US Government vs Congress: Sale of F16s to Pakistan

[ACE OF THE AIR]

There is back up plan. But is involve F16 too ..............




We need to replace 12 Squadrons by 2020.
F16 will replace 2-4 of them.
And its better to hurry for schedule as there are no further options available..........

If PAF gets out of the F-16 then it can look toward the Typhoon. Pakistan make a deal with the Italians to provide not just EFT but also other needed equipment. This would not cost much because the delivery time could be extended till 5 -7 years.

If say that 12 sqd are to be divided between JF-17 and EFT the cost of EFT would not be more that 8 billion for 6 sqd.
The rest can be Heli's for the Army, JF-17 Goodies and Naval ships the grand total would not be more the 20-billion Payable in 5 -7 years is around 3 - 4 billion. This is affordable.

 

[Mssniper966]

So does these 8 F-16 gives new Capabilities to the Air Force?

Nope but this platform is already inducted so it might be cheaper wrt j10b which has same capabilities as f16 blk52... Personally I think Pakistan should have had invested in j19 b Long before..,,

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

for "analysts" who think F16 is past their due date, i salute you. You have no idea of air operations, our theatre, and the capability of an F16 aircraft, even the Block 20 or Block 40. The MLU bird, after falcon up, re-engining, and new avionics is a superb capability to have. This is a good investment that shall serve Pakistan well for next 20 years.

 

[New World]

If PAF gets out of the F-16 then it can look toward the Typhoon. Pakistan make a deal with the Italians to provide not just EFT but also other needed equipment. This would not cost much because the delivery time could be extended till 5 -7 years.

If say that 12 sqd are to be divided between JF-17 and EFT the cost of EFT would not be more that 8 billion for 6 sqd.
The rest can be Heli's for the Army, JF-17 Goodies and Naval ships the grand total would not be more the 20-billion Payable in 5 -7 years is around 3 - 4 billion. This is affordable.

3-4 billion are too much for just investing in airforce..

 

[Mr.Nair]

Outsourcing US military industrial complex to india and media frustration.F16 with 'Made in India' tag in future

 

[IceCold]

for "analysts" who think F16 is past their due date, i salute you. You have no idea of air operations, our theatre, and the capability of an F16 aircraft, even the Block 20 or Block 40. The MLU bird, after falcon up, re-engining, and new avionics is a superb capability to have. This is a good investment that shall serve Pakistan well for next 20 years.

And who is going to provide spareparts for them once sanctions come up, you?
The point you and people like you fail to understand is that its not the capability of the Jet we question, its rather the duplicity of the supplier who at any point in time can choke the life out of these machines and make no mistake about it, sooner or latter we Pakistanis are up for a rude awakening more so if the likes of Trump make it to the white house.

 

[Dalit]

And who is going to provide spareparts for them once sanctions come up, you?
The point you and people like you fail to understand is that its not the capability of the Jet we question, its rather the duplicity of the supplier who at any point in time can choke the life out of these machines and make no mistake about it, sooner or latter we Pakistanis are up for a rude awakening more so if the likes of Trump make it to the white house.

Right on the money. Investing in the F-16s is tantamount to signing your own death warrant. The Americans needed Pakistan during the Cold War and hence provided the F-16s back then. Even during that time they were highly reluctant. Although, back then, the acquisition of F-16 made sense. Today, the acquisition of F-16 is foolhardy. It is an investment with only negative returns.

Some of us here are under the illusion that papa Yank is an ally. Well, papa Yank is far from being an ally. It doesn't take Nostradamus to predict this. The writing is on the wall and has been for a very long time. Unfortunately, we don't have honest and patriotic leaders who would understand such a thing because they only care about their short-term gains if you can even call it that. Political leadership in Pakistan is all about survival and stealing from the poor. The leadership doesn't care about the well-being and interests of the nation.

Oh, and another important thing. It wouldn't take a Trump for a rude awakening. Mark my words. Hillary would be an even bigger problem for Pakistan.

 

[Freyja]

Good countdown begins for US as well and speially Lockheed martin

How much does Lockheed Martin really care about missing out on 8 F-16s? They're getting paid, a lot right now and are gearing up for an increase in production of these:

The way people are talking about this F-16 saga is as if Lockheed Martin's going out of business without this deal. Save your countdown for something else, Lockheed's going to be just fine.

 

[volatile]

How much does Lockheed Martin really care about missing out on 8 F-16s? They're getting paid, a lot right now and are gearing up for an increase in production of these:

The way people are talking about this F-16 saga is as if Lockheed Martin's going out of business without this deal. Save your countdown for something else, Lockheed's going to be just fine.

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...6-fighting-falcon-heading-retirement-or-14129
8 are first order followed by 10 more .There will be massive job cuts in US alone for F16 /F18 /F15 production lines .Its not about Pakistan ,its about keeping the production line till F35 can absorb people from these lines

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

3-4 billion are too much for just investing in airforce..

that is combined with Pakistan Army and Pakistan Navy not only Airforce.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

“At the dawn of the creation, confided Gabriel to man,
Uninspired is the heart that is ruled by the mind.”
-Muhammed Iqbal

Come on the US policymakers – if you want to abandon Pak that’s fine, but you could’ve done this in a more elegant manner commensurate with your Super Power status - not for a mere 8 F-16s for God's sake. You can’t juxtapose the Super Poor imprint on your mindset!! It sheds a lot of focus on your discretion because of the quality of your new-found buddies – a man is known by the company he keeps. You can’t be 100% sure that you’ll remain the sole uncontested boss in the town forever for there’s another aspiring one. Although that guy is a minnow now but his motivation and determination are like “sky is the limit”. The world is watching over Pak’s shoulder.

Yes relationship with Pak carries a lot of baggage, but which doesn’t? However, the Paks were there during spying over USSR, making relationship with China, destroying USSR in Afghanistan, or running WOT on Al-Qaida. When you ditched her in 90’s 9/11 occurred without any clue. Even a small adventure like taking out OBL without informing the Paks ended up in China having the access to the finished stealth goods to have her own F-22/F-35 like Apple phones. It just doesn’t add up.

Anyway, what’s gonna happen is gonna happen. It’s not a fable any longer- people do slay the goose that lays golden eggs..

 

[Imran Khan]

no we should not pay them lets forget f-16 once forever and move ahead

 

[Mr.Nair]

'Make in India' boost: Boeing & Lockheed Martin offer to locally manufacture F16 and F/A 18 jets

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

 

[Freyja]

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...6-fighting-falcon-heading-retirement-or-14129
8 are first order followed by 10 more .There will be massive job cuts in US alone for F16 /F18 /F15 production lines .Its not about Pakistan ,its about keeping the production line till F35 can absorb people from these lines

Let's see, The F-18 and F-15 aren't Lockheed products, they're Boeing's and Boeing is a major subcontractor of the F-35 program, so they'll have marginal loses. Plus Boeing's considering leaving the combat aircraft game altogether after losing out on major US contracts recently.

They've had greater success with tanker, ELINT/SIGINT and MPA tenders anyway. The F-15 and F-18 aren't even Boeing designs, the work for the Hornet and Super Bug and Eagle were done my Mac D.

As for maintaining the line, well there's little hope of that anyway, with or without Pakistan's order and LM knows this.

http://www.f-16.net/fleet-reports_article12.html

Less then 40 aircraft, 36 F-16s for Iraq and whatever Pakistan may or may not get. That's it for this year's F-16 line so far.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/f-16-fms.htm

The talk of setting up a Make in India production line means LM knows this is no longer a viable long-term operation. Keeping the line on life-support while they chase new orders is barely a thing anymore. They're coming to grips with the realities of the 4gen fighter market. Increased competition, decreased demand and the major players focused on the next generation of airframes, this leaves LM without much incentive to keep the line open beyond fulfilling its current orders.

In the mean time, the F-35 provides the US alone with 146,000 jobs, and thousands more around the world.

https://www.f35.com/about/fast-facts

8, 18 or whatever Pakistan is ordering isn't saving this line.

 

[Dalit]

Bravado aside, It is a tricky situation for Pakistan, one that needs to be handled with a lot of care. let's not forget that the only front-line fighter that PAF is the F-16. These airplanes still need up-gradation and spares. Yes spares can be sourced from other countries but then if this is your only front-line fighter there is peace-of-mind when you know you can get them whenever you need them.

the lollywood dialogues don't help. U.S did it's part in offering the planes, if Pak doesn't have the money, politely decline the offer. All this drama may and talk about getting it from some where else is counter productive.

Depending on the package these 8 may still be a good deal. I don't think Pakistan has the money to induct a new platform and the logistics involved. Even if Pakistan has the money, there is no option at the moment other than the Chinese.

You are living in a fools paradise. First, let's get your facts right. The Obama administration is the one which proposed the F-16 deal. Yes, Pakistan has previously asked for F-16s, but in this instance the offer directly came from the Obama administration. The Obama administration has even clarified this proposal to win or rather bribe the support of Pakistan in the failed war in Afghanistan. This is an established fact. The original subsidized Obama deal changed as soon as the congress stepped in. Therefore, expecting Pakistan to pay the entire sum is simply put garbage and atrocious.

Tricky situation? You make it sound like as if F-16 is the only fighter on the planet available to PAF. You need a reality check. Sooner or later the PAF is going to have replace its aging fleet. The induction argument doesn't hold at all. The PAF is going to have to deal with this fact anyway. Whether the PAF starts this process incrementally at this stage doesn't really matter.

Just because the Indians are in denial regarding the Russian option doesn't mean that this really is the case. Contrary to Indian disbelief, Pakistan has held talks with Russian counterparts. This has been confirmed by various credible sources. We don't know where the talks are at the moment, but we cannot rule out anything. Then, of course we have other Chinese alternatives which easily surpass the F-16. In other words, the F-16 is a highly sanction prone fighter with no dividends for the PAF. It made sense during the Cold War, but today it is a liability.

Pakistan isn't going to pay 700 million dollars for 8 F-16s and some spares. Pakistan has much much better options for that kind of money. This deal might be good for you, but for Pakistan it is not done. Pakistan has rightfully protested the change of the initial terms of conditions. The Americans can set all the conditions they like. We're not going to buy this aircraft without any subsidizing. Period. We can live without the F-16.