US must convince India to move troops from LoC

[Hellfire]

MastanKhan

Pakistan had no way of benefitting from the attack on the indian parliament.

Wrong here. The attack on Indian Parliament was the first strong step taken to highlight the Kashmir issue after PA under Musharraf failed to do the same with Kargil. By purely making the attack look like a Kashmiri origin attack, the focus was again shifted to Kashmir instead of the complicity of Pakistan in various provocative acts in India post-Kargil. It was also an indirect attempt by controllers of Kashmiri groups (read ISI elements) to delink Pakistan from an increasingly accepted perception of supporting terror across LoC post-Kargil.



It was only and only india---that would benfit from that attack----india has played this treacherous game of killing its own and attacking their own sites to take advantage away from india.

this statement is antithetical to its ownself. you are suggesting advantage india and yet you close with take advantage away from India? You are really just blustering and have nothing concrete to state anyways.


If some of you indian members and readers didn't think that their govt was capable of doing that---now is the time to learn something different. Your govt is capable of committing these atrocities and more so---now is the time to accpet what you had feared in your hearts for so long.

Really I had no such fears. I know what we are capable of.


First major case was in kashmir----when about 38 sikhs were killed at the time of Bill Clinton's visit to india and pakistan. Traditionally the islamic millitants had never targetted sikhs in such a mass scale before this attack. The sikhs were never a target of the muslim millitant seperatists. India cried the crocodile tears and Bill Clinton plyed like a fool into india's hand. When he went on to visit pakistan---he never shook hands with Musharraf.

Infact Sikhs have been the pioneers in socio-economic aspect of India's fight against insurgency. They have always moved to regions where other feared to tread and have established trade and as such provided local employment which has been welcomed by local populance. This is definitely something of a threat for groups in J&K which started with targetting Kashmiri Pandits, Sikhs and others in the earlier stages of militancy there. You have actually distorted facts in the true tradition of GoP to convince only yourself.

In the indian parliament scenario----india had been left out of the war on terror by the americans----there was nothing that india had to offer or to participate in.

Really? MOD EDIT: Watch the language and flames please, especially with senior members US can easily close them at your behest afterall Afghans are more dependent on US for aid. Yet we see nothing of the sort happening.

FYI India was providing intelligence support to Northern Alliance long before US came in, in addition there was a dedictaed ELINT/SIGINT operation being maintained and run by India. Data obtained from TES was extensively studied and at times provided to US when needed. And US used these Northern Alliance troops for the ground offensive. So any brain can work out what was Indo-US cooperation then.

In addition US invited India to send troops to Iraq and while initially they wanted Indian troops to control Tikrit, they were willing to put them in Basra as desired by Indians. troops for same were despatched only to be returned half way as Vajpayee found the move highly unpopular. So India is assisting in other ways.



When india saw pakistani influence growing hard upon the americans and the americans started towing pakistani line---india decided to do something serious to take the attention away from pakistan---divert pakistan's attention away from what it was doing---so they faked this attack on their own parliament. Only a fool could believe that it was not a fake.

You mean to imply the whole world is a fool : dreams of a deluded nation

Right after the attack---india did what it wanted to---divert the attention of pak army from al qaeda---take them away from their primary task and get bogged down on the other border---now india had the oppurtunity of gettiong world's attention away from pakistan and getting it focussed upon india---a massive troop movement towards pakistani border that just stopped short of a few yeard to 10 miles away from the international border.

Nope on two occassions they went visiting Sukkur Barrage, without detection for recce, which will be the axis of advance for the Indian strike corps out of Rajasthan and as such needs to be secured.

 

[MastanKhan]

deleted post served the purpose

 

[afriend]

Hi,

Pakistan had no way of benefitting from the attack on the indian parliament. It was only and only india---that would benfit from that attack----india has played this treacherous game of killing its own and attacking their own sites to take advantage away from india.

If some of you indian members and readers didn't think that their govt was capable of doing that---now is the time to learn something different. Your govt is capable of committing these atrocities and more so---now is the time to accpet what you had feared in your hearts for so long.

First major case was in kashmir----when about 38 sikhs were killed at the time of Bill Clinton's visit to india and pakistan. Traditionally the islamic millitants had never targetted sikhs in such a mass scale before this attack. The sikhs were never a target of the muslim millitant seperatists. India cried the crocodile tears and Bill Clinton plyed like a fool into india's hand. When he went on to visit pakistan---he never shook hands with Musharraf.

In the indian parliament scenario----india had been left out of the war on terror by the americans----there was nothing that india had to offer or to participate in. When india saw pakistani influence growing hard upon the americans and the americans started towing pakistani line---india decided to do something serious to take the attention away from pakistan---divert pakistan's attention away from what it was doing---so they faked this attack on their own parliament. Only a fool could believe that it was not a fake.

Right after the attack---india did what it wanted to---divert the attention of pak army from al qaeda---take them away from their primary task and get bogged down on the other border---now india had the oppurtunity of gettiong world's attention away from pakistan and getting it focussed upon india---a massive troop movement towards pakistani border that just stopped short of a few yeard to 10 miles away from the international border.

Why would india want to move its troops at such a critical moment for america and pak army on the afghanistan front.

Truly---whomsoever in the indian intelligence agencies planned this attack on the indian parliament, did come out with a master stroke of genius---kudos to him / her---you did a great job for your country---hats off to you. I wish that there were someone like you on the pakistani side as well.

A wonderful story..!! But i dont think you have any credible or concrete information to back your claims.. and the same defies logic.. because you are not talking about amature gangs or mobs or individuals.... its a country brother.. with a strong democractic system. Becuase if you say india aid balochistan rebels or so it is something believable because inteligence agencies can try and inflict damages on each other(not that i believe it).. hence kindly atleast keep the countries profile in mind while cooking up stories..!!!!Because our system is not yet overtaken by radicals..fundementalists or dictators okk!!!! And parliment is the utmost symbol of our democracy and no county would put a gun to its own head and negotiate expect pakistan...!!!

And you also may note that traditionaly islamic militants dont target muslims.. but you may rememeber the sucicde bombings happening in your islamic country..!!!!

 

[Zob]

Wrong here. The attack on Indian Parliament was the first strong step taken to highlight the Kashmir issue after PA under Musharraf failed to do the same with Kargil. By purely making the attack look like a Kashmiri origin attack, the focus was again shifted to Kashmir instead of the complicity of Pakistan in various provocative acts in India post-Kargil. It was also an indirect attempt by controllers of Kashmiri groups (read ISI elements) to delink Pakistan from an increasingly accepted perception of supporting terror across LoC post-Kargil.


HELLFIRE....by attacking your own parliment india won pity and this was followed by what india is best at and i admit pakistan is completely and utterly defeated at is PROPAGANDA....india lobbied its case infront of the world that Pakistan based groups ofcourse sponsored by ISI....are carrying out atrocities against INDIA and its symbol of democracy...what could pakistan possibly gain except a tag of being a breeding ground of terrorists!!

Really? So why are you shitting your pants when Indians have consulates mushrooming in Afghanistan? US can easily close them at your behest afterall Afghans are more dependent on US for aid. Yet we see nothing of the sort happening.

FYI India was providing intelligence support to Northern Alliance long before US came in, in addition there was a dedictaed ELINT/SIGINT operation being maintained and run by India. Data obtained from TES was extensively studied and at times provided to US when needed. And US used these Northern Alliance troops for the ground offensive. So any brain can work out what was Indo-US cooperation then.

In addition US invited India to send troops to Iraq and while initially they wanted Indian troops to control Tikrit, they were willing to put them in Basra as desired by Indians. troops for same were despatched only to be returned half way as Vajpayee found the move highly unpopular. So India is assisting in other ways.

This i completely agree with INDIA is helping in the war on terror....in its own way and that is intelligence gathering espionage disrupting pakistan's plans....as well as INDIA is funding these so called "TALIBANS of PAKISTAN" and hence that explains the problems in Balochistan and NWFP...and this also answers the fact where these terrorists get there weapons from....and this completely fits in with the number of indian embassies at the border!!!!

as for india troops build up well....what india can do is build up troops on our eastern border and increase infiltraton on our WESTERN border of these so called TALIBANS as well as highlight to the world that look we are serious pakistan needs to be checked....as for crossing the sukkar barage hahahahaha good one....i just wish you cross once...all PAKISTAN NEEDS NOW IS A UNITING FACTOR....and i request you to help us unite by ATTACKING US....!!!! in december i was left wanting

 

[Halaku Khan]

Jaish behind Parliament attack: ex-ISI chief

By B. Muralidhar Reddy

ISLAMABAD, MARCH 6. The former chief of the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) has surprised observers by his statement on the floor of the Pakistan Parliament that the proscribed Jaish-e-Mohammad was behind the December 13, 2001 Parliament attack as well on attempts on the life of Pakistan President, Pervez Musharraf.

Participating in the debate in the Senate on the motion of thanks to the address of Gen. Musharraf to Parliament, Lt. Gen. (retd) Qazi said the ISI had nothing to do with the extremist and sectarian outfits in Pakistan and there was no truth in the allegations that they were patronised by the establishment.

``We must not be afraid of admitting that the Jaish was involved in the deaths of thousands of innocent Kashmiris, bombing the Indian Parliament, Daniel Pearl's murder and attempts on President Musharraf's life,'' said Senator Lt. Gen. (retd.) Qazi. His speech triggered ripples in the Treasury as well as the Opposition benches.

There is little doubt that this is the first admission by any senior functionary in the circles close to Gen. Musharraf about the activities of the banned Jaish though Lt. Gen. Qazi is clearly trying to make a case that Pakistan is as much a victim as India.

But there would be few takers for the line advanced by Lt. Gen. Qazi who was a Cabinet Minister in the Government of Gen. Musharraf. Maulana Masood Azar, one of the three militants released by India in exchange for passengers aboard the hijacked Indian Airlines aircraft in December 1999, founded the Jaish in 2000.

Reports in the Pakistani media freely talked about the help Mr. Azar got from the establishment of the Jaish. Thanks to the generous state help and oratory skills of Mr. Azad, the Jaish emerged as one of the top jehadi outfits in Pakistan. Prior to 9/11 it was reckoned as one of the two main jehadi organisations.

In the wake of pressure from the international community and India, Gen. Musharraf banned the Jaish in the wake of the Parliament attack. But Pakistan insisted that the ban had nothing to do with the Indian demand and was purely related to the sectarian activities of the Jaish.

That the ban did not work on the ground was evident when the Government deemed it necessary in November 2003 to re-ban it after it had taken a new name. For Lt. Gen. Qazi to claim now that it was behind the Parliament attack would only raise the obvious question. Why did not the Pakistan Government concede the Indian demand for action against the Jaish?

The former ISI chief told the Senate that the banned sectarian outfit Lashkar-e-Jhangvi too was a product of hatred. ``They are producing zombies to kill their Muslim brothers,' he said. About the Quetta attack, he said that Muslims were used to kill Muslims. ``We arrested people who were ready to kill anyone for just Rs. 200'', he added.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

It is good that Pakistanis have admitted the role of the Jaish in the parliament attack. As per statement of Rehman Mallik, Masood Azhar was in custody in the aftermath of 26/11, but later on the story changed - Masood Azhar had "disappeared". The fact that the Jaish is being treated with kid-gloves shows that the GoP itself is complicit in what Jaish does.

 

[Contrarian]

I hope that settles the debate whether India arranged the attack on the Parliament Mastan.

Your notion that India arranged the attack is the very very same attitude of most Pakistani's thinking that Pakistan would/could never do such a thing and it was India out to malign them. The same people that said after the Mumbai Massacre that it was India who had done the attacks herself in Mumbai. But as fate had it, all of those who espoused such theories were proved wrong.

BTW, do you have some credible evidence as to whether India arranged the attacks on her own? NO. You just feel it. You came to this conclusion by thinking who gained how much and lost how much-again according to you, disregarding empirical evidence of Pakistan being complicit for decades in such terrorist activities.

And i hope the article shown above clarifies that it was Jaish, a Pakistani sponsored organization which conducted this attack.

By any means Mastan, dont think of Pakistan as an angel, Pakistan has for decades used terrorism as an extension of state policy. Pakistan decided to start pursuing this policy when their leaders realized they would never be able to defeat India in a conventional war. Pakistan has constantly sponsored terrorism in Kashmir and elsewhere in India.

These are facts acknowledged by most of the world. There is a reason why the British PM says that 3/4ths of all terrorist activities have links to Pakistan. There is a reason why US and other countries ask Pakistan to do more. There is a reason why even China points fingers at Pakistan when it comes to their Uighur insurgency.

Why are Pakistani's blind to it, why do you think its a global conspiracy against you.

 

[Zob]

I hope that settles the debate whether India arranged the attack on the Parliament Mastan.

Your notion that India arranged the attack is the very very same attitude of most Pakistani's thinking that Pakistan would/could never do such a thing and it was India out to malign them. The same people that said after the Mumbai Massacre that it was India who had done the attacks herself in Mumbai. But as fate had it, all of those who espoused such theories were proved wrong.

BTW, do you have some credible evidence as to whether India arranged the attacks on her own? NO. You just feel it. You came to this conclusion by thinking who gained how much and lost how much-again according to you, disregarding empirical evidence of Pakistan being complicit for decades in such terrorist activities.

And i hope the article shown above clarifies that it was Jaish, a Pakistani sponsored organization which conducted this attack.

SORRY MALAY BUT WHATEVER STUFF U SAID...and i know for a fact indians are good with words and indians make good lawyers in my view....but INDIA has no proof that PAKISTAN SPONSORED JAISH then or is sponsoring JAISH NOW in the mumbai attacks case......and who sponsored jaish to do it...well like BOUNTY HUNTERS....they can be sponsored by anyone....all the marrier get a pakistani group to do it for you....makes it look more "authentic"....besides i don't think any pakistani supports jaish and i am sorry but india failed to give any proof to INTERPOL...US or anyone that PAKISTAN GOVERNMENT was and is involved......

By any means Mastan, dont think of Pakistan as an angel, Pakistan has for decades used terrorism as an extension of state policy. Pakistan decided to start pursuing this policy when their leaders realized they would never be able to defeat India in a conventional war. Pakistan has constantly sponsored terrorism in Kashmir and elsewhere in India.

These are facts acknowledged by most of the world. There is a reason why the British PM says that 3/4ths of all terrorist activities have links to Pakistan. There is a reason why US and other countries ask Pakistan to do more. There is a reason why even China points fingers at Pakistan when it comes to their Uighur insurgency.

Why are Pakistani's blind to it, why do you think its a global conspiracy against you.



WELL like i said before in the 80s the world trained armed these people and depicted them in movies as heros movies such as RAMBO and so on.....and now when this creation goes haywire and turns into "FRANKEINSTEIN" people point fingers at pakistan i say the world should THANK US for fighting it out for them do you know PAKISTAN SPENT $34BILLION on war on terror while we recieved $11 BILLION.....so instead of indians calling us beggars or whatever they do they have to realise we are the last line of defence left for the world.....

one question i leave you with....who is funding people in ASSAM....you might say pakistan....well then i ask you who is funding jaish....yes u GOT IT...INDIA....!!!

you said PAISTAN is not an ANGEL....are you by mistake trying to IMPLY india is a PEACE LOVING NATION......please give me a break.....

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi Malay,

Pakistan never used trerrorism against india. It was the war of independence by the kashmiri muslims---war for freedom---just because George Bush forced the twist of the terminology on gun point pointed to the temple of any nation's head---the word has become twisted.


If it was before 9/11---then it was a different world---what pakistan did before 9/11 against india was fair game---the rules of engagement were different---the fight for independence had a meaning to it----as the rules of engagement and entitlements changed after 9/11 and every nation of the world was forced to kow tow to George Bush---the activities by the pakistanis also stopped.

Our sanctions came off---we were free to purchase our weapons systems to make our forces at par with india---we had money coming into the country and exports goping out----why would pakistan at this juncture get invovled in doing something as strange as attacking the parliament of india---there was only and only one looser in the game at that stage----and that was india and india alone---.

Parliaments of every nation are a sacred cow---no government touches them, nobody assaults their buildings, no govt takes millitary actions against the parliament of another country---but then the indians came up with their cockamany version of the parliament attack by themseleves----and on top of that brought on the forces to the border----if there was any truth to the attack---why didnot your forces follow through the attack and take over pakistan----you didn't----because it was all a staged show for the world to consume.

India is no saint---killings in pakistan, bomb blasts and all kinds of insurgency in pakistan by india---then indian millitary personale invovled in mass killings of muslims in india---you have just broken through the crust---once you find out the true involvement of your froces----that day would be an eye opener for a conscientious indian---but then some over here from india already know what their nation has already done and what it is involved in doing right now. To them, it is just a game.

 

[Contrarian]

Hi Malay,

Pakistan never used trerrorism against india. It was the war of independence by the kashmiri muslims---war for freedom---just because George Bush forced the twist of the terminology on gun point pointed to the temple of any nation's head---the word has become twisted.


If it was before 9/11---then it was a different world---what pakistan did before 9/11 against india was fair game---the rules of engagement were different---the fight for independence had a meaning to it----as the rules of engagement and entitlements changed after 9/11 and every nation of the world was forced to kow tow to George Bush---the activities by the pakistanis also stopped.

They did mate. As did another variable. Since the starting of the 90's, India kept getting stronger and stronger. India was no longer being bound by the parity of Pakistan. Pakistan could not keep up. In the real world, the stick matters more than morals. A strong India had thus the influence, to force matters down other govt's throats as well.

Our sanctions came off---we were free to purchase our weapons systems to make our forces at par with india---we had money coming into the country and exports goping out----why would pakistan at this juncture get invovled in doing something as strange as attacking the parliament of india---there was only and only one looser in the game at that stage----and that was india and india alone---.

Pakistan's economy only started growing 2000 onwards. The attack was in 2002. Barely a difference. India at that time was also growing mate. Need i remind you, India was growing much much faster than Pakistan. Thus as India has grown, the budget available for the military has grown as well. Everything you mentioned about Pakistan, double it for India, then think of the following:

Why then i can ask you, would India attempt such a thing which would push her to a near war with Pakistan.

Parliaments of every nation are a sacred cow---no government touches them, nobody assaults their buildings, no govt takes millitary actions against the parliament of another country---but then the indians came up with their cockamany version of the parliament attack by themseleves----and on top of that brought on the forces to the border----if there was any truth to the attack---why didnot your forces follow through the attack and take over pakistan----you didn't----because it was all a staged show for the world to consume.

So according to you, because India did not attack Pakistan after 26/11, that too was staged by India for global consumption?

Btw, a war would have stopped India's growth, dont you think so? Where we are today, it is because India has not gone to war. One of the things i'l point out-the book-"the world is flat", Thomas Freidman(IIRC) says that companies like GM, etc are the reasons why India didnt goto war in 2002. They forced the GoI to tone down, as their investments would get harmed and they would have to move.

And are you disregarding the article posted above, ISI chief himself saying that Jaish was involved. Now tell me, is the JeM an Indian controlled group?

India is no saint---killings in pakistan, bomb blasts and all kinds of insurgency in pakistan by india---then indian millitary personale invovled in mass killings of muslims in india---you have just broken through the crust---once you find out the true involvement of your froces----that day would be an eye opener for a conscientious indian---but then some over here from india already know what their nation has already done and what it is involved in doing right now. To them, it is just a game.

India is no saint. India too has been involved in destabilizing Pakistan. But why are you bringing India in this, we can discuss Indian involvements in another thread. Note, i am not denying Indian involvement in subversive activities in Pakistan.

 

[Nomad]

Pakistan never used trerrorism against india. It was the war of independence by the kashmiri muslims---war for freedom---just because George Bush forced the twist of the terminology on gun point pointed to the temple of any nation's head---the word has become twisted.

Pakistan has always used terrorism against India as an extension of state policy. After the withdrawal of the USSR from Afghanistan the use of mujahadeen to fight proxy wars and win was proven. Because there was no movement on Kasmir the same tactics were used against India. For the people of Kasmir who bore the brunt of this "freedom struggle" life became hell. India also paid a heavy price but few in the world took notice.

If it was before 9/11---then it was a different world---what pakistan did before 9/11 against india was fair game---the rules of engagement were different---the fight for independence had a meaning to it----as the rules of engagement and entitlements changed after 9/11 and every nation of the world was forced to kow tow to George Bush---the activities by the pakistanis also stopped.

No it is the same world, but after 9/11 the dangers of breeding and training these "dogs of war" became obvious to every one except the GOP who used them to bleed India very effectively, and control Afghanistan by proxy. When threatened by the US to be "bombed back to the stone age" the GOP did an about face on the Taliban. Even today when Pakistan itself is being threatened by these groups there is a certain reluctance to confront these groups because they are the only means by which GOP can control Afghanistan if and when the US and allied powers leave. You have written what pakistan did to India was "fair game" others have written that it is OK to kill Indian soldiers in Kashmir. The problem is when these actions do not get enough of a reaction you have no choice but to rachet up the attacks ie the attack on the parliment, the mumbai attacks. But how many of these were done by actual Kasmiri separatist? Was Ajmal Kasab a Kahmiri liberating Kasmir. Was the Kargil war fought by Kasmiri "freedom fighters"? The last time I checked the decimated Northen Light infantry (many of whose bodies were never claimed) was part of the armed forces of Pakistan. Yet many here claim we only give "support" to the freedom fighters.

The net result is that all countries know what is going on and you can see it in their actions. So now you claim without any proof that India did these things to itself, India has a wonderful propoganda machinery, poor Pakistan would never ever condone any of this, and is being blamed unnecessarily.

Faced with all this it would be preposterous to thinks India would listen to anyone and draw down troops at the LOC.

 

[Xeric]

Pakistan has always used terrorism against India as an extension of state policy. After the withdrawal of the USSR from Afghanistan the use of mujahadeen to fight proxy wars and win was proven. Because there was no movement on Kasmir the same tactics were used against India. For the people of Kasmir who bore the brunt of this "freedom struggle" life became hell. India also paid a heavy price but few in the world took notice.

Coming this from a yank(or you are just another indian), doesn't surprises me at all.

For people like you, any and all the freedom movements of this world are some kind terrorist outfits, and not to mention, a threat to the american national security. The only legit freedom/independent movement that this world had was from YOU people!

[/B]

No it is the same world, but after 9/11 the dangers of breeding and training these "dogs of war" became obvious to every one except the GOP who used them to bleed India very effectively, [/QUOTE]
You forgot to mention what india did to Pakistan and what she is still doing.

and control Afghanistan by proxy.

Sorry sir we never wanted Afghanistan, execpt for a friendly regime which was threat to NONE! Now how could you see that, you know what peace actually 'bites' you people!

When threatened by the US to be "bombed back to the stone age" the GOP did an about face on the Taliban. Even today when Pakistan itself is being threatened by these groups there is a certain reluctance to confront these groups

Well try to compare the efforts put by the ISAF and our forces, also don't forget to compare the casualty graph, and it would be better to compare the success rate between the your forces and our military.

If we keep in mind the resources and the money that we have and national support(the opposition from our countrymen actually) in view you don't even come near us. With all thos billions, colitions and the public/world support, what exactly had you acheived as of yet?

because they are the only means by which GOP can control Afghanistan if and when the US and allied powers leave.

Ok, what a wishful thinking.

BTW, when are you leaving actually?3050, i guess? or may be later!

You have written what pakistan did to India was "fair game" others have written that it is OK to kill Indian soldiers in Kashmir.

You finger someone he will get something up your ***, simple as that. The thing is that if you can't sustain a blow, then also don't punch someone at the first place. You pissed off the extrimist Muslims and they gave you a hard time(though i am not in theor fovor, none is), the indians suppressed the Kashmiris, they have to commit troops in 6 figures there, so if you can bear something, simply don't ask for it.

Was the Kargil war fought by Kasmiri "freedom fighters"?

Yes it was!
We came in to keep our land away from 'dirt'

The last time I checked the decimated Northen Light infantry

It always have been and still is, what was the need for 'checking' it put exactly? What was the doubt?

(many of whose bodies were never claimed) was part of the armed forces of Pakistan.

If i today cover a dead body with the american flag and yell that it was a yank doing something fishy here, would you also believe it?

Yet many here claim we only give "support" to the freedom fighters.

Yes, we still claim that we have been, are and would be 'supporting' them, do something to stop us, hurry up!

The net result is that all countries know what is going on and you can see it in their actions. So now you claim without any proof that India did these things to itself, India has a wonderful propoganda machinery, poor Pakistan would never ever condone any of this, and is being blamed unnecessarily.

Faced with all this it would be preposterous to thinks India would listen to anyone and draw down troops at the LOC.

The rest doesn't merit a reading, nothing more than sheer BS!

So chill!

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

The parliament attack in dehli and mumbai attacks have nothing in common---the first one was sponsored by india on itself---the second attack was to ruin the relationship being built up between indai and pakistan.

Regardless of what you guys say and multitudes of arguments you may put forward---the bottomline is that states do not go along in destroying each others parliaments in session during times of peace. Parliaments are sacred cows---they maybe categorized as un-touchables. So this claim of a foreign govt behind the attack is outrageous and preposterous.

Malay---as you stated in your post that india had gone way ahead of pakistan in the 90's---so now pakistan has gotten a chance to re-deem its replenished defence---there is no country in any frame of mind---sane or insane would carry out any kind of attack under those conditions which existed in 2002. So---you did asnwer it yourself---india so far ahead---pakistan to do catch up---why would india want pakistan to do catch up---india stupid---no india not stupid---india very clever---kill some of your own and make it look like your enemy has done the act.

Years ago---nobody would have believed that Col Purohit was behind the killings of muslims---or the fire in the train was not caused by the muslims but an unfortunate cooking accident in the passenger coach---who would have believed these things at all---india had made all the world believe that muslims were behind the fire in the train and no other muslims were killed by any hindu radicals---the world believed evry word that the indians said---now the truth comes out---india had lied to the world---there was state sponsored terrorism involved in the killings of the muslim civilians in india.

The bottomline is that regardless of what india does---americans are going to leave afghanistan one day---the northern alliance would lose the elctions and pushtuns would be in power---so india would lose one more time.

I believe that it is about time that india swallow its pride one more time and show itself to be a leader and stop funding the terrorist activities in baluchistan and fata and move its forces away from the border. Bottomline is that, we will eventually pay back in coin either with friendship or with war. The 5 or 6 years of friendship were good years for both of us---50 years of friendship will be much better for us.

 

[jeypore]

Mr. Mastan,

Bottomline is that, we will eventually pay back in coin either with friendship or with war.

Still living in the past, I see. War is going to be out of question, so leaves the proxy wars that you mentioned several times. It terms of these proxy wars thru freedom fighter (terrorist) the days are numbered, and the glorious days of past of talibans under pakistan is gone. The world and India will not leave Pakistan alone, until these animals are erradicated and there camps fully destroyed.

You have got no positions left in the world today, either Pakistan straightens up or it will falter in pieces, where Swat and FATA becomes seperated from the federations of Pakistan.

Thanks.

 

[Hellfire]

I hope that settles the debate whether India arranged the attack on the Parliament Mastan.

Your notion that India arranged the attack is the very very same attitude of most Pakistani's thinking that Pakistan would/could never do such a thing and it was India out to malign them. The same people that said after the Mumbai Massacre that it was India who had done the attacks herself in Mumbai. But as fate had it, all of those who espoused such theories were proved wrong.

BTW, do you have some credible evidence as to whether India arranged the attacks on her own? NO. You just feel it. You came to this conclusion by thinking who gained how much and lost how much-again according to you, disregarding empirical evidence of Pakistan being complicit for decades in such terrorist activities.

And i hope the article shown above clarifies that it was Jaish, a Pakistani sponsored organization which conducted this attack.

SORRY MALAY BUT WHATEVER STUFF U SAID...and i know for a fact indians are good with words and indians make good lawyers in my view....but INDIA has no proof that PAKISTAN SPONSORED JAISH then or is sponsoring JAISH NOW in the mumbai attacks case......and who sponsored jaish to do it...well like BOUNTY HUNTERS....they can be sponsored by anyone....all the marrier get a pakistani group to do it for you....makes it look more "authentic"....besides i don't think any pakistani supports jaish and i am sorry but india failed to give any proof to INTERPOL...US or anyone that PAKISTAN GOVERNMENT was and is involved......

By any means Mastan, dont think of Pakistan as an angel, Pakistan has for decades used terrorism as an extension of state policy. Pakistan decided to start pursuing this policy when their leaders realized they would never be able to defeat India in a conventional war. Pakistan has constantly sponsored terrorism in Kashmir and elsewhere in India.

These are facts acknowledged by most of the world. There is a reason why the British PM says that 3/4ths of all terrorist activities have links to Pakistan. There is a reason why US and other countries ask Pakistan to do more. There is a reason why even China points fingers at Pakistan when it comes to their Uighur insurgency.

Why are Pakistani's blind to it, why do you think its a global conspiracy against you.



WELL like i said before in the 80s the world trained armed these people and depicted them in movies as heros movies such as RAMBO and so on.....and now when this creation goes haywire and turns into "FRANKEINSTEIN" people point fingers at pakistan i say the world should THANK US for fighting it out for them do you know PAKISTAN SPENT $34BILLION on war on terror while we recieved $11 BILLION.....so instead of indians calling us beggars or whatever they do they have to realise we are the last line of defence left for the world.....

one question i leave you with....who is funding people in ASSAM....you might say pakistan....well then i ask you who is funding jaish....yes u GOT IT...INDIA....!!!

you said PAISTAN is not an ANGEL....are you by mistake trying to IMPLY india is a PEACE LOVING NATION......please give me a break.....

your own government officials debunked your theories and half baked fantasies.

i guess remaining discussion on indian parliament attack is useless rant.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Swat and FATA becomes seperated from the federations of Pakistan.

Thanks.

The Taliban in Swat and FATA are running ideological movements, not separatist ones. If they are not stopped, the danger is not so much that they will want separate states, but that they will expand it to all parts of Pakistan and eventually Afghanistan to create one large extremist 'Islamic State'.