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US Navy can’t keep up with China’s PLA in shipbuilding, service chief says

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US Navy can’t keep up with China’s PLA in shipbuilding, service chief says​

By Brad Lendon and Haley Britzky, CNN
Updated 3:45 AM EST, Wed February 22, 2023

China’s navy has significant advantages over its US rival, including a bigger fleet and greater shipbuilding capacity, as Beijing seeks to project its power across the oceans, the head of the United States Navy said Tuesday.

Speaking at the National Press Club in Washington, DC, US Navy Secretary Carlos Del Toro said China “consistently attempts to violate the maritime sovereignty and economic well-being of other nations including our allies in the South China Sea and elsewhere.”

“They got a larger fleet now so they’re deploying that fleet globally,” he said, adding that Washington must upgrade the US fleet in response.

“We do need a larger Navy, we do need more ships in the future, more modern ships in the future, in particular that can meet that threat,” he said.

China’s People’s Liberation Army Navy could be fielding up to 400 ships in the coming years, the Navy secretary said – up from about 340 now.

Meanwhile, the US fleet sits at under 300 ships.

According to the US Navy’s Navigation Plan 2022 released last summer, the Pentagon’s goal is to have 350 manned ships by 2045 – still well short of the projection for China’s fleet.

Before that target is met, however, the US fleet is expected to shrink as older vessels are retired, according to a November report from the US Congressional Budget Office.

Del Toro’s claims

Del Toro said Tuesday that US naval shipyards can’t match the output of Chinese ones. As with fleet size, it’s about numbers.

“They have 13 shipyards, in some cases their shipyard has more capacity – one shipyard has more capacity than all of our shipyards combined. That presents a real threat,” he claimed.

Del Toro did not give a breakdown of those shipyards, but Chinese and Western reports say China has six major and two smaller shipyards building naval vessels.

In the US, seven shipyards produce large and deep draft ships for the US Navy and Coast Guard, according to an October report from Brent Sadler at the Center for National Defense.

But no matter the number of shipyards, they need workers, and Del Toro says China has a numerical advantage there, largely because it is free of the restrictions, regulations and economic pressures that affect labor in the US.

One big US problem is finding skilled labor, he said.

“[W]hen you have unemployment at less than 4%, it makes it a real challenge whether you’re trying to find workers for a restaurant or you’re trying to find workers for a shipyard,” the Navy leader said.

He also said China can do things the US can’t.

“They’re a communist country, they don’t have rules by which they abide by,” he said.

“They use slave labor in building their ships, right – that’s not the way we should do business ever, but that’s what we’re up against so it does present a significant advantage,” he claimed.

CNN has reached out to China’s Foreign Ministry for reaction to Del Toro’s allegations.

US advantages

Del Toro did not supply specifics to support the slave labor allegation, and analysts expressed doubt that Beijing would resort to such a tactic.

“China has a very large pool of available manpower and it wouldn’t really make sense to use slave labor in a high-tech sector vital to their national security,” said Blake Herzinger, a nonresident fellow and Indo-Pacific defense policy expert at the American Enterprise Institute.

Herzinger said comments like that from the Navy chief are indicative of a pattern where US attention is put in the wrong place – to the detriment of US abilities.

“This seems unfortunately common, that Navy leadership throws stones at real or imagined faults in Chinese shipbuilding rather than reckoning with US failures over two decades to conceptualize, design and build ships for its own navy,” Herzinger said.

According to a US Congressional Research Service report from November, the US Navy has taken steps to address the gap with China, including assigning more of its fleet to the Pacific and using newer and more capable ships in Pacific roles.

And Del Toro said Tuesday that the US retains one big advantage over China – “our people.”

“In many ways our shipbuilders are better shipbuilders, that’s why we have a more modern, more capable, more lethal Navy than they do,” he said.

US military personnel are better on their feet, too, Del Toro contended.

“They script their people to fight, we actually train our people to think,” he said.

“There’s a fundamental difference in how we train our Marines and our sailors and our soldiers and our airmen and our Space Force in this country that gives us an inherent advantage over anything the Chinese can put up.”

 
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US Navy can’t keep up with China’s PLA in shipbuilding, service chief says​

By Brad Lendon and Haley Britzky, CNN
Updated 3:45 AM EST, Wed February 22, 2023

China’s navy has significant advantages over its US rival, including a bigger fleet and greater shipbuilding capacity, as Beijing seeks to project its power across the oceans, the head of the United States Navy said Tuesday.

Speaking at the National Press Club in Washington, DC, US Navy Secretary Carlos Del Toro said China “consistently attempts to violate the maritime sovereignty and economic well-being of other nations including our allies in the South China Sea and elsewhere.”

“They got a larger fleet now so they’re deploying that fleet globally,” he said, adding that Washington must upgrade the US fleet in response.

“We do need a larger Navy, we do need more ships in the future, more modern ships in the future, in particular that can meet that threat,” he said.

China’s People’s Liberation Army Navy could be fielding up to 400 ships in the coming years, the Navy secretary said – up from about 340 now.

Meanwhile, the US fleet sits at under 300 ships.

According to the US Navy’s Navigation Plan 2022 released last summer, the Pentagon’s goal is to have 350 manned ships by 2045 – still well short of the projection for China’s fleet.

Before that target is met, however, the US fleet is expected to shrink as older vessels are retired, according to a November report from the US Congressional Budget Office.

Del Toro’s claims

Del Toro said Tuesday that US naval shipyards can’t match the output of Chinese ones. As with fleet size, it’s about numbers.

“They have 13 shipyards, in some cases their shipyard has more capacity – one shipyard has more capacity than all of our shipyards combined. That presents a real threat,” he claimed.

Del Toro did not give a breakdown of those shipyards, but Chinese and Western reports say China has six major and two smaller shipyards building naval vessels.

In the US, seven shipyards produce large and deep draft ships for the US Navy and Coast Guard, according to an October report from Brent Sadler at the Center for National Defense.

But no matter the number of shipyards, they need workers, and Del Toro says China has a numerical advantage there, largely because it is free of the restrictions, regulations and economic pressures that affect labor in the US.

One big US problem is finding skilled labor, he said.

“[W]hen you have unemployment at less than 4%, it makes it a real challenge whether you’re trying to find workers for a restaurant or you’re trying to find workers for a shipyard,” the Navy leader said.

He also said China can do things the US can’t.

“They’re a communist country, they don’t have rules by which they abide by,” he said.

“They use slave labor in building their ships, right – that’s not the way we should do business ever, but that’s what we’re up against so it does present a significant advantage,” he claimed.

CNN has reached out to China’s Foreign Ministry for reaction to Del Toro’s allegations.

US advantages

Del Toro did not supply specifics to support the slave labor allegation, and analysts expressed doubt that Beijing would resort to such a tactic.

“China has a very large pool of available manpower and it wouldn’t really make sense to use slave labor in a high-tech sector vital to their national security,” said Blake Herzinger, a nonresident fellow and Indo-Pacific defense policy expert at the American Enterprise Institute.

Herzinger said comments like that from the Navy chief are indicative of a pattern where US attention is put in the wrong place – to the detriment of US abilities.

“This seems unfortunately common, that Navy leadership throws stones at real or imagined faults in Chinese shipbuilding rather than reckoning with US failures over two decades to conceptualize, design and build ships for its own navy,” Herzinger said.

According to a US Congressional Research Service report from November, the US Navy has taken steps to address the gap with China, including assigning more of its fleet to the Pacific and using newer and more capable ships in Pacific roles.

And Del Toro said Tuesday that the US retains one big advantage over China – “our people.”

“In many ways our shipbuilders are better shipbuilders, that’s why we have a more modern, more capable, more lethal Navy than they do,” he said.

US military personnel are better on their feet, too, Del Toro contended.

“They script their people to fight, we actually train our people to think,” he said.

“There’s a fundamental difference in how we train our Marines and our sailors and our soldiers and our airmen and our Space Force in this country that gives us an inherent advantage over anything the Chinese can put up.”


The Soviets also had a larger Navy than the US during the Cold War.

The US will always win on quality and tech.
 
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It all boils down to the economy - rising vs declining....
 
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It all boils down to the economy - rising vs declining....

The Navy just received its largest shipbuilding budget in history.

The US economy will exceed $26T this year, possibly $27T. You don’t know what your talking about.
 
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The Soviets also had a larger Navy than the US during the Cold War.

The US will always win on quality and tech.
Don't know about that, but did Soviet every get to this level?

 
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Don't know about that, but did Soviet every get to this level?


By the end of the Cold War the Soviets had over 650 ships and submarines.
 
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By the end of the Cold War the Soviets had over 650 ships and submarines.
but did they have China's today's overall shipbuilding world dominance?

check out this trend, do you really think you can keep up?

5lpV-lrIf2DQw2kJURjnYqNgyOBwK2HMimEcsn9Knes.png
 
Last edited:
. . .

China’s navy has a significant advantage over us, US Secretary of the Navy​

23/02/2023

1196872_1431832_chinese-navy_updates.jpg

An aircraft carrier of the Chinese Navy

The head of the United States Navy has said that China has a significant advantage over the United States, it has more fleets and its ability to produce ships than us.

Speaking at the National Press Club in Washington, US Navy Secretary Carlos Del Toro said that China is constantly violating the maritime sovereignty and economic security of other nations, including our allies.

He said that China has a large fleet and therefore now uses them all over the world.

Washington should also upgrade its fleet in response, he said.

The Secretary of the Navy said we need a bigger navy, we need more ships in the future that can withstand this threat.

He said China’s navy will have 400 ships in the coming years, which is 340 at present, while the United States has 300 ships.

According to the US Naval Navigation Plan 2022, the Pentagon has set a goal of producing 350 ships by 2045.

The Secretary of the Navy said that China has 13 shipyards, some of which are larger in area than all our shipyards and that is the danger.

 
. .

China Can Produce Warships Faster Than Any Country; US Navy Struggling To Keep Pace With PLA Navy- USN Boss

February 22, 2023

US Navy Secretary said on February 21 that China’s Navy has considerable advantages over the US Navy, including a larger fleet and greater shipbuilding capacity, underscoring the urgent need to modernize the US fleet.

Speaking at the National Press Club in Washington, DC, Carlos Del Toro emphasized that Beijing continuously tries to breach the maritime sovereignty and economic security of other countries in the South China Sea and elsewhere.

He continued to say that China has a larger fleet now and is deploying it worldwide. Thus, Washington must upgrade the US fleet in response, Toro noted.

“We do need a larger Navy; we do need more ships in the future, more modern ships in the future, in particular, that can meet that threat,” he added.

The Navy Secretary stated that China’s People’s Liberation Army Navy, which currently has roughly 340 ships, might field up to 400 ships in the upcoming years. On the other hand, the US Navy currently operates less than 300 ships.


China Has Greater Shipbuilding Capabilities

Del Toro asserted that US Navy shipyards fall short of Chinese ones in terms of production. He also mentioned that China has 13 shipyards, some of which have greater capacity than all the shipyards in the United States.

“That presents a real threat,” he claimed. Del Toro did not provide a breakdown of these shipyards, but according to Chinese and Western accounts, China has six major and two minor shipyards that produce naval warships.

On the other hand, the US is believed to have seven shipyards to build large, deep-draft ships for the US Navy and coast guard.

But no matter how many shipyards there are, they all require manpower. According to Del Toro, China has an edge in this area mainly due to the absence of labor-related limitations, laws, and economic pressures on the US.

According to a November report from the US Congressional Research Service, the US Navy has taken many measures to close the gap with China, including relocating more of its fleet to the Pacific and deploying newer, more advanced ships in Pacific activities.


Del Toro added that the US Navy has a more advanced, capable, and lethal navy than China because the US has better shipbuilders. Del Toro believed that US military personnel are also better on their feet.

The Chinese People’s Liberation Army Navy has not yet reached parity despite having more ships than the US Navy. However, in a protracted fight, it is relatively less technologically advanced than the US.

That being said, Beijing can produce ships faster than any other nation, allowing it to quickly build up its force or replace any lost naval units, just like the US did during World War II.

 
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but did they have China's today's overall shipbuilding world dominance?

check out this trend, do you really think you can keep up?

5lpV-lrIf2DQw2kJURjnYqNgyOBwK2HMimEcsn9Knes.png
This is the head of the United States Navy...... :cheesy:
They have to justify their failure.

China may have more ships, but the US has over 10,500 VLS cells to Chinas 4,500. More than double Chinas, not to mention US naval aviation capability is decades ahead of Chinas.

The US also has over 10+ Burke destroyers, 8 Virginias, 2 America amphibs, 3 Ford carriers, 1st Columbia, and 1st Constellation under various stages of construction.
 
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China may have more ships, but the US has over 10,500 VLS cells to Chinas 4,500. More than double Chinas, not to mention US naval aviation capability is decades ahead of Chinas.

The US also has over 10+ Burke destroyers, 8 Virginias, 2 America amphibs, 3 Ford carriers, 1st Columbia, and 1st Constellation under various stages of construction.
US naval power has to be deployed all over the world, China's naval assets are all near to China, besides, think about 10-20 years from now, 10 years ago China didn't even have a modern navy and see how China has achieved in just a decade, if US doesn't take out Chinese navy now, it'll forever lose its opportunity to do so in the future.
 
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US naval power has to be deployed all over the world, China's naval assets are all near to China, besides, think about 10-20 years from now, 10 years ago China didn't even have a modern navy and see how China has achieved in just a decade, if US doesn't take out Chinese navy now, it'll forever lose its opportunity to do so in the future.

Don't worry NATO got this:

Fpk2CjnXwAERbSe



The Italian Navy is just part of the force. Add Japan, South Korea, UK, Australia, Germany, Canada, France, and India and you've got a great force. China has a lot of work to do and will never catch up with NATO!

NATO has over 1000 warships as we speak!
 
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