US plays 'genocide' card to pressure Turkey on NATO missile system

[amalakas]

Thousands of Greeks living in Turkey ? really ? when did you invent a time machine and went back in time ?

please .. your argument is laughable.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

2500 greeks in Turkey according to this source Greeks in Turkey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[amalakas]

2500 greeks in Turkey according to this source Greeks in Turkey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

......................QED

 

[madooxno9]

little off topic ...but any explanations...

 

[Meengla]

Napoleon occupied Vienna but the Ottomans failed to conquer it twice, today Italians hate the Ottomans more then Napoleon.

They would hate us even if they open their archives and the world declares the Ottomans innocent since we are the Muslim the "agents of Satan" the empire of anti-Christ and the "eastern menace".

Europe and their satellite Christian populations/nations who look to Europe for guidance despise us because of our religion and apparent difference of culture never mind the fact that nations only a century ago were all looking forward and attempting to build empires. How many times have you heard the word Mongol/Tork (as the Armenian who posted in this thread intending it to be an insult) and even the word Turk was originally meant to be an insult to the Ottomans.

Re: Bolded parts. You have a good head on your shoulders. Keep it up friend.
Indeed, the world was crassly busy in the game of colonizations and usurpations. It STILL is, though much more polished (Bush's invasion of Iraq in 2003 is one of the more flagrant symbols of old-style imperialism) now.
I think one of the major reasons the Turks are feared in Europe is a realization that Turkey--unlike much of Europe--has a growing population with a different cultural and religious background AND Turkey is land-connected to Europe. In this vein, Tunisia or Morocco too would be feared had there been a land-connection, above all.
Europe is dying. There is no rejoicing in that but that is the way I see it despite an infusion of 'fresh blood' by the lifting of the Iron Curtain. The West, on the whole, including America itself, is dying. May be when human beings achieve a level of technology-sophistication they stop worrying about procreation--and then they wither.

 

[Azatavrear]

Azatavrear the onus is not on me to prove my claims as being false but if your own knowledge of the situation is lacking that I cannot help you either and statements by Armenia as "they will solve this problem"

Once we take care of Aliyev and liberate the Talish and the lezgins from Azeri rule (who send them to fight the Armenians instead of Turks) we will liberate our eastern front establishing a dirrect border with Russia (and a longer southern boarder with our brothers in Iran) and make your friend Georgia irrelevant, then we will return Persian lands (Azerbaijan) back to Iran.

No need to take Baku....she will fall by her own.
Both Russia and Iran would support redrawing the borders in East Caucasus.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

I really don't think you can persuade Iran to support you against Turkey. Sure you could do that 10 years ago, but today Iran is much closer to Turkey than Armenia, i can assure you that amigo. Iran has lots to gain by leaning to Turkey, rather than support poor Armenia at the cost of Turkey.

 

[ovarel]

Once we take care of Aliyev and liberate the Talish and the lezgins from Azeri rule (who send them to fight the Armenians instead of Turks) we will liberate our eastern front establishing a dirrect border with Russia (and a longer southern boarder with our brothers in Iran) and make your friend Georgia irrelevant, then we will return Persian lands (Azerbaijan) back to Iran.

No need to take Baku....she will fall by her own.
Both Russia and Iran would support redrawing the borders in East Caucasus.

lol...nice to see "anti-fascist" "genocide-sensitive" armenians started to tell their wet dreams..keep your feet on the ground,things you said are childish...

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

lol...nice to see "anti-fascist" "genocide-sensitive" armenians started to tell their wet dreams..keep your feet on the ground,things you said are childish...

my thought was the same.....

 

[Azatavrear]

I really don't think you can persuade Iran to support you against Turkey. Sure you could do that 10 years ago, but today Iran is much closer to Turkey than Armenia, i can assure you that amigo. Iran has lots to gain by leaning to Turkey, rather than support poor Armenia at the cost of Turkey.

How is what I said had anything to do with Turkey....I am talking about East Caucasus. Iranians, just like us, do not recognize Stalin's devide and conquer artificial borders. Just look at Nakishevan exclave. Anybody who looks at the map will see how ridiculous that is and how in the hell it could possibly belong to Azerbaijan. No such condition anywhere in the world. Azerbaijan historically is nothing but a Province of Iran and never existed in the past.

Turkey should open its borders with Armenia without pre-conditions as it is being suggested by your American masters and Iranian authorities. We know the growing Turkish relations between Iran and Russia, but that does not change historical realities in the eyes of both those countries.

 

[ovarel]

How is what I said had anything to do with Turkey....I am talking about East Caucasus. Iranians, just like us, do not recognize Stalin's devide and conquer artificial borders. Just look at Nakishevan exclave. Anybody who looks at the map will see how ridiculous that is and how in the hell it could possibly belong to Azerbaijan. No such condition anywhere in the world. Azerbaijan historically is nothing but a Province of Iran and never existed in the past.

Turkey should open its borders with Armenia without pre-conditions as it is being suggested by your American masters and Iranian authorities. We know the growing Turkish relations between Iran and Russia, but that does not change historical realities in the eyes of both those countries.

look how self-confident he is..anyway...

have you ever heard sth about geostrategy?geostrategic balance?

btw azerbaijan is an internationally recognized sovereign country.so your "province of iran" thing doesnt suit well with current reality..

your order has been taken,sir..now we are opening the borders without any condition

 

[Azatavrear]

my thought was the same.....

Abu, your brotherly support for Turks is commanding but I am not talking childish my friend. What I say is a good possibility....the only problem is that we Armenians are peacful people and most likely will not pre-empt Azerbaijan unless attacked first (which I don't agree with, we have a good chance to increase Armenia's footprint and put us in a better geopolitical position).

Wikileak: Armenia cannot be defeated by Azerbaijan

Published: Tuesday February 22, 2011

Washington - "Azerbaijan, even with its focus on improving its military capability, is unlikely anytime soon to structure a force large or well-equipped enough to overcome the terrain advantages enjoyed by the NK Self-Defense Force and the Armenian army," former U.S. Ambassador to Azerbaijan Anne Derse argued at the end of her tenure in Baku.

According to the July 2, 2009 cable that is part of Wikileaks cache and was first published by Russkiy Reporter on February 22, Azerbaijan assumes "a much rosier scenario for NK than it has any plausible reason to expect."

Derse served as U.S. Ambassador to Azerbaijan from 2006 to 2009 and is currently the U.S. Ambassador to Lithuania.

In a January 2009 cable, also published by Russkiy Reporter today, Derse also notes that Azerbaijani "President's rhetoric has vastly outpaced the results" of Azerbaijan's military build-up.

The Washington view

Derse's analysis is in line with U.S. assessment of the balance of forces in Karabakh that former U.S. officials and experts have communicated publicly, their assessment unaffected by Azerbaijan's ballooning military spending expected to top $3 billion in 2011.

Ross Wilson, another former U.S. Ambassador to Azerbaijan (2000-2003) and currently with The Atlantic Council of the United States (ACUS), and Steve Blank of the National War College offered similar analysis during a panel discussion at the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) in Washington on February 18.

Blank stressed that Ilham Aliyev is "sadly mistaken" if he believes, as he often says publicly, that Azerbaijan could successfully undertake a military operation to capture Karabakh. Blank suggested that his conclusion was based on an in-depth and recent analysis by a group of Western experts.

"Any military campaign will seriously set back Azerbaijan's interests in the region including with respect to solving this [conflict] and I say that in part because I don't think a military effort will succeed," Wilson said at an earlier event at Georgetown University.

"This is extremely difficult terrain, the Armenians hold the high ground and it is very, very difficult to try to take that kind of territory without truly overwhelming force" which Azerbaijan does not possess, Wilson noted.

Wayne Merry, a former State Department and Pentagon official, argued in May 2009 that in addition to the terrain and other physical limitations, Azerbaijan would be facing "Karabakh Armenians [who] have a clear record of superiority in operational art [that] they would exercise in the inherently advantageous role of defenders of a skillfully prepared position."

The realities on the ground "should persuade any rational Azeri not to resort to war. Even the most favorable battlefield outcome would leave Azerbaijan immeasurably worse off than before," Merry wrote.

He warned further that "it is not out of the question that the existence of an Azeri state could hang in the balance, as in a major renewed war it might be in the combined interests of Armenia, Russia and Iran to redraw the map of the eastern Caucasus. Unlikely, but history is replete with precedents."

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

my friend; as an outsider i am not a part of that conflict between those countries

my opinion (on this 'genocide') is that leave it to the historians....when West get involved in it (for political reasons) it begins to annoy me. These smear campaigns serve nobody. And who the hell cares what happened over a century ago.

i would not support any misadventure against Azerbaycan; it would lead to consequences which the region does not need at this time.

 

[Azatavrear]

I was trying to change the subject on this thread but I have to give you an answer since you brought up two very good questions.

my opinion (on this 'genocide') is that leave it to the historians....

The Turkish government and its supporters have adopted the line of "leave Armenian history to the historians" because they do not have objective scholarship supporting their allegations and have resorted to propaganda. Currently, they are losing their propaganda battle. The issue of the Armenian Genocide is not a question of historical truth; that has been settled by historians. It is rather an issue of morality, legality and the acceptance of the truth.

History is too important to leave to historians. By leaving the Armenian injustice of World War I uncorrected, the stage was set for the Holocaust of World War II. The abandonment of the Armenians was not lost on Hitler. Hitler said before sending his troops into Poland, "Go, go kill without mercy. Who today remembers the extermination of the Armenians?"

And who the hell cares what happened over a century ago.

Genocide is a crime against humanity, and there is no statue of limitations on genocide -- not even one 96 years old. At the time the Armenian Genocide was being carried out, the Allies called it "a crime against humanity and civilization." The term genocide had not yet been created by Rafael Lemkin, but "genocide" means the murder of a nation, a term which the American ambassador to the Ottoman Empire, Henry Morgenthau, used in his report to the U.S. State Department.

The fact that a major crime against humanity takes place 8,000 miles away from the United States makes it no less a crime. Was Hitler justified in killing Jews because he was 5,000 miles away? Should American troops not defend Saudi Arabia because Saddam Hussein was 9,000 miles away?
It was the old Ottoman Empire that committed the crime, but present-day Turkey becomes an accomplice after the fact by its expensive campaign of denial, denial not only for itself but for the old Ottoman Empire. This principle of becoming an accomplice by the cover-up of a crime is part of the rule of law.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

do you know how many Turks were slaughtered?


it was a bloody war!