US Attack on Iran Would Turn Into Protracted Conflict, Engulf Mid East – Scholar

[jhungary]

Its been defeated and now its seeking to negotiate an uneventful exit with the Taliban.

Depends on what you mean by "Defeat" or "Winning"

In any war, there are always 2 objective goals

1.) Military Objective
2.) Political Objective.

In term of Military Objective, the US won almost all the engagement between US and Taliban. There are some lost but those are not affecting the overall military objective. And that is pushes Taliban out of Afghanistan.

In the 14 years US and ISAF troop were there, Taliban have 0 control in Afghanistan, their existence has been relegated from state government force, to insurgent.

On Political objective, US/NATO were never meant to stay in Afghanistan, unless US crave Afghanistan into 51st US States (Which is kind of odd to do so) and which mean the political objective for US is to first get rid of the Taliban Government, and second, establish a moderate government so whatever happened in 2001 will not happens again. The US/NATO have achieve that. Taliban is gone, Bin Laden is killed, what more do you want the US to do to stay in Afghanistan? The Cumulative point have already achieve the longer the US stays, the more liability it will become for the American. I mean what else were US/ISAF troop to do, there are no more objective.

The problem with Afghanistan now is the government of Afghanistan itself, they are the one that's in charge of Afghanistan, unless, again as I said, US wanted to annex Afghanistan into 51 US States, there are of no interest for the US to keep helping the afghan regime after all major objective have achieve. I meant would that be logical the US troop stays in Afghan for 50 years after the war is over just to help out the afghan government? The afghan government depending on the ISAF to fight their battle is their business, to the US or NATO Command, those are afghan job, not theirs.

 

[The Accountant]

This is not about invading Iran, so popular support for and solidarity with the government is essentially meaningless.

Then I agree, destroying Iran and its infrastructure is not difficult however, be ready for retaliation ... Iraq and Afghanistan despite of being in Isolation cost US a lot ...

 

[Dexon]

In the 14 years US and ISAF troop were there, Taliban have 0 control in Afghanistan, their existence has been relegated from state government force, to insurgent.

 

[The Accountant]

Depends on what you mean by "Defeat" or "Winning"

In any war, there are always 2 objective goals

1.) Military Objective
2.) Political Objective.

In term of Military Objective, the US won almost all the engagement between US and Taliban. There are some lost but those are not affecting the overall military objective. And that is pushes Taliban out of Afghanistan.

In the 14 years US and ISAF troop were there, Taliban have 0 control in Afghanistan, their existence has been relegated from state government force, to insurgent.

On Political objective, US/NATO were never meant to stay in Afghanistan, unless US crave Afghanistan into 51st US States (Which is kind of odd to do so) and which mean the political objective for US is to first get rid of the Taliban Government, and second, establish a moderate government so whatever happened in 2001 will not happens again. The US/NATO have achieve that. Taliban is gone, Bin Laden is killed, what more do you want the US to do to stay in Afghanistan? The Cumulative point have already achieve the longer the US stays, the more liability it will become for the American. I mean what else were US/ISAF troop to do, there are no more objective.

The problem with Afghanistan now is the government of Afghanistan itself, they are the one that's in charge of Afghanistan, unless, again as I said, US wanted to annex Afghanistan into 51 US States, there are of no interest for the US to keep helping the afghan regime after all major objective have achieve. I meant would that be logical the US troop stays in Afghan for 50 years after the war is over just to help out the afghan government? The afghan government depending on the ISAF to fight their battle is their business, to the US or NATO Command, those are afghan job, not theirs.

As per report Afghanistan control half of the Afghanistan ... So Taliban were pushed back but they have regained and not been destroyed ...

If the objective of US was to destroy Afghanistan then yes they did ... If objective of US was to remove Taliban then they failed miserably as they are requesting Taliban's to come the table and Taliban's are the one that are refusing ...

 

[jhungary]

As per report Afghanistan control half of the Afghanistan ... So Taliban were pushed back but they have regained and not been destroyed ...

If the objective of US was to destroy Afghanistan then yes they did ... If objective of US was to remove Taliban then they failed miserably as they are requesting Taliban's to come the table and Taliban's are the one that are refusing ...

You failed to see my point.

In the US objective in Afghanistan is a finite one, as I said, unless US wanted to turn Afghanistan into her 51st States, at some point in time, US is going to leave Afghanistan.

Von Clausewitz - On War states that every war have a culminative point, a point which after said time, any kind of Military Operation is a waste and that is when you weight your present against your objective, against what more can I do to stay in that place? That point is long gone in Afghanistan. There are absolutely nothing NATO/US can do.

On the other hand, is it really defeating Taliban is the ultimate objective for the US or NATO? How can you defeat an ideology? Short of killing EVERY afghan in the world, people harbour that ideology would resurface wherever they are, you cannot defeat an ideology, at least not the US, to do that, you must be staying long enough to re-program the entire population, which would be decades of work if not generations. And in the end, US/NATO are not going to stay in Afghan forever, if you want to defeat the Taliban, you need afghan government for it, because Afghan is the people for Afghanistan, not American, or Britain, or French or any NATO member. And as I said, Afghan government reliance on NATO to fight their battle, then that is on them, not the NATO, I mean, what do you want US/NATO to do? Stay for another 10 to 20 years and try to maintain law and order that way? Unless afghan government step up, US and NATO will goes, and once they are gone, it's then up to the afghan government to work their own way, we cannot hold their hand forever.

 

[Kompromat]

US withdrawal is without pre conditions.

Its the US which is calling for negotiations.

That means no "objectives" have been met either.

Whole mantra of "democracy in Afghanistan" fell apart when the US bypassed the Govt in Afghanistan to talk directly to the Taliban.

Depends on what you mean by "Defeat" or "Winning"

In any war, there are always 2 objective goals

1.) Military Objective
2.) Political Objective.

In term of Military Objective, the US won almost all the engagement between US and Taliban. There are some lost but those are not affecting the overall military objective. And that is pushes Taliban out of Afghanistan.

In the 14 years US and ISAF troop were there, Taliban have 0 control in Afghanistan, their existence has been relegated from state government force, to insurgent.

On Political objective, US/NATO were never meant to stay in Afghanistan, unless US crave Afghanistan into 51st US States (Which is kind of odd to do so) and which mean the political objective for US is to first get rid of the Taliban Government, and second, establish a moderate government so whatever happened in 2001 will not happens again. The US/NATO have achieve that. Taliban is gone, Bin Laden is killed, what more do you want the US to do to stay in Afghanistan? The Cumulative point have already achieve the longer the US stays, the more liability it will become for the American. I mean what else were US/ISAF troop to do, there are no more objective.

The problem with Afghanistan now is the government of Afghanistan itself, they are the one that's in charge of Afghanistan, unless, again as I said, US wanted to annex Afghanistan into 51 US States, there are of no interest for the US to keep helping the afghan regime after all major objective have achieve. I meant would that be logical the US troop stays in Afghan for 50 years after the war is over just to help out the afghan government? The afghan government depending on the ISAF to fight their battle is their business, to the US or NATO Command, those are afghan job, not theirs.

 

[jhungary]

US withdrawal is without pre conditions.

Its the US which is calling for negotiations.

That means no "objectives" have been met either.

Whole mantra of "democracy in Afghanistan" fell apart when the US bypassed the Govt in Afghanistan to talk directly to the Taliban.

That wasn't the failure in US part tho? Was it?

If Afghan government is up to the standard, they are actually a force to be reckon with, the US will not need to negotiate with the Taliban. That's coming from the Kabul government being too relied on ISAF support to fight their war with Taliban.

There are just so many thing US can do, and there are only so much time a foreign force can stay in Afghanistan, unless you are trying to say US should stay in Afghan indefinitely to help the Afghan government out. Those are not their problem, those are afghan's own problem.

I mean, what more can the US do? Go after the Taliban year after year and rotate troop indefinitely to Afghanistan? Dude, we don't own them, nor wanted to colonize them, they have to fight their battle at some point, I mean 14 years is a long time, I don't think the US want to stay there for another 14 years to find out whether or not afghan government is up to the chop.

 

[Tokhme khar]

each time you tried to even briefly grow a pair Iran busted you boyz right in the booty.....if we find the slightest hint of you trying to grow a pair of nads, be certain we will snip them immediately.......and no mercy! You boyz are not allowed to have balls.

well said.



A : these claims by the iranians are unsupported with even the slighest bit of evidence.
B : we'd best made sure we take out the entire iranian military capability within say 2 weeks, *if* and when that becomes what we end up doing with Iran as NATO, like we did with Saddam's army, except yes, we may need more firepower or better firepower to deal with Iran than with Saddam's Iraq, so that Muslims are taught they can not increase what we need them to stop supporting (violence outside their borders caused by Iran) as a way to prove to the many other militant muslims around the world in nations other than Iran,
that our demands and threats to enforce those demands can be countered simply by increasing the intensity of what we need them to change.

 

[VCheng]

On the other hand, is it really defeating Taliban is the ultimate objective for the US or NATO? How can you defeat an ideology? Short of killing EVERY afghan in the world, people harbour that ideology would resurface wherever they are, you cannot defeat an ideology, at least not the US, to do that, you must be staying long enough to re-program the entire population, which would be decades of work if not generations. And in the end, US/NATO are not going to stay in Afghan forever, if you want to defeat the Taliban, you need afghan government for it, because Afghan is the people for Afghanistan, not American, or Britain, or French or any NATO member. And as I said, Afghan government reliance on NATO to fight their battle, then that is on them, not the NATO, I mean, what do you want US/NATO to do? Stay for another 10 to 20 years and try to maintain law and order that way? Unless afghan government step up, US and NATO will goes, and once they are gone, it's then up to the afghan government to work their own way, we cannot hold their hand forever.

USA does not need to defeat any ideology. The goal in Afghanistan is to ensure that that region cannot be used a a staging ground for any future attacks on the homeland, that is all. The rest Afghans can figure out among themselves.

 

[Tokhme khar]

@SubWater
@Ziggurat “TepeSialk“
@Bahram Esfandiari
@Hack-Hook

Their ISIS shock troops have also been ripped to shreds in the SyRaq. They won't admit it, but its a fact! The US/ NATO/ IDF/ Sawdi/ UAE military's are a laughable joke.

They can't fight!

Its been defeated and now its seeking to negotiate an uneventful exit with the Taliban.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Right now, everyone knows that if there is a US conflict against Iran, it will most likely be confined to the air and the sea. In these two arenas, Iran WILL lose.

its how usa like to keep it , but will Iran also want it to be limited to air and sea ?

 

[Tokhme khar]

fukk, we'd walk into Israel and evict these jokers. I'd like to see the US try to stop us!

its how usa like to keep it , but will Iran also want it to be limited to air and sea ?

 

[jhungary]

USA does not need to defeat any ideology. The goal in Afghanistan is to ensure that that region cannot be used a a staging ground for any future attacks on the homeland, that is all. The rest Afghans can figure out among themselves.

That is the point, Taliban is not an American problem, those are local problem. The American don't need to defeat the Taliban, nor would they be their objective, well, unless US is annexing Afghanistan as their 51st States...…..

 

[Hack-Hook]

USA does not need to defeat any ideology. The goal in Afghanistan is to ensure that that region cannot be used a a staging ground for any future attacks on the homeland, that is all. The rest Afghans can figure out among themselves.

I wonder when Afghanistan used as staging ground to attack USA mainland

if you mean 9/11 then at that time they Used USA as staging ground for attacking USA

 

[VCheng]

That is the point, Taliban is not an American problem, those are local problem. The American don't need to defeat the Taliban, nor would they be their objective, well, unless US is annexing Afghanistan as their 51st States...…..

I agree. The US goals are quite clear and largely already met, but the area will need some form of supervision for quite a while yet.