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US & Pakistan Dispute and Tensions over Haqqani group

Honestly can't be arsed to dig up that old a story, takes a really long time. I can assure you it did happen though, believe it or not. Besides, you seem to have done it again - completely diverted the story to something more or less completely off topic.

The bigger question is, where is US evidence for these claims?

No Link.. No cigar..

But anyway, the topic is USA accusing Pakistan of supporting terrorism. You are stating that without proof its immaterial.. I am not debating that, because its right. USA needs to provide proof, otherwise these accusations are as shallow as Rehman Malik's wait for the right time to present the proof of India's involvement in Balochistan.

What I am also discussing though is that USA routinely levies these accusations and Pakistan really doesnt do much except asking for proof and being on the defensive. Specially since Pakistan is such an important cog in the whole WOT machine.. So I find this response a little weird.. I dont think this is off topic at all.. But I will yield to a Mod's decision on this..
 
Ron Paul: Is Pakistan Next? - YouTube
this is what US Republican Senetor Ron Paul says about Pakistan

May18 2011
Ron says the occupation on Pakistan will start within six months or year from now (May).

“I see the whole thing as a mess,” he said. “And I think that we are going to be in Pakistan. I think that’s the next occupation, and I fear it. I think it’s ridiculous, and I think our foreign policy is such we don’t need to be doing this. So when I talk about doing it differently, I talk about in the context of our foreign policy and not in the fact of whether or not we should have gotten him. As a matter of fact, I voted for the first authority. I think what’s the real tragedy is that we didn’t get him 10 years ago when we could have and should have. But yet we now have spent $1 trillion. We’ve lost 5,000 people, our soldiers, in fighting two wars that had nothing to do with bin Laden. And to me, we have to reassess the foreign policy just like we have to reassess our economic policies here.”

Later in the segment, “Morning Joe” co-host Willie Geist asked if Paul had any information an actual invasion was in the work. Paul said he didn’t but based it on the past four decades of American foreign policy.

“No – just because I look at what has happened in the past 30 or 40 years of all the unintended consequences and what we have done and how we are spreading and how we are spreading in the attitudes that has been pervasive in our government for the past 10 years that we have this obligation to spread our goodness and protect our financial interests,” Paul said. “And right now Pakistan is a big problem. And the people there, we have created a civil war there. And the fact that we go over there and we violate their security and the people rebel against the government because they see their government as being a puppet of the American government, so it’s total chaos, and I am afraid — I hope I’m absolutely wrong — but I’m afraid we will be in Pakistan trying to occupy that country, and it will probably be very unsuccessful.”




No, they are not going to invade Pakistan, they are not dumb. Not going to happen.
 
The Afghan resistance is made up of various people not just the former central ruling party the Taliban. If Kabul cannot be secured neither can the rest of the nation. Once again a massive blow to the occupiers and their puppets. Meanwhile invading soldiers are be killed in great numbers around the country.

Invaders have been defeated, they just have to accept the defeat.
 
The Afghan resistance is made up of various people not just the former central ruling party the Taliban. If Kabul cannot be secured neither can the rest of the nation. Once again a massive blow to the occupiers and their puppets. Meanwhile invading soldiers are be killed in great numbers around the country.

Invaders have been defeated, they just have to accept the defeat.

Any figures on number of NATO/US soldiers killed since 2001 in Afghanistan.. Compare it with the loss of life on the Taliban and Pakistani armies and you will see who is getting killed around the country :)
 
Taliban - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Afghan Taliban have always relied on support by the Pakistani army in the past and are still supported by them today in their campaign to control Afghanistan.[12][14] Regular Pakistani army troops fought alongside the Afghan Taliban in the War in Afghanistan (1996–2001).[15] Major leaders of the Afghan Taliban including Mullah Omar, Jalaluddin Haqqani and Siraj Haqqani are believed to enjoy safe haven in Pakistan.[14] In 2006 Jalaluddin Haqqani was called a 'Pakistani asset' by a senior official of Inter-Services Intelligence.[14] Pakistan regards the Haqqani's as an important force for protecting its interests in Afghanistan and therefore have been unwilling to move against them.[14]

More than wiki i'd rely on American Intelligence declassified reports , they are more credible.

captureugf.jpg


Pakistan: "The Taliban's Godfather"?
 
Strange think is, that an alleged group which is again allegedly supposed to be in hiding in Pakistan NWA tribal area is sending fighters deep inside Afghanistan, right into Kabul with weapons and explosives and the powerful ANA, ANP, CIA, RAMA & US/NATO forces which all combined together in hundreds of thousands manning all the checkpoints in Afghanistan & have local support of the Afghan people, especially in Kabul are not able to capture/kill/identify these mujaheddin.

Either the western/afghan forces are extremely incompetent and the fighters are crossing all over Afghanistan without being confronted or the Haqqani's have some machine that they are transporting men and material right from NWA to anywhere in Afghanistan.

My guess is, the Afghan/Western forces are incompetent, since someone from NWA is crossing the border, weapons and explosives being smuggled out from NWA, then everything travels hundreds of miles inside Afghanistan with no one checking them, fighters reaching their targets and then staying there for days before carrying out their attacks, is an example of sheet incompetency.

And incompetent people blame others to hide their incompetence. That is what the US/NATO/Afghan do.
 
Strange think is, that an alleged group which is again allegedly supposed to be in hiding in Pakistan NWA tribal area is sending fighters deep inside Afghanistan, right into Kabul with weapons and explosives and the powerful ANA, ANP, CIA, RAMA & US/NATO forces which all combined together in hundreds of thousands manning all the checkpoints in Afghanistan & have local support of the Afghan people, especially in Kabul are not able to capture/kill/identify these mujaheddin.

Either the western/afghan forces are extremely incompetent and the fighters are crossing all over Afghanistan without being confronted or the Haqqani's have some machine that they are transporting men and material right from NWA to anywhere in Afghanistan.

My guess is, the Afghan/Western forces are incompetent, since someone from NWA is crossing the border, weapons and explosives being smuggled out from NWA, then everything travels hundreds of miles inside Afghanistan with no one checking them, fighters reaching their targets and then staying there for days before carrying out their attacks, is an example of sheet incompetency.

And incompetent people blame others to hide their incompetence. That is what the US/NATO/Afghan do.

With all due respect, isn't it naive to think haqqani group doesn't posses assets inside afghanistan especially with ISI's clout behind it???
 
With all due respect, isn't it naive to think haqqani group doesn't posses assets inside afghanistan especially with ISI's clout behind it???

If it is in Pakistan it is ISI support and conspiracy.

It is in Afghanistan it is ISI support and conspiracy.

Oh bhai kuch to sharam karo.

---------- Post added at 12:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:09 PM ----------

Denial , not Islam, is the state religion of pakistan.....anon tweet.

Ignorance is bliss. Both for Indian members on PDF and Indian mujahideen. :)
 
With all due respect, isn't it naive to think haqqani group doesn't posses assets inside afghanistan especially with ISI's clout behind it???

Well that is the main question, why isn't NATO/CIA/US/ANA/ANP not able to target these ?? These men travel hundreds of miles on the Afghan roads to reach their destinations, they are provided weapons and explosives right in their destinations, same explosives and material which get smuggled and traveled in Afghanistan from countries around it, why aren't they being stopped ??

US/NATO/CIA/ANA/ANP are as per their claims having local support, they have the best equipment, intel gadgets, then with all these things, why can't they target the Taliban or Haqqani network guys in Afghanistan ??

Al Jazera news, a couple of days back aired the interview of Siraj Ud Din Haqqani, which is said to have been conducted right in Afghanistan, since the head of Haqqani network is in Afghanistan, then why blaming Pakistan. Why not find him and his guys right inside Afghanistan.

I wonder how and why are Taliban controlling 70%+ of Afghanistan. If they have so much control, why need Pakistan tribal area for having assets here ??

ISI is not protecting the Haqqani or Afghan taliban in Afghanistan, its the Afghans themselves who are doing them and NATO/US/ANA/ANP/CIA/RAMA is incompetent enough not stopping them right in Afghanistan.

Had Afghanistan been in control of NATO/US/ANA, they might have been right in accusing Pakistan, but since they can't clean up the shiet right under their noses, they are blaming it on us, so that the reason of their failure is not seen, that is their own incompetence to confront the militants with bases and assets right inside Afghanistan.
 
Strange think is, that an alleged group which is again allegedly supposed to be in hiding in Pakistan NWA tribal area is sending fighters deep inside Afghanistan, right into Kabul with weapons and explosives and the powerful ANA, ANP, CIA, RAMA & US/NATO forces which all combined together in hundreds of thousands manning all the checkpoints in Afghanistan & have local support of the Afghan people, especially in Kabul are not able to capture/kill/identify these mujaheddin.

Either the western/afghan forces are extremely incompetent and the fighters are crossing all over Afghanistan without being confronted or the Haqqani's have some machine that they are transporting men and material right from NWA to anywhere in Afghanistan.

My guess is, the Afghan/Western forces are incompetent, since someone from NWA is crossing the border, weapons and explosives being smuggled out from NWA, then everything travels hundreds of miles inside Afghanistan with no one checking them, fighters reaching their targets and then staying there for days before carrying out their attacks, is an example of sheet incompetency.

And incompetent people blame others to hide their incompetence. That is what the US/NATO/Afghan do.

Does the same lens of incompetence apply to Pakistani forces when there are blasts in areas far flung from the troubled border with Afgh?? or when terrorists are found hiding a hour's drive from the capital (or 2 hours).

What I am trying to say is that terrorists need to be successful once and security forces, every time to succeed. Its a little too flippant coming from you specially with your military knowledge..
 
Does the same lens of incompetence apply to Pakistani forces when there are blasts in areas far flung from the troubled border with Afgh?? or when terrorists are found hiding a hour's drive from the capital (or 2 hours).

What I am trying to say is that terrorists need to be successful once and security forces, every time to succeed. Its a little too flippant coming from you specially with your military knowledge..

Definitely it does.

But the magnitude of security forces deployed in Afghanistan and their level of sophistication also has to be seen. You have NATO/US/CIA/ANA/ANP in much larger numbers deployed in Afghanistan, even then these militants travel from supposedly across the border into Afghanistan and attack its heart.

As for Pakistan, the majority of the attacks by militants is within land, they are locals and coming from within the country. There is a difference. They have local support, thus local support with local militants. And our security forces and intel agencies are not as sophisticated as across the border has. And then you have Afghanistan which as per western forces don't like Taliban and are against them, then who is giving them local support on such a massive scale. On our side the attacks have gone down with militants cells being targeted before they carry out the attacks or after the attack. Their home bases are being attacked and if you see the level of attacks and the amount of devastation they cause, it has gone down. Most of the recent high casualty attacks have been in the tribal areas themselves, where they have local support.

So, since i have little bit knowledge of military related stuff, looking at the level of sophistication & numbers which the US/NATO/ANA/ANP/RAMA/CIA enjoy in Afghanistan, i fail to see why such attacks happen and why 70% of Afghanistan being under Taliban rule still gives us the blame. Recent attacks on Pak security forces on the Afghan-Pak border were launched from the 2 provinces which are in complete Taliban control. Where are the NATO/US/ANA forces and why don't they capture those two very important provinces. Compared to NWA, they are controlling 2 big provinces. Why don't they try to have more troops and border posts with more surveillance of the border area on the NWA-Afghan border, so that whoever is infiltrating, should be taken down. After 10 years of war, they must know which routes are being used and where to ambush them and attack with drones. They are good at attacking with drones in NWA, but they can't take them down when they are crossing the border. We have 800+ posts on the border, while ANA/NATO/US total number is around 200, doesn't that speaks something.

ANA/ANP/US/NATO should first take down the militants on its sides, local support and infrastructure should be dismantled, after that something can be done, otherwise, if we attack them here, they will cross the border and stay there, which is exactly what is happening.
 
There is no need to occupy, but many other ways of achieving the same goals, if needed.

What 'goals'?

Economic sanctions? How does destabilizing Pakistan even more, and potentially making it easier for religious extremists to take over, assist any 'long term US goals'?

True, since there is no country as advanced as USA in stand-off weapons..
If 'Stand-off weapons' was the solution, it would have been employed already.

Haqqani and his network are allegedly in North Waziristan, and the US has essentially had free reign to conduct 'drone strikes' there, and yet the impact on the Haqqani network would appear to be rather limited, given US statements themselves. So how exactly is this 'stand-off weapons capability' going to help, when they can't even use it to much effect in NW?
 

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