US drone war kills up to 168 children in Pakistan: report

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

AZ: Given the roles of Saudis, and Pakistanis like KSM, are you suggesting that the appropriate targets for US invasion should have rightly been Saudi Arabia and Pakistan?

The Saudis and Pakistan have both in fact done a lot more against Al Qaeda through local intelligence and law enforcement action than the US has achieved in its wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, which have in fact acted as catalysts for the spread of terrorism in multiple nations, especially the two that were invaded (Iraq and Afghanistan) and Pakistan.

KSM, Libbi and various other high level AQ terrorists were apprehended by Pakistani security forces, and AQ as an organization was largely marginalized in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia because of domestic law enforcement and intelligence action against it.

The US invasions have only made the task to take on AQ and its sympathizers harder, not easier, and the invasions have allowed AQ to build alliances with and export expertise to various other groups in the regions affected by the two US wars and invasions.

 

[VCheng]

KSM is/was not Pakistani. He was Kuwaiti/Palestinian.

As far as I know, KSM was a Pakistani citizen of Baloch ancestry, and very well connected within Pakistan, despite having been born and raised abroad. He was caught in the house of the lady nazim of a well known Jamat in Rawalpindi, was he not?

the war on Afghanistan was a knee-jerk reaction. It would be very naiive and stupid to think that 9/11 (and whoever waged it) was making a war statement. I knew on that day there would be war. Innocents died, many of them.

War is indeed an ugly business, and I think all people realize that, including, believe it or not, USA too.

Doesnt mean that innocents on this part of the world have to suffer because of something they had nothin to do with.

There is some truth in what you say, but then again when society fails, like it did in Afghanistan, the costs are paid by many.

but then you have people like Truthseeker who sit comfortably behind a screen....very few times i have wished ill on others. But in his case, i'd love to see something happen to one of his own family members. Then he would understand what its like to lose someone close in such a senseless way.

I don't know many people here since I am new here, so I cannot speak for others, but I do know the pain of war and of losing family members, so please rest assured I chose my words to express my thoughts as honestly and as fairly as I can make them.

 

[VCheng]

The Saudis and Pakistan have both in fact done a lot more against Al Qaeda through local intelligence and law enforcement action than the US has achieved in its wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, which have in fact acted as catalysts for the spread of terrorism in multiple nations, especially the two that were invaded (Iraq and Afghanistan) and Pakistan.

Correct, so the US avoided war where co-operation was forthcoming, and engaged in war only where it wasn't.

KSM, Libbi and various other high level AQ terrorists were apprehended by Pakistani security forces, and AQ as an organization was largely marginalized in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia because of domestic law enforcement and intelligence action against it.

Also correct, so the US continued to work in collaboration with its allies to destroy a mutual enemy, hence a good policy.

The US invasions have only made the task to take on AQ and its sympathizers harder, not easier, and the invasions have allowed AQ to build alliances with and export expertise to various other groups in the regions affected by the two US wars and invasions.

I would disagree with that. AQ is been decapitated, and mopping up will be complete in short order.

 

[gambit]

This so called culture of warriors was supported and utilized by your very own government against the Soviets.

All that you suffer from today is what you allowed to flourish for your advantage during Reagan's era.

FATA would never have become a hub for terrorism if America, Saudi (your dog) and your Pakistani puppets didn't allow it to happen.

You radicalized and destroyed generations for your rivalry and look how you suffer today as a result.

Its a damn shame that America has the audacity to act as if it is the victim, the enabler is the reason for all this nonsense and the enabler is you.

We 'allowed' and 'radicalized' people? Sorry, buddy...But once again you attributed near omnipotent powers to US. The radicalization process of someone's mind is not possible by putting inanimate objects in their hands. It is done by injecting malleable ideas into his head. During the Afghan occupation by the Soviets, EVERYONE in the region has interests and the radicalization process of resisting infidels was there long before we got involved. Deny your own enabling if you like but no one with any iota of objectivity will buy your argument.

 

[Luftwaffe]

We 'allowed' and 'radicalized' people? Sorry, buddy...But once again you attributed near omnipotent powers to US. The radicalization process of someone's mind is not possible by putting inanimate objects in their hands. It is done by injecting malleable ideas into his head. During the Afghan occupation by the Soviets, EVERYONE in the region has interests and the radicalization process of resisting infidels was there long before we got involved. Deny your own enabling if you like but no one with any iota of objectivity will buy your argument.

The United States is a Leading Terrorist State, Noam Chomsky interviewed by David Barsamian

Indeed talibs/jihadis were created by the US, who else promptly forced them to fight in the name of God only US, perhaps you should read what mr. brzezinski his team were talking about.

On the record Mr. Brzezinski asks and tells on the camera to those afghan fighters Calling them Soldiers of God to double their efforts.

His words:
"We know of their deep belief in God that We are confident that their struggle will succeed. Pointing finger in a direction; he says "That Land over there is yours, you will go back to it one day because your fight will prevail and you will have your homes and mosques because your cause is right and God is on your side."

Pretty sums it up that Jihad notion was specifically in reference to Afghanistan started by US and it took a boost specifically in Afghanistan.

You own trusted Hillary Clinton accepts and testified US funded, trained, equip jihadis/terrorists.

 

[gambit]

Complete BS - drug related violence and death far exceeds the casualties the US suffers from terrorism, but you don't see anyone arguing for 'blowing up suspected drug neighborhoods' in the quest for eliminating drug lords and dealers. After all, they too are 'residing amidst innocent civilians'.

Complete BS. Terrorists have different motivations than those who committed drug related violence and killings. Different motivators require different responses. But if the state is willing, then the state certain can bring extraordinary means to combat illicit drug dealers. You forget that we have far more destructive means that we could field in Afghanistan?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Complete BS. Terrorists have different motivations than those who committed drug related violence and killings.

The motivation is irrelevant - what drives the response in the case of terrorism is the fear of future attacks and therefore casualties. The death count and associated social and economic costs from drug related violence and activity by far exceed those from terrorism, annually.

Different motivators require different responses.

Nonsense - that is a bogus canard to justify the more violent, destructive and irrational US response, at the cost of hundreds of thousands of innocent lives in Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan. Motivations mean little, it is the 'damage', i.e casualties, that drive the response, and in terms of casualties, drug related activity should require the obliteration of many neighborhoods in the US via 'drone strikes' targeting 'mid to low level dealers and leadership'.

The only reason people like you drag up 'motivations' is in order to demonize the other, 'Mooslums' in this case, de-humanize them, and therefore garner support from the electorate in the US for the significantly more irrational and violent US response, resulting in significant innocent civilian casualties, despite drug related activity in the US causing many magnitudes more damage than 'terrorism' and seeing a completely different problem solving approach.

You forget that we have far more destructive means that we could field in Afghanistan?

So apparently you are not satisfied with US policies causing the massacres of hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Correct, so the US avoided war where co-operation was forthcoming, and engaged in war only where it wasn't.

Incorrect - the US chose to avoid a resolution to the issue of bringing the alleged 9/11 perpetrators to justice through cooperation and engagement, and instead chose to rush into war. There is no justification for your argument that 'war was the only option/choice'.

I would disagree with that. AQ is been decapitated, and mopping up will be complete in short order.

AQ would have been decapitated a long time ago had it not been for the two US wars and invasions. AQ's presence in Iraq was essentially non-existent before the US invasion. It was the US invasion that acted as a catalyst for AQ's popularity and rise in Iraq and the Arab world, and the subsequent sharing of expertise and experience with groups in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

It is also largely the domestic law enforcement, military and intelligence operations in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia that have resulted in a significant part of the 'operational Al Qaeda organization' to be decapitated. The US wars and invasions only added to the problems and violence and support for these organizations and therefore made the job to 'decapitate' AQ that much harder.

US policies since 9/11 have only acted as a catalyst for the growth of Al Qaeda, Taliban and other extremist organizations - these organizations would have been controlled much easier in the absence of US wars and invasions.

 

[Awesome]

I think Pakistan started this war not in 2001 with its unstinted support to the US, but its unstinted support to Taliban in 1994-96 in capturing Afghanistan. Its just that the effects of that decision took a decade and a half to manifest ...

And before that Afghan government for being anti-Pakistani, firing scuds and sending in Migs into Pakistani territory?

However you cut it, Pakistan did not draw first blood.

 

[Awesome]

If we are that comfortable with killing children, as in DELIBERATELY seeking out such targets, we would not be making excuses for such killings. Instead, you should ask why is there a culture of 'warriors' where they are so comfortable of making themselves familiar with death that they have no problems pulling in non-combatants with their actions.

You can make an excuse ONE time, After 160 times you're a big fat liar.

And you have two standard excuses:

1. We are firing at the militants, the children come in the way. The children should have moved away.
2. The children were associated to militants hence they will grow up to be militants so we did the world a favor.

These are excuses of psychopaths.

 

[killeragent]

Someone said "My cousin's son died" and some dumb idiot kids from his country are giving thanks to his post..Insane
May he rest in peace, its indeed sad.

Mods should have a policy of remove immature kids from this forum irrespective of their nationality. Their maturity level doesn't make them understand what to do and what not to.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Someone said "My cousin's son died" and some dumb idiot kids from his country are giving thanks to his post..Insane
May he rest in peace, its indeed sad.

Mods should have a policy of remove immature kids from this forum irrespective of their nationality. Their maturity level doesn't make them understand what to do and what not to.

The thanks is for sharing of the post / info. The thanks is not cheering the death of the kid, its a thanks to the member for his sharing of something which was found to be useful or to be acknowledged by a thanks.

 

[Nitin Goyal]

Rather questioning US pakistani should questions their government and army . what the hell they are doing to stop this terrorism ? What a impotency ?

 

[TaimiKhan]

Rather questioning US pakistani should questions their government and army . what the hell they are doing to stop this terrorism ? What a impotency ?

Pakistan is doing much more then what the US is doing or has done.

Instead of asking us, why don't you ask the Americans that why they had 500K+ troops in Iraq, while on the other hand they hardly have or had 100-120K troops in whole of Afghanistan, while Pakistan has more soldiers in Tribal areas then what US/NATO deploys in whole of Afghanistan.

Pakistan has done successful operations against the militants and retaken back areas controlled by them, effectively and efficiently, and those militants who fled went to Afghanistan, where US forces left border posts and whole Afghan provinces to them to rest, get rearmed and attack back Pakistan.

So if this is the potency being shown by the US, then compared to them, we are much better and have performed better.

So go ask the US about its intentions and impotency rather then coming here uttering you BS.

And next time if you used the impotency kind of words, you will get impotent on the forum yourself. So watch your mouth.

 

[Nitin Goyal]

Pakistan is doing much more then what the US is doing or has done.

Instead of asking us, why don't you ask the Americans that why they had 500K+ troops in Iraq, while on the other hand they hardly have or had 100-120K troops in whole of Afghanistan, while Pakistan has more soldiers in Tribal areas then what US/NATO deploys in whole of Afghanistan.

Pakistan has done successful operations against the militants and retaken back areas controlled by them, effectively and efficiently, and those militants who fled went to Afghanistan, where US forces left border posts and whole Afghan provinces to them to rest, get rearmed and attack back Pakistan.

So if this is the potency being shown by the US, then compared to them, we are much better and have performed better.

So go ask the US about its intentions and impotency rather then coming here uttering you BS.

And next time if you used the impotency kind of words, you will get impotent on the forum yourself. So watch your mouth.

Don't need to get hyper. U get me wrong I was talking about the american terrorism inside Pakistan. If you have seen my previous post I have said the same thing that killing of innocent children by Americans drones is sheer terrorism and that should be stop.

My question was as we all know and facts are there to prove that US is killing innocent people of Pakistan what Pakistan is doing to take care of their citizen ? Isn't that the height of impotency when there is no official statement criticizing the US actions ? Isn't that the impotency when you are not able to save your citizens ? Us will take action against whatever they perceive a threat to their country but what Pakistan is doing to save her citizens.

As a Pakistani you should raise your voice against injustice. This killing is not acceptable.