AVIC TCV which is most probable for the AMCA.



Ravens for India ?? I am not the gingo type who jumped for the Raven, when I know very well all AESA MMR whether Russian, US, European, Chinese, ISraeli uses the components from the Canadian and the US firm including the IR/TR components, and the Processor. In case of the Radar, its mostly software or the algorithm, where Israeli have the field experience which is important and it depends on the strategy and the weapon choice which plays important part in choosing the MMR.




Infact, there was always US-Indo relationship, due the fact that India have one thing very important in the world and that is Democracy. Rest you can discuss for the death any speculation.

1. As I said, did they continue to support post 74?
2. Mars and mangalyan? Well I , and anyone else will not count it as a " Strategic Partnership ", reason being only US has the capability, so we ought to have had gone for US help.

And didn't you mentioned about the training, so was my reply.
3. Well to the best of my knowledge, the training of pilots for carrier operations by US was over by Some time in 2014. Beyond which we are doing it ourselves. Feel free to prove me wrong.
And the mention of Russia was the help for which the did in INS Hansa STBF , while the initial batch of mig29K pilots were trained in Russia flying with their Russian counter parts.
4. Yes, did some Google. That was real surprise for me.
5. Well the design was American ? How does that translate into strategic partnership, please elaborate. Not only vikrant, we bought several other things from Britain which had substantial US contribution .
6.Didn't find any contribution of US in HUMSA or USHUS.
7. US Approval ? So you mean US allowed Israel to sell Python 3 and EL/M2052 AESA to China?
Sadly US dosent hold much control over Israel except for Systems which has parts manufactured in US.
8 . The 414 is actually not the most probable. AMCA calls to have super cruise and TV capability for sure, I really doubt the present 414 delivers that.

And at last, I still stick to my original term, name one " offensive weapons platform "( except P8) which US has till now given to India, heck they haven't even supplied us 20% of weapons of what they donated for free to Pakistan. We will be paying billions for M777 and with that money US will supply M109s A5 free of cost to Pakistan. So much of a strategic relation ship.

Also note, by Strategic relation ship, I mean and give stress to defence field.
Not the civilian field, as yes US had given aid ( economic ) to us . But so do they else where.

We have a relationship with US, but that's not a " STRATEGIC " one.

 

[illusion8]

We are being fooled by this " India US Strategic relationship ", nothing else.

The partnership is about building weapons and transferring knowhow.

Most top US defense companies have setups in India. .Some for the last 20 years.. raytheon, pratt and Whitney, textron, Boeing, L&M, rockwell Collins, GE, honeywell, Northop grumann - all have centers or offices, r&d or JV's.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

The partnership is about building weapons and transferring knowhow.

Most top US defense companies have setups in India. .Some for the last 20 years.. raytheon, pratt and Whitney, textron, Boeing, L&M, rockwell Collins, GE, honeywell, Northop grumann - all have centers or offices, r&d or JV's.

Again I say, try to list some results.
Even 3 will be great.
Leave 3, even 1% of what they gave to Pakistan will be great to know.

 

[illusion8]

Again I say, try to list some results.
Even 3 will be great.
Leave 3, even 1% of what they gave to Pakistan will be great to know.

Wrong comparison. .pakistan is like a outlier US base camp..They fight their wars, host huge US consulates, the US miltary uses pakistani airspace and port..The Pakistani army is trained by the Americans.

With India, it's a business relationship on equal terms.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

With India, it's a business relationship on equal terms.

Exactly to some extent.
Its not an equal one, but yes its an " Business Relationship ".
A " Strategic Relationship " is something different. And it doesn't exist at present.
I rest it here.
Thanks.

 

[illusion8]

Exactly to some extent.
Its not an equal one, but yes its an " Business Relationship ".
A " Strategic Relationship " is something different. And it doesn't exist at present.
I rest it here.
Thanks.

Strategic relations will be based on what India desires and looks at what projection it deems for itself in the future.