US Government vs Congress: Sale of F16s to Pakistan

[mingle]

Pakistan will get F16, but again dishonest govt official stop begging . People should start paying tax. Politicians need to pay billions of rupees outstanding taxes. Its a shame govt official holding billions of dollar in foreign account, but govt has unable to pay few millions for the govt security .

This current Govt is tainted with Panama plus mega corruption cases nobody will deal them from US to China .NS is fighting a lost war .

 

[Thorough Pro]

and how much did we collect when we were not under patwari raj, please provide factual figures with proper links to the sources.

Pakistan Has A Minimum Tax Potential of Rs. 8000 Billion(Roughly $80 Billion) But Don't Expect That To Be Collected As As Long We Are Under Patwari Raj


Apart From This Pakistan Has Got Mineral Wealth That Are Worth Entire G 8 GDPs(No This Is Not Me Bragging I Am Saying This With Full Responsibility Because Of Certain Documents I Have Personally Has Access To)


Cutting Off Of US Aid May Be The Best Thing That Happened To Pakistan.Next Time US and NATO Containers Come They Should Pay Market Rates For Using Our Ports and Roads

 

[Djinn]

I don't understand why some people are so upfront in their critique of the government in this matter. If anyone is to be blamed it's no one other than the PAF, why does it want the aircraft that comes with so many strings attached that it undermines the national objectives? Even if the funds are allocated by the government, do these gullible Pakistani's still think that US wont use these F-16's and their parts/services as leverage to arm twist Pakistan in the future? INMHO as a Pakistani, even if the US is willing to finance these 8 jets, Pakistan should decline the offer and explore other options. US has never been a friend to Pakistan and it never will be. Period

 

[Muhammad Omar]

ISLAMABAD - Foreign Secretary Aizaz Ahmad Chaudhry has said that government knows how to tackle those who may attempt to sabotage the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) as whole nation is united to make the project a complete success.

Talking to media persons and scholars at a breakfast yesterday, the foreign secretary said that certain elements were out to create chaos in Balochistan, but the government and people of Pakistan were fully prepared to deal with any outfit or a country which had any problem with CPEC as it would turn out to be an economic game changer.

Admitting the trust-deficit between Pakistan and India, Secretary Foreign Affairs Aizaz Chaudhry said whenever the stalled dialogue between the two countries will resume the Kashmir issue will occupy the centre stage.

To a question on stalled composite dialogue with New Delhi, he said Islamabad made it clear to India that the issue of Kashmir could not be dropped out from these talks.

"Whenever there will be talks between Pakistan and India, Kashmir will remain on top of the agenda," he said.

He said the arrest of Indian spy Kulbushan Yadav from Balochistan had verified India's involvement in Pakistan's internal affairs.

He admitted, however, that there was a trust-deficit between Pakistan and India which needed to be removed for better ties between the two nations.

He further said that whenever the two countries came closer the non-state actors managed to sabotage the peace process by indulging in some terrorist activity either in India or Pakistan.

He said after the Pathankot terror attack in India they had decided to extend full cooperation to New Delhi as they sincerely wanted to take the peace process forward.

“Now the decision on validity of the information passed on to Pakistan by India will be made by the court of law,” he said when asked about the progress on the case.

To a question, he rubbished any linkage between the F-16 deal with United States with Shakeel Afridi, saying that Pakistan wanted F-16s for the ongoing war against terror and hoped that Washington would understand Islamabad’s position.

He said they would continue their efforts to convince United States for the provision of F-16 planes on subsidised rates because Pakistan was not in a position to pay full payment for the planes after the withdrawal of funds for the purchase of eight fighter jets.

Pakistan had earlier struck a deal with America for purchase of eight F-16 planes for which Pakistan has to pay around US $ 270 million while rest of the money was to be paid by the United States from its Foreign and Military Finance Fund which requires approval from US Congress.

The US State Department earlier this week said Pakistan would have to pay from its own funds if it wanted to buy F-16 fighter jets, after the US Congress last month withdrew funds for the deal to force Pakistan to act against the Haqqani network.

Pakistan had conveyed to the US that it did not have the money to buy F-16 jets from its resources and has cautioned that if the stalemate over funding is not resolved it may consider buying some fighter aircraft from elsewhere to meet its needs.

Among the ostensible reasons behind the Congressional hold are concerns that Pakistan has not taken enough action against the Haqqani network; jail sentence for Dr Shakeel Afridi and some other military related reasons.

The foreign secretary said Daesh had no organised presence in Pakistan, and only a few people had claimed an association with the terrorist outfit.

Pakistani agencies were fully alive to the situation to deal with any threat from these elements, he said and referred to the successful military operation Zerb-i-Azb which had virtually broken the backbone of militants across the country.

He further said that ongoing combing of settled areas under the National Action Plan would help the law enforcement agencies to flush out the remnants of the militant outfits already on run after the operation Zerb-i-Azb.

On Afghan issue, he said Islamabad considered the solution of problem was to hold negotiations for which Pakistan was making sincere efforts.

On repatriation of Afghan refugees from Pakistan, the foreign secretary said that serious efforts were underway in this connection and hoped that the process would be initiated with the mutual cooperation of both Pakistan and Afghan authorities.

He also indicated that Pakistan will host SAARC summit scheduled for November.

 

[Djinn]

PAF knows better than you and your Government. Why do they need these birds ? Answer is simple because JF17 is not that potent to take on India. Pray tell me why Chinese Airforce did not induct JF17 if it is such a good aircraft whereas F16 is used by many countries world wide.

History speaks otherwise, PAF has always been crippled in a war/crisis situation when ever it has come down to American equipment and for that if PAF wont learn then it will have to be pushed. "potent" enough or not we rather have jets flying instead of the "state of the art" ones which are rendered useless. Not to mention the American arm-twisting that comes at the cost of these F-16's, compromises National interests which are far more important than the PAF and it's love affair with F-16's. JF-17 and F-16 are different kinds of platforms and perform different roles and JF-17 isn't Pakistan's only option. The lesser Pakistan has to rely on US for it's defense solutions the better it is for the whole country not just PAF.

 

[Spectre]

Hypothetically, lets say we have to fully finance the deal. Just think about it. For a country of 200 million people, isnt it shameful to not be able to arrange just 400+ million dollars!!?

Pakistan is telling US it has no money. If I m US, I will say 'go f*ck yourself'. You cant beg F-16s. Stop begging please! People will respect you if you stop seeking cheap money. Cheap money actually comes at a very high price and that price is self dignity and self respect.

Suzuki is claiming it is ready to invest $460 million in Pakistan. Does that mean Suzuki has more money than Pakistan? How shameful this comparison could be!

Pakistani Govt is in net debt and hence has to control it's purse strings because foreign institutions basically finance the govt expenditure.

Suzuki is a profit making company whose sole purpose is to make profit by selling cars unlike Pakistani Govt which has thousand and one responsibilities and few sources of avenue.

 

[Zahoor Raja-Jani]

Indian lobby at best but bet with me Pakistan will get the required jets with US funds any way. This show is just to put pressure on Pak for some hidden conditions like to have more access of CIA in Pakistan thats all.
Indian Kids Gona cry at the month end any way...Chill bros

 

[Dalit]

Hypothetically, lets say we have to fully finance the deal. Just think about it. For a country of 200 million people, isnt it shameful to not be able to arrange just 400+ million dollars!!?

Pakistan is telling US it has no money. If I m US, I will say 'go f*ck yourself'. You cant beg F-16s. Stop begging please! People will respect you if you stop seeking cheap money. Cheap money actually comes at a very high price and that price is self dignity and self respect.

Suzuki is claiming it is ready to invest $460 million in Pakistan. Does that mean Suzuki has more money than Pakistan? How shameful this comparison could be!

I thought everything was dandy under Nawaz Sharif's premiership? The Pak economy has improved by leaps and bounds according to Panama league's admission?

This is what I was thinking. You need something, Why don't you want to pay for it. 700 million $ is not a bog amount for a country. How can you expect United States to pay for you ? Pay for it and take it.

PAF knows better than you and your Government. Why do they need these birds ? Answer is simple because JF17 is not that potent to take on India. Pray tell me why Chinese Airforce did not induct JF17 if it is such a good aircraft whereas F16 is used by many countries world wide.

You know nothing about the JF-17 project. Currently, the PAF lacks a pod on this fighter for precision strikes. Once a pod has been aqcuired and integrated in the JF-17 we won't need the F-16 for precision strikes. Until then, it would have been better for the F-16s to carry out the job.

Too bad for the Americans though. They have a whole host of wishes from Pakistan. The US has lost Pakistan as an ally.

Indian lobby at best but bet with me Pakistan will get the required jets with US funds any way. This show is just to put pressure on Pak for some hidden conditions like to have more access of CIA in Pakistan thats all.
Indian Kids Gona cry at the month end any way...Chill bros

You are kidding yourself. This deal is off.

Pakistani Govt is in net debt and hence has to control it's purse strings because foreign institutions basically finance the govt expenditure.

Suzuki is a profit making company whose sole purpose is to make profit by selling cars unlike Pakistani Govt which has thousand and one responsibilities and few sources of avenue.

That is funny because isn't your country also financing the acquisition of Rafale and other military hardware? Don't they have thousand and one responsibilities? We understand that some of you Indians love ganjoo due to his relation with Modi, but don't stoop this low.

 

[Zahoor Raja-Jani]

@Dalit
not yet off funding will be available in any form

 

[Dalit]

@Dalit
not yet off funding will be available in any form

Highly unlikely. The Americans are not going to subsidize the fighter. It is a blessing in disguise. Time to move on and focus on the upgradation of JF-17.

 

[Mughal-Prince]

Hmmm Thats just fine now we must ask for the payment of the service without any leverage or discount which we are providing them in Afghanistan. We the people of Pakistan are suffering from WOT of USA it should be paid well to us.

 

[volatile]

It does make sense ,Even though we can arrange payment but point being lets see how far US will go since we are cleaning there mess for the last 30 Years or so . 700 Mil US$ for 8 jets doesn't make sense ,this jet should not cost us more than 40 Mil a piece considering all Infra structure is there

 

[Dalit]

Pakistani government and other associated institutes should stop repeating themselves on a daily basis. The deal is off and time has come to move on. Don't have money? Keep churning out JF-17s and arrange a pod. Upgrade avionics and electronics. If you have the money, approach China and Russia for alternatives. Nothing complicated.

 

[volatile]

Pakistan will get F16, but again dishonest govt official stop begging . People should start paying tax. Politicians need to pay billions of rupees outstanding taxes. Its a shame govt official holding billions of dollar in foreign account, but govt has unable to pay few millions for the national security .

Frankly in military purchases its Armed forces who are incharge not Civilian Govt .Stop taxing will not help Pakistan cause in any way possible as major chunk goes to our defence requirement so in the end we create more problem for defence . Regarding Panama leaks its off topic for this but since it is discussed i will share some info with you .

https://panamapapers.icij.org/blog/20160406-FAQs.html

Should I assume that everyone that appears in the Panama Papers is involved in tax avoidance or evasion?
No. There are legitimate reasons to create a company in an offshore jurisdiction and many people declare them to their tax authorities when that is required.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/04/04/opinions/panama-papers-ghitis/

"The documents detail potential malfeasance in democracies, autocracies and dictatorships alike, and powerful people around the world are no doubt breaking out in a cold sweat. To be sure, a name in the Panama Papers is no proof of wrongdoing. A disclaimer by the ICIJ, which coordinated the investigation, states that "There are legitimate uses for offshore companies, foundations and trusts," adding that those listed in the papers may not have "broken the law or otherwise acted improperly." Indeed, throughout history, people have often sought to conceal their assets in unstable political environments, sought protections from predatory regimes that persecuted their enemies and might confiscate their belongings, or simply wanted anonymity."

Now point being not to defend or offend any one but 4th Gen Media warfare creates unrests that no bomb can ,think before act

Regarding Funding of Panama leaks

Our supporters
The ICIJ is a non-profit organization. We give our work away for free. We rely heavily on charitable foundations and on financial support from the public. Without your help, we cannot exist.

Cross-border investigative journalism is among the most expensive and riskiest in the world.

Recent ICIJ funders include: Adessium Foundation, Open Society Foundations, The Sigrid Rausing Trust, the Fritt Ord Foundation, the Pulitzer Center on Crisis Reporting, The Ford Foundation, The David and Lucile Packard Foundation, Pew Charitable Trusts and Waterloo Foundation.

http://www.adessium.org/ Link not working about website /Can you believe that
https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/grants-search-results/39/all/all/all/all This site if you see is serious some of the grant org under umbrella are pretty scary stuff (rights,Constitutional amendements and see for your self) Owned by

George Soros
FOUNDER / CHAIRMAN

Investor and philanthropist George Soros established the Open Society Foundations to help countries make the transition from communism.


Christopher Stone
PRESIDENT

Christopher Stone is the president of the Open Society Foundations. He is an international expert on criminal justice reform and on the leadership and governance of nonprofits.

I guess both our buddies are on CIA pay roll .I can go on and on with all this but this will be off topic .

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Frankly in military purchases its Armed forces who are incharge not Civilian Govt .Stop taxing will not help Pakistan cause in any way possible as major chunk goes to our defence requirement so in the end we create more problem for defence . Regarding Panama leaks its off topic for this but since it is discussed i will share some info with you .

https://panamapapers.icij.org/blog/20160406-FAQs.html

Should I assume that everyone that appears in the Panama Papers is involved in tax avoidance or evasion?
No. There are legitimate reasons to create a company in an offshore jurisdiction and many people declare them to their tax authorities when that is required.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/04/04/opinions/panama-papers-ghitis/

"The documents detail potential malfeasance in democracies, autocracies and dictatorships alike, and powerful people around the world are no doubt breaking out in a cold sweat. To be sure, a name in the Panama Papers is no proof of wrongdoing. A disclaimer by the ICIJ, which coordinated the investigation, states that "There are legitimate uses for offshore companies, foundations and trusts," adding that those listed in the papers may not have "broken the law or otherwise acted improperly." Indeed, throughout history, people have often sought to conceal their assets in unstable political environments, sought protections from predatory regimes that persecuted their enemies and might confiscate their belongings, or simply wanted anonymity."

Now point being not to defend or offend any one but 4th Gen Media warfare creates unrests that no bomb can ,think before act

Regarding Funding of Panama leaks

Our supporters
The ICIJ is a non-profit organization. We give our work away for free. We rely heavily on charitable foundations and on financial support from the public. Without your help, we cannot exist.

Cross-border investigative journalism is among the most expensive and riskiest in the world.

Recent ICIJ funders include: Adessium Foundation, Open Society Foundations, The Sigrid Rausing Trust, the Fritt Ord Foundation, the Pulitzer Center on Crisis Reporting, The Ford Foundation, The David and Lucile Packard Foundation, Pew Charitable Trusts and Waterloo Foundation.

http://www.adessium.org/ Link not working about website /Can you believe that
https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/grants-search-results/39/all/all/all/all This site if you see is serious some of the grant org under umbrella are pretty scary stuff (rights,Constitutional amendements and see for your self) Owned by

George Soros
FOUNDER / CHAIRMAN

Investor and philanthropist George Soros established the Open Society Foundations to help countries make the transition from communism.


Christopher Stone
PRESIDENT

Christopher Stone is the president of the Open Society Foundations. He is an international expert on criminal justice reform and on the leadership and governance of nonprofits.

I guess both our buddies are on CIA pay roll .I can go on and on with all this but this will be off topic .

The main idea behind Panama leaks is the juggernaut of debt, around 19 trillion dollars, that is facing America menacingly. It is estimated that perhaps around 192 trillion dollars of looted money of global crooks is residing in these off shore companies. America is eyeing this treasure for confiscation to fill it's own coffers. Hence the George Soros link.

In nutshell, we in Pakistan are potentially looking at our looted money which these crooks, so called politicians stached in offshore companies, to be further looted by America and it's allies. We need to move quickly to bring this money back.