What's new

US drone war kills up to 168 children in Pakistan: report

and its ironic that you are preaching Jesus Christ, when at the same time you have no problems with people (innocents) being killed in these strikes...


I am sure that you want to have the last word. But, above, you are putting words in my mouth. I never said that I "have no problems" with people (innocents) being killed in the drone strikes. YOU know that I never said that. I, personally, wish that we had never become the protector of Israel. Because I think that that is why we were attacked on 9/11 and why we are continually drawn into these Muslim affairs. But the irony is that we have this save-the-world-complex. We cannot just bomb every target worth bombing in Afghanistan and then leave. We have to try to build a modern nation out of the rubble we have made. That's stupid and arrogant, I agree. But what is happening in Pakistan is far more complicated then just the stupidity of the USA. No, the stupidity of the Pakistani dream of hegemony over Afghanistan is also at play.

It is so trite to say that the loss of any innocent life is regrettable. Anyone can say that. I say that. But once war has been started, that is what is going to happen, and continue to happen until the war can be stopped. The war for America in Afghanistan is going to be stopped soon. Whether or not it also ends for Afghanistan and for Pakistan is up to your nation.
 
I am sure that you want to have the last word. But, above, you are putting words in my mouth. I never said that I "have no problems" with people (innocents) being killed in the drone strikes.

and yet you flatly denied that innocent people get killed in these strikes? The reality is such that for every innocent killed, it makes the lives of those fighting terrorism (yourselves and your troops included) much more difficult.

and I didnt get the impression that you would agree to this, considering recent statements you made. You seemed quite dismissive:

[FATA] is terrorist enemy territory, and reports of civilian casualties are just propaganda to advance the terrorist cause.


It is so trite to say that the loss of any innocent life is regrettable. Anyone can say that. I say that. But once war has been started, that is what is going to happen, and continue to happen until the war can be stopped. The war for America in Afghanistan is going to be stopped soon. Whether or not it also ends for Afghanistan and for Pakistan is up to your nation.

not just Pakistan but the whole region.....Iran shouldnt (and cant) be side-lined from the calculus nor can the land-locked CARs

the should haves and could haves cant be ignored...history can never be ignored

though we should spend more time looking to today.

without an iota of a doubt, the war hasn't eradicated terrorism....it has created more violence and more terrorism.

whether its victims of suicide blasts or a limbless child whose only crime was to be at the wrong place at the wrong time, they feel the same agony that the people in twin towers (and their families/friends) felt on 9/11/2001
 
Abu Z, NO ONE is saying it is anything less than tragic that innocents get killed. I think we can all agree with the notion that it is terrible.

The problem is, some finite percentage is unavoidable if war is executed. So rather than wringing hands about the why, we should focus on the how. How to conduct a war on terrorists who pretend to be civilians.

Throughout human history, enemy combatants captured out of uniform were executed. This was done because of this very reason, that it makes discernment of combatants from civilians impossible, and exposes civilians to lethal attacks.

If the Taliban, Al-Quaeda, or TTP, would put on a uniform, even an arm band, which is specifically mentioned by the Geneva Protocols, then they could be differentiated. But they don't, they hide within populations. How can they be pursued or attacked?

Sooner rather than later, U.S./ISAF forces will be gone, but the terrorists will remain, and Pakistan has to answer this question... How do we fight them? If Pakistan fights, civilians will die. If Pakistan doesn't fight, Taliban/TTP will win, and all of Pakistan will look like Afghanistan (at least socially) circa 1998.
 
Abu Z, NO ONE is saying it is anything less than tragic that innocents get killed. I think we can all agree with the notion that it is terrible.

The problem is, some finite percentage is unavoidable if war is executed. So rather than wringing hands about the why, we should focus on the how. How to conduct a war on terrorists who pretend to be civilians.

Throughout human history, enemy combatants captured out of uniform were executed. This was done because of this very reason, that it makes discernment of combatants from civilians impossible, and exposes civilians to lethal attacks.

If the Taliban, Al-Quaeda, or TTP, would put on a uniform, even an arm band, which is specifically mentioned by the Geneva Protocols, then they could be differentiated. But they don't, they hide within populations. How can they be pursued or attacked?

Sooner rather than later, U.S./ISAF forces will be gone, but the terrorists will remain, and Pakistan has to answer this question... How do we fight them? If Pakistan fights, civilians will die. If Pakistan doesn't fight, Taliban/TTP will win, and all of Pakistan will look like Afghanistan (at least socially) circa 1998.

The scenario which you are using to try to justify your argument only makes you lead towards the idea of total military solution to this problem.The fact you are missing is that military solution is only part of this problem not the total solution to exterminate the terrorism.If it have than you would have succeeded by now in Afghanistan.

In practice this camouflaging of militants with in the civilians will not hamper your efforts if you make the civilians work on your side.You can only achieve that by gaining their trust and these drones despite all the physical efforts we are putting in are hampering all our efforts to gain the confidence of the civilians.

In either of the solution we choose, the problem which you are mentioning will exists no matter what.So I think it will be good that if you have tried the first option for ten years you should now let us try the other one and have faith in us.

---------- Post added at 08:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:38 PM ----------

Abu Z, NO ONE is saying it is anything less than tragic that innocents get killed. I think we can all agree with the notion that it is terrible.

The problem is, some finite percentage is unavoidable if war is executed. So rather than wringing hands about the why, we should focus on the how. How to conduct a war on terrorists who pretend to be civilians.

Throughout human history, enemy combatants captured out of uniform were executed. This was done because of this very reason, that it makes discernment of combatants from civilians impossible, and exposes civilians to lethal attacks.

If the Taliban, Al-Quaeda, or TTP, would put on a uniform, even an arm band, which is specifically mentioned by the Geneva Protocols, then they could be differentiated. But they don't, they hide within populations. How can they be pursued or attacked?

Sooner rather than later, U.S./ISAF forces will be gone, but the terrorists will remain, and Pakistan has to answer this question... How do we fight them? If Pakistan fights, civilians will die. If Pakistan doesn't fight, Taliban/TTP will win, and all of Pakistan will look like Afghanistan (at least socially) circa 1998.

The scenario which you are using to try to justify your argument only makes you lead towards the idea of total military solution to this problem.The fact you are missing is that military solution is only part of this problem not the total solution to exterminate the terrorism.If it have than you would have succeeded by now in Afghanistan.

In practice this camouflaging of militants with in the civilians will not hamper your efforts if you make the civilians work on your side.You can only achieve that by gaining their trust and these drones despite all the physical efforts we are putting in are hampering all our efforts to gain the confidence of the civilians.

In either of the solution we choose, the problem which you are mentioning will exists no matter what.So I think it will be good that if you have tried the first option for ten years you should now let us try the other one and have faith in us.
 
I, personally, wish that we had never become the protector of Israel. Because I think that that is why we were attacked on 9/11 and why we are continually drawn into these Muslim affairs.
To be frank, you know that what ever that you have scraped above is lie, the reason for OBL to turn against US was not because US supported Israel, its because of your Military presence in the Muslim world. You wanted to counter the Russians by putting up bases near to Russia, but you should have with drawn once the cold war was over and should have scraped your NATO alliance. Instead you stayed in their land trying/ and succeeding in controling their internal affires. Thats the reason that got yourself in deep sh*t.
But the irony is that we have this save-the-world-complex. We cannot just bomb every target worth bombing in Afghanistan and then leave. We have to try to build a modern nation out of the rubble we have made. That's stupid and arrogant, I agree. But what is happening in Pakistan is far more complicated then just the stupidity of the USA. No, the stupidity of the Pakistani dream of hegemony over Afghanistan is also at play.
Save the world Complex, where were you when the Serbian Genocide Happened, where were you when the Ruwanded Genocide Happened, where were you when Tamils were eliminated systamatically in Sri Lanka.
Just don't try to fool the world with your attractive words. Accept the fact that we know our affires better than a think tank sitting in the US giving your president on how the nations in the EAST should behave.
 
Abu Z, NO ONE is saying it is anything less than tragic that innocents get killed. I think we can all agree with the notion that it is terrible.

It is....because in this case, a war against terrorism is being fought --that's the objective I assume. But these are tribal areas, its a conservative culture.

Let me make an analogy for you, in order to ''Americanize'' this scenario and make it feel closer to home. Lets imagine Mexican drug smugglers and cartel representatives (heavily armed, dangerous people) were taking refuge in San Antonio, Texas ---which enjoys a sizeable Mexican/Latin American population. Most of the people there are American nationals, or naturalized Americans. They vote for American parties, they have American passports; they may not be wealthy or anything, but they are represented as constituents by elected members of local government.

will you allow drones to fly above those areas and fire hellfires at suspected cartel members, knowing that innocents could (and will likely be) killed? In doing so, wont the whole area erupt in arms? As it is, Texas is a heavily armed state. By attacking those people, what position are you putting the local government in? They are losing loyal constituents day by day, perhaps previously non-violent people will turn to violence --out of anger and lust for revenge.

Do you want to exacerbate an already volatile situation along a volatile border? To me, it sounds like political suicide.

The mistake the Americans make (and im very very frank with my American friends) --- if you want to market this as a ''joint effort'' and ''partnership'' then view it as one. America should have given Pakistan the Drone technology. There was never any question about Pakistans intentions when they cleaned up South. Waziristan, Orakzai, Bajaur/Swat, or ongoing ops in Kurram Agency and other areas which saw insurgency (some which are still seeing miscreant elements during a tense calm).

in the eyes of many of those on the ground --they feel that this is not their war that is being fighting and they are being dragged into this war.

our side made and continues to make mistakes too, but on a broader level, Pakistan is the one that is ultimately having to pay the largest price.....2001 brought us more refugees and more terrorists from across the border --as they were pushed out from Afghanistan. The border should have been contained at a very early stage.



The problem is, some finite percentage is unavoidable if war is executed. So rather than wringing hands about the why, we should focus on the how. How to conduct a war on terrorists who pretend to be civilians.

its a nightmare scenario because the terrorists can easily blend in....hard to distinguish friend from foe.

the cowardly enemy hides near civilians....to some large extent, civilians are the ones who have tipped off the security forces because they are ardently opposed to them...of course in some areas, locals (who themselves are innocent) may have been paid or threatened to allow militants to get shelter and cover.

the point is, the enemy is the enemy...they will be treated and seen thusly. But these battles (and the larger war itself) require a multi-pronged approach....not just from the barrel of a gun.



Throughout human history, enemy combatants captured out of uniform were executed. This was done because of this very reason, that it makes discernment of combatants from civilians impossible, and exposes civilians to lethal attacks.

If the Taliban, Al-Quaeda, or TTP, would put on a uniform, even an arm band, which is specifically mentioned by the Geneva Protocols, then they could be differentiated. But they don't, they hide within populations. How can they be pursued or attacked?

God knows we all wish they wore uniforms and only fought conventionally.



Sooner rather than later, U.S./ISAF forces will be gone, but the terrorists will remain, and Pakistan has to answer this question... How do we fight them? If Pakistan fights, civilians will die. If Pakistan doesn't fight, Taliban/TTP will win, and all of Pakistan will look like Afghanistan (at least socially) circa 1998.

well we have fanboys who think once the NATO leaves, all will be honkie-dory.....

no, they wont. The problems will linger on; but somehow we'll just have to manage with it. Afghanistan always has been and always will be a God-forsaken country to deal with....at least in our lifetime.

we do hope for a friendly government, because through some form of leverage we can at least make them know that miscreant/anti-social elements will not be tolerated, and that they themselves should be compelled to ensure that this drugs/weapons/warlord culture is reduced to the greatest extent possible

me personally, im not too optimistic about Afghanistan; this war will go on for at least another 5-10 years. Nothing will change overnight. But the most important thing is to have the tribes on your side. With proper investment (schools, infrastructure, services)...give them some incentives

and yes --easier said than done.....there are people who want to keep the country back-asswards who would still be willing to blow all those things up. Those people must be arrested, or crushed by force.



Afghanistan can not be abandoned because we already know what happened in the past....things should be done differently. If there is peace and sanity in Afghanistan, there will be no security problems or terrorism in Pakistan I can assure you.
 
Chogy sir your american men and women in uniform were playing sex games with poor iraqis in abu gharib and innocent Pakistanis and Afghanis were being water-boarded in Bagram whom you later released years later cause u found nothing on them and your kill teams teams were mutilating fingers from dead afghan civilians as war trophies and bombing weddings while your commander in chief was lecturing the world on Great American Value system.
Now you are voilating international law everyday and commiting war crimes by killing Pakistani women and children.
 
Chogy sir your american men and women in uniform were playing sex games with poor iraqis in abu gharib and innocent Pakistanis and Afghanis were being water-boarded in Bagram whom you later released years later cause u found nothing on them and your kill teams teams were mutilating fingers from dead afghan civilians as war trophies and bombing weddings while your commander in chief was lecturing the world on Great American Value system.
Now you are voilating international law everyday and commiting war crimes by killing Pakistani women and children.


well at in Abu Ghraib case, action was taken against those unprofessional ''soldiers'' --they are no longer serving. I dont know about Bagram; though the rendition sites are still very much existing
 
well at in Abu Ghraib case, action was taken against those unprofessional ''soldiers'' --they are no longer serving. I dont know about Bagram; though the rendition sites are still very much existing

sir most of the sex games went unreported as you know they are pretty good in covering up and censoring along with their zionist media and also you know rape in american army is highest with 1 in 3 female soldier reporting rape

1/3rd of Women in US Military Raped | NEWS JUNKIE POST

goes on to show the "Great Amerian Values" commander in chief of america brags about everytime he shows before the camera
 
Incorrect - the US chose to avoid a resolution to the issue of bringing the alleged 9/11 perpetrators to justice through cooperation and engagement, and instead chose to rush into war. There is no justification for your argument that 'war was the only option/choice'.

AQ would have been decapitated a long time ago had it not been for the two US wars and invasions. AQ's presence in Iraq was essentially non-existent before the US invasion. It was the US invasion that acted as a catalyst for AQ's popularity and rise in Iraq and the Arab world, and the subsequent sharing of expertise and experience with groups in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
You are correct that AQ network found sanctuary in Iraq after the collapse of the Iraqi regime. However, it has been taken care off.

It is also largely the domestic law enforcement, military and intelligence operations in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia that have resulted in a significant part of the 'operational Al Qaeda organization' to be decapitated. The US wars and invasions only added to the problems and violence and support for these organizations and therefore made the job to 'decapitate' AQ that much harder.

US policies since 9/11 have only acted as a catalyst for the growth of Al Qaeda, Taliban and other extremist organizations - these organizations would have been controlled much easier in the absence of US wars and invasions.
Do not forget the role of CIA in all of this which was covert in the beginning. However, CIA changed its tactics later on and began to use its military muscle under the banner of Drone Campaigns.

Pakistan is doing much more then what the US is doing or has done.
I disagree with this. Reasons provided below.

Instead of asking us, why don't you ask the Americans that why they had 500K+ troops in Iraq, while on the other hand they hardly have or had 100-120K troops in whole of Afghanistan, while Pakistan has more soldiers in Tribal areas then what US/NATO deploys in whole of Afghanistan.
Their are no 500K+ US troops in Iraq. US troops even in peak times did not reached this number in OIF.

Also, US has withdrawn most of its combat forces from Iraq by now. OIF is about to reach its conclusion.

However, I fully agree that much higher attention should have been paid to Afghanistan. US possessed the capability to change the situation in Afghanistan but it wasted its resources on the needless war in Iraq.

Pakistan has done successful operations against the militants and retaken back areas controlled by them, effectively and efficiently, and those militants who fled went to Afghanistan, where US forces left border posts and whole Afghan provinces to them to rest, get rearmed and attack back Pakistan.
You did not get the full picture yet? We are looking after our own interests and US is looking after its own interests. The issue is that these interests collide with each other.

We have taken action against groups which mainly harbored anti-Pakistani ambitions. Particularly TTP has been our primary target. However, we are not willing to take action against those groups which are nuetral towards us like Haqqani Network but are enemies of US.

This is the reason that US decided to use its own proxies in the region against us. It is a two-way game. Both sides are guilty of duplicity here.

So if this is the potency being shown by the US, then compared to them, we are much better and have performed better.

So go ask the US about its intentions and impotency rather then coming here uttering you BS.

And next time if you used the impotency kind of words, you will get impotent on the forum yourself. So watch your mouth.
The position of US is very different from ours. We fought inside our homeland.

In contrast, US is forcibly occupying a nation. The war is much more challenging to US then it is to us. However, US can be blamed for showing little commitment to correct the situation in Afghanistan. It concentrated far more on the Iraqi front instead.

Obama is not violating international law. If so, why doesn't the GoP call him to task?
Drone campaigns are illegal. Obama has almost broken all barriers in this regard.
 
Abu Z, as always I appreciate your measured reply instead of simply claiming we're all running around raping everybody... a popular way to somehow illustrate the "decadence" of the U.S. Or intentionally killing children.

My daughter has been in the Army for 3 years now, hasn't been touched or even improperly propositioned. In fact, U.S. male soldiers take care of their female troops and would kick the crap out of anyone who even attempted to harm them. But it sure sounds good to claim they are all horny criminals.

The mistake the Americans make (and im very very frank with my American friends) --- if you want to market this as a ''joint effort'' and ''partnership'' then view it as one. America should have given Pakistan the Drone technology. There was never any question about Pakistans intentions when they cleaned up South. Waziristan, Orakzai, Bajaur/Swat, or ongoing ops in Kurram Agency and other areas which saw insurgency (some which are still seeing miscreant elements during a tense calm).

I can't say I disagree with what you've written. The Texas analogy isn't quite there, though, because the Mexican drug cartels are based in Mexico. They don't leave Texas, enter and attack Mexico, then retreat back to Texas. The impression most of the world has (note the word impression - not necessarily reality) is that Pakistan is not in control of her sovereign territory.

I do agree with the notion of Pakistan operating the drones. The reality is that the drones ARE very effective, with al Quaeda and Taliban leadership being gutted. But here's the big "What if..."

Let's suppose it's 2002. The U.S. hands over to Pakistan 100 Predator drones, all the equipment and training to use them. Would the fact that Pakistan is operating and firing them make innocent casualties somehow more palatable?

Being dead is being dead. Whether it's the U.S. or Pakistan doing it, you're still dead, and it sucks for innocents.

Finally, this has been said before, but anyone who believes the Pakistani military and Government are not intimately involved with these drone ops isn't seeing clearly. Of course they are. Pakistan provides the bulk of the intel.
 
Abu Z, as always I appreciate your measured reply instead of simply claiming we're all running around raping everybody... a popular way to somehow illustrate the "decadence" of the U.S. Or intentionally killing children.

My daughter has been in the Army for 3 years now, hasn't been touched or even improperly propositioned. In fact, U.S. male soldiers take care of their female troops and would kick the crap out of anyone who even attempted to harm them. But it sure sounds good to claim they are all horny criminals.

Sorry if this is personal but is your daughter an officer or enlisted? I think this makes a difference.
 
Abu Z, as always I appreciate your measured reply instead of simply claiming we're all running around raping everybody... a popular way to somehow illustrate the "decadence" of the U.S. Or intentionally killing children

Because serious debates can still be mature, without overly emotional talk


The Texas analogy isn't quite there, though, because the Mexican drug cartels are based in Mexico. They don't leave Texas, enter and attack Mexico, then retreat back to Texas. The impression most of the world has (note the word impression - not necessarily reality) is that Pakistan is not in control of her sovereign territory.

My main point was that when innocents get killed, whatever footprint the government has in those areas --- tribesmen can turn against govt if they feel alienated or unprotected by their own ‘’leaders’’

Enemies are created this way….it endangers us and endangers NATO troops as well, since otherwise ordinary people are more likely to be radicalized. I do agree that the civilian govt has failed to establish its full writ in the FATA area. It’s always been somewhat autonomous; but it never used to be as unstable as it is today.

I do agree with the notion of Pakistan operating the drones. The reality is that the drones ARE very effective, with al Quaeda and Taliban leadership being gutted. But here's the big "What if..."

2 of America’s main concerns:


a.) annoying indians by selling this tech to Pakistan
b.) assumption that Pakistan will supply the tech to Chinese


if the U.S. is willing to sell us block 52 F16s I don’t see why they aren’t willing to provide ARMED unmanned aircrafts. The UAVs we use do not have the ability to fire munitions; it would save us resources and time if we had this capability.

It would build trust if there was this cooperation much earlier on…..instead, civilians feel left in the dark and get anger over sovereignty violations and the fact that innocents do die…..surely the US would feel the same way if Canadians or Mexicans did that.

Let's suppose it's 2002. The U.S. hands over to Pakistan 100 Predator drones, all the equipment and training to use them. Would the fact that Pakistan is operating and firing them make innocent casualties somehow more palatable?

A little bit more…..because it would be seen as a Pakistani offensive and not foreign aggression as they see it. But obviously in COIN ops, painstakingly great lengths are taken to ensure that there are no (or at least as minimum as ‘minimum’ could be) civilian casualties

Being dead is being dead. Whether it's the U.S. or Pakistan doing it, you're still dead, and it sucks for innocents.

Well yes it sucks for those who become limbless; or those who lose family members….as I said, the tribal culture is an honour-based one. If they feel that their honour or integrity is violated there is a likelihood they will begin to ‘’resist’’

Finally, this has been said before, but anyone who believes the Pakistani military and Government are not intimately involved with these drone ops isn't seeing clearly. Of course they are. Pakistan provides the bulk of the intel.

If wikileaks are to be believed, the president allows the strikes but publicly does not acknowledge them. I don’t know what the agreements are. But ultimately it is the govt. that makes the decisions and they will have to live with them.

Pakistanis just don’t want to be left in the dark; they also don’t want to feel like they are fighting a war that they feel doesn’t belong to them. It doesn’t mean that they have surrendered to the militants/extremists –who are the real threat to Pakistan. But they feel that the way all parties are going about fighting terrorism is flawed. The bilateral relations in cold water at this time and with all the hostile diplomatic language and posturing is not helping at all either.

Both sides need to re-draw the fine red lines and respect certain ground rules --- under the previous regime there seemed to be a greater understanding. There was better intel coordination, there weren’t spies being used (garbed as contractors of aid workers); there weren’t Raymond davises etc. ; and from Pakistans side, we were arresting all the dangerous/wanted men affiliated or linked to al qaeda without even a question.

With no trust, cooperation or respect how can both sides be effective ‘’partners’’? These 3 things are crucial in any relationship.
 
Kindly, can any american give a reply for the post 125. I wish to see on how you "SAVE THE WORLD Complex" works
 
In Praise of Drones

The case for using armed unmanned aerial vehicles in Pakistan is stronger than ever.

By SADANAND DHUME

Like a late night rerun of a once popular TV show, the debate about the U.S. use of armed drones in Pakistan's tribal areas refuses to fade away.

Last week, the London-based not-for-profit Bureau of Investigative Journalism published a series of articles accusing the U.S. of covering up numerous civilian casualties over the past year. And in a New York Times op-ed on Sunday, retired Admiral Dennis Blair, President Barack Obama's former director of national intelligence, declared that America's drone campaign "is eroding our influence and damaging our ability to work with Pakistan to achieve other important security objectives like eliminating Taliban sanctuaries, encouraging Indian-Pakistani dialogue, and making Pakistan's nuclear arsenal more secure."

Critics of the officially secret program have been wrong since its inception in 2004. Drones represent the most discerning—and therefore most moral—form of aerial warfare in human history. In Pakistan, they keep terrorists on the run. They also give policy makers in Washington a handy stick to wield against an ostensible ally that has repeatedly shown that it doesn't respond to carrots alone.

But first the criticism: According to the Bureau's journalists, the drone campaign has killed at least 45 civilians in Pakistan over the past year. This flatly contradicts a claim in a June speech by top Obama counter-terrorism advisor John Brennan of drones not causing "a single collateral death" since last August. For some critics, Predator and Reaper drones—the two most common varieties—conjure up images of sinister remote-controlled robots let loose to spread mayhem. Others equate drone strikes with illegal assassinations.

Then there's the realpolitik argument. Drones allegedly create day-to-day friction in U.S.-Pakistan relations that get in the way of Washington pursuing broader economic and political objectives in the country. Without the bad blood they cause, as Adm. Blair suggests, ties between Washington and Islamabad would be free to flourish.

To be fair, neither argument can be casually dismissed. The claim of zero collateral deaths in a land where militants often live with their families, or cheek-by-jowl with other civilians, appears implausible on the face of it. The strikes—53 so far this year—tend to draw street protests and harsh criticism from the Pakistani press. Both Pakistan's parliament and the provincial assembly in Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa province have passed resolutions calling for their end.

On closer examination, however, this case collapses. According to U.S. government officials quoted in the Times, the Bureau's reportage is unreliable. To begin with, Pakistani authorities, and the local reporters they hold sway over, have an incentive to fabricate or exaggerate casualty figures. That the reports rely, at least in part, on information provided by a Pakistani lawyer who publicly outed the CIA's undercover station chief last year doesn't help their credibility either.

Though even a single civilian casualty ought not to be taken lightly, the focus on alleged collateral damage distorts the essence of the drone program. In reality, technology allows highly trained operators to observe targets on the ground for as much as 72 hours in advance. Software engineers typically model the blast radius for a missile or bomb strike. Lawyers weigh in on which laws apply and entire categories of potential targets—including mosques, hospitals and schools—are almost always off bounds.

All these procedures serve one overriding purpose: to protect innocent civilian life. The New America Foundation's database of strikes shows it's working. This year civilians made up only about 8% of the 440 (at most) people killed in drone strikes in Pakistan down from about 30% two years ago. As for affecting U.S. popularity on the ground, according to the Pew Global Attitudes survey, the U.S. favorability rating—long battered by conspiracy theories and an anti-American media—hovers at about 12%, almost exactly where it stood before the program's advent seven years ago.

At the same time, the program also serves a larger purpose. One of Washington's most pressing objectives in Pakistan is to end the use of its territory for attacks on NATO forces in Afghanistan. Another is to wean the country off its historic support for terrorist groups operating in Afghanistan, India and beyond. It cannot achieve either without the help of the Pakistani army and its notorious spy agency, Inter-Services Intelligence.

But, riddled with jihadist sympathizers, and with a two-decade old belief in its mission to dominate Afghanistan and bleed India, the Pakistani army has so far shown little inclination to do much more than the bare minimum. The violently anti-American Haqqani network remains comfortably ensconced in North Waziristan near the Afghan border. And terrorists such as Lashkar-e-Taiba founder Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, whose group was behind the 2008 Mumbai attacks that killed 166 people, including six Americans, routinely give inflammatory speeches to adoring crowds.

Against this backdrop, drones offer a practical way to eliminate some terrorists (such as al Qaeda's Ilyas Kashmiri, killed in a strike in June) and keep others on the move. They also raise the incentives for the Pakistani military to crackdown on terrorism on its soil, or else deal with the social unrest unleashed by the strikes. Indeed, instead of cutting back on drones, the U.S. should threaten to ratchet up their use should the army and ISI fail to crack down on anti-NATO forces in Afghanistan. Upward of $20 billion in aid over the past decade has not done enough to alter Islamabad's behavior. A carefully calibrated drone strategy, backed by resolve to stay the course in Afghanistan, may produce better results.

Mr. Dhume is a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute in Washington, and a columnist for WSJ.com.

Sadanand Dhume: In Praise of Drones - WSJ.com
 

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom