This is a very sensitive issue, and the heat is definitely ON in this thread.
However, I think all of you should try and keep your heads cool about this. (Easy for me to say, because I just tuned in).
Anyhow, it's clear that we have the majority of Pakistanis who simply despise these drone attacks.
Now, the main reason alot of Pakistanis including myself, do not approve of these drone strikes, is that we have a very hard time digesting the fact that some people far far away in the U.S. sitting in a room, controlling these drones, are carrying out these strikes on our soil.
It brings a feeling or sense of cowardice, and combine that with this report on innocent children being killed, the sheer arrogance of the U.S. to conduct secret operationgs inside Pakistan etc, and you have the perfect formula to infuriate the Pakistani members on this board, and the Pakistani people in general.
Ofcourse, this is modern warfare, and face to face combat will become even more rare in the future..
Now the American point of view on this matter, as I read from some of these posts is basically saying:
The GoP has no direct control or influence over the FATA, therefor it can be used by insurgents to conduct both attacks in Afghanistan and Pakistan aswell.
Pakistan would never had to be involved, had the GoP taken direct control over the FATA etc.
Also, unsurprisingly, alot of Americans think that the GoP/PA is unable to do the job on its own soil, because the army is trained for conventional warfare and our government is supposed to be incompetent. (which I agree). However, our troops now have more than significant experience in COIN operations.
Being the sole superpower in the world, it doesn't take much to get the full wrath of the American military machine on your a**
9/11 was the reason to deploy their troops in Iraq/Afghanistan.
Since 2500+ Americans had died in those twin towers, President Bush back then "sold" us and the rest of the world this sorry excuse that Iraq was part of the axis of evil etc.. And it had to be taken care of.
Now that had the full backing of the American people back then, because they had just been struck hard, and they demanded justice.
Revenge, retaliation, what every you want to call it..
And boy did the "Revenge" part come hard on all of us...
Ofcourse, any country would react if it had been hit by a terrorist organisation. Whether it was a smart thing to do to hit the U.S.A with those planes, well one can say that it wasn't..
We're living in 2011 now, and it's safe to say that in Iraq alone, hundreds of thousands of people have died due to the, at first hand, apparent liberation of Iraq, and after that... the occupation.
The occupation which was necessary because a civil war erupted. Now blame the Shia's and Sunni's for this, but had the Americans not jumped in guns blazing,there wouldn't have been a civil war in the first place.
As for Afghanistan, yes I am glad that Taliban influence is heavily reduced and that alot of people can be free in their minds and choices they make without being threatened by the Taliban.
But in both Iraq and Afghanistan, and now partially the Pakistani border, you can argue the handling of the U.S. in those situations.
There were other options on the table, referring to the drone strikes in Pakistan.
One of those options was to actually give the drone technology to Pakistan, let Pakistani soldiers conduct these missions and operate these drones, instead of an American national.
It's a huge difference in the hearts and minds of the Pakistani people, if a drone strike is carried out by someone from the Pakistani army, instead of an individual from the American army.
And again, the American people think that they're better off conducting these strikes themselves, because the GoP/PA would not be able to do it as succesful as the U.S. would.
Add that to the fact that our government has strongly denied allowing the U.S. to operate these drones in Pakistan, even publicly denouncing/dissaproving it, while in the background, lending the U.S. certain bases and operating grounds to perform their actions.
So they gave the Americans permission to do this, under pressure I assume, but why did the GoP lie to the Pakistani people?
It is the main reason alot of Pakistani people are divided over these drone strikes. What role does our government and army play in this? Are we really as helpless as we seem to stop them or persuade the Americans to let us operate them?
Why do the Americans neglect the domestic sentiments in Pakistan over these drone strikes? An angry Pakistani public is extremely counterproductive for both America and Pakistan.
It puts the relationship between both countries on a thin line, and this is also an area which is debatable.
Why doesn't the U.S. share some of its technology or weaponry so that we can fight these insurgents more effectively? Why do they choose to do it themselves?
For the American people, do not complain when alot of Pakistani are growingly anti-west or anti-American.
No country would accept violation of their sovereignty. The U.S. has breached this multiple times and frankly, it doesn't seem to care much about that. As long as their interests are served..
Rightfully so, our government is as weak as a puppy, and unless they stand up and show a pair of balls, we will be feeling the heat of these drones more often.
Collateral damage is part of this type of warfare, but you do get the feeling that the U.S. doesn't drop many tears over these innocent deaths, as long as mainland America is safe and sound.
I mean, yes we know innocent people have died during 9/11. But is there a justification for the aftermath? The deaths of hundreds and thousands of people in Iraq/Afghanistan. And our own people/soldiers have died since the U.S. came crashing down the party on our border.
Whether these numbers are correct or not, the fact remains that innocent people including children have died due to these drone strikes. Not only in Pakistan, but plenty of innocent children have died in Iraq etc aswell.
It's unacceptable, dialogue was never on the agenda for the Americans. Pure warfare was. War is not always the solution, and once you're in the middle of it, you can't back down.
To sum things up, let's see what the Americans and Pakistanis would desire, in order to mutually have a sense of understanding for both parties.
Pakistan:
1. Stop these drone strikes immediately, or hand over the ability/technology + intelligence to co-ordinate these attacks by ourselves.
2. Look for more dialogue with the government and army of Pakistan, instead of being irrational and showing signs of arrogance when it comes to the U.S.-Pakistani relationship.
No more "we act as we please, and you simply put up with it".
3. The U.S. should do more to portray Pakistan as an actual ally which is doing its utmost to combat these insurgents, instead of constant bashing in their media of Pakistan and its institutions.
4. Actually proceed in building better ties with Pakistan, instead of conducting an OBL type of raid and publicly backfire on Pakistan all over the media in the world. (Similar to point 3).
5. Be honest and sincere in what you do. Because we have the feeling that the U.S. is two-faced when it comes to helping its most strategic and important ally in this war on terror.
If Israel is allowed to buy the F-22 raptor, and receive imminent support from America, then why does Pakistan, with much hassle, get a few old refurbished Cobra helicopters for example? Why don't we get the "full" support of the U.S. in this war?
I'm just taking a few examples, but if you look at it in a broad perspective, it is strange.
If the U.S. has any interests in mending relations with Pakistan, respect is the key. You can't conduct strikes on our soil and still say: "Well hey, we're trying our best to be friends with the Pakistanis, but they just won't co-operate".
That's hypocrit.
As for the Americans:
1. They want more transparency with the GoP, the PA, and the ISI.
Meaning that they would like to know how much and what exactly Pakistan is doing, and whether or not it is doing its best to fight off these extremists.
(Something, which again, can be encouraged by showing documentaries on American TV etc about the war on terror and the different fronts the Pakistani Army is fightning on).
So the American public is skeptic, alot of Americans think that the ISI collaborates with some of these insurgent groups, while debatable, there is no hard evidence for this.
While there is hard evidence that the U.S. / CIA had armed these groups in the past, and now it's a nuisance for all of us in the region.
2. Most Americans will justify most means in order to defend their homeland and interests abroad. Which is understandable.
However, and i've noticed, that jumping in guns blazing with this America F*ck Yeah mentality, will never gain you much popularity.
The American people are insecure and feel that these terrorist groups are aimed against them and their way of life.
While actually, these groups and their mindsets at first, simply hated American dominance and interference in almost every corner of the world.
America's growing superpower status and involvement in world politics was reason enough for certain militant groups to strike the U.S. whenever possible.
And they will choose the dirtiest tricks in the books, because they cannot fight the U.S. conventionally.
So what i'm trying to say is... the U.S. has alot of work to do when it comes to their image.
The American people should decide whether or not the military option was and is a wise thing to pursue. Or atleas the magnitude of the force which was used.
3. The Americans believe that once the GoP has full control of FATA, they would not have a reason to be conducting strikes.
Which, in a sense, is understandable, but going back to the root causes of this break in relations between Pakistan and the U.S.
It's the mindset and the way of thinking, that the U.S. can and will do anything regardless of the opposition to go after their targets and get their objective one way or another.
And this mindset has irked alot of hatred among people for America.
I probably forgot some more points, but I don't want this post to become huge.
Conclusion: We're a long way from home, and unless relations are to be restored between the GoP and the U.S. government, both government bodies need to be more transparent, honest and dedicated in resolving this matter.
If we want these drone strikes to be stopped, our government has to take responsibility instead of acting or perhaps really being a helpless housecat.
The Americans on their turn need to be more just in their actions, try not to force their will down our throath, because just like the Americans, Pakistanis are proud people too. And we don't like it when people pay us an unexpected visit inside our own borders.
Hence we fought 3 wars already with India..
The deaths of these innocent children in Pakistan due to these drone strikes, is to be blamed on both the Government of Pakistan and the U.S. Government, the guilt has to be shared. And we all need to take a good look and review the current methods of working together.
The only people benefitting from the unrest in Pakistani-U.S. relations are the insurgents.
As of now, we face a common enemy, and it's no use fingerpointing at each other, we need to co-operate and destroy this menace which is acting as a plague right now.
We need a way forward, that's for sure, instead of looking at our own gains, we need to look at the common gains, look what we can BOTH achieve.
It's a difficult relationship, but it can be made easy if both parties really wanted it.
Also, every life lost is precious, I've noticed members trying to distinguish certain loss of life, which is wrong.
Whether it's an American, Pakistani, Indian, Zulu or whatever, every lost life in this conflict is unacceptable and painful. I think we all realize that.
